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Osama is gone.

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Well. The president just made the speech. We found Osama, and he is now dead, by our hands. I didn't hear much of the speech, just caught the end of it, so I don't really know that much about it. It is a little soon after it happened, but it is a big issue. Does anyone know anything else?

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US special forces, acting on a Pakistani tip from August, finally found Bin Laden. He was killed in a firefight, and his body was recovered. I'm hearing no US casualties.

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Originally Posted By: Excalibur
Bin Laden's death feels rather strange considering how I basically grew up in the aftermath of 9/11. I was eight years old when that happened, and now I'm in college.


But when you think about it...he's just one man.

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Considering how there are millions of people on the internet at any given time, I don't find it surprising that someone would update Wikipedia after a big news story. tongue

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Originally Posted By: Excalibur
Considering how there are millions of people on the internet at any given time, I don't find it surprising that someone would update Wikipedia after a big news story. tongue

Yeah, that one JSOC geek.

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More details...

 

Per MSNBC, the compound where OBL was found was in an "affluent suburb" of Islamabad.

 

MSNBC is showing video of young people having a "patriotic moment" across from the White House.

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I was in the Navy on Sept 11, 2001. I was 20 years old. Pretty much my entire adult life has been under the shadow of the tragic events of that day. This evil, evil man masterminded it all. I'm a Christian man, but the world is better off without his kind (terrorists) being here.

 

I believe that with work we, as human beings, can get along with each other. It's people like Osama that made the world harder to live in.

 

I'm not ashamed to say this: I'm not at all sorry that this man was killed. By his hand or by his command, thousands of people have been killed and the entire world was left to suffer. frown

 

But thanks be to our men and women fighting around the world to keep our soldiers safe. A special thanks to the group of Navy Seals who took out this mad-man. If the man or woman who pulled the trigger that killed Osama doesn't get the Medal of Honor...then I demand a recount!

 

Post #510 cool

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Originally Posted By: Shaper Tristan
personally i wish that we had taken him alive,and honestly i imagine that we could have but the ground troops executed him on the spot.


Wasn't there a movie where the US forces did take him captive and as a result New York became besieged by bomb terrorists so the army declared martial law so they could sieve which muslim was a terrorist and which wasn't?

Click to reveal..
and this reporter helps her friend evade the authorities and finds in the end he was also a terrorist

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Originally Posted By: Erasmus
Originally Posted By: Shaper Tristan
personally i wish that we had taken him alive,and honestly i imagine that we could have but the ground troops executed him on the spot.


Wasn't there a movie where the US forces did take him captive and as a result New York became besieged by bomb terrorists so the army declared martial law so they could sieve which muslim was a terrorist and which wasn't?

Click to reveal..
and this reporter helps her friend evade the authorities and finds in the end he was also a terrorist

sounds like movies were profiting off of islamophobia, in all actuality if there were going to be massive muslim uprisings his death would also set it off.

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Originally Posted By: CRISIS on INFINITE SLARTIES
Main fallout of this:

Obama gets a huge boost in political capital and general popularity.

But will that last until the 2012 election?

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I take offense to the US killing someone is Pakistan without the government's permission. Sure he is officially a wanted terrorist by most of the world, and the Pakistan government may have tipped him off about the raid, but it's still not right.

 

What would happen if Pakistani special forces descended on the US and killed some high profile criminal?

 

Typical egotistical American garbage.

 

That's why the world hates you.

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Eeeek!! Abused internet meme! Someone call the...

 

...well...

 

...whoever it is you call.

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Originally Posted By: Excalibur
Eeeek!! Abused internet meme! Someone call the...

...well...

...whoever it is you call.


Ghostbusters?

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Come to think of it that trollface is kind of reminiscent of Ghostbusters.

 

Do proton packs work in cyberspace?

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Originally Posted By: Randomizer
Pakistan is reported to have allowed the US actions.


"Pakistan was only notified of the operation once US forces had left its airspace."

(http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-13261064)

Eh, not to side with trollface here, but it'd have been polite to say "oh, by the way, we're just going to pop into your country for a bit". You needn't have even said why. tongue

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I imagine there's some kind of agreement permitting US military action in Pakistan. Otherwise there would be a far larger outcry over the fact that there are a lot of drone attacks there, if nothing else. The US probably has some kind of permission to launch counterterrorism actions there, but are expected to notify the Pakistani authorities when they're about to do something. In this case, they didn't because of suspected leaks. Awkward but inevitable.

 

—Alorael, who also wishes bin Laden had been captured rather than killed. The trial would have been a media circus and a foregone conclusion, but justice should be served with more dignity than a gunfight. That said, taking an armed man with armed allies alive isn't easy. The US forces can't really be faulted.

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Yeah, I think the ends justified the means on this one, and I think you'll be hard-pressed to find somebody who seriously believes otherwise.

 

Edit: Well, any reasonable non-extremist person.

 

 

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General observation: It's a situation like this where you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. On one hand, sending forces to a foreign country to perform ops without giving the country a heads-up is, while not illegal, at least somewhat unethical, thus contributing to the generally poor image this country has. On the other hand, standing idly by can be just as bad, even if it does keep your hands clean, and it finally nails one of the most notorious criminals of the past decade.

 

Anyway, personally? I'm glad they didn't take him alive. Not because of any patriotic fervor or anger, but simply because it finally brings this to a quick and tidy end, rather than putting on airs and creating a media circus. We all knew how it would end anyway.

 

That said, I really hope they don't show pictures. A little class goes a long way.

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Quote:
Typical egotistical American garbage.

That's why the world hates you.


I will remind our members that this is hate speech, is not allowed on these forums, and punishments for using it are severe. Please continue respectful discussions.

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Ding dong the terrorist is dead, the wicked terrorist is dead! Sorry. i just saw this topic and reminded me of the wicked witch of the west. But so many killed in 9/11. how was he killed?

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I don't think the world hates America. For instance, I reckon Britain sees America as an annoying little brother, who constantly wants to play guns and drags you along into the game. tongue

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LSoSU: Y'know, you could just read the thread.

 

Short version: US got a lead on his location in Pakistan, and sent in some SEALs to take him down in some manor/bunker complex. Firefight ensued, Osama took more bullets in the face than is entirely healthy.

 

The real miracle is that no US troops were injured. But then, I guess that's just what Navy SEALs do.

 

EDIT: On a tangentially-related note, I keep reading this thread's title as "Obama is gone", and keep doing double-takes.

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Originally Posted By: Nioca
On one hand, sending forces to a foreign country to perform ops without giving the country a heads-up is, while not illegal, at least somewhat unethical. . .

Sending armed forces into another country without that country's consent is, in fact, illegal. The fact that Pakistan consented to other military actions in its territory in the past doesn't change its right to decide whether or not to permit new ones. The question is whether the good of killing bin Laden is great enough to justify a medium-sized violation of international law. Most people seem to say "yes," and since Pakistan is unlikely to pursue any kind of legal action, the fact that this was illegal doesn't mean very much.

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Originally Posted By: Sarachim
Originally Posted By: Nioca
On one hand, sending forces to a foreign country to perform ops without giving the country a heads-up is, while not illegal, at least somewhat unethical. . .

Sending armed forces into another country without that country's consent is, in fact, illegal. The fact that Pakistan consented to other military actions in its territory in the past doesn't change its right to decide whether or not to permit new ones.

Ah, I wasn't 100% sure on that, so I erred on the side of unethical.

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I'm personally more inclined to believe that Pakistan, or at least parts of the Pakistani gov't/military were fully aware of and did in fact approve the attack, and that the half-hearted objections and victimizations (poor, poor Pakistan!) are simply a way for Pakistan to escape any possible retaliation from al-Qaeda. It makes sense and does seem like something they would do.

 

Then again, it might not even be necessary, since another goodly segment of Pakistan's military command is pretty much in [cahoots] with Islamic terrorists, who might be rather reluctant to bite the hand that gives them money to kill Indian civilians.

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Among other reasons, because Pakistan is at least ostensibly cooperating in rooting out terrorist strongholds. It would look pretty bad for them to protest action against the number one bugbear of the United States.

 

—Alorael, who is still under the impression that Pakistan has, in fact, given the US substantial leeway in conducting independent operations in its territory. In general, it's Pakistan that has requested US aid in combating terrorism. How much of that is Pakistan's desire and how much is the US leaning on Pakistan to express desire is open to question, of course, but the Pakistani government has explicitly invited US military intervention.

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Originally Posted By: loyal servile of sasuke uchiha
...Wow. not a single troop lost? Didnt he have any deffenders?


The attack was carried out by Navy SEALS, who are arguably the best trained and equipped elite troops in the world. Delta Force and the Spetsnaz and maybe the SAS come close, but elite units are rather incredibly expensive and do have somewhat limited uses, so not many countries have "elite" elite troops.

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Originally Posted By: loyal servile of sasuke uchiha
...Wow. not a single troop lost? Didnt he have any deffenders?


good guys always win. not a single good-aligned main cast member* was killed in Star Wars, and they brought down an entire evil empire, not just one guy in a house.

(*i'm counting leia, han, luke, chewbacca, R2 and C3P0)

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Originally Posted By: Impudent Strumpet!
Originally Posted By: loyal servile of sasuke uchiha
...Wow. not a single troop lost? Didnt he have any deffenders?


good guys always win. not a single good-aligned main cast member* was killed in Star Wars, and they brought down an entire evil empire, not just one guy in a house.

(*i'm counting leia, han, luke, chewbacca, R2 and C3P0)


What about Billy Dee Williams? He was my favorite "good-aligned" character in the entire series...

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Originally Posted By: Dantius

What about Billy Dee Williams? He was my favorite "good-aligned" character in the entire series...


Would you count him as a main character? He wasn't in one film, for starters. Also, he didn't die, so you're making my point more valid. Thanks. tongue

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w00t. I feel like that about sums it up. For once, some closure.

 

Also, I've been gone for a while. I'm back.

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Originally Posted By: Pleiocracy

—Alorael, who also wishes bin Laden had been captured rather than killed. The trial would have been a media circus and a foregone conclusion, but justice should be served with more dignity than a gunfight. That said, taking an armed man with armed allies alive isn't easy. The US forces can't really be faulted.


my main reason for saying so was the dignity remark, it sums it up so nicely.
i guess i dont really blame them if it was not possible to get him out alive, but i keep thinking that the troops "tried" to take him alive, And if thats the case its absolutely despicable.

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It's not easy to take an armed guy captive if he doesn't want to surrender. Last time I checked, the selector switch on the M16 doesn't go to 'Stun'.

 

But anyway, the US government has declared openly for years that they intended to kill bin Laden. I read that Obama made it as an explicit campaign promise: "We will kill Osama bin Laden."

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Now if only people stop confusing their names, it seems every news network or station in the world has at least one reporter who subconsciously wants obama dead and osama as the US president smile

And have you seen the Taiwanese rendition? Gamers to the core :):):) rofl

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I'm not convinced this will have much influence. Osama went from living legend to a martyr in the eyes of his followers, yay! Did the guy actually do much during his manhunt? Did killing him deny other terrorists a valuable contact or resource? I've not been following news surrounding him too closely.

 

But if those are not true, then this was an empty victory. What is gained is just a few brownie points which are mitigated by revenge strikes from angry extremists. Yay!

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Originally Posted By: Frozen Feet
I'm not convinced this will have much influence. Osama went from living legend to a martyr in the eyes of his followers, yay! Did the guy actually do much during his manhunt? Did killing him deny other terrorists a valuable contact or resource? I've not been following news surrounding him too closely.

But if those are not true, then this was an empty victory. What is gained is just a few brownie points which are mitigated by revenge strikes from angry extremists. Yay!


I believe he was still providing funding (he is a multimillionaire) and some level of coordination of al-Qaeda. And despite him being "martyred", while martyrs are well and good, it's difficult for an organization to continue to function with martyrs instead of leaders.

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Martyrs are better than leaders since they are no longer able to contradict their followers.

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Martyr's provide motivation. Strong leaders or, a least the impression of it, are need to channel that motivation. While he may have had little to no say in the day to day or even in the month to month operation of al qaeda but, others in his organization drew upon him as source of their authority.

 

I think there could be significant in fighting for his position (unless they are to scared to want such a position) which could distract them from there goal and in the long run disenchant current members.

 

He provided direction and motivation. Now he only provides motivation. I say that is a win.

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