Reflections on A6 (SPOILERS)

[Jerakeen]

You run across a lot of their bones and equipment.

[Spidweb]

Originally Posted By: VCH

I think Jeff should have placed more encounters with gropus of adventurers in the game. Isn't Avernum full of adventurers? Why do you not meet any then?

You know all those bodies you're always finding in the back tunnels with tiny chunks of loot on them? There's your other adventurers.

Also, every pile of bones and skulls.

- Jeff Vogel

[Student of Trinity]

Apparently the PCs are not typical adventurers, because the typical adventurer is a guy who takes on a Hraithe Lord with leather armor and a bronze shortsword.

[Jerakeen]

Hey, not everyone has a previous save to go back to when they wander into someplace they shouldn't.

 

Or the Voice of Vogel to tell them "This might be very dangerous..."

[*i]

Maybe their equipment gets destroyed. Meh, trying to explain away game balance...just accept it.

[Dantius]

Originally Posted By: The Turtle Moves

Or the Voice of Vogel to tell them "This might be very dangerous..."

Our god will tell us...

Originally Posted By: God

This is a higher level challenge area. You might want to come back later, when you are stronger...

[VCH]

Originally Posted By: Spidweb

Originally Posted By: VCH

I think Jeff should have placed more encounters with gropus of adventurers in the game. Isn't Avernum full of adventurers? Why do you not meet any then?

You know all those bodies you're always finding in the back tunnels with tiny chunks of loot on them? There's your other adventurers.

Also, every pile of bones and skulls.

- Jeff Vogel

They can't all be dead though. There must be some that are still wandering around. I guess Vanderin counts as one of the living.

[Jerakeen]

Seems to me there were a couple in one of the taverns early in the game. They didn't want to talk.

[Randomizer]

You encounter a few in the Honeycomb area, but they are now called bandits.

[jlsgaladriel]

Originally Posted By: "Jeff"

You know all those bodies you're always finding in the back tunnels with tiny chunks of loot on them? There's your other adventurers.

Also, every pile of bones and skulls.

::snicker::

[Vicheron]

Avernum has hundreds of thousands of citizens but only about 0.1% of them are in the game. Even if 1% of Avernum's population are adventurers, 0.1% of that is like 5, which is about the size of your party.

[Alorael at Large]

Nonsense. That might work at the beginning of the game, but later you're equipped with powerful loot. Adventurers should be coming out of the cavewoodwork to try to cajole you into sharing. And if that fails, they should be launching suicidal and psychopathic assaults.

 

—Alorael, who wonders if priests have developed a cure for itinerant sociopathy disorder. They really ought to work on that.

[Student of Trinity]

Nah, they've been co-opted, selling spells and healing for exorbitant amounts. "Sure, I'll make your Mass Cure a whopping 2% better, for only 1200 coins!"

 

Better than Scientology, though, I suppose.

[Eigenvalue]

 

I kinda had a feeling that the guy with the Demonslayer was from one of the previous Avernum games. And, maybe, also the group with the orb of Thralni which did not survive the fall.

 

This is what I really likes in A6 - in the description of some (earlier?) quests one can see that your group is only sent to the mission because the previous (more experienced) group failed.

 

I also don't so much believe that combat-wise any of my Avernum groups were so good. Sure, when you jump-attack 4 on 1, having previously hasted, shielded, summoned allies and whatnot, you can beat even the best of them; how about fighting fairly one-on-one without previous preparations, potions or wands up your sleeve?

[BathosAndPathos]

Originally Posted By: Lilith

Originally Posted By: Vicheron

You have to remember that these games are all pretty much based on Dungeons and Dragons. In D&D, already established gods and godlike beings are always working behind the scenes. They aren't doing nothing, they're too busy try to scry their rivals to look for signs of weakness and plotting ways to destroy them while at the same time protecting themselves from their enemies, who are pretty much doing the same thing. Those powerful beings are always in some kind of stalemate where they can never really get a permanent advantage over the other. The players are new powers there to tip the balance.

Maybe if you're talking about Greyhawk or Forgotten Realms. There are other settings, like Eberron, where it's quite possible for the PCs to actually be among the biggest badasses in the world by the time they achieve a reasonably high experience level. Which is as it should be: most people have already had their fill of working for someone bigger and more important than themselves in real life.

Plus, Jeff wasn't trying to recreate D&D: far from it. If you read the release notes for Exile 1, they include his design philosophy, which starts out with "Rule 1: NO ELVES."

And where may we find these release notes? =p

[Acky]

I suppose this is a good thread to post my own reflections in.

 

First of all, I'm happy to say that I got more than my money's worth. Jeff provided a quality story and has gotten much better at balancing with his new(ish) engine. The missions were all very interesting, and the game itself was my longest playthroughs of any Avernum, Nethergate, BoX or Geneforgegame - ended at 33hrs. I still missed a few side quests, so a second playthrough is already in the works.

 

The game starts off great. I enjoyed the whole soldier theme that started in A5 (including G5, and I'm willing to bet that Jeff's new game will have the players as soldiers as well, but I digress). The world feels more real, tough, and darker then the older games were. I could see that I was in a living, breathing country, with events moving at a rapid pace. The promotion system was pretty cool - I think it was a great way to show how your characters were gradually gaining recognition of their deeds for Avernum. As I played through the game, I could see what the Blight was doing to the caves, how Avernum has changed from a dangerous frontier into a civilized nation, and back into a violent wilderness. The Triad were also great villains, although the Impaler could have gotten some more airtime.

 

As I played through the first 3 fourths of the game, the game was only getting better and better with each new area unlocked. I liked all the little monsters and mini-bosses that were kept aside to kill in the future. This, plus the plethora of sidequest after sidequest, gave the game a slew of content, and chances for you to build up your party, to get new items, and to experience Avernum to its fullest.

 

However, as I gradually went on, I came to realize I have 2 problems with the game. All my main enemies had been already defeated. Specifically, I'm talking about the Shadow. I do not think we should have killed him that soon in the game. When the Triad was killed, I lost a lot of interest in the main plot, and for me, the game just became one sidequest after another. There was no moon to my sun, so to speak. No force I was ultimately working against. No overall goal that I was working toward. This is why I feel we should have gotten another Enemy. Some sort of Force or Group that was responsible for most of the problems afflicting Avernum; someone or something we could point at and exclaim "It was you!" Without a clear antagonist, the game felt.....weakened. I think I would liked at least to have the Shadow keep fighting against me, all the way up to when you meet Melcanchion. He was an interesting enemy, and he made me feel like the Horde was taking notice of me, that what I was doing was having an effect. Without a strong, clear Antagonist to go against, the game got flatter by the 4th quarter.

 

Now, that's not to say I didn't enjoy the 4th quarter of the game. I did; like I said, I got more then my money's worth. But I hope Jeff doesn't have so much rollick in his next series. I enjoyed the the more linear based passed games that featured a little exploration, but still felt directed.

 

My other problem were the endings themselves. They just weren't satisfying to me. Being stuck in Upper Avernum helping a bunch of cowards resettle was not what I wanted to end the game as. I wanted to keep fighting! To help save my beloved homeland! To be there and defend the last of her lands! I didn't see the logic of keeping your most experienced soldiers up on the surface when they could be fighting below in Avernum. I suppose it kind of makes sense from the soldier-theme perspective, that the Generals wanted you up here to help inspire some hope or whatever. But the game should have provided more reasons for your posting to peaceful lands (compared to Avernum).

 

Also, I didn't like how the reason for the Blight was never given. Nor did I like how despite any quests I may have done, it made no effect on the ending. The "stuff happens" card was used here, and ultimately I was disappointed. If I had gathered all of Asta's mushrooms, I should have at least gotten, "Although the Blight is never completely erased, stronger variants of Mushrooms are grown. The Avernites will never be able to grow large mushroom crops again, but at least they will be able to live in comfort."

 

One of the things I really loved about the game though, the real icing on the cake, was that Avernum was not the same nation it once was. It wasn't the country of misfits and rogues that killed Emperor Hawthorne and created a nation out of blood and stone, as Solberg last said before he sacrificed himself. Think about it; how often did you run into real Avernites, born in the caves? The game makes a subtle point at least once, where you meet a native Avernite, and it says that it's pretty rare to see one anymore. It was definitely filled with too many Empire fortune hunters looking for crystals. If I was Starrus, I would have put strict immigration limits on Avernum, only allowing wizards, wealthy merchants, and the occasional Adventurer into Avernum. That way, the populace would remain mostly Avernite, which would have helped with the loyalty of its citizens. I mean, how many true Avernites would not stand and fight and try to survive but rather flee to the surface?

 

But overall, I liked this game a lot. Not as much as A5, but still, it was a memorable game experience, and provided at least mediocre closure to the series. Now, when will A7 be coming out....

[Dikiyoba]

Originally Posted By: Ackrovan

Also, I didn't like how the reason for the Blight was never given.

It's made clear that the Blight is a naturally occuring disease. Asta and a few other sage-y types pretty much state that similar outbreaks had been seen on a lesser scale before and that the Blight was inevitable sooner or later.

Dikiyoba is so very glad that is the case. Having yet another created plague in the Avernum universe would have been hair-pullingly frustrating.

[lampshade]

I enjoyed most of it while trudging through.

 

The biggest and most enjoyable twist I've had in the whole series, is when I first met Melanchion and learned the whole deal. It put a whole new interesting perspective on saving Avernum. However, I was a bit disappointed you didn't get to do enough with him.

[Øther]

Melanchion also gave the best rewards in theme. It's a really pity that I never was able to take the time and enjoy them fully, since I got them right around the end.