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A:EftP - New Races Ever?


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Originally Posted By: *i

Aside from the attention grabbing headline, all your above link says is that the discovery implies new laws are needed. The fundamental notion of science is that are rules that allow us to predict the behavior of observable phenomena. These need not even be deterministic, and only need to assign measurable likelihoods (probabilities) of events occurring given a set of circumstances.


The "Laws of Physics" are simply a scientific model we use to predict physical behavior. By proving quarks can break parity, we've broken the Laws of Physics and they will have to be rewritten slightly. We are not omnipotent beings, we don't know the true objective nature of reality.
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Originally Posted By: Jukai

The "Laws of Physics" are simply a scientific model we use to predict physical behavior. By proving quarks can break parity, we've broken the Laws of Physics and they will have to be rewritten slightly. We are not omnipotent beings, we don't know the true objective nature of reality.


We're talking across each other here. What *i and I are saying is that "the laws of physics" are defined as whatever laws describe "the true objective nature of reality". What you're calling "the laws of physics" in this conversation, and what are casually referred to as the laws of physics, are actually just our current approximations of the laws of physics. But when physicists observe something inconsistent with those approximations, they don't say that the laws of physics were broken: they say the laws of physics are different from what we thought they were.
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Originally Posted By: FnordCola
I hate it when cartographers dematerialize mountain ranges in my area.

Sorry about that, it's just what we do. Sometimes the pesky things pop up where they shouldn't so we need to move them.
(((BIG DUMP TRUCK!!!)))
Just remember to let dozing bulls lie.
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If you got to play ogres or giants then maybe they'd get to dual wield halberds!

 

As for aliens, maybe somebody could write a blades of Avernum scenario where aliens attack the empire and suddenly the underworld gets flooded with refugees from the surface looking for someplace safe to hide.

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Originally Posted By: Trenton Uchiha, rebel servile.
LIGHT YEARS ahead in technology

A light year is a measure of distance, not time, and certainly not technological advancement.

Perhaps we should make a unit for technological advancement. Or is that what the <material> ages are all about?

Originally Posted By: Jukai
Originally Posted By: Trenton Uchiha, rebel servile.
Karoka, the laws of physics can not be broken.

Not exactly true.

Yeah, I'm pretty much here with Lilith and Stareye. If, under certain circumstances, previously conceived notions of how the universe change, those exceptions become part of our established "laws" of physics.

And saying that the laws of physics may not work say, regarding singularities in black holes - would it not be more fitting to say that the laws of physics contain a set of laws specifically for those conditions. Laws that differ under specific circumstances.


EDIT: sorry if I'm beating a dead horse, I didn't see page 3.
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Quote:
And saying that the laws of physics may not work say, regarding singularities in black holes - would it not be more fitting to say that the laws of physics contain a set of laws specifically for those conditions. Laws that differ under specific circumstances.


Yes. We assume that there are laws that describe that regime, even though we don't know what they are. I'm stating philosophically that it is possible that there are no set of laws that govern that regime, and use it as an example, not as any assertion.

I think there are laws there that we do not yet understand, and my only basis is that everything else that we've found has them. Nonetheless, I have no evidence with regards to that claim. Further, there is no way to test the assertion there are no laws for the same reasons that you have trouble proving a negative.

*** EDIT ***

To clarify what I mean by no laws, it means that the outcome of a particular measurement of a system is entirely unpredictable, not even in the sense of probability.

There is, in fact, a theoretical way to test this, but not possible in practice. If you and I both do an infinite number of identical measurements on a system, and we get different distribution of results, I assert that there is no law of any predictive power we can make on that system. Now, this is impossible in practice because we would have to do infinity measurements (not merely a lot) to be sure we have completely probed all possible events. Those measurements must also be identical, which is also impossible for one because of the simple reason that you and I are different and would inevitably have a different impact on the very system we are measuring.
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Originally Posted By: Harehunter
Originally Posted By: FnordCola
I hate it when cartographers dematerialize mountain ranges in my area.

Sorry about that, it's just what we do. Sometimes the pesky things pop up where they shouldn't so we need to move them.
(((BIG DUMP TRUCK!!!)))
Just remember to let dozing bulls lie.


this actually happened in germany when GPS found that one of their mountains was a few meters off of measurements. their solution: raise the level of the mountain by dumping a few truckloads of rock on top to conform with their maps
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Originally Posted By: Trenton Uchiha, rebel servile.
Yes but not every mountain in germany has a flat top...


There's a little (read: huge) range of topographical descriptors between "so pointy nothing can stay on top without building all the way up from the bottom" and "flat as Nebraska."
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Obviously Trenton didn't check with HQ via his wristwatch radio, otherwise he'd know who Dick Tracy was.

 

On a related note, how come we don't have two way video watches yet? The technology to create the exists, I'm staring at it right now in the form of my smartphone, and I'm sure there's a market for it, even if it is a very limited one of Dick Tracy enthusiasts with a couple hundred dollars to burn...

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Originally Posted By: Dantius
Obviously Trenton didn't check with HQ via his wristwatch radio, otherwise he'd know who Dick Tracy was.

On a related note, how come we don't have two way video watches yet? The technology to create the exists, I'm staring at it right now in the form of my smartphone, and I'm sure there's a market for it, even if it is a very limited one of Dick Tracy enthusiasts with a couple hundred dollars to burn...


Just use rubber bands to put your smartphone on your wrist. Sorted.

Also, Necris Omega: yeah they exist. The iPhone is one, for starters, and as of the iPhone 4, it has built-in features capable of handling a video call. I would assume any other smartphone capable of running a Skype (or similar) app would be able to make or take videocalls too.
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  • 2 weeks later...

Randomly semi-tangentially kinda-sorta not really on topic – and might I also say that it is very amusing to click onto the latest page of a thread about potential new races.. and find a discussion about batteries.. a discussion that I'm not certain I /want/ to become more enlightened upon, mind – I wouldn't mind seeing the Nephil and Slith lose their xp penalty. Sure, keep the bonuses, but give the humans something neat, too. Like, mayhaps they get bonuses to Defense instead of Pole or Bow weapons.. or to Luck or Arcane Lore.

 

Far too late to institute /now/, of course, but just a thought. It seems like the xp penalty gets to be rather steep when factored in across the whole of a character's lifetime, when all I want is some cool lizardfolk and cat-people in my party.

 

Then again, I much prefer D&D 3.5's Level Adjustment system to the little I've seen of 4E's Monster Class system, so maybe I don't know what I want. laugh

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Originally Posted By: RogueGypsy47
Far too late to institute /now/, of course, but just a thought. It seems like the xp penalty gets to be rather steep when factored in across the whole of a character's lifetime, when all I want is some cool lizardfolk and cat-people in my party.


The XP penalty is actually much, much less of a big deal than it looks like, since experience gains are scaled to your level -- so as soon as you fall a level behind, you'll immediately start gaining more experience to catch you up. The bonuses that non-humans get more than make up for being a level or two behind, especially in the second trilogy.
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What Lilith said. I can't recall very well what nephil and sliths were like in A2/3/Blades, but they were good in the original exile games, and even more so in A4-6. In general, I found every 10% bonus/penalty to experience meant about 2 levels difference or a little less by the end of the game (maybe a bit more in A6, since it's so long). That means you lose ~10 skill points, and 10-15 health and energy. The number of points you get in skills are worth more like 30-50 skill points by the end of the game, plus sliths get extra health and fire resistance.

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Ah, well then.. o.o See, this is why I come and say things here: because you people are so much more geeky than I and have calculated out such differences. laugh

 

Although, that seems to say even more that the xp penalty needs to be done away with in favor of humans getting some bonuses. I mean, if it's not having a substantial effect throughout the game in return for the boosts it gives. o.o

 

Maybe I'm just one of those types who wants humans to be good at their own thing and not just the baseline that everybody else is better than. tongue

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Originally Posted By: FnordCola

I'm intrigued by the new trait system, but I'm not sure how character races will fit in with that once A2-2 comes around.


What would be cool is if there was a large pool of traits available to every race, but each race also had special traits that only they could get.
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Originally Posted By: RogueGypsy47
Ah, well then.. o.o See, this is why I come and say things here: because you people are so much more geeky than I and have calculated out such differences. laugh

 

Although, that seems to say even more that the xp penalty needs to be done away with in favor of humans getting some bonuses. I mean, if it's not having a substantial effect throughout the game in return for the boosts it gives. o.o

 

Maybe I'm just one of those types who wants humans to be good at their own thing and not just the baseline that everybody else is better than. tongue

 

 

Well, if you think about how d and d did their mastery of generalized classes (3.0), jeff already probably has something thought of about making humans more viable. In d and d, humans got an extra feat at lvl 1, Jeff might be able to give humans the ability to choose from a few underdog feats that allow them to learn things to bump it more to their favor, making them equal to their other counterparts.

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A lot of coding? Not really, just one more check on the availability of traits. Brainwork? Balancing new traits is work, but I can't imagine it would be so terrible.

 

—Alorael, who wouldn't be surprised to see racial traits replace racial bonuses in A2.2. It could finally get rid of the counterintuitive overpowered experience penalty.

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The non-humans could be forced to spend their first level trait on a racial trait, or humans could get two and all the other races could get one racial and one regular. Or the other races could get regular bonuses at level intervals, as they do now, and the humans could get extra trait points at level intervals, getting more flexibility in exchange for smaller bonuses.

 

—Alorael, who has no faith in the last solution. The general trend of Spiderweb games is rewarding specialization, and the specialization that's optimal is rarely one built into the game as a default. You don't want a default class; why would you want a default race?

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