Geneforge 1 - are canisters only way to raise most spells/creatures?

[dave s]

Everyone is telling me to be careful, the canisters are changing me. But is there another way to gain levels in creatures and spells? I know skills get various raises through quests and books, but spells and creatures?

[Triumph]

Not in Geneforge 1. There are one or two exceptions...the servant mind in the school can give you a level of...some spell, but for the most part the only way get to get spells and abilities is canisters. There's no penalty, and it makes no difference if you don't use any canisters (I remember someone playing through without canisters to find out). It's only in later games (especially G2, G3, and G4) that canister use has negative consequences.

[Geneforgeisformeyukkyu]

Originally Posted By: Triumph

Not in Geneforge 1. There are one or two exceptions...the servant mind in the school can give you a level of...some spell, but for the most part the only way get to get spells and abilities is canisters. There's no penalty, and it makes no difference if you don't use any canisters (I remember someone playing through without canisters to find out). It's only in later games (especially G2, G3, and G4) that canister use has negative consequences.

Just like most other geneforge games, your ending is affected by the amount of canisters you used. I believe you get a horrible ending if you used too many canisters in geneforge 1.

[Triumph]

Really? In G1? Huh.

[Dikiyoba]

You get a horrible ending if you use the Geneforge (for some definition of horrible), but there's no penalty for using canisters in the G1 ending.

 

Dikiyoba.

[Dantius]

Originally Posted By: Dikiyoba

You get a horrible ending if you use the Geneforge (for some definition of horrible), but there's no penalty for using canisters in the G1 ending.

Dikiyoba.

If by "horrible" you mean

Click to reveal..

you become an nigh-immortal demigod

, then yes, you do.

[Geneforgeisformeyukkyu]

Originally Posted By: Dantius

Originally Posted By: Dikiyoba

You get a horrible ending if you use the Geneforge (for some definition of horrible), but there's no penalty for using canisters in the G1 ending.

Dikiyoba.

If by "horrible" you mean

Click to reveal..

you become an nigh-immortal demigod

, then yes, you do.

You are also rejected by your fellow men D: though.

[Hypnotic]

If you want to do a no canister play through for whatever reason, you'd be best as a Guardian, you can still shape (But only 1 creature), and still have good Meele.

 

I don't think the endings change, just dialog within the game at certain points.

[Drakon Sssharxx]

The endings change in G2+.

 

Sharx

[Shaper Shaper]

Sometimes you will get too angry, lose control, and go into fights that you might not want to go into if you use too many canisters.

[Dikiyoba]

That happens once in G1, and it's really easy to avoid triggering it.

 

Dikiyoba.

[Triumph]

Originally Posted By: Dikiyoba

That happens once in G1, and it's really easy to avoid triggering it.

Dikiyoba.

Just curious, when does canister rage occur in G1? I haven't seen it yet and I'm all the way to the Central Labs...

[Dikiyoba]

Dikiyoba thinks there's a dialogue trigger in the Tribal Woods. Dikiyoba might not be remembering correctly, though.

[Tracer Bullet]

I thought the Tribal Woods incident was determined by your allegiance.

[Mod.]

Thought it was just a leadership skill thing. Point at the roamer with enough leadership and they like you.

[Dikiyoba]

Could be. It's been a long time. All I remember is that you can do something to get the whole area angry at you, and I don't think it's just trespassing. There are a lot of ways to get them to allow you in, though.

 

Dikiyoba.

[Tracer Bullet]

I'm pretty sure the Tribal Woods people only attack you if you are a Taker. Or was that a different area?

[Akharri Blaze]

I think It was only If you were a taker. In my run-throughs they only acted differently when I played as a taker, But it might have had something to do with a different aspect of the game.

 

I'm overall quite confused

[mauvebutterfly]

I highly doubt this game keeps track of canister consumption. I tried doing a no-canister play-through and was still able to trigger canister-related dialogue options. The learned servile (Learned Pinner?) in Vakkiri for example eventually tells you that you have noticeably changed since your first arrival in Vakkiri. I suspect that once you've travelled to a certain area within the game, it simply sets a flag somewhere while making the assumption that you've used every canister along the way.

 

As mentioned earlier, using the geneforge itself will change the game. Canister usage probably won't affect anything, since the game assumes that you'd just use them all anyway.

[Dikiyoba]

Originally Posted By: mauvebutterfly

I suspect that once you've travelled to a certain area within the game, it simply sets a flag somewhere while making the assumption that you've used every canister along the way.

Interesting. Did you make it into the Quiet Marshes, by any chance?

Dikiyoba.

[Slarzahl]

Yeah, canister use does not trigger anything in G1. It was a novelty when it was tracked in G2, and a dialogue at Freegate makes a big deal of this as I recall

[mauvebutterfly]

Originally Posted By: Pachycephalosaurus

Originally Posted By: mauvebutterfly

I suspect that once you've travelled to a certain area within the game, it simply sets a flag somewhere while making the assumption that you've used every canister along the way.

Interesting. Did you make it into the Quiet Marshes, by any chance?

Dikiyoba.

I noticed it when I returned to Vakkiri from The Tombs, but the dialogue may have been triggered from the Quiet Marshes or any intervening local.

[Dikiyoba]

I vaguely remembered a no-canister cheat-through where I didn't have the freak out while passing through the Quiet Marshes and assumed there was some sort of check for the number of canisters used, but it simply could have been not traveling to the right zone as you suggest.

 

Dikiyoba.

[Slarzahl]

Whoops, you're right! In G1, the quiet marshes freakout has this condition:

 

get_sdf(100,0) > 5

 

And the G1 canister script already has the code to increment said SDF. It just isn't used for anything except the quiet marshes dialogue, plus one slight dialogue difference with Anya, I believe.

[mauvebutterfly]

I guess checking the scripts would have been a more definitive way of determining this.

 

I was confused by your reference to the Quiet Marshes, but I'd forgotten that there was a canister encounter there. I guess Jeff had the idea about canisters right off the bat, but didn't start implementing it consistently until G2.

 

I guess my memory regarding Learned Pinner was faulty. I was sure that I hadn't used canisters, but the scripts suggest that the dialogue requires canister use. Again, it's SDF (100,0) and 5 seems to be the threshold.

 

 

 

Click to reveal..

begintalknode 32;

state = 34;

personality = 0;

nextstate = -1;

condition = get_sdf(100,0) > 0;

question = "I have used one. It changed me. It made me more powerful. Are they dangerous?";

text1 = "_I do not know. I see nothing unusual about you. If you use more of them, I can look at you and see if I see a change._";

text3 = "She inspects you closely. She walks around you, looking at you from all angles. She looks concerned. After a minute, she gets a fragment of mirror and shows you your face in it. _Look in this. What it means, I cannot say._";

text4 = "You look different. You look stronger and more self-assured, but strange. There is a growing confidence there, so strong as to verge on mania. The change had happened so slowly you hadn't noticed it, but it is definitely there.";

action = DEP_ON_SDF 100 0 5;

 

 

If someone would kindly tell me how to put spoiler tags on that to tidy up my post, I would greatly appreciate it.

 

?

[Dikiyoba]

You had the right tags, but the text you want to hide goes between them.

 

Code:

Like so.

Dikiyoba.

[The Mystic]

Originally Posted By: mauvebutterfly

I was sure that I hadn't used canisters, but the scripts suggest that the dialogue requires canister use. Again, it's SDF (100,0)and 5 seems to be the threshold.

Yes, G1 uses SDF(100,0) to track canister use. And yes, 5 is the threshold for that particular piece of dialogue script.

G1 doesn't seem to do too much regarding your canister usage, since your main objective is to leave the island and get back to civilization.

[ItwasTed]

I didn't know anything about the canisters having any sort of consequences. Thanks for the information. The canister rage doesn't seem like a big deal. What sort of ending to you get if you don't use the canisters at all?

[The Mystic]

In G1, canister rage isn't a big deal; it only comes into play in G2 and later.

 

I don't know what the zero-canister ending looks like, but I know how you can find out. Just before you leave the island, you can open the cheat dialog and type the following code:

Click to reveal..

SDF 100 0 0

[Mod.]

Isn't it

Click to reveal..

SDF 100 4 0

not

Click to reveal..

SDF 100 0 0

?

[The Mystic]

It all depends on which game you're playing. For G1, the SDF is (100,0); for G3 & G4, the SDF is (100,4). Just look up the "canister.txt" script for the appropriate game, and see what flag is incremented when a canister is used; it's different in almost every game.

 

So, in short, yes, I posted the right code for G1.

[AethirWeb]

I don't get why Canisters make you so angry. I know from the description they're like small doses of geneforge in a jar literally. But how come it doesn't make you feel other emotions? Like strange depression or etc.

[MrRoivas]

Because the game is playing on the notion that with great power comes great corruption. Or as TVtropes puts it, with great power comes great insanity.

 

Ain't no thing as a free lunch, etc. Also has some similarities to how drugs, particularly psychedelic drugs can alter the brain.

[Yuna Corne]

I know there was an area where if you went in after, you'd end up freaking out and killing everyone. I don't remember if it was too many canisters that did this, however - it was probably using the Geneforge. The area? Oh, right.

 

Click to reveal..

That would be where Trajkov's little rebels are hiding away in their caves.

[Demon Blade]

I don't know why Trajkov's areas don't have any canisters, the Sholai use them all, right ?

[The Reincarnated Baron von Steuben]

Originally Posted By: Demon Blade

I don't know why Trajkov's areas don't have any canisters, the Sholai use them all, right ?

Serviles are unable to use canisters as it would kill them. Shapers and Outsiders (for example Trajkov) are both Human so they both should be able to use canisters.

[The Mystic]

Originally Posted By: Demon Blade

I don't know why Trajkov's areas don't have any canisters, the Sholai use them all, right ?

Shortly after reaching Sucia island, the Sholai quickly become canister junkies. Consequently, by the time you reach Trajkov, nearly all the canisters will have been used. There are still some, but you have to hunt for them.