Rotghroth Rhapsody Tracer Bullet Posted December 9, 2010 Share Posted December 9, 2010 1. I find it hard to believe that Issss-Ta finally submitted to the Shaping involved in becoming a drakon. She looked good as a drayk. 2. Does anyone remember the name of that Awakened researcher from the Magus Complex? 3. Did anyone find a way to kill the possessed rotghroth in the Demonic Depot? 4. Did anyone ever find a drayk named Akkat on Sucia? 5. Did anyone fill up the bracelet of stones on Greenwood Isle? 6. I once, in the Lethia Pass, I think it was, anyway, it was the one with the Plated Artila and the Gazer...Anyhow, I went up there with a kyshakk and four alphas, and staged a heavy-duty fifty-seven round shootout. I had to break formation when the patchworks got out, though. Can anyone else claim better? I would have succeeded if not for a shortage of essence pods. 7. I, too, battled the Ornk Lord of Geneforge I. What the heck was that all about? What I like best about Geneforge I was the exceptional depth of the background. None of the other games come close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Randomizer Posted December 9, 2010 Share Posted December 9, 2010 Originally Posted By: Sage of Numenor 6. I once, in the Lethia Pass, I think it was, anyway, it was the one with the Plated Artila and the Gazer...Anyhow, I went up there with a kyshakk and four alphas, and staged a heavy-duty fifty-seven round shootout. I had to break formation when the patchworks got out, though. Can anyone else claim better? I would have succeeded if not for a shortage of essence pods. You needed creation? Daze and/or charm really helps for the final battle to keep the patchworks under control as you take out that gazer. Quote: 7. I, too, battled the Ornk Lord of Geneforge I. What the heck was that all about? What I like best about Geneforge I was the exceptional depth of the background. None of the other games come close. The Ornk Lord is an easter egg type monster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyshakk Koan Mod. Posted December 9, 2010 Share Posted December 9, 2010 Originally Posted By: Sage of Numenor 2. Does anyone remember the name of that Awakened researcher from the Magus Complex? Ah, I hate myself for my inability to remember the name. He pretty much tarnished the goodness of the Awakened though. Originally Posted By: Sage of Numenor 3. Did anyone find a way to kill the possessed rotghroth in the Demonic Depot? Kill the two shades nearby (one is a shaper and one is a drakon) then just go pummel the demon with spells and creations until he dies. At least that is how i remember it. He drops a nice demon claw for you, which you can use to get an emerald chestguard. Originally Posted By: Sage of Numenor 4. Did anyone ever find a drayk named Akkat on Sucia? I am sure I saw him somewhere up near the geneforge. I think he is that drayk anyway. He is about two zones before the geneforge if I remember right, the other entrance (not the creation holding area that contains Danette's shade). I believe there is a pair of damaged geneforge gloves in that same area. Originally Posted By: Sage of Numenor 7. I, too, battled the Ornk Lord of Geneforge I. What the heck was that all about? What I like best about Geneforge I was the exceptional depth of the background. None of the other games come close. Agreed completely. Geneforge 1 was the best of the series without a doubt. From the very first time you get on the game the music and image sets a mood. That mood is translated throughout the game. The game is full of unique areas. The island itself has an interesting history to discover. Ancient shades and ghosts roam in different areas of the island. It even had the great secret. And no other Geneforge game has anything as interesting as the Ornk Lord. After defeating some beastly Elder Ornks, the Ornk Lord appears in a beam of heavenly light to avenge all the ornks you killed throughout the game. I wished so much for something more than just that little fight. I also wish he was tougher and the gloves were better. It is a shame information about that was never at all expanded throughout the series. Geneforge 2 is in 2nd place. It didn't have the same mood, but it was still more enjoyable than the other games of the series. It replaced shades and ornks with demons. There were about four demons you could meet in the game, and only 3 could have a conversation with you. Information about them is slim, and again, never increased throughout the series. I wish the geneforge series was less about a war, and included more of the geneforge feel. I wish it had more things such as G1 had so much undiscovered history. The series would've been more enjoyable if revelation of such information connected the series. I sincerely hope Jeff does not tie his new series together with just a war and basic concept, but rather with the history and mysterious things being gradually revealed always leaving room for more that makes a series so great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Micawber Posted December 9, 2010 Share Posted December 9, 2010 Originally Posted By: Mod. Originally Posted By: Sage of Numenor 2. Does anyone remember the name of that Awakened researcher from the Magus Complex? Ah, I hate myself for my inability to remember the name. He pretty much tarnished the goodness of the Awakened though. It was Tuldaric. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Tracer Bullet Posted December 10, 2010 Author Share Posted December 10, 2010 As for Daze/Charm, I've never seen their value. I never use them. At least, not yet. Even when I was an Agent, briefly, I relied on Heust Blade, Xander, Huge Roamer, and my lonely Drakon. I was just a healer. Until I got the Emerald Chestguard, which relieved me of the annoying -20% hit chance. Then I could really join the fight again. I also learned an invaluable lesson during that time. The AI is utterly, undeniably, unequivocally, indubitably, completely, etc., etc., STUPID! Any solutions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Tracer Bullet Posted December 10, 2010 Author Share Posted December 10, 2010 I rank them thus: 1st: Geneforge 2nd: G2 3rd: G5 4th: G4 5th: G3 Any concurrences? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Tracer Bullet Posted December 10, 2010 Author Share Posted December 10, 2010 Oh yeah, I forgot. There are the oozebeasts in later games. I'm guessing Zakary or one of the others encountered the rogue ornks, defiled their temple, and then realized that their design, if altered could actually be used in combat.... Any concurrences? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyshakk Koan Mod. Posted December 10, 2010 Share Posted December 10, 2010 Originally Posted By: Sage of Numenor I rank them thus: 1st: Geneforge 2nd: G2 3rd: G5 4th: G4 5th: G3 Any concurrences? I concur. The first two overshadow the other three by a large margin, and then five is not beating four by a whole lot. Originally Posted By: Sage of Numenor Oh yeah, I forgot. There are the oozebeasts in later games. I'm guessing Zakary or one of the others encountered the rogue ornks, defiled their temple, and then realized that their design, if altered could actually be used in combat.... Any concurrences? Oozebeasts occured in G2, but only in a lab in the lair of the bound one. Maybe he was trying to recreate something that he might of found "back home". Then they reproduced creating the oozebeasts of the later games. The last surviving of the original oozebeasts eventually leveled up enough to become the uberoozebeast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Dikiyoba Posted December 10, 2010 Share Posted December 10, 2010 Mod note: posting several posts in a row can be annoying, so in the future please edit posts whenever you think of something else to say instead of creating a new post. Thanks. Dikiyoba prefers G4 over G5 by a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Slawbug Posted December 10, 2010 Share Posted December 10, 2010 I strongly agree that G4 is better than G5. G5 feels aimless. G4 has some gritty charm to it. The killing comparison for G5 is G2, which is also a more open-ended game, but feels much more put-together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Tracer Bullet Posted December 10, 2010 Author Share Posted December 10, 2010 Hmmm. It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Tracer Bullet Posted December 11, 2010 Author Share Posted December 11, 2010 The problem with G4 is that everybody who was anybody was bonkers, and anybody who was everybody else was, well, everybody else. There's a problem with this sentence, I just know it.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Dikiyoba Posted December 11, 2010 Share Posted December 11, 2010 Everyone was bonkers in G3 as well, and so were most of the people in G2. Dikiyoba. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Tracer Bullet Posted December 11, 2010 Author Share Posted December 11, 2010 In part 3, I have to disagree. On G2, you're right, except that's actually cool, if properly handled. It's like a sequel hook. It has to be done right, or it look really cheesy. Madmen are amazing! (as in, we all are amazing) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenderfoot Thahd LORDKINGDAMANLORD josue Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 bonkers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Dikiyoba Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Yes, bonkers. Humans and drakons driven crazy by excessive canister usage and other self-shaping. Dikiyoba. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unflappable Drayk Ceiling Durkheim Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Well, that or slavishly adherent to Shaper orthodoxy, and thus willing to exterminate entire sentient species. Really, there's not much to like about either side in G3/4*. Methinks 'A Small Rebellion' gave Jeff a lot of ideas for the Geneforge series... *Except Khyryk, and maybe Greta in G4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curious Artila KrataLightblade Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 To be fair, the Shapers have some strong basis for their views. Look what happens when people start violating their laws willy nilly, for example. Chaos, lots of indescriminate murdering, entire regions rendered useless and full of horrible monsters, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Agnessa Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Not to mention the fact that many of the creations (at least as made by those following Shaper law) are not species, technically speaking (given that they are made infertile at creation, therefore they are *not* capable of interbreeding/producing fertile offspring). Serviles are a species (and quite likely ornks as well, though I don't recall anything specific in canon on that point), but I don't recall anyone (other than one madman in 5) who thought they should be eliminated as an entire species. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unflappable Drayk Ceiling Durkheim Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 I don't see what the "by those following Shaper law" has to do with anything. Drayks exist, Shaper law says they all have to die. The fact that Shapers don't make more drayks doesn't change the fact that they would gladly murder all existing drayks. I suppose it's better than making more drayks, then murdering them for the hell of it, but "damning with faint praise" doesn't quite do that comparison justice. Drayks, drakons, and eyebeasts are sentient species capable of reproducing themselves, and also barred, i.e. to be killed on sight. One can argue that this might be for the best with eyebeasts, as they seem to be pretty Always Chaotic Evil, though even then I find the whole genocide thing a bit questionable. Drakons are often bastards, but by no means all of them are, and even then the games imply that this at least as much the consequence of unchecked reshaping as it is anything intrinsic to the species. Drayks don't seem substantially worse than humans and serviles. So, yeah, extermination of entire sentient species. I do agree on other aspects of Shaper law, though. Reshaping/canisters, while they could theoretically be good in moderation (imagine the number of lives a village healer/army medic/doctor could save with access to basic healing magic), very few people seem to actually practice any restraint in using them. Ideally, they would be strictly regulated, but banning them entirely seems preferable to letting a bunch of lunatics use them without restriction. Still, the genocide thing seals the deal for me. I don't think the rebels are good by any stretch of the imagination (hence my previous comment about not liking either side), but I think they're better than the alternative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Slawbug Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Originally Posted By: FnordCola Methinks 'A Small Rebellion' gave Jeff a lot of ideas for the Geneforge series... A Small Rebellion was an obvious precursor, in this respect, to both Nethergate and Geneforge. Valley of Dying Things was another giant precursor, right down to the elite trio who double-cross each other while abandoning the school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unflappable Drayk Ceiling Durkheim Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Huh. That's a good point. G1 is the one game in the series I haven't played to completion, so that didn't occur to me, but now that you mention it...yeah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Agnessa Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Originally Posted By: FnordCola I don't see what the "by those following Shaper law" has to do with anything. Drayks exist, Shaper law says they all have to die. The fact that Shapers don't make more drayks doesn't change the fact that they would gladly murder all existing drayks. I suppose it's better than making more drayks, then murdering them for the hell of it, but "damning with faint praise" doesn't quite do that comparison justice. Drayks, drakons, and eyebeasts are sentient species capable of reproducing themselves, and also barred, i.e. to be killed on sight. Well, the reason I say "by those following Shaper law" is that drayks (made according to Shaper law) should basically die out without having to be killed simply because they were supposed to be created sterile (i.e. *NOT* capable of reproducing themselves). Drakons and eyebeasts I'll leave out just because they're already outside Shaper law. So again, a drayk is not, technically speaking, a species. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unflappable Drayk Ceiling Durkheim Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 And yet drayks aren't actually sterile. Whoever is at fault for this, it leaves the Shapers with the question of how to deal with them. Their answer: kill 'em all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curious Artila KrataLightblade Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Well, again, let's be fair to the Shapers. Their creations are, in many cases, extroardinarily dangerous beings who the Shapers try very hard to control and keep safe. It's only in times of stress that a law-abiding and sane/reasonable Shaper would lose control of a creation so badly that widespread damage could occur. Shapers who overreach their powers and create a dangerous creation they cannot control may sound like a self-correcting issue until that creation kills a lot more people than the Shaper who made it. Mind you, I'm not defending the arrogance of the Shapers and their belief that anything and everything they make should slavishly serve them without question. But with the exception of the serviles, the Shapers go to great lengths to avoid having the issue ever come up in the first place... because they aren't supposed to be making thing smart enough to challenge them anyway. Servant Minds are smart, but their loyalty is pre-programmed to an extreme that prevents most of them from having much in the way of self-awareness, and also they can't move or defend themselves without outside assistance. Drayks are a very different thing. Look at situations in our own world where new animals are introduced into an ecosystem without any real understanding of the consequences. Ask people in Australia why they don't let animals through customs anymore, for example. Now imagine that it's not just a case of naturally occuring animals, but that one person who's just a little crazy, stupid, or irresponsible can create something extremely dangerous to normal people (like, say, a four legged doglike being that spits acid and explodes when it dies?), then let them loose to devastate an entire region. Now, to bring all this back to the point of creating independant species and then eradicating them all... look at it as a case of Shapers trying to erase a particularly dangerous mistake before it does any more damage. Looking at it from that perspective, questioning the morality of destroying a race of baby dragons that at first were rare and dangerous mistakes and later learning to SHAPE THEMSELVES and create even more dangerous versions of themselves... Let's just say I can understand the Shaper point of view. They're still arrogant pricks and the entire society could use a collective kick in their hidebound rear ends, but they have a good point when it comes to controlling their creations. This isn't really a case of a parent killing their children as much as it is a mage taking care of his mistakes. It's understandable that the children wouldn't see it this way. It's less understandable that the children respond by learning the arts that created them and then using them to murder thousands upon thousands of people whose only crime was trying to live their lives under a regime that's existed since before they were born. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unflappable Drayk Ceiling Durkheim Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 An interesting argument. It's actually making me reconsider my stance on drakons, but not on drayks. Drayks, after all, never learn how to shape. At best they can craft essence into inanimate equipment, but even Shapers grudgingly allow outsiders to do this. And it's not as if drayks (or other rebels/Takers) even created drakons in the first place. I agree that invasive species have the potential to be very harmful, but I think there's a major difference between a nutria or a gypsy moth caterpillar and a being that can think and feel in the same way a human can. What you call a dangerous mistake, I'm inclined to call a person. Moreover, since humans are pretty much the ultimate invasive species, and more harmful to the natural environment than all the others combined (even in the Geneforge world, let alone our own), it seems according to this logic that the best solution to the problem would be to kill all humans as well. Would it be better if drayks had never existed? Perhaps, though even then I'm a bit dubious about the claim, since there are some drayk characters in the Geneforge series who seem strongly ethical by human standards. Drayks do exist, though, and have the capacity to reproduce themselves. This means that the problem is not whether they should have been created, but rather whether they should be allowed to exist, or be killed off. And given that they seem to have existed for a substantial amount of time before being barred (given both the number we encounter in the series, and the fact that creations derived from them exist in large numbers, i.e. living boats), chances are the Shapers killed off quite a few of them. I still have great difficulty seeing this as anything other than mass murder and genocide. And yes, many of the actions the rebels took are horribly immoral as well. Even in this, I'm not convinced the Shapers are much better, though. After all, "murder thousands upon thousands of people whose only crime was trying to live their lives under a regime that's existed since before they were born" sounds a lot like what the Shapers did (albeit on a somewhat smaller scale, though how much so remains unclear) upon their return to Sucia Island. The serviles there didn't choose to be born free from Shaper rule, but many of them died for it, and all would have if Zakary and Barzahl's ambition hadn't led them to contravene Shaper law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Dikiyoba Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Originally Posted By: Agnessa Well, the reason I say "by those following Shaper law" is that drayks (made according to Shaper law) should basically die out without having to be killed simply because they were supposed to be created sterile (i.e. *NOT* capable of reproducing themselves). Drakons and eyebeasts I'll leave out just because they're already outside Shaper law. So again, a drayk is not, technically speaking, a species. There are multiple definitions of what species are. Whether drayks count as a species or not depends on what definition one is using. Also, drayks are capable of reproducing with each other and are therefore, by own your definition, a species. Dikiyoba. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Alorael at Large Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 Roamers or artilas getting loose, killing off the local wildlife and villagers, and wreaking havoc are invasive species. I can understand killing them off to bring them under control. That has nothing to do with the drayk problem. They're not invasive species by any reasonable ecological definition. They're dangerous and threatening to humans, certainly, but no more so than the Shapers themselves. Both have immense powers and are difficult for anyone to control but themselves and each other. In other words, despite not sharing humanoid forms, they're all people, and the problem is political. —Alorael, whose comparison is what the drayks would be up to if there were no Shaper authority. In fact, the drayks seem perfectly capable of living in relative harmony with the human rebels, drakon problems aside. If the Shapers weren't so dead-set against all drayks, they could be happy and productive members of society. The games show how much of a problem dealing with dumb beasts who are weapons can be. The drayks could be excellent soldiers and scholars and even laborers for a more tolerant regime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unflappable Drayk Ceiling Durkheim Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 Quote: The drayks could be excellent soldiers and scholars and even laborers for a more tolerant regime. If memory serves, doesn't it say in G1 or 2 that the Shapers created drayks to function mainly as historians and keepers of knowledge? Shame they got barred, since they actually seem pretty good at it. At least if Isss-Ta is any indication. Though it also makes one wonder why the Shapers thought it would be a good idea to make the keepers of collective memory, y'know, dragons. They needn't be as helpless as servant minds, but it does seem like massive physical strength and fire breath would be fairly ancillary to their stated purpose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Tracer Bullet Posted January 9, 2011 Author Share Posted January 9, 2011 They are protectors of conspiracy theories and must therefore be prepared to defend themselves against assassinations by rival conspiracy theorists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unflappable Drayk Ceiling Durkheim Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 Are you suggesting that drayks are advocates of vahnatai creationism? Perhaps that's why the Shapers hate them so much! The truth is out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast The Mystic Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Originally Posted By: Sage of Numenor They are protectors of conspiracy theories and must therefore be prepared to defend themselves against assassinations by rival conspiracy theorists. I knew it was all one big conspiracy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Tirien Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Originally Posted By: FnordCola Are you suggesting that drayks are advocates of vahnatai creationism? Perhaps that's why the Shapers hate them so much! The truth is out there. The truth is that anyone who mentions such crossovers will have a angry mob with pitchforks and torches after them. And dual-wielded flamethrowers. Flamethrowers solve almost anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast The Mystic Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Originally Posted By: Tirien The truth is that anyone who mentions such crossovers will have a angry mob with pitchforks and torches after them. And I can provide a nice bonfire for the mob to use as a meeting place before going after the source of the crossover. I think I have a pitchfork somewhere, too... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unflappable Drayk Ceiling Durkheim Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 But...but...Leena and vahnatai Taygen! Their love is meant to be! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Slawbug Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Do you think Leena thpontaneouthry combuthted? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Tirien Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Originally Posted By: CRISIS on INFINITE SLARTIES Do you think Leena thpontaneouthry combuthted? You have blown my mind, Slarty. What was left of it, that is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Tracer Bullet Posted January 10, 2011 Author Share Posted January 10, 2011 Originally Posted By: Tirien And dual-wielded flamethrowers. Flamethrowers solve almost anything. I most wholeheartedly concur, especially after a SPECTACULAR display by my Bard Taliesin and his Powder Horn--I mean, Fire Horn. How about Acid Shower? That solved most of my problems in G2. Aura of Flames, nah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curious Artila KrataLightblade Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 For the record, Fnord and Alroel, you both make good points. And from an outsider's point of view, they make perfect sense. From our modern, third party perspective, they're good arguements. From an in-world standpoint, there is an equally good arguement to be made that fully sentient creations are a dangerous mistake that should never have been allowed and should be eliminated as a violation of the Shapers' highest laws and a potential danger to humanity... and more specifically the Shapers themselves. Rightly or wrongly, any society will defend itself if it feels threatened, and the Shapers are defending themselves from what they consider a huge threat. And if you'll note, it turns out, they're right. The Drayks and Drakons and free Serviles ARE a huge threat. The Takers don't want peace. They want the heads of every Shaper they can find on a spike. Even the Awakened are dangerous, because they shake the very foundation of Shaper society, the use of Serviles as a labor force. Some might call it abolishing slavery, others might say that the serviles were never INTENDED to be made smart enough to rebel in the first place and eliminating dangerous rogues is more like turning off a robot that isn't living up to its original purpose anymore. Mind you, once again, I'm not really defending the Shapers actions. From MY modern, safe third party standpoint, I consider their society to be moderately monstrous, built on a shaky foundation of slavery and rampant barely-controlled magical power that would inevitably spiral out of control one way or another anyway. But from the standpoint of the remarkably stable and safe Shaper society? They're doing what they feel is right. They aren't cackling cartoon villains. If anything, the rebels who overuse canisters come off that way much more than the Shapers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unflappable Drayk Ceiling Durkheim Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 I agree that the Shapers think they're the good guys. One of the reasons I like the Geneforge series so much is because it's so short on Snidely Whiplash types (well, maybe not, but the important characters almost always think they're doing the right thing). I think it's fair to point out that the rebels are the same way. There are plenty of fanatics on both sides, and a lot of good people faced with sadistic choices, but few unequivocally evil people. Anyway, while I think the rebels are preferable to the Shapers in terms of morality, I think those who go for peace and sanity (most notably Astoria in G5) are better than either. In some ways the Trakovites may actually be the least morally compromised in their actions (Litalia has you do some nasty things in G5, but so does...everybody else, really), but I disagree with their main goal pretty seriously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Tracer Bullet Posted January 11, 2011 Author Share Posted January 11, 2011 Question: Whatever happened to the Awakened? I heard they were massacred. Is that right? If they had stuck around to the end, I would have been very happy. but they didn't. There's morality for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Tirien Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Getting massacred is the moral thing to do? I'll have to remember that next time I play Geneforge. I'll just run into the middle of the biggest mob I can, without armor. Being moral hurts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast The Mystic Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Originally Posted By: Sage of Numenor Whatever happened to the Awakened? I heard they were massacred. Is that right? If they had stuck around to the end, I would have been very happy. but they didn't. Last I heard of the Awakened, if you didn't join them in Geneforge 3, the Shapers consider them to be dangerous, uppity rogues, and obliterate them. I don't recall the Awakened being mentioned in later games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unflappable Drayk Ceiling Durkheim Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 I think the idea is that because the Awakened were more moral, they weren't willing to go to the (intermittently horrifying) lengths the Takers were in order to gain power, and as such got slaughtered. @Sage: yeah, it's pretty clear that the Awakened get slaughtered at the end of G2. The serviles of Penta in G5 aren't direct ideological descendants, but they do hark back to them, ironically since they're named after an Obeyer town from G1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Tracer Bullet Posted January 11, 2011 Author Share Posted January 11, 2011 Angry mob, mind you. You can't expect the people of Haria-Kel to just up and kill you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Dikiyoba Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Originally Posted By: KrataLightblade But from the standpoint of the remarkably stable and safe Shaper society? Dunno. We see the Shapers mess up time and time again. Abandoning Sucia Island turned out to be a pretty big mistake, and if it hadn't been Sucia, it would have been some other Barred island or laboratory or dumping ground that started the whole mess off. And then the Shapers pretty much ignored the rumors of rebellion until it was too late and a continent-wide war broke out. The Shapers seem to spend all their time covering up problems rather than dealing with them. They just blow up the lab or Bar the island or kill the creator and pretend the problem is gone. Sure, intelligent serviles were a mistake. But you can't just kill them all off and pretend it never happened. You have to figure out what to do with them, otherwise of course they're going to hate you and want your head on a spike. Dikiyoba. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Randomizer Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Originally Posted By: Dikiyoba Sure, intelligent serviles were a mistake. But you can't just kill them all off and pretend it never happened. You have to figure out what to do with them, otherwise of course they're going to hate you and want your head on a spike. Dikiyoba. In Geneforge 4 you meet the Shaper solution to intelligent serviles. A servile that will kill itself on a Shaper's command. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Goldengirl Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Originally Posted By: Randomizer In Geneforge 4 you meet the Shaper solution to intelligent serviles. A servile that will kill itself on a Shaper's command. How did that end up working for them, as the course of G4 and G5 show? Hint: Not well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unflappable Drayk Ceiling Durkheim Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Do we ever really get to see how that works out? I thought Kiki in G4 was the only servile of that type we encounter, and she doesn't do much besides give you missions. In principle, though, I agree. Even if serviles with a built in kill switch reduced the problem of rebellious serviles, they'd compound problems relating to rebellious humans. Various prominent rebels, most notably Greta and Litalia, cite the mistreatment of serviles as a major reason for turning, and presumably something as awful as a suicide command on a sentient being would be enough to disgust a lot of Shapers and outsiders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Dikiyoba Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 There is a second servile like Kiki spying for the Shapers among the rebels. She's not important either. However, a new kind of servile may prevent the problem from reoccuring in the future, but it does nothing about the free-willed, intelligent serviles that already exist (and will continue to exist, since they can reproduce). Canonically, the Shapers go with a kill-on-sight policy and it fails horribly. But in a few other endings they worked with the serviles and had a lot of success. That's my point. The Shapers are so busy trying to look perfect and cover up mistakes that they can't actually manage mistakes when they occur and so the mistakes spiral out of control and do a lot of damage. It's not that great a system. Dikiyoba. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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