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Avadon Developer Diary #2

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Originally Posted By: Fearstung
After you do some of his quests, Redbeard sews an extra arm on you.


With my luck it'll be in the wrong place so I can't scatch myself while fighting. smile

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Originally Posted By: Randomizer
Originally Posted By: Fearstung
After you do some of his quests, Redbeard sews an extra arm on you.


With my luck it'll be in the wrong place so I can't scatch myself while fighting. smile


If you're lucky, you'll get a second head, too. That way, you'll have a much easier time ski-boxing!

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Maybe it is a good idea to be able to get better gear by jumping through special hoops, whether that means working for Redbeard or joining some merchant's Frequent Buyer Club.

 

I have an idea that if something is really worth doing, it's worth really doing. So why not say that buy working for Redbeard, at some point you can get, say, a shotgun. Or something, anyway, that really makes a major difference.

 

That would be quite impractical for Jeff, since he'd effectively have to make two parallel games after the shotgun acquisition fork. But maybe if he dialed the effect down some it wouldn't be too bad. Probably the sweet spot of design effort versus play novelty isn't sweet enough. But it's a nice idea in principle.

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Honestly I'm kind of wondering if all these attempts to make merchants more useful aren't solutions in search of a problem.

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Well, the problem is that without decent merchants, money is a solution in search of a problem. If there's nothing worth buying except training, then all those coin drops are really just XP that takes a little extra tedious walking and clicking to activate.

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Yeah, I agree.

 

The problem currently is that there *ARE* things worth buying... however, since the effective bonus you get from them is only temporary (until you find something better) and not usually much larger than the bonus you get from buying points in skills, it's almost always better even in the fairly short term to save up for skills.

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Maybe have two different kinds of currency, one that is used for training and such, and one that all the merchants use.

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Originally Posted By: CRISIS on INFINITE SLARTIES
Yeah, I agree.

The problem currently is that there *ARE* things worth buying... however, since the effective bonus you get from them is only temporary (until you find something better) and not usually much larger than the bonus you get from buying points in skills, it's almost always better even in the fairly short term to save up for skills.


Hmm. Since we're tossing out idea here, what about just not having trainers in the first place? I mean, magic trainers sure, but I do have to suspend disbelief that "I can pay this guy 200 pieces of eight and he'll suddenly improve my skill at shooting a bow instantaneously".

Or we could go back to an early Avernum mechanic of having to pay to spend skill points and that you could only do it in very few specific areas. I miss that.

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Originally Posted By: Dantius
Or we could go back to an early Avernum mechanic of having to pay to spend skill points and that you could only do it in very few specific areas. I miss that.

That got dropped so you train up wherever and whenever you wanted to instead of trudging back to one of the few towns where you were allowed to train. It pretty much kicked in for BoA where you could train only in towns. By A4 you could train anywhere since the world was seamless.

You could do it that skill points are needed for trainers, but you can bypass other requirements for high level skills. Then you could have it that trainers can work even if you have already trained in that skill.

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No. "Trainers" refer to the people you can pay to increase a skill without using skill points, and that word has been used for that purpose pretty thoroughly here for the last five years. :-D

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It use to refer to people that ran the places in Exile where you could train for skills. That carried over through Avernum 3.

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Like I said trainers are not needed because we have skill points.

 

Gold could be used to bribe mayors to give you quests, buy horses, pay thugs and rogues to join you in an attack, help a poor camp of refugees etc. It doesn't all have to be about weapons and armor. Money could be as useful in Avadon as it is in the real world.

 

 

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Originally Posted By: VCH
Money could be as useful in Avadon as it is in the real world.

Paying the tax collector. frown

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Originally Posted By: Randomizer
Originally Posted By: VCH
Money could be as useful in Avadon as it is in the real world.

Paying the tax collector. frown


Yeah for sure! Maybe a tax could be automatically collected upon entering a town, say 1,000 gold

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Originally Posted By: Dantius
I do have to suspend disbelief that "I can pay this guy 200 pieces of eight and he'll suddenly improve my skill at shooting a bow instantaneously".


I always figure these guys are giving quick but very helpful tips. After all, I'm only gaining one skill point.

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Originally Posted By: Student of Trinity
Originally Posted By: Dantius
I do have to suspend disbelief that "I can pay this guy 200 pieces of eight and he'll suddenly improve my skill at shooting a bow instantaneously".
I always figure these guys are giving quick but very helpful tips. After all, I'm only gaining one skill point.
I always figured it wasn't instantaneous, and the game just wasn't bothering to show the boring weeks you spent practicing with the guy.

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Originally Posted By: ThirdParty
Originally Posted By: Student of Trinity
Originally Posted By: Dantius
I do have to suspend disbelief that "I can pay this guy 200 pieces of eight and he'll suddenly improve my skill at shooting a bow instantaneously".
I always figure these guys are giving quick but very helpful tips. After all, I'm only gaining one skill point.
I always figured it wasn't instantaneous, and the game just wasn't bothering to show the boring weeks you spent practicing with the guy.


Well, no time passes when you train (or at least no days pass) in the earlier Avernums or Geneforges that included a day counter.

Incidentally, I never figured out what the deal with the Geneforge day counter was. Did it do anything? And, more importantly, how did it even count days? Time spent playing the game? Zones traveled to?

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Originally Posted By: Dantius
Well, no time passes when you train (or at least no days pass) in the earlier Avernums or Geneforges that included a day counter.

Incidentally, I never figured out what the deal with the Geneforge day counter was. Did it do anything? And, more importantly, how did it even count days? Time spent playing the game? Zones traveled to?


I always just assumed that you trained for an hour intensively, enough to gain that one skill point. I believe that to be reasonable, as, after all, it is just one skill point.

As for the Geneforge day counter, it does nothing. Also, I'm fairly sure it's based on zone traveling, and not actual time.

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Originally Posted By: Goldenking
As for the Geneforge day counter, it does nothing.
So I noticed. When I first played the Geneforge games that had day counters, I kept worrying that I might run out of time; after the said day counters started ticking well into the hundreds with no ill effects, I decided I no longer cared.

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Perhaps the counter was a game idea that jeff never got around to actually initiating.

 

For training I've Never really been able to pin down a time, I mean I could see spending an hour learning a point in melee, but what about say creating a wingbolt, that ought to take quite a long while.

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As far as learning difficult magic and shaping, I always figured that the trainer had some magic way of transferring the information to you. It's not as good as spending weeks learning it the hard way, but it's war, and you're not really a shaper (in most games) anyway.

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Originally Posted By: Master1
As far as learning difficult magic and shaping, I always figured that the trainer had some magic way of transferring the information to you. It's not as good as spending weeks learning it the hard way, but it's war, and you're not really a shaper (in most games) anyway.


Well, in Geneforge at least, it does say that you were taught so that you can learn especially fast. That's usually in relation to reading books and digesting their information quickly, but I imagine the same applies to hands-on training, too.

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