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Dintiradan

Secret Skills

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Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page is down at the moment, and with it the list of secret skills in BoA. I've reproduced the list, if anyone is interested.

 

Important note: skills are unlocked based on the number of times you've trained in the prerequisites, not on the current rank of the skill. You have to train in Dexterity six times in order to unlock Sharpshooter (among other prerequisites), regardless of whether you're a Level 1 human or a Level 100 nephil. In order to avoid confusion, I'm listing how much a new rank of that skill would cost. For example, after training six times in Dexterity, a new rank of Dexterity costs 7, so I'm listing "Dexterity 7" as one of the prerequisites of Sharpshooter.

 

Quick Strike: Dexterity 8, Melee/Poles 6

Parry: Dexterity 8, Defense 5

Blademaster: Strength 8, Melee 6, Poles 6

Anatomy: Intelligence 7, Melee/Poles 7

Gymnastics: Strength 8, Dexterity 9

Pathfinder: Intelligence 8, Nature 4

Magery: Intelligence 9, Mage/Priest 8

Resistance: Dexterity 9, Endurance 8, Hardiness 5

Magical Efficiency: Endurance 8, Magery 8

Lethal Blow: Blademaster 9, Anatomy 8

Riposte: Parry 7, Blademaster 8

Sharpshooter: Dexterity 7, Bows/Thrown 6

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Originally Posted By: Dintiradan
skills are unlocked based on the number of times you've trained in the prerequisites,
Does this mean the number of training sessions in which you increased that skill, or the number of points purchased in the skill?

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Hey everybody! Why does BoA not have the same amount of Mage and Priest spells just like BoE has? If BoA had all those spells, It'd be great fun to play BoA... And don't forget the poisons that was applied on the blades. confused

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BoA is based upon the Avernum 3 game engine so the spells are similar to that game instead of BoE which was based on Exile 3.

 

There were a lot of changes between Exile and Avernum and some things were dropped because players didn't like them.

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sylae   

Well let me grab that list that we totally have of that for you.

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Kelandon   

I'm trying to imagine how it's not screamingly obvious which players we're talking about. Spiderweb has beta testers who give feedback on every game. Spiderweb also has talkative fans (uh, look at these boards) who say things to the company about every game.

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Originally Posted By: Sylae
really when you get rid of all the BoE spells that are just stronger variations of each other, it's not that big of a difference

This is not actually true. I'm tired of hearing this assertion, so let's do this out.

For attack spells, I'm going to say that damage type is enough to differentiate spells beyond being a "stronger variation" and so is being ST/MT, but I will not differentiate between AoE size. (This hurts BoE, actually, since BoE has both arrow spells and AoE spells.) I will lump ST/MT together for status effects since the MT really is just an upgrade, but not for healing and damage, where the cheaper cost ST version is often quite useful or simply more effective. I also will lump priest and mage spells together.

Here is a list of all the spells in BoE split up into categories. I believe I have been fair about only creating new categories when there are serious differences between the spells; if learning a new spell makes an old one useless, I have lumped them together.

I have put BoA spells in parentheses and in red, afterwards.

Spark, Kill
Flame (Bolt of Fire)
Ice Bolt
Death Arrows, Divine Thud (Lightning Spray, Arcane Blow, Divine Retribution)
Fireball, Flame Arrows, Firestorm, Flamestrike (Fireblast, Divine Fire)
Smite (Ice Lances, Smite)
Mindduel
Shockwave
Turn Undead, Dispel Undead
Wound
Ravage Spirit (Repel Spirit)

Minor Heal, Heal, Major Heal, Revive (Healing)
Minor Heal All, Heal All, Revive All (Mass Healing, Divine Restoration)
Symbiosis
Raise Dead, Resurrect (Return Life)

Wall of Force, Shockstorm, Forcefield
Flame Cloud
Conflagration (not lumped as their tactical uses are quite different)
Wall of Ice
Wall of Blades (Cloud of Blades)
Stinking Cloud
Sleep Cloud
Goo, Web, Stumble
Antimagic Cloud
Spray Fields, Protective Circle
Dispel Field, Dispel Fields
Summon Beast, Weak Summoning, Summoning, Major Summoning (Call Beast, Create Illusions, Summon Aid, Arcane Summon)
Daemon, Summon Spirit, Sticks to Snakes, Summon Host, Summon Guardian (Summon Shade, Divine Host)
Capture Soul (Capture Mind)
Simulacrum (Simulacrum)

Minor Poison, Poison, Major Poison
Venom Arrows
Weaken Poison, Cure Poison, Cure All Poison (Curing, Mass Curing)
(Spray Acid)
Minor Haste, Haste, Major Haste (Haste)
Slow, Slow Group (Slow)
Strength, Minor Bless, Bless, Bless Party (War Blessing)
Curse, Holy Scourge, Curse All
Scare, Fear, Group Fear (Terror)
Dumbfound
Restore Mind (Unshackle Mind)
Envenom
Resist Magic, Protection
Paralyze, Mass Paralysis
Cure Paralysis
Major Blessing
Sanctuary, Mass Sanctuary
Charm Foe, Mass Charm (Control Foes)
Disease
Pestilence (not lumped as has a very different use)
Cure Disease, Cleanse, Major Cleansing
Awaken, Hyperactivity
Martyr's Shield
Destone
Avatar
(Forcecage)
(Enduring Barrier)
(Arcane Shield)
(Radiant Shield)

Light, Long Light, Light (Light)
Identify
Scry Monster
True Sight, Magic Map (Far Sight)
Unlock (Unlock Doors)
Stealth
Dispel Barrier (Dispel Barrier)
Fire Barrier
Force Barrier (not lumped as has different uses)
Flight
Quickfire
Location
Minor Manna, Manna
Ritual of Sanctification
Move Mountains, Shatter (Move Mountains)
Detect Life
Remove Curse
Firewalk
Word of Recall

BoE: 73 categories, 124 spells.
BoA: 30 categories, 40 spells.

So while it's true that BoE has many more "upgrade" spells than BoA does -- largely because the higher levelled spells were like upgrades in A1-3 -- BoE has more than twice as many distinctly different sorts of things you can do with magic.

Edit: If you look, BoE has several major categories that are missing from BoA: most magic barriers, most status effects positive and negative, plus a lot of non-combat spells. The last category can probably be ignored. However, BoE still has more variety even when it comes to direct damage, healing, and summoning spells, even if the difference is less noticeable.

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Kelandon   

One reason for the special spells system in Exodus was that I noticed the sheer number of damage types, statuses, and other magical effects (notably fields) that spells can't render in BoA. Nearly all of them could be rendered in BoE's spells.

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Yes, the number of spell in BoA is lesser than the spells in BoE.

 

And also you could poison your own weapon in BoE.

 

And to remind you that there is no cluster spells like Fireball, Firestorm etc. Cluster spells are those spells which when you select an only area, it affects a number of areas adjacent to the targeted area, causing multiple damage.

 

Also, see the ursagi in Exile, they are 2 squares big, if you target both the squares of its body with Poison spell, it would be double-poisoned.

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One of the things I liked about the Exile spell system was the way you targeted Area of Effect spells, such as wall of blades. You could target any space that was within range of the spell caster. In Avernum, you lose the ability to lay minefields like that. You gain multiple, independently targeted spells, such as lightning spray. I prefer the AE spells of Exile, especially wall of blades, covered by an null magic field.

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Yeah, the expanded number of spell types (not the sheer number of spells, just the types) is pretty much the only feature of BoE I prefer over the BoA implementation.

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Cloud of Blades requires a visible target to center on, so it is only effective against guardians and black shades if there are visible monsters in adjacent spaces.

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That is exactly my point. In BoE you could target any space. In BoA, you can only target a space where you can see the monster. (Actually, I think you may be able to target monsters you can't see, but how do you find out where they are?)

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To target monsters you can't see:

Step 1 - summon your own monster

Step 2 - send it in the general direction of the suspected monster

Step 3 - cast Cloud of Blades on your summoned monster

Step 4 - look to see if anything else is getting damaged

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Kelandon   

If you don't mind being marked as a criminal.

 

Which in most dungeons you probably don't, really.

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Dikiyoba   

It's the only reason to be glad that black shades like to summon things weak monsters as often as they can.

 

Dikiyoba.

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Well, Green Fyora, you're right. But if we change their mage spell levels?

 

 

EDIT: Hehe, If you see I changed the whole way the topic was being discussed with only ONE changing thread

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Ephesos   
Originally Posted By: Speed-O-Fie Hyper v2.1
Well, Green Fyora, you're right. But if we change their mage spell levels?


Eh, I messed with this a bit when I was working on Siege of Copperpeak. It's no good to just change the Mage Spells level, because then you remove more spells than you probably wanted to. I'd recommend a custom script that removes their access to all summoning in the INIT_STATE (if making the fights harder is in fact your goal).

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sylae   

General area. That is, if you know the guardian is somewhere to the north, send it north. It's purpose is to act as a target for your spell, and the AoE is what will get the monster.

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nikki.   

I think what Speed-O-Fie is saying is that he can't get his summons to the general area of the invisible monster.

 

Well, SOF, that's because it's impossible to control where summoned monsters go (unless you want to start messing about wit creature scripts). I mean, they'll go in whatever direction visible monsters are, sure, but that doesn't help you target invisible monsters any more than just targeting the visible ones when it comes to Cloud of Blades. I've no idea why nobody else picked up on this. frown

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Regarding Randomizer on post no. 19. How will you 'Send' summoned creatures to the direction. That's not WoW or any other strategy game

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