Full, auto-heal is an odd choice.

[Clocknova]

I am finding find the automatic full heal after combat feature rather annoying. It makes combat virtually meaningless, at least, so far as I've gotten into the game. I think some amount of partial healing is nice, but total? Again, this should be something, like the quest markers on the map, that should be scaled back or eliminated with increased difficulty levels. Or at least make it an optional feature. I read Jeff's blog on game difficulty, and I agree with his opinion in theory but, in practice, it takes a lot of the excitement out of the game. Does anyone know why he didn't make these things optional? It seems like the logical choice to have made.

 

I sincerely hope that the overall lack of difficulty doesn't keep me from fully enjoying the game, as I so desperately want to like it but, so far, it is.

[tehpineapple]

Remember that this is a completely new product. it's not supposed to be an Avernum 7, even though I think we all really want one.

 

It's hip, it's modern, and it's on Steam, baby.

 

Auto-regen is the new model, its just how they do it now.

I definitely get the feeling that this game is mostly targeted at new players, with a bare minimum of what Jeff thinks it will take to hold on to his old fan-base.

 

You can NOT say this is a bad game though, it's super polished and has all the greatness I expect from story, characters, quests, etc. But am I pissed off that it's impossible to screw up my character build? Or that I don't have to care how much health I lose or PCs die during battle? A little. But I'll get used to it. [/rant, back to playing]

[nikki.]

Yeah, I can think of several other games that have full, auto-healing between fights. Those fights tend to be tougher overall, though. Is that the case in Avadon?

[Clocknova]

I'm not saying it's a bad game. But Jeff's games are usually geared towards more "old-school" RPG players; how "they" tend to do it now shouldn't be much of a consideration.

 

Still, you have a point, which is all the more reason to make such things optional. Here's hoping that Avadon 2 gives us the option to take it back old-school.

[Slawbug]

I strongly disagree that auto-heal correlates with lack of difficulty.

 

In previous SW games, surviving long dungeons was never difficult. The "attrition" test of 80's and early 90's CRPGs in which a party had to be strong enough to defeat monsters AND enduring enough to deal with a dungeon full of 'em, never existed in SW games, due to plentiful healing, and even plentiful spell point restoration if you looked for the right items and abilities.

 

Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the Marsh Cave in FF1, too! And the Cave of Ordeals in FF3j. Those were painfully difficult. Serious attrition. However, eliminating the attrition element doesn't just make things easier -- it also expands the game's tactical depth for any given battle. Not having to worry about resource conservation means that expensive abilities will actually get used once in a while. You have more options and things are more interesting. And frankly, it's a LOT easier to properly balance "kill before this enemy has a chance to kill you!" rather than "kill before you get unlucky and take a disproportionate amount of damage which will cripple your current attempt at the gauntlet."

 

This is a common mechanic in so-called tactical RPGs, which as a general rule are harder and more demanding of intelligent battle tactics than regular CRPGs.

[Clocknova]

I guess that I just feel differently. I feel like the whole "planning for an expedition" stage of each trip outside of friendly territory, which I really like, is lost now. I'm sure the game will get harder, but right now I'm breezing through it on "hard." It used to be you had to be at least a little selective of the fights you picked. Not so much anymore.

[Alorael at Large]

Where are you in the game? In general, Avadon has a fair but not overwhelming number of irritating minor enemies and a handful of set-piece fights with either lots of enemies, very tough enemies, or both, sometimes with scripting thrown in. The early game is very easy; the difficulty ramps up steadily, and for a substantial part of the game it does so faster than you accumulate gear and experience.

 

The actual attrition you face is in stamina, by the way. Your health regenerates, but stamina doesn't. And it's still not really a limiting factor. Consider: before most major fights you can run away and heal, or even just use items to heal. There's too little cost to make the fights worth balancing for parties not at full strength.

 

—Alorael, who also thinks you should look forward to some of the more interesting running fights in the late game. There usual are chances to rest and recover if you're careful, but if you really want a challenge, try charging on.

[Colonel Haste]

I like the auto-healing. In A6 I would fully heal after every fight and never had a resource issue. Mainly because First Aid was so useful. But also I used a dedicated fighter with one level of Priest and even with an Intelligence of 1 for part of the game where he had the endurance knife he always had enough SP to fully heal the party. But the healing was a bit of a grind; I sometimes had to cast it 8 or 10 times. Woo hoo, I saved some SP from my real Priest, but yet I kept doing the grind because it made strategic sense. Anything that elminates the grind is good.

[Clocknova]

Perhaps if the rate of heal were slowed a bit. It's ridiculously unrealistic.

[Zummi]

Soooo... unrealistic, eh?

[tehpineapple]

Originally Posted By: Clocknova

Perhaps if the rate of heal were slowed a bit. It's ridiculously unrealistic.

More unrealistic than talking dragons, and the most powerful person on the planet being a

?

[Alorael at Large]

Realistic would be slowly recuperating for months after a minor fight goes wrong.

 

—Alorael, who doesn't play games for realism. He plays games for awesome.

[Zummi]

Realistic would be... boring.

[Randomizer]

Don't complain about auto-healing. During testing I had to restart my torment difficulty game at the halfway point after I used up every healing potion, elixir, and scroll that was available and found how few could still be gotten in the rest of the game.

 

This just speeds up healing so you can go back to killing.

[The Amaster]

Having just gotten through the Wretch mines, I definitely don't mind the auto-heal as much as I did before. Its more that that first dungeon with the rats and spiders was so pathetic.

[Erebus the Black]

Of course its pathetic, its supposed to get you leveled, not killed!

[Clocknova]

Originally Posted By: tehpineapple

Originally Posted By: Clocknova

Perhaps if the rate of heal were slowed a bit. It's ridiculously unrealistic.

More unrealistic than talking dragons, and the most powerful person on the planet being a

?

Actually, yes. The things that you mentioned are all true within the "world" of the game. They all have explanations and are accepted as part of the reality of Avadon. The auto healing, on the other hand, feels like an artificial game mechanic, and I just wish I had the option of toning it down or eliminating it. That's all.

Although I must admit that after stumbling upon the caverns beneath the dragon's aerie while only level seven, the auto-heal got a lot of use. Still, I would enjoy the game more without it.

[Sterno]

Originally Posted By: tehpineapple

It's hip, it's modern, and it's on Steam, baby.

Is Avadon actually on Steam? I don't see it there. I wouldn't ignore Impulse as a possible delivery platform, either. Much smaller than Steam, but they've got a decent user-base and tend to get indie games available faster and more often than Steam does.

[Nasarius]

Originally Posted By: Sterno

I wouldn't ignore Impulse as a possible delivery platform, either.

I find it difficult to take Impulse seriously, because it's the exact same business model as Steam, just with slightly laxer standards on what they'll include. And the owner of Stardock is...controversial.

If Jeff can get Avadon on Steam, there's really no compelling reason to put it on Impulse as well. Mostly-open platforms like Apple's app stores are a different matter. That's really what we need in the indie gaming world.

[Sterno]

Steam would definitely be better exposure, but as a customer I prefer Impulse for indie games, if I have a choice between the two. Steam tends to be a lot slower getting patches out for non-AAA titles, and usually you can't install the patch manually for the Steam version. Take a look at Steam forums for Eschalon and how long they had to wait for some of the patches. Not only does Impulse update faster, they also don't add in any DRM, so you can just patch manually on your own.

 

But I'm way off topic now.