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Perry

Waiting on iPad version...

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Any news on this? I've played earlier Spiderweb games since the early days (Exile, etc.) and always enjoyed them. However, I am holding off on purchasing Avadon until it's released for the iPad. I want to support Jeff, but I believe that the iPad experience has the potential to be better than the desktop one. Anyway, what's the status?

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From the newsletter:

 

* Avadon Coming For Windows and iPad

 

Of course, we want to make sure more than just Mac owners get in on the

fun. The Windows version of Avadon: The Black Fortress has entered beta

testing, and we hope to have it ready in the beginning of May.

 

Also, we are thrilled to announce that we are also finally entering the

exciting world of developing for portable platforms. Avadon: The Black

Fortress will soon be available for the iPad. We aren't sure exactly

when it'll be ready, because that will depend in part on what Apple

says. When it's out, we'll let you know.

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Originally Posted By: Darkus
Man, you guys have no idea what I would've done to have a Spidweb experience on my iPhone. frown


yeah, the newsletter says that Avernum 1 will be coming to the iphone.

wont be getting it for mine

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Originally Posted By: Nikki.
Originally Posted By: Darkus
Man, you guys have no idea what I would've done to have a Spidweb experience on my iPhone. frown


yeah, the newsletter says that Avernum 1 will be coming to the iphone.

wont be getting it for mine

You know, I might get it for mine. I liked Monkey Island on my phone. Good for long airplane rides.

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Originally Posted By: Nikki.
Originally Posted By: Darkus
Man, you guys have no idea what I would've done to have a Spidweb experience on my iPhone. frown


yeah, the newsletter says that Avernum 1 will be coming to the iphone.

wont be getting it for mine


I'll be getting it for mine, and making damn sure my friends get it to.
Still, as great as it'd be to see a nice Avernum port to the iOS devices, I'd rather see the new series on it.
Mainly because i'm not on my PC as much anymore.

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I'm sure Avadon could be really good on the iPad. If you haven't seen it, Wesnoth is an awesome tactical RPG-like game that runs great on the iPad. More RPG's would be great.

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Originally Posted By: Darkus

Mainly because i'm not on my PC as much anymore.


Same here... I hardly play anything on my Mac anymore so I'm hesitant to buy new games for it.

I'd buy just about any Spiderweb game for my iPad though smile

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<SIGH> Just what I dreaded/eagerly anticipated hearing ... my hubby already resents the H-E-double hockey sticks out of my iGear. Books, gaming, movies, TV -- how did I ever function without my iPad?! wink

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Interestingly, the Mac version is quite playable (slow, but bearably so) via Splashtop on iPad and I'm having much more success with it than when playing it directly on my MBP. One thing is that the battery doesn't run out as quickly, the other is that the text is really a bit hard to read for me on the MBP.

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Originally Posted By: Randomizer
From the newsletter:

* Avadon Coming For Windows and iPad

Of course, we want to make sure more than just Mac owners get in on the
fun. The Windows version of Avadon: The Black Fortress has entered beta
testing, and we hope to have it ready in the beginning of May.

Also, we are thrilled to announce that we are also finally entering the
exciting world of developing for portable platforms. Avadon: The Black
Fortress will soon be available for the iPad. We aren't sure exactly
when it'll be ready, because that will depend in part on what Apple
says. When it's out, we'll let you know.

Man, you guys have no idea what I would've done to have a Spidweb experience on my iPhone

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Originally Posted By: Danny the Fool
Originally Posted By: Darkus

Mainly because i'm not on my PC as much anymore.


Same here... I hardly play anything on my Mac anymore so I'm hesitant to buy new games for it.

I'd buy just about any Spiderweb game for my iPad though smile

I'm not sure it will be that cool for me even if I'm curious too about this version. The point is there are texts, and little details, and range of view. Because of that I don't think I'll feel as comfortable than on my computer with a quite wide monitor.

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Originally Posted By: Vent
I'm not sure it will be that cool for me even if I'm curious too about this version. The point is there are texts, and little details, and range of view. Because of that I don't think I'll feel as comfortable than on my computer with a quite wide monitor.


I don't know what the iPad version of Avadon looks like, but the Mac version is quite fine at 1024x768.

Also, if there is anyone with any experience with creating UIs for games like Avadon that work at 1024x768 and below... just look at the history of Spiderweb games ;-)

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I notice a lot of people posting their iPhone/iPod experiences. Is this being ported there as well? Because I can hardly stomach playing Pocket Frogs on my iPhone, much less something as incredibly massive as a Spiderweb Game.

 

Though I will admit I enjoyed "The Quest" series and Undercroft -- gah, I loved Undercroft! smile

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Jeff hasn't mentioned any plans to do an iPhone port of any Spiderweb games. He has put out a request to the beta testers that survived to start iPad testing of Avadon.

 

I guess depending upon sales and the work involved to convert the code there may be other games transferred to the iPad.

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Originally Posted By: Randomizer
Jeff hasn't mentioned any plans to do an iPhone port of any Spiderweb games.


Er, yes he has:

Originally Posted By: 15th March Newsletter


* What Else Is Coming?

We are also slowly starting work on a ground-up rewrite of Avernum, which is itself a rewrite of our first title, Exile: Escape From the Pit. After a decade, Avernum is showing its age and very much in need of freshening up, with a new engine and graphics. (As well as a long overdue appearance on the iPhone.) But don't worry! This will only be a several month detour for us before we get back to writing all-new games.


And, I mean, if you scrolled up a little you'll see that it was discussed in this very thread, and you were part of that discussion!

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Originally Posted By: Master1
Can't you play all ipod/iphone games on the ipad?


Yes, but they look like crap if they don't support the iPad's native resolution. Retina apps also run in the lower old iPhone resolution (unless you jailbreak your iPad and use retinapad).

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Originally Posted By: Danny the Fool
Originally Posted By: Master1
Can't you play all ipod/iphone games on the ipad?


Yes, but they look like crap if they don't support the iPad's native resolution. Retina apps also run in the lower old iPhone resolution (unless you jailbreak your iPad and use retinapad).


And that's the real scam, Retina supported apps have assets already in place that are high enough resolution for iPad. Doubled iPhone apps should use retina assets by default on the iPad.

Companies like Square are double scamming with separate versions of apps for iPhone and iPad when the iPhone apps support retina resolution. I'm not going to pay 16 dollars twice for Final Fantasy III when you already have high resolution assets in the flippin iPhone retina supported app.

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Count me in the camp of those waiting for the release. smile I had planned on getting the Windows version, but then an iPad 2 "happened", and so I figured I'd wait an extra month or two. It isn't easy, though!

 

I'd offer my help in form of beta testing (totally unselfishly, of course!), but that already seems to be covered.

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It is out! 7.99 Euro, so probably 9.99 dollars, which is high by AppStore standads, but a great price for this game.

 

Downloading ...

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Originally Posted By: Mivo
It is out! 7.99 Euro, so probably 9.99 dollars, which is high by AppStore standads, but a great price for this game.


It's certainly better than $25.00. How come the iSheep get it for less than half price?

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Originally Posted By: Xoanon

It's certainly better than $25.00. How come the iSheep get it for less than half price?


It's a different market with different rules. Call iPad users sheep all you want, but some of them may have made the decision to get one because software is so cheap in the first place. Solid economic decision making, nothing sheepish about it. (Although in my case, I also bought the Mac version anyway because I happen to like Spiderweb.)

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Originally Posted By: Danny the Fool
It's a different market with different rules. Call iPad users sheep all you want, but some of them may have made the decision to get one because software is so cheap in the first place. Solid economic decision making, nothing sheepish about it. (Although in my case, I also bought the Mac version anyway because I happen to like Spiderweb.)


Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining. Now that Spiderweb have decided they sell their newest game for less than than half price, I'm looking forward to the inevitable price drop on their much older PC/Mac Avernum compilations.

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Apple has more price point control so that probably explains the lower price. It's the same for other game distributers that offer older Spiderweb Games for lower prices than here.

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It's a different market with a different culture. Even at $9.99, Avadon for the iPad is more expensive than pretty much ever other game, except for SE's Final Fantasy series and their shallow Rings of Chaos. The game is certainly worth $9.99 (and $25 for the PC/Mac version), but value alone doesn't determine whether something sells.

 

iDevices users are used to paying $0.99 to $1.99 for the vast majority of games, so anything that costs more is seen as "wow, that's expensive!". It's peculiar to observe if you game on other platforms, too.

 

I hadn't bought my iPad2 for gaming, but it somehow became my go-to gaming device after just a few days. (And ironically I barely use it for the purpose I had picked it up for: as a study tool for Go, the board game.)

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Originally Posted By: Mivo

iDevices users are used to paying $0.99 to $1.99 for the vast majority of games, so anything that costs more is seen as "wow, that's expensive!". It's peculiar to observe if you game on other platforms, too.


Yeah, it's really strange sometimes. I regularly pay EUR 50 for desktop games, I pay EUR 15 or so per month for an MMO subscription, etc. Then I look at the App Store and see one star reviews because a game supposedly is too expensive because it's more than EUR 2,99 or something.

The flipside is that the iOS market is apparently more willing to pay for games in general. Desktop game developers are happy when they sell one million, but some iOS vendors have announced hundreds of millions of units sold. Quite a difference. I hope it'll work out for Spiderweb, I want more of these games on my iPad smile

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This is an insult to all existing customers. Less than half the price? What is this crap? Why does my choice of an OS require me to pay you so much more? The $5 over the Mac version was hard to swallow already, now it's $15 over another version? You can be sure I won't be buying any more of your games and I won't be promoting them any more on communities like NeoGAF either. Good luck, I hope ipad owners serve you better than the audience you obviously don't care about any more, the Windows and Mac user that's kept you in business for many years. And to think I urged others to not wait for this version just in hopes of better pricing because it wasn't likely to be cheaper anyway, because Jeff couldn't be this ungrateful, and just wanted the few extra sales the ipad market would give him even if he'd be way outside the usual price point. Frak me. Never again. Thanks for the fun times. There's absolutely no rational reasoning whatsoever for the lack of price parity between all the different versions.

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Oh, geez.

 

I guess this was inevitable given iPad game pricing, but I wasn't expecting $10 vs $30 either. I'm sure the pricing difference isn't something Jeff is thrilled about either, but I have to imagine that Agnates's response isn't going to be totally uncommon, either. IMHO, in the future, Jeff really needs to do something to make PC versions more special, if the price point is going to be triple the iPad version.

 

And for Agnates: Spiderweb has a no-questions-asked money-back guarantee that's good for a year, and they're very good about honoring it. They really don't want you to be unhappy with your purchase. So I would suggest, if you are really this angry, that you email Spiderweb, explain that you felt blindsided by the unexpected lower price, and (if you choose to) ask for your money back.

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The iPad version is cheaper for a number of reasons.

 

1. It has fewer features, due to the limitations of the device. Most notably, it is stuck at a low (1024x768) resolution and there are no keyboard shortcuts.

2. Since it is being sold by Apple, it is subject to the rules of their system. Most notably, there is DRM, and we can't give refunds through iTunes.

3. There is no ability to modify the game.

4. There is no demo.

5. The iPad version will always come out several months after the Mac/PC version.

 

Ever with the lower price, it is still one of the most expensive games for the iPad by a fair margin. We are charging pretty much the highest price for the game we reasonably can, in part to keep from annoying other users.

 

We're sorry if anyone is angering by this. If you think about it, I think you'll see that the pricing is fair considering all the factors and that, more importantly, there really isn't much we can do about it and function as a business.

 

Finally, I think that asking for a refund for a game that you purchased, played, and enjoyed and obtained at a fair price (and yes, $25 is a fair price for PC/Mac Avadon) is, well, it's pretty shady at best. We will honor the commitments we made, but I like to think that our fans, annoyed or not, would not take advantage of a small indie developer in such a way.

 

- Jeff Vogel

 

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Originally Posted By: Agnates
Why does my choice of an OS require me to pay you so much more?


You act like that is something new or unexpected. I have been buying games at premium prices for many years due to my choice of OS - many Mac OS X ports of games are more expensive, and stay more expensive for longer, than their PC counterparts. Different markets work in different ways and require different pricing.

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My 2 cents. Jeff is right on the money. I bought the Mac version out the gate and certainly don't feel slighted, I've gotten 25 bucks worth of entertainment out of it at a minimum.

 

I'm also in the camp of "I don't like to spend more than a few bucks on iOS apps". Right or wrong, the race to the bottom has ingrained that in most peoples minds as far as games go. I spent $30 dollars on LogMeIn Ignition(well work did) but it's specialized software, that increases my productivity 10X it's worth in easy access to my machines from all over campus.

 

Jeff is right, the value of $25 is not there on the iOS version. I loved Avadon tiled out to infinity on my big fat iMac screen. Can't do that with the iPad. I also don't have the time to dedicate another play through on the iMac when I have limited time and plenty of other games to play. But being able to pick up an iPad version for 10 bucks. Sweet. Now I can run through another class at lunch, at the park, in the living room, wherever!

 

Bottom line. They are different platforms and the game is a very good value on both respectively. In a perfect world we might see a bundle where if you bought the PC/Mac version you got the iPad version free, or if you bought the iPad version you got a discount on the PC/Mac version but the way the App Store is set up, can't happen. Either way, $35 for both is still cheaper than DNF and it's only saving grace is it's short. We should be happy to have such a quality product at a reasonable price.

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Originally Posted By: Agnates
... There's absolutely no rational reasoning whatsoever for the lack of price parity between all the different versions.

Games get cheaper over time. It's that simple. I'm happy to have paid more and played sooner.

Almost any game that is ported from Windows to Mac is cheaper on Windows by the time that it makes it to the Mac. It would never even occur to me to complain about the "price disparity".

Jeff mentions some limitations of the app store version. Those are valid points, too.

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"Almost any game that is ported from Windows to Mac is cheaper on Windows by the time that it makes it to the Mac. It would never even occur to me to complain about the "price disparity"."

 

Except in this case it's all backwards because the ipad version is both newer and far cheaper. And the "older" by your standards Mac & PC versions haven't gotten cheaper.

 

As for the differences of the ipad version, err, they're ridiculous and circumstancial to say the least. Of course owners can't play it on higher than 1024x768 since that's the native resolution of the ipad. Like, duh. And it has no keyboard. The game is the same, that the hardware lacks a keyboard isn't some downgrade he did as a designer that justifies the lesser cost. And what the hell does the demo have to do with paying customers? Just the attempt to justify it in this manner is ridiculous and helps make my decision to not purchase more games in the future and not promote any of the games again feel right. The gane's own developer is telling me that the game I paid $25 for just a short while ago, buying it from his own website at that, so he doesn't have to pay ridiculous Apple fees on top, is actually only worth $10. I'll leave it at that. So long.

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Originally Posted By: Agnates
As for the differences of the ipad version, err, they're ridiculous and circumstancial to say the least. Of course owners can't play it on higher than 1024x768 since that's the native resolution of the ipad.


The iPad 2 can drive a 1920x1080 display over HDMI.

Quote:

And it has no keyboard.


I actually use a bluetooth keyboard with my iPad. I have to admit though that it hardly matters for games, since the touch interface is so much better.


You also really notice the lack of hardware power in some of the more populated areas, at least on the original iPad. Very choppy movement in some places.

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I've bought *almost* every Spiderweb game since Avernum 1 and quite honestly, I was waiting for the iPad version to come out before buying Avadon. I had (naively) figured it would be the same price as the PC version.

 

I have zero problem paying full price and actually, would prefer to pay full price so that I can at least feel like I'm doing my part to have one old school RPG come out every year from Spiderweb.

 

What would be cool is if buyers of the PC version got a free iPad version so we could pick between the two as I'm up in the air over features vs. portability. Not sure how Jeff would feel about that but at least maybe that would quell some of the whiners?

 

As a long time customer I can say that anybody who whines because they paid $25 for a 30+ hour old school rpg when those are pretty damn hard to find *sucks* and makes me ashamed of some of my fellow rpgers.

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So is Agnates angry because he feels the computer version should be less expensive, or that the iPad version should be more expensive? The first point has been argued thoroughly, and the second point seems like a waste of breath. If it's really such a matter of principle, he or she could offer to donate an extra $15 for each iPad version purchased. Or pay each computer purchaser $15 in refund.

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Originally Posted By: misheloff
I had (naively) figured it would be the same price as the PC version.

What would be cool is if buyers of the PC version got a free iPad version so we could pick between the two as I'm up in the air over features vs. portability. Not sure how Jeff would feel about that but at least maybe that would quell some of the whiners?


I was expecting 19.99 parity with the app store release so I was pleasantly surprised at a 9.99 price point on the iPad.

I couldn't say if Jeff would be for or against a free iPad version with the PC/Mac purchase (my guess is probably pro) but there's no mechanism right now for developers to issue a free copy of an iPad app (well there is but developers are limited to 50 codes per app, and promo code purchased apps can't have reviews left for them).

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Originally Posted By: Agnates
As for the differences of the ipad version, err, they're ridiculous and circumstancial to say the least. Of course owners can't play it on higher than 1024x768 since that's the native resolution of the ipad. Like, duh. And it has no keyboard. The game is the same, that the hardware lacks a keyboard isn't some downgrade he did as a designer that justifies the lesser cost. And what the hell does the demo have to do with paying customers? Just the attempt to justify it in this manner is ridiculous and helps make my decision to not purchase more games in the future and not promote any of the games again feel right. I'll leave it at that. So long.


How does the fact that it's available cheaper on another platform hurt you, exactly? If you think the game is worth $25, you got your money's worth and aren't really in a position to complain. If you think it's not worth $25, whether or not it's now available for cheaper doesn't change that. In either case I don't see the point in getting so angry about it.

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