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The Ratt

What is the importance of Scarabs

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See here.

 

Notice there is a four slot row specifically for scarabs, and two scarabs in the inventory. What do you think the Scarabs do/ are used for?

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Huh. My guess is they're some kind of modification. Possibly similar to charms or jewelry, but with four oddly placed slots. On the other hand, the slots aren't with the other equipment, so something else seems likely. Maybe they interact with the new skill system.

 

—Alorael, who will bring further wild speculation when he's less in his right mine. It's more exciting that way.

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Originally Posted By: There is no "I" in "me"
—Alorael, who will bring further wild speculation when he's less in his right mine. It's more exciting that way.


Claim-jumper! Stay out of my crystal mine!

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There is a beastmaster(ish) class so maybe a diffrent scarab allows you to summon diffrent types of monsters(creations, pets, what are we calling them?)

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Since this Black Fortress thing is supposed to be some sort of magical portal place, I'd guess that the scarabs have something to do with portals. Perhaps they're Avadon's equivalent of the amulet of recall, and... they each are specific to different parts of Linnaeus?

 

On the other hand, maybe they are tools used for assassination. Teleport in, use a poisonous scarab on some poor bloke, and teleport out? I doubt it, but it's possible.

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they're just costume jewellery, they don't actually do anything

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I've heard that the Scarab of Hotkofee opens up an easter egg-like scene with Redbeard. Don't know if there's any truth behind that rumor, though.

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The first thing that I thought of with the scarabs was that they reminded me of the brooches from A1.

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Originally Posted By: Matanbuchus
I've heard that the Scarab of Hotkofee opens up an easter egg-like scene with Redbeard. Don't know if there's any truth behind that rumor, though.


not that i'm complaining but when did you get unbanned

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Assuming the beetle-looking things at the top of the inventory window are the scarabs themselves, I note that they appear to be non-usable (which rules out the possibility that they cast spells) and non-stackable (which rules out the possibility that they are spell components consumed by player spells).

 

As I understand Jeff's game design philosophy, he doesn't want the player to be able to make horrible mistakes, so I doubt that the scarabs are plot-related or increase character growth or anything like that (since losing such items would be a horrible mistake).

 

So ... I'm guessing they're another kind of equipment, notwithstanding the placement. Maybe they'll differ from standard equipment in some way: e.g. by affecting skills instead of attributes, or by not contributing to encumbrance.

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Originally Posted By: CRISIS on INFINITE SLARTIES
They could also automatically activate status conditions, like bless or protection, while worn.


this is the best idea i've heard yet and i hope it's true

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Actually, that could work very nicely. Instead of regularly buffing before battles or frantically getting buffs set up during, you could just choose buffs you like, the catch being that of course there aren't enough slots for all the buffs you want.

 

—Alorael, who can only imagine that the endgame scarabs give you bless, haste, shield, and reduced bad breath. You can't have stinky exhalations during climactic final battles.

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There seems to be less inventory space than in previous Spiderweb games, so maybe scarabs act like trinkets? They took up a good amount of space by the end of Geneforge games, but I liked them. Maybe this is a streamlined version of them?

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The link shows two scarabs in inventory and not placed in the scarab slots. This seems to imply that you can't have more than 4 scarabs in effect at any one time.

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If they were like trinkets, that would mean you'd be forced to choose more carefully as opposed to just carrying around all of them. They could be a bigger variety of effects, too.

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What strikes me is that the character has two scarabs in his inventory but doesn't seem to have any equipped. At least, it looks like there aren't any equipped. There is a faded picture of a scarab in the equipment slot, but I don't think it's an actual scarab.

Anyway, unless the character just picked them up and hasn't had an opportunity to equip them, there may be a reason to not have scarabs equipped. It might be that they're consumed in some way when equipped.

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I think that if the scarabs provide blessings that they have to be balanced so they're probably not too powerful and the grayed out scarab is probably representing what you can equip as you probably can't equip 4 at a time until later in game or you do something special.

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Originally Posted By: once we were earth and salts
—Alorael, who can only imagine that the endgame scarabs give you bless, haste, shield, and reduced bad breath. You can't have stinky exhalations during climactic final battles.
Actually, it may help if you get close enough to your opponent. You shoot some bad breath at him/her/it, causing a split second of revulsion from your foe and allowing you a tiny window of opportunity to go in for the kill.

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The grey scarab in the scarabs area may mean that he only has 1 out of 4 unlocked or accessible. Maybe the character can unlock the other scarab slots by doing quests or gaining additional levels.

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To me, it seems most likely they are either a charm or a storage place for beasts to summon. Avadon looks to me like a singleton party throughout the game, so I'm leaning toward the latter.

 

Edit: I was stupid, but came up with a slightly intelligent comment. I thought it better than double posting.

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Originally Posted By: waterplant
Originally Posted By: Txgangsta
Edit: I'm stupid. Nevermind.


Me too. Don't let it get you down.
Stop lying to yourselves, both of you! tongue

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Originally Posted By: Txgangsta
Avadon looks to me like a singleton party throughout the game, so I'm leaning toward the latter.


Nope. Party of three.

—Alorael, who could still see that as a use for the scarabs. There is a summoning class, and scarabs are in many ways similar to tiny red and white balls.

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Maybe scarabs have different effects depending on your class. Maybe for the summoner scarabs mean you can summon more creatures, for the mage it gives access to different spells, and for the warrior it adds effects to your attacks.

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Originally Posted By: Absolutely perfect, peerless PDN
There is a summoning class, and scarabs are in many ways similar to tiny red and white balls.

There is probably not a "summoning class." Jeff commented that the shaman might summon beasts to aid her, while he was talking about different classes using different tactics. That hardly means the class revolves around summoning.

The four classes are transparently a facelift of good old fighter/mage/cleric/thief. We have also already seen recycled spells in the screenshots (Daze and Charm Foe). So I think it is a safe bet that the "shaman" will have a variety of spells, mostly the sort of things Jeff has put in Priest Spells in the past.

My high hope for his comment is that it means the shaman won't have Flamestrike, Divine Retribution, or other attack spells that are comparable to or better than sorceror attack spells.

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Originally Posted By: CRISIS on INFINITE SLARTIES
The four classes are transparently a facelift of good old fighter/mage/cleric/thief. We have also already seen recycled spells in the screenshots (Daze and Charm Foe). So I think it is a safe bet that the "shaman" will have a variety of spells, mostly the sort of things Jeff has put in Priest Spells in the past.


Because, you know, it's totally not like Jeff has designed many, many games revolving around mage/warrior/summoner. Oh no! No, Jeff has gone fighter/mage/priest/rogue all the way, in every game he has ever made! [/sarcasm]

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Originally Posted By: Celtic Minstrel
To be fair, he has less Geneforge games than non-Geneforge games. tongue


Well, if you drop the sarcasm, what I was trying to say is that he's made five games (six...? Does Nethergate have priest spells?) where he completely ditched the whole "priest" concept, and that worked out just fine. If anything, he'll be trying to break somewhat witht the standard "Avernum/Exile" mold and come up with a new system, and I see no reason why priest spells shouldn't be axed in favor of a more Geneforge-style spell distribution (4 schools instead of 2), or even Nethergate if he wanted to go really overboard(NG had how many schools? 6? Beast, War, Spirit, Nether, and what am I forgetting?)

Of course, you could play devil's advocate and say that he'd want a complete break with the past. Entirely possible, and it'd be a refreshing change. So I think that the only conclusion we can draw is that we can draw no conclusions.

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Well, what we're really talking about here is class/skill mechanics design. While there have been some wrinkles here and there, he's basically done this three or four times: Exile, Nethergate, Geneforge, and you might count Avernum -- you might not since most of its system derives from either Exile or Nethergate.

 

While Jeff has never used F/M/C/T classes -- and indeed has railed against the whole idea of having classes at some length -- he has always marked his skills as F/M/C/T. Exile had fighting skills, magical skills, and "Other Skills" which including picking locks, disarming traps, assassination, item lore, and luck -- all skills traditionally in the rogue's province. Nethergate, Avernum, and Geneforge all inherited this divison of skills. Avernum added prestige skills and Geneforge adding shaping skills, but you can always find a skill to open locked doors in the thief section, a skill to improve your hit rate in the fighter section, etc.

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Originally Posted By: Dantius
(six...? Does Nethergate have priest spells?)
Um, every spell in Nethergate is a priest spell. :-)

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Every spell in Nethergate is a druid spell. smile

 

This is the first game where he has broken out the thief skills into a separate class instead of just a skill set where the mage spells could overlap them.

 

Originally Posted By: Jeff Vogel
For example, a shadowwalker can duck in, do a lot of damage very quickly, and use evasive abilities to confuse foes and leap to safety.

 

It seems from his interview at rpgcodex that a thief class would have stealth skills to infiltrate an enemy stronghold and attack before being detected. In all the other games any character could do this with the Geneforge agent being the closest to this description.

 

Shaman class seems to be a cross between priest and summoning creatures to provide the attack.

 

What I know will be annoying is that with scripted fights Jeff has set it up so you have to use all 4 classes at least once for a fight. There's nothing like being forced down a highly linear path in how to fight to irritate the players. I'm hoping that somewhere along the way he makes it so you can get through the game with any combination and no forced choices.

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Originally Posted By: Randomizer
Every spell in Nethergate is a druid spell. smile

This is the first game where he has broken out the thief skills into a separate class instead of just a skill set where the mage spells could overlap them.

Originally Posted By: Jeff Vogel
For example, a shadowwalker can duck in, do a lot of damage very quickly, and use evasive abilities to confuse foes and leap to safety.


It seems from his interview at rpgcodex that a thief class would have stealth skills to infiltrate an enemy stronghold and attack before being detected. In all the other games any character could do this with the Geneforge agent being the closest to this description.

Shaman class seems to be a cross between priest and summoning creatures to provide the attack.

What I know will be annoying is that with scripted fights Jeff has set it up so you have to use all 4 classes at least once for a fight. There's nothing like being forced down a highly linear path in how to fight to irritate the players. I'm hoping that somewhere along the way he makes it so you can get through the game with any combination and no forced choices.



I'm sure you can make it through with any combo. But there will be easier ways to get through certain fights. That is perfectly reasonable.

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Or, the people that join your party could also be working for Red Beard, and after certain points are reached they leave your party to do other missions, and you are therefore nudged towards taking someone else into your party. Or Red Beard could just force you to take someone into your party.

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Jeff has made it sound very much like your party composition is at all times up to you.

 

—Alorael, who still sincerely hopes that Jeff has learned from Bioware (and, to an extent, Geneforge) and will have non-main characters gain levels tied to the main character's.

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