About changing water terrain.

[Thaluikhain]

My scenario (slowly) is getting made, sort of, but I have another question.

 

When swapping terrain with edges (such as the water terrain, which gives you a grassy coastline on the edge of the water area), is there a way for the edges to automatically be swapped when I swap the rest of the water, and back again?

 

I was thinking of swapping the above ground water to the cave water and back, but if I had to work out the locations and code for all the coast myself when swapping back, it'd take forever and I'd likely stuff the whole thing uo.

[Celtic Minstrel]

Sorry, there's no easy way to do this. I don't think the game even knows that the water edges are sort of part of the water.

[Thaluikhain]

Hmmm...in that case, I might swap the coastline terrain for normal water before I do anything, and then go from there...or just ignore the coast when it changes back.

 

Also, can muck about with the automatic changing of terrain edges the editor does, I suppose.

[Ishad Nha]

Automatic placement of terrain might help in the Editor but the game itself presumably has no idea of this.

You could always try moving the party to a new town with the different water terrain.

Other than that you will need a special node for "change terrain" for every type of surface water terrain occuring. Around thirteen nodes.

[Thaluikhain]

Originally Posted By: Ishad Nha

You could always try moving the party to a new town with the different water terrain.

Yeah, I thought of that, but I don't like doing that, losing the map and all.

Originally Posted By: Ishad Nha

Other than that you will need a special node for "change terrain" for every type of surface water terrain occuring. Around thirteen nodes.

Worse changing back, though, as there isn't an underground water coastline.


I eventually realised that I could just make a new water terrain without a coastline and avoid all the hassle, so that's what I'm doing.


Oh, another question...the "change when walk" thing for terrain types, is that when the party walks on it, or when anyone walks on it? Also, if you have a special node come up due to the general timer, does that come up before or after the terrain is changed? I was thinking of the terrain changing under the party, but also clearing away previously changing terrain they've already walked on at the same time.

[keira]

Just when the party walks. Monsters don't trigger anything at all, iirc.

[Celtic Minstrel]

As Ishad says, the scenario editor knows how to automatically add shoreline to surface water, but the game itself doesn't.

 

Originally Posted By: Thaluikhain

I eventually realised that I could just make a new water terrain without a coastline and avoid all the hassle, so that's what I'm doing.

Yes, that would work.

 

Note that the game draws a cave floor shoreline on underground water, though. The original game never updated these shorelines to reflect terrain changes, but I think later versions will.

 

[EDIT] Actually, instead of creating a separate terrain type for water without shore, you could just place your water as normal, then replace all the shore tiles with one of the four objects on water (rock, small island, or bridge). Then you can use the "replace all" feature on the Editor toolbar to replace all small islands (or whichever object you choose) with the plain water tile. This will override the Editor's automatic shorelines. Note, however, that the shorelines will be instantly restored any time you edit anything in the water, so only do this when you've finished creating the patch of water and everything on it.

[/EDIT]

 

Originally Posted By: Thaluikhain

Oh, another question...the "change when walk" thing for terrain types, is that when the party walks on it, or when anyone walks on it?

Doors have the property, right? I know monsters can open doors, so probably when anything can walk on it. However, if the space is passable, you could change its type to "Clear, Special", which will prevent monsters from entering. You can't do this if it's impassable, though, such as a closed door.

 

Originally Posted By: Thaluikhain

Also, if you have a special node come up due to the general timer, does that come up before or after the terrain is changed? I was thinking of the terrain changing under the party, but also clearing away previously changing terrain they've already walked on at the same time.

I'm not really sure what you mean here. In particular, there's a missing link between the general timer and the terrain change. How does one apply the other?

[Thaluikhain]

Originally Posted By: Celtic Minstrel

I'm not really sure what you mean here. In particular, there's a missing link between the general timer and the terrain change. How does one apply the other?

The idea was, there'd be a large patch made up of terrain that changed when the party stepped on it, but each tile would also change back as soon as they stepped off it.

To do this, I thought of using the general timer to activate a special node each turn, that changed all the terrain that had been changed by people walking on it, back into the original terrain.

But this would only work if the special node was activated to change last turn's terrian back to what it was, before this turn's terrain was changed by the party stepping on it, otherwise you'd not see the terrain changing at all.

Also, if the party stood still, the terrain would change back underneath them, I guess...I suppose instead of using the timer, I could put a special node on each individual tile, that is activated when they step on it, I guess.

[Celtic Minstrel]

Originally Posted By: Thaluikhain

The idea was, there'd be a large patch made up of terrain that changed when the party stepped on it, but each tile would also change back as soon as they stepped off it.

Kind of like the bed graphics?

Originally Posted By: Thaluikhain

To do this, I thought of using the general timer to activate a special node each turn, that changed all the terrain that had been changed by people walking on it, back into the original terrain.

But this would only work if the special node was activated to change last turn's terrian back to what it was, before this turn's terrain was changed by the party stepping on it, otherwise you'd not see the terrain changing at all.

It sounds like it could work — try it?

Originally Posted By: Thaluikhain

Also, if the party stood still, the terrain would change back underneath them, I guess...I suppose instead of using the timer, I could put a special node on each individual tile, that is activated when they step on it, I guess.

That would eat up your node limit pretty quickly.

[Thaluikhain]

Originally Posted By: Celtic Minstrel

Kind of like the bed graphics?

Something like that...though, you also don't see the normal PC graphic whent that happens, do you?

Originally Posted By: Celtic Minstrel

It sounds like it could work — try it?

That'd be the next sep, yeah. It's just that if it doesn't work, nothing at all will happen...I won't be able to see if the idea's not going to work, or it's just me getting something wrong.

Originally Posted By: Celtic Minstrel

That would eat up your node limit pretty quickly.

You can't just have one node, triggered by walking into several locations?

[Ishad Nha]

"You can't just have one node, triggered by walking into several locations?"

Yes, you can but in any town there are only 50 possible individual squares that can contain a placed special.

[Lilith]

Plus, remember that there's no "change the space the party's standing on" node: if you're changing the terrain through nodes, you have to set coordinates. You'd need a different node for each tile, if you were going to do it that way.

[Celtic Minstrel]

Originally Posted By: Thaluikhain

You can't just have one node, triggered by walking into several locations?

I meant the fact that, as Ishad pointed out, you can only place 50 nodes in any town. This limit will be removed eventually, but that hasn't happened yet.

[Thaluikhain]

Originally Posted By: Lilith

Plus, remember that there's no "change the space the party's standing on" node: if you're changing the terrain through nodes, you have to set coordinates. You'd need a different node for each tile, if you were going to do it that way.

I meant a "change all of X terrain" thing, with X being the terrain that gets changed by walking on it. So until you trigger the node by stepping on something else, nothing happens to change it back.

Originally Posted By: Celtic Minstrel

I meant the fact that, as Ishad pointed out, you can only place 50 nodes in any town. This limit will be removed eventually, but that hasn't happened yet.

Ah, I see.

[Ishad Nha]

You could use Swap Rectangle Terrain with the top square in the upper left corner of the town (0,0) and the bottom square in the lower right corner (#,#). (Where # is 31, 47 or 63, according to the size of the town.) That would affect all squares in the town.