Troy Davis

[nikki.]

Originally Posted By: Harehunter

Avoid the ones you can, prepare as best for the ones you can't.

It's easier to avoid them when poison isn't being sent spewing into the air I breathe by smokers.

I mean, that's probably harsh, but your point (as nice as it was), isn't going to make anybody drop the issue of smoking so that they can take the kids to the park. Sorry.

[Harehunter]

It was not intended to. It is just how I roll. And why.

[Sullust]

Originally Posted By: Alorophiliael

See, if you don't die of smoking, you live longer and die of something else that's expensive. Getting people to quit smoking saves money in the short term but not in the long run.

Not only that, but you lose all that tax revenue. The solution of course is just to can old people and feed them to the homeless.

[Harehunter]

Originally Posted By: Lt. Sullust

not only that, but you lose all that tax revenue. It's such a burden...

Such base pragmatism.

[Alorael at Large]

Originally Posted By: Harehunter

Last year my supervisor and friend died of a heart attack. He had never smoked, drank only in moderation, but had been clinically obese for most of his life. When he was diagnosed with type II diabetes, he changed his life style radically. He changed his diet, his exercise, and lost about 100lbs. He was joking about about having to replace his entire wardrobe, but he looked great. One day after going shopping with his wife, he laid down and had a massive stroke. He died a few days later.

Long story short: There are many risks in life, but it is not worth worrying about them. Avoid the ones you can, prepare as best for the ones you can't. Most importantly, live each day as if it might be your last. Let the people you love know it on a daily basis. You never know when the good Lord will call you away.

As a message, there's a slight failure with that. He was obese and had type 2 diabetes. The fact that he lost weight didn't fix the damage done. The moral I draw: there are risks in life, and you can't manage all of them, so you should manage the ones you can.

Oh, and live every day as if it were your last? I don't know about you, but I can't spend every day worrying about handing off responsibilities. I could splurge for that fancy dinner I've wanted but not wanted to pay for, but I'd rather save the money for the future that I really do have. This is common wisdom that's actually terrible.

—Alorael, who considers smoking one of the easiest risks to manage. Yes, quitting is hard, but so is starting. Smoking is a choice, and it's a terrible one.

[Dantius]

Originally Posted By: Lt. Sullust

Not only that, but you lose all that tax revenue. The solution of course is just to can old people and feed them to the homeless.

Of course, you could always just process them into cigarettes.


...


Marlboro Gold is people!

[keira]

I love the smell of soylent green in the morning.

[Doctor Albert Halfmann]

Originally Posted By: Tyranicus

Cigarettes do cause fires, but not as many as you might think. A cigarette doesn't really burn so much as smolder, and it doesn't get all that hot.

True. Here in Georgia, I hear frequent 'Smokey The Bear' radio ads. They seem to focus on the incineration of yard waste and the the like. Folks ought to adopt the simple practice of stamping out their cigs after dropping them, though.

[Trenton.]

Damn cigarettes, they kill, and burn, and taste bad. I have to expierience it for both my parents smoke. I keep asking them to stop, and tell them of the dangers it causes, and they keep saying they'll stop but do they ever do?

[Callie]

That goes to show how addictive nicotine is. A lot of people can't simply quit cold turkey.

[Dantius]

Originally Posted By: Excalibur

That goes to show how addictive nicotine is. A lot of people can't simply quit cold turkey.

Yeah, pretty much the only socially acceptable physiological addiction here is caffeine, which I happen to be addicted to.

It's so prevalent most people don't even realize it's a drug- but it's the most popular one in the world.

[Doctor Albert Halfmann]

A chart of the addictiveness of various substances, according to the compiled opinions of several 'experts.'

 

"To rank today's commonly used drugs by their addictiveness, we asked experts to consider two questions: How easy is it to get hooked on these substances and how hard is it to stop using them? Although a person's vulnerability to drug also depends on individual traits -- physiology, psychology, and social and economic pressures -- these rankings reflect only the addictive potential inherent in the drug. The numbers below are relative rankings, based on the experts' scores for each substance:"

 

Nicotine 100

Ice, Glass (Methamphetamine smoked) 99

Crack 98

Crystal Meth (Methamphetamine injected) 93

Valium (Diazepam) 85

Quaalude (Methaqualone) 83

Seconal (Secobarbital) 82

Alcohol 81

Heroin 80

Crank (Amphetamine taken nasally) 78

Cocaine 72

Caffeine 68

PCP (Phencyclidine) 57

Marijuana 21

Ecstasy (MDMA) 20

Psilocybin Mushrooms 18

LSD 18

Mescaline 18

 

Source: Erowid Addiction Vaults

[Tyranicus]

Originally Posted By: Stugri-La

Folks ought to adopt the simple practice of stamping out their cigs after dropping them, though.

No. They should NOT be dropping them at all. I don't mind if people smoke, and I am not ashamed to admit that I indulge in the occasional cigarette, usually if I'm drinking with friends. However, I cannot stand the people who just leave their butts all over the place. It is disgusting, harmful to the environment, and completely illegal.

[Doctor Albert Halfmann]

Originally Posted By: Tyranicus

Originally Posted By: Stugri-La

Folks ought to adopt the simple practice of stamping out their cigs after dropping them, though.

No. They should NOT be dropping them at all. I don't mind if people smoke, and I am not ashamed to admit that I indulge in the occasional cigarette,usually if I'm drinking with friends. (I last smoked one 3 months ago.) However, I cannot stand the people who just leave their butts all over the place. It as disgusting, harmful to the environment, and completely illegal.

I meant if they are smoking in wooded areas, where there are no ashtrays available. I fully agree that smokers should otherwise dispose of them properly. Perhaps those smoking in wooded areas should bring some portable waste container along as well.

I have occasionally smoked a cigarette or two as well. It has never been any more than a social activity for me. To be honest, I think of nicotine as being quite an inferior sort of drug.

[Slawbug]

Oh, I get it -- it's only okay to drop your butts on the ground in a wooded area!

 

...

 

?_?_?_?_?

[Doctor Albert Halfmann]

Originally Posted By: HOUSE of S

Oh, I get it -- it's only okay to drop your butts on the ground in a wooded area!

...

?_?_?_?_?

All right, I take it back. It just seems rather more difficult to deal with 'em when there aren't any ashtrays or other receptacles nearby. Note that I mentioned that smokers exploring wooded areas should probably carry along some manner of portable vessel for the purpose.

Originally Posted By: Dantius

Yeah, pretty much the only socially acceptable physiological addiction here is caffeine, which I happen to be addicted to.

It's so prevalent most people don't even realize it's a drug- but it's the most popular one in the world.

It is most certainly a potent drug. I so rarely drink caffeinated beverages that when I do, I find the effects are quite palpable. This high sensitivity has come in handy when I've needed to do some late-night studying; no need for anything stronger for me than a cup of black tea.

These days, I can barely drink the stuff at all- it makes me far too mentally and physically restless and seems to amplify anxiety as well.

[ĐªгŦĦ Єяŋϊε]

Quote "never say smoking doesn't kill because my grandfather got killed by smoking. he was crossing the street and got run over by a cigarette truck"

[Callie]

I worked for the city over the summer. For the first month part of my job was to clean up the city parks in the morning. I had to pick up all of the trash, empty trash cans as needed, check the bathrooms and restock toilet paper, in addition to spraying some air freshener. I spent half my time at the parks picking up cigarette butts. It's not like most other trash which sits on top of the grass (ie. plastic). If they get soggy (from sprinklers) they fall apart and look like globs of mucous.

 

In other words, I really, really, really don't appreciate it when people throw cigarette butts on the ground.

[keira]

What's really disgusting to me is those hooligans who are too cheap/dumb to get new cigarettes, and they collect and smoke the butts. I mean, come on, really? That's [censored] nasty.

[Goldengirl]

Originally Posted By: gangster w/umbrella: Fo' Drizzle

What's really disgusting to me is those hooligans who are too cheap/dumb to get new cigarettes, and they collect and smoke the butts. I mean, come on, really? That's [censored] nasty.

...And any other form of smoking isn't nasty at all?

While hooligans are foolish, sometimes people of legal age have been forced into that situation as well by sheer fact of economic hard times. Combine that with the fact, as already discussed, that lower income people smoke more, and the potential for a sad trend develops.

[Harehunter]

Originally Posted By: Drop swords and raise a glass

Originally Posted By: Harehunter

Long story short: There are many risks in life, but it is not worth worrying about them. Avoid the ones you can, prepare as best for the ones you can't. Most importantly, live each day as if it might be your last. Let the people you love know it on a daily basis. You never know when the good Lord will call you away.

As a message, there's a slight failure with that. He was obese and had type 2 diabetes. The fact that he lost weight didn't fix the damage done. The moral I draw: there are risks in life, and you can't manage all of them, so you should manage the ones you can.

The point being that there are other risks besides smoking. Like I said, avoid the risks you can and prepare for those you can't.

Originally Posted By: Drop swords and raise a glass

Oh, and live every day as if it were your last? I don't know about you, but I can't spend every day worrying about handing off responsibilities. I could splurge for that fancy dinner I've wanted but not wanted to pay for, but I'd rather save the money for the future that I really do have. This is common wisdom that's actually terrible.

Re-read the first sentence of the moral. I don't mean to live each as though you expecting to die tomorrow; live it so that you will have no remaining hurts, and make it a point to let those close to you know your affection for them. The point I am trying to make here is this; don't let the sun set upon you with conflict in your family. All too often, people will part just after quarreling, and one of them dies. The survivor then has the added grief of remembering how they had parted. In addition to that, try to enjoy life each day, and share that joy of life as much as possible.

Originally Posted By: Drop swords and raise a glass

—Alorael, who considers smoking one of the easiest risks to manage. Yes, quitting is hard, but so is starting. Smoking is a choice, and it's a terrible one.

I don't this could be said better. It bears repeating.

[Harehunter]

Originally Posted By: Trenton the dragon lord

Damn cigarettes, they kill, and burn, and taste bad. I have to expierience it for both my parents smoke. I keep asking them to stop, and tell them of the dangers it causes, and they keep saying they'll stop but do they ever do?

I know your experience. I grew up that way too. I suppose that is the main reason I never started. You'll do very by deciding early on to not start. It encourages me that there are young people like you who can make the smart decision to not smoke.

[Harehunter]

Originally Posted By: Excalibur

I worked for the city over the summer. For the first month part of my job was to clean up the city parks in the morning. I had to pick up all of the trash, empty trash cans as needed, check the bathrooms and restock toilet paper, in addition to spraying some air freshener. I spent half my time at the parks picking up cigarette butts. It's not like most other trash which sits on top of the grass (ie. plastic). If they get soggy (from sprinklers) they fall apart and look like globs of mucous.

In other words, I really, really, really don't appreciate it when people throw cigarette butts on the ground.

I well recall my time in the service, when preparing to leave a bivouac area, we all had to 'police the area', picking all the trash, including cigarette butts. You're right; it's pretty disgusting.

We even had signs in the bathroom "No butts in Urinals". Now that paints a pretty picture, doesn't it?

[Aran]

Quote:

"No butts in Urinals"

... yeah, I hope that referred to cigarettes.

[Harehunter]

It did. There is nothing more gross than picking cigarette butts out of urinals.

[Callie]

Actually, when I worked over the summer I did clean grosser things out of urinals...certain bodily fluids.

[Lilith]

Originally Posted By: Harehunter

I have said it before, you can't regulate stupid behavior.

oh, sure you can. in 1969, one thousand and thirty-four motorists died on the roads in Victoria, Australia: a campaign of strict enforcement of speed limits, seatbelt and drink-driving laws reduced that number dramatically over the next few years. we now have only about 300 road deaths in the state per year despite having twice the population we did back then.

[Slawbug]

HAREHUNTER

Yet here, Laertes? Aboard, aboard, for shame!

The wind sits in the shoulder of your sail,

And you are stay'd for. There- my blessing with thee!

And these few precepts in thy memory

Look thou character. Give thy thoughts no tongue,

Nor any unproportion'd thought his act.

Be thou familiar, but by no means vulgar:

Those friends thou hast, and their adoption tried,

Grapple them unto thy soul with hoops of steel;

But do not dull thy palm with entertainment

Of each new-hatch'd, unfledg'd comrade. Beware

Of entrance to a quarrel; but being in,

Bear't that th' opposed may beware of thee.

Give every man thine ear, but few thy voice;

Take each man's censure, but reserve thy judgment.

Costly thy habit as thy purse can buy,

But not express'd in fancy; rich, not gaudy;

For the apparel oft proclaims the man,

And they in France of the best rank and station

Are most select and generous, chief in that.

Neither a borrower nor a lender be;

For loan oft loses both itself and friend,

And borrowing dulls the edge of husbandry.

This above all- to thine own self be true,

And it must follow, as the night the day,

Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Farewell. My blessing season this in thee!

[Harehunter]

Slarty, I am truly touched. I appreciate that very much. You have me speechless.

[nikki.]

Originally Posted By: Harehunter

Slarty, I am truly touched. I appreciate that very much. You have me speechless.

You may want to re-read what that 'tedious old fool' spake.

Edit:

Basically:

Click to reveal..

The piece, from Shakespeare's Hamlet, basically entreats you to keep your thoughts to yourself, or if you must share them, also listen to and respect the thoughts of others. It begs of you not to act rashly and to avoid fighting but to do so with respect and honour if you must. There is an urge to be a good listener and importantly, to accept criticism. At the same time, try not to be judgemental and try to act politely, professionally, and respectfully.

There is also the catch that you must always be true to yourself, too, of course, but more than praise, it is a father's advice to his son.

[Dantius]

Originally Posted By: HOUSE of S

[snip]

Meh, Ian McKellen's Richard III monologue was better than that.

[Slawbug]

*facepalm facepalm facepalm facepalm facepalm*

 

Is this truly what we've come to here? A celebration of pun-floods, while pointed analogies are interpreted on their heads?

 

1) I was comparing Harehunter to Polonius, not addressing Polonius's words to Harehunter.

 

2) I'm not sure where you got that 'easy'-reading summary from, Nikki, but it misses the point pretty atrociously.

[Kelandon]

To be fair, the intention of that post was not terribly clear. Nor is the meaning in the context of the play totally unambiguous. I seem to recall that most people take Polonius as being somewhat pompous and preachy there, but there are other possible readings, even in context.

 

The above list of various drugs with various addictive levels reminds me how arbitrary and bizarre the federal drug schedules are. The fact that something is a Schedule I controlled substance vs. any other schedule controlled substance usually is less than meaningless, medically. If there were ever a hypocritical, logically inconsistent system in need of reform, that's one.

 

For example, morphine and fentanyl are Schedule II, but heroin is Schedule I. Huh? How does that make sense? (All three are very similar opiates, but in terms of potency at equal dosages, morphine < heroin < fentanyl.) This is far from the worst inconsistency, but virtually every categorization in the schedules is questionable in relation to something else.

[Doctor Albert Halfmann]

Originally Posted By: Kelandon

The above list of various drugs with various addictive levels reminds me how arbitrary and bizarre the federal drug schedules are. The fact that something is a Schedule I controlled substance vs. any other schedule controlled substance usually is less than meaningless, medically. If there were ever a hypocritical, logically inconsistent system in need of reform, that's one.

For example, morphine and fentanyl are Schedule II, but heroin is Schedule I. Huh? How does that make sense? (All three are very similar opiates, but in terms of potency at equal dosages, morphine < heroin < fentanyl.) This is far from the worst inconsistency, but virtually every categorization in the schedules is questionable in relation to something else.

Quite right, Kel. Of course heroin is every bit as effective an analgesic as the other two, but for whatever reason the establishment has allowed the legitimate use of the far more potent fentanyl.

My sister is an anesthesiologist. Some time back she informed me, to my great surprise, that she had access to cocaine due to its utility as a local anesthetic. It would seem that with the existence of synthetic chemicals that are capable of serving the same purpose (e.g. procaine, lidocaine, etc.), cocaine would belong on Schedule 1 with its fellow popular drug of abuse. Odd, that.

As you say, many Schedule II substances have just as much potential for abuse as their counterparts on Schedule I. For example, buprenorphine is intended as a withdrawal aid for heroin addicts, and at the prescribed, low dose it serves to keep cravings at bay for a prolonged period (~18 hours or more). However, when taken at much higher doses it can supposedly produce a euphoria matching that of heroin, and with a longevity that far outstrips it.

Of course, I feel that there ought not to be any scheduling at all, but this is America, where we children must be protected from ourselves.

[Lilith]

Originally Posted By: Stugri-La

My sister is an anesthesiologist. Some time back she informed me, to my great surprise, that she had access to cocaine due to its utility as a local anesthetic. It would seem that with the existence of synthetic chemicals that are capable of serving the same purpose (e.g. procaine, lidocaine, etc.), cocaine would belong on Schedule 1 with its fellow popular drug of abuse. Odd, that.

it has a much more powerful vasoconstrictive effect than its derivatives, which makes it useful in certain niche applications where minimising bleeding is important, particularly nasal surgery. many doctors have switched over to alternatives that don't need to be kept under armed guard though

[Dintiradan]

Wait.

 

Cocaine is used to stop nosebleeds?

[Doctor Albert Halfmann]

Originally Posted By: Lilith

Originally Posted By: Stugri-La

My sister is an anesthesiologist. Some time back she informed me, to my great surprise, that she had access to cocaine due to its utility as a local anesthetic. It would seem that with the existence of synthetic chemicals that are capable of serving the same purpose (e.g. procaine, lidocaine, etc.), cocaine would belong on Schedule 1 with its fellow popular drug of abuse. Odd, that.

it has a much more powerful vasoconstrictive effect than its derivatives, which makes it useful in certain niche applications where minimising bleeding is important, particularly nasal surgery. many doctors have switched over to alternatives that don't need to be kept under armed guard though

Ah, good to know. Figures that it would have some quality the others can't match. I'm not sure if my sister was aware of that distinction. She did, however, go into some depth on the security measures in place at the hospital where cocaine and several other potential drugs of abuse were concerned.

I found it interesting that ketamine (AKA 'Special K') was left off that list. In times past it's been quite a popular drug of abuse. I suppose the researchers figured that one NMDA receptor antagonist (PCP) was sufficient. However, while both PCP and ketamine are powerful dissociative drugs, their effects spectra are not identical. I suppose their addiction potential might be similar, though. I figure ketamine belongs in the 50-60 range, and PCP is listed at 57.

[Doctor Albert Halfmann]

Originally Posted By: Dintiradan

Wait.

Cocaine is used to stop nosebleeds?

If a judicious dose were applied at the source of bleeding, I doubt that any damage to nasal tissues would occur.

[Student of Trinity]

Cocaine was first popularized as a local anaesthetic. Sigmund Freud worked on it for a while — he was trying to become a rich surgeon so as to marry this rich girl. Cocaine didn't bring in the big bucks, and neither did a scheme to keep a lung surgery patient's lungs from collapsing, by operating in a low-pressure chamber. (The alternative procedure of just putting a high-pressure mask over the patient's face was a whole lot simpler.) Then he tried this dream interpretation thing.

 

Such at least is my fading and possibly garbled memory of a history of surgery that I read about thirty years ago. If the details matter to you, a little googling might be in order before you bet the term paper on the accuracy of my account.

[Aran]

Originally Posted By: Dantius

Originally Posted By: Excalibur

That goes to show how addictive nicotine is. A lot of people can't simply quit cold turkey.

Yeah, pretty much the only socially acceptable physiological addiction here is caffeine, which I happen to be addicted to.

It's so prevalent most people don't even realize it's a drug- but it's the most popular one in the world.

I've had high, daily quantities of coffee for months at a time, and then just stopping. All that happened was that I felt drowsy for a day or two while catching up on my sleep. I don't think that's what withdrawal feels like.

Edit: Regular use certainly builds up a tolerance, so a larger dose is required for the same effect, but tolerance is not the same as dependence.

[Harehunter]

Basically:

Originally Posted By: Basically

Originally Posted By: Harehunter

Slarty, I am truly touched. I appreciate that very much. You have me speechless.

 

You may want to re-read what that 'tedious old fool' spake.

 

 

Click to reveal..

The piece, from Shakespeare's Hamlet, basically entreats you to keep your thoughts to yourself, or if you must share them, also listen to and respect the thoughts of others. It begs of you not to act rashly and to avoid fighting but to do so with respect and honour if you must. There is an urge to be a good listener and importantly, to accept criticism. At the same time, try not to be judgemental and try to act politely, professionally, and respectfully.

 

There is also the catch that you must always be true to yourself, too, of course, but more than praise, it is a father's advice to his son.

I don't disagree with the text of that quotation. With this quotation, Slarty simply and elegantly described my own feelings about life, words that I have been having trouble to find. I think we would all do well to take them to heart.

[Harehunter]

Originally Posted By: PSPACE

I've had high, daily quantities of coffee for months at a time, and then just stopping. All that happened was that I felt drowsy for a day or two while catching up on my sleep. I don't think that's what withdrawal feels like.

Edit: Regular use certainly builds up a tolerance, so a larger dose is required for the same effect, but tolerance is not the same as dependence.

The worst effect of caffeine withdrawal is a headache that just won't go away regardless of what pain medication you use. In fact, the only way to get rid of it is two aspirin, and a cup of coffee.

[Kelandon]

Originally Posted By: PSPACE

I've had high, daily quantities of coffee for months at a time, and then just stopping. All that happened was that I felt drowsy for a day or two while catching up on my sleep. I don't think that's what withdrawal feels like.

Edit: Regular use certainly builds up a tolerance, so a larger dose is required for the same effect, but tolerance is not the same as dependence.

As Harehunter implies, you were fortunate not to have debilitating headaches and more severe drowsiness. Most people who have heavy caffeine dependence and quit cold turkey at least have one of the two, and many have both.

Now, how to interpret that is another issue.

[Dintiradan]

Originally Posted By: Harehunter

Originally Posted By: Arancaytar

I've had high, daily quantities of coffee for months at a time, and then just stopping. All that happened was that I felt drowsy for a day or two while catching up on my sleep. I don't think that's what withdrawal feels like.

Edit: Regular use certainly builds up a tolerance, so a larger dose is required for the same effect, but tolerance is not the same as dependence.

The worst effect of caffeine withdrawal is a headache that just won't go away regardless of what pain medication you use. In fact, the only way to get rid of it is two aspirin, and a cup of coffee.

Heh. So why is it hair of the dog when it's booze, but just your morning cup of joe when it's coffee?

[Harehunter]

Originally Posted By: Dintiradan

Heh. So why is it hair of the dog when it's booze, but just your morning cup of joe when it's coffee?

Some people like their coffee so strong it'll sit up and bark!