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A6 -This game is many times as hard as it should be.


blackwight

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I'm playing on it's easiest setting-- and after massively editing all the players (8 endurance + many others) each, quests that should be easy are still unplayable despite many tries. Repeatedly editing the players really saps my interest in the game!

 

An easy setting should be literally *easy* to all but the most inept player. Characters should almost never die on the easiest setting, even when the game is played badly.

 

Avernum 5 was, imho, at least twice as hard as it should have been on it's normal setting, but I didn't have to edit the characters to get to the finish line. I should add that was without the help from Gladwell; I set the drake free. The game would have been a good bit more enjoyable at half the difficulty. Let the masochists turn it up if they want to.

 

I've been playing games of this genre since Leather Goddesses of Phobos. I am not inept. Is there some trick or point that I'm missing? I've noticed that skribbane is used by the other players, something that I would not have considered.

 

Any help would be appreciated, or better yet, an update with big adjustments in it from our Mr. Vogel.

 

Chris

 

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This game went through extensive testing and while the initial testers were almost all insane powergamers, Jeff significantly revised the game to make it easier after finding that the later testers were having trouble. Except for a few areas in the Great Cave, the game is designed to be easy on normal for even a poorly built party.

 

There is a significant increase in difficulty as you get to the Eastern Gallery, but most problems occur if you are doing areas before you should. Jeff increased monster experience to compensate for players that don't do all the optional quests to build up their characters.

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It's hard to give you advice without more detail. What fights in particular are you having trouble with? How is your party built? What tactics are you using in combat? How far along in the game are you? There are some areas that aren't intended to be cleared out when you first reach them, so if you have trouble with an area you can always leave and come back. Most of the quests that advance the main plot aren't too difficult (at least, not early on).

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I thought A6 was the most accessible Avernum yet. I'm no RPG powergamer by any means, often finding myself drafting unwinable parties in A-5. I've narry had a problem so far in A6, save for entering the occasional battle with a complete lack of strategy. 20 hours in I've not had to retry any battle more than 3 times, and I wouldn't say I have a fantastically built party.

 

I haven't been using skribbane.

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Originally Posted By: blackwight
"I find Easy mode Hard."


I'm not mocking you. It's just that I find Hard mode, well, pretty hard, but I didn't think Normal was bad. I can't imagine Easy being anything but... easy. Sure I lost my mage once by casting that icy rain on a pack of undead (double fail), and I've died MANY times for any number of reasons, but I've discovered that there are quests you can and should put off if you don't like dying. There are also some fun tactics you could try, like healing. I've lost count of how many times I've had to do that.

Are you SURE you saved the game on Easy mode?
Also, invest wisely in skills. Don't split skill points between Slings and Javelins. Romans should only use the latter, and you can always invest in Roman Training to increase your damage output, too.
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The game is certainly not easy. You need to optimize carefully your build or you'll get beaten very often in the mid/endgame.

 

I've played A1-A3 and they were much easier, you could use 4 mage-priests and blast your way through anything on torment, not here. Also magic and prayer skills do NOT raise your mana! This was a huge difference with the original trilogy (dont know about A4, A5, havent played them)

 

Warriors suck until the end of the game where you get some super weapons (pole) that make them mean.

 

You most consistent source of damage are mages. Also use the mage summon spells heavily.

 

I use one warrior-meatshield-priest, 2 mages, 1 full time priest, worked fine to beat the game on medium, but it wasn't a breeze. This is playing to win reasonably fast, doing some sidequests but focusing mostly on the main ones.

 

Also hang on to your scrolls-wands-potions! Some of these are essential for winning. Most important are energy potions and scrolls of speed (actually increase your action points unlike the haste spell). Mass madness is great in the middle game.

 

I used scribbane 4-5 times in the hard fights (works similar to a scroll of speed), pretty useful replacement for the much rarer scrolls of speed.

 

Don't use it more than 5 times, after just 4-5 uses its benefits are very short (hastes you for only a turn or two). Plus you risk getting the withdrawal symptoms (not very bad anyway).

 

In group battles focus on keeping people alive.

 

Anyway this is by far the best Avernum of all time, HUGE and very diverse, great quests, challenging, a wonderful game!

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Originally Posted By: The_Najdorf
Warriors suck until the end of the game where you get some super weapons (pole) that make them mean.

You most consistent source of damage are mages. Also use the mage summon spells heavily.

The first just isn't true. I addressed this a bit in your topic about warrior builds, but they should not be useless, and poles are not, in fact, the optimal way to do damage, although they shouldn't be terrible either.

Mages are a more reliable way to deal immense damage, but unless you want to use energy potions constantly you'll have to rely on warriors sometimes, especially in minor fights and even more especially in long, grueling endurance slogs.

—Alorael, who believes that "Easy is really easy" is in fact the design intention of the game. He'll second the request for your party build information.
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Thanks for the replies.

 

I have completed every mission I've found, including all 3 from Meryhew. Of course I cherry-pick them as best I can. I've ignored a few quests, such as 'The Dark Spiral' and 'Ogre Treachery!'. My current mission from Levitt is 'Slay Ghavassa-Oss'. I have 19 current quests.

 

My characters average level 30. I'm using the default party, I have 1 mage and 1 priest and 2 fighters. Everyone is adequately equipped with the spoils of the quests so far.

 

Undoable:

 

The eye cultists: after trying several times, I increased my fighter's intelligence to 10 each; otherwise the eyebeast can control them without resistance. Casting 'Ward of Thoughts' had no noticeable effect. There was no other way to do it. It was easy after editing.

 

The Aranea Queen. This is simply impossible. I've killed her a few times, but never survived it. I won't usually keep the victory if more than 1 character is killed-- I assume that experience points are badly lost when characters don't survive.

 

Hidden Brigands. I'm trying to complete this one. I mopped up the rabble quickly, then returned for Gavrahoss. With difficulty I can get him down to his last pixel. I have yet to get out without everyone being killed. Yes, I am aware that his shades have weaknesses. I try to find the ones that are sensitive to melee, cold, heat and dispel attacks. I get a few licks in on at least one of them before they go away again. I have re-edited my characters and I still can't survive it.

 

Many quests, such as the second sentinel testing, required many attempts-- maybe 10 or more. I normally don't like to rely on 'perishables' such as wands, scrolls and potions. I never buy them, or there would be no cash left for spells.

 

Is the game tested only on people who have completed the previous releases? Are the testers instructed to use the default party or test under poor conditions? Are they isolated from other sources of information about the game?

 

I must insist, the easy setting should be easy. If I find it entirely impossible, then it is not easy. I would say the difficulty on the easy setting should be turned down by a whopping factor of 5.

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Quote:
The eye cultists: after trying several times, I increased my fighter's intelligence to 10 each; otherwise the eyebeast can control them without resistance. Casting 'Ward of Thoughts' had no noticeable effect. There was no other way to do it. It was easy after editing.


The trick to this one is to make sure the last character in the turn order attacks the eyebeast every round. Enemies normally target whoever attacked them most recently. This way, the eyebeast will usually try to charm that character each round instead of one of your fighters, and you can have the previous character cure them. If your fighter does get charmed, hopefully you have enough HP to survive one round of attacks. It might actually be better not to haste your whole party for this fight (so that your fighters never attack you twice), and just have your spellcasters drink speed potions instead.

Quote:
The Aranea Queen. This is simply impossible. I've killed her a few times, but never survived it. I won't usually keep the victory if more than 1 character is killed-- I assume that experience points are badly lost when characters don't survive.


Yes, this is an extremely difficult quest. Don't worry too much about experience: the experience you would have gained is shared equally among the survivors, so nothing is lost. Make sure you don't read the spellbook-webs while your spellcasters are dead, though, or the spells will be wasted.

I actually did the Aranea Queen quest in two stages: in the first pass, I killed the Death Widows and the golems, then let three of my characters fight to the death while the fourth one ran to the exit. He then went back to town to heal up and the party returned to take on the queen alone. This was still difficult, but possible with a little luck, expenditure of a couple of Speed Burst scrolls, and good tactics (charm the monsters she summons, keep spellcasters out of range of her fire aura attack, etc.) Magic is the most effective form of attack against her, so you might want to wait until you can cast Cloak of the Arcane, if you can't already.

Quote:
Many quests, such as the second sentinel testing, required many attempts-- maybe 10 or more. I normally don't like to rely on 'perishables' such as wands, scrolls and potions. I never buy them, or there would be no cash left for spells.


You almost never need to pay money for spells: you can get all the spells you need from spellbooks you find. Paying money to improve spells you already know isn't an efficient use of funds. At least keep the invulnerability potions and energy potions you find if you're not going to keep anything else. Speed burst scrolls are pretty amazing too, since they guarantee you two attacks per round. Group Heal scrolls are also useful for emergencies.
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Originally Posted By: blackwight


The eye cultists: after trying several times, I increased my fighter's intelligence to 10 each; otherwise the eyebeast can control them without resistance. Casting 'Ward of Thoughts' had no noticeable effect. There was no other way to do it. It was easy after editing.


Use unshackle mind to remove the eyebeast's control. Even with much higher inteligence you can get charmed. If you are worried about taking damage from your own fighters than have them unequip weapons before this fight.

Originally Posted By: blackwight

The Aranea Queen. This is simply impossible. I've killed her a few times, but never survived it. I won't usually keep the victory if more than 1 character is killed-- I assume that experience points are badly lost when characters don't survive.

Hidden Brigands. I'm trying to complete this one. I mopped up the rabble quickly, then returned for Gavrahoss. With difficulty I can get him down to his last pixel. I have yet to get out without everyone being killed. Yes, I am aware that his shades have weaknesses. I try to find the ones that are sensitive to melee, cold, heat and dispel attacks. I get a few licks in on at least one of them before they go away again. I have re-edited my characters and I still can't survive it.


This is a tough fight at any level. Taking out the Aranea queen first is important. Use your fighters as meatshields here to block while you heal and concentrate damage on one thing at a time.

Originally Posted By: blackwight

Many quests, such as the second sentinel testing, required many attempts-- maybe 10 or more. I normally don't like to rely on 'perishables' such as wands, scrolls and potions. I never buy them, or there would be no cash left for spells.


Some things are meant to be done using items. Invulnerable potions here are essential so you can survive. The same with Gladwell's Buried Seal quest. You aren't supposed to fight your way through, but instead just survive for a fixed number of rounds.

Originally Posted By: blackwight

Is the game tested only on people who have completed the previous releases? Are the testers instructed to use the default party or test under poor conditions? Are they isolated from other sources of information about the game?

The initial testers have tested a previous game so they are experienced in finding bugs and their are alot in the start. Some testers use the default party, but there are no restrictions on what we can try. We work alone on figuring out how to get through the game so we can't collaborate on finding the best way through special encounters. That's why you find differences in how to do them.

Originally Posted By: blackwight

I must insist, the easy setting should be easy. If I find it entirely impossible, then it is not easy. I would say the difficulty on the easy setting should be turned down by a whopping factor of 5.


The games are tested at normal level and harder, so if the testers can get through at normal than it's assumed that someone should get through on easy.
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Are you using battle disciplines, buffs, cloaks, wards, slow, acid, etc. or are you merely running into combat with guns blazing? If you do not enhance your status at all, or use a little trickery, you will definitely fail.

 

As for the eye cultists, you should probably cast the usual buffs (bless, haste, protect), Ward of Thoughts, and Cloak of Blades and summon a couple creatures to help you out prior to battle. Send your warriors in, and apply shield breaker and leg sweep. Use mighty blow whenever you can. Have your mage cast slow and keep dousing the eye with acid. You may need your priest to unshackle mind, but this fight is indeed doable. It may take a few tries, but it is not impossible.

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The "Hidden Brigands" you found aren't the Brigands Spire wants dead. Those are in a hidden cave far closer to Spire. You need to find a hidden switch to find them. A few folks will give you hints as to where they are.

 

Who you found are Darkside Loyalists who are indeed very tough, and one very powerful individual wants them dead. This is to say you really aren't supposed to able to kill them quite yet.

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Originally Posted By: darint
The "Hidden Brigands" you found aren't the Brigands Spire wants dead. Those are in a hidden cave far closer to Spire.


Oh. Thank you.

Originally Posted By: Thuryl
The trick to this one is to make sure the last character in the turn order attacks the eyebeast every round.


I often will lose my priest to charms, and sometimes my entire party. Of course I use Unshackle when my priest is working.

Originally Posted By: ThurylI actually did the Aranea Queen [...
Magic is the most effective form of attack against her, so you might want to wait until you can cast Cloak of the Arcane, if you can't already.


This stabs at the issue because my mage was nowhere near that level when I last tried that quest.

I noticed in A5 as well that it's possible to accumulate an XP deficit while playing sometimes, even when every quest is completed. I suspect that once you fall behind in XPs, it snowballs until the game becomes unplayable. If so then it's the progression that needs fixing.

Is it true that when a summoned monster gets a kill, the XPs for the kill are lost?

Here's what I think happens: If a party takes missions that are too hard, summoned monsters start getting the kills and sapping the XPs away. As reliance on summoned monsters increases, the loss accelerates. My summoned monsters are presently better fighters than the two in my party. Unless I summon a mouse of course.

If I'm right then the fix is to credit the party with the XPs their summoned monsters are presently wasting.
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You get experience for kills by summons, and they really shouldn't be better than your characters.

 

—Alorael, who still wants to see your character's skills, traits, and races. It's hard to figure out why the game is so tough when he doesn't know what you're working with.

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Whatever the problem you're having is, it's not rooted in a lack of XP. My party was level 20 when I killed the Aranea Queen, and that was on Torment difficulty. If you're at level 30 and still can't kill her on Easy, it really sounds like something's gone wrong with either your character builds or your tactics.

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Also for me summons were stronger than my warrior for a lot of the game. Like the blue zombie, he deals consistent 70-80 damage and very often does 2 attacks...

 

So yeah you have to play super dirty, exploiting every design unbalance ruthlessly. Like keeping your healer behind a wall so it cant get charmed and worst.

 

Also yeah, the default party is crappy, like why would you need any melee skill for a mage or priest? If you have already 2 warriors? Also 1 warrior is more than enough.

 

Also the ability descriptions are very deceitful and you should take them with a ton of salt.

 

Like dexterity, it says that it increases chance to hit in melee for warriors but according to various formulas it does not, its basically just a virtually useless XP dump.

 

And speed scrolls effectively double your fire power for 5 turns, which is something huge.

 

So yeah you need a fair deal of tricks to survive wink

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Originally Posted By: [Google Bot
]
Also, invest wisely in skills. Don't split skill points between Slings and Javelins. Romans should only use the latter, and you can always invest in Roman Training to increase your damage output, too.

I'll guess that this is a mispost that should be in the Nethergate forum, or was it a joke?
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Originally Posted By: When I was an ice sculpture
You get experience for kills by summons, and they really shouldn't be better than your characters.

—Alorael, who still wants to see your character's skills, traits, and races. It's hard to figure out why the game is so tough when he doesn't know what you're working with.


I think there must be some other source of positive feedback then.

From the oldest non-edited saved game are my stats:

Difficulty: Normal

Seargent first fighter, human male:

Level 19
Health 127
Spell energy 51
Armor 64%
Fire 45%
Cold 41%
Energy 41%
Stun 56%
Mental 6%
Poison 21%
Acid 45%
Strength 8
Dexterity 4
Intelligence 2
Endurance 6
Melee 9
Pole 0
Bows 1
Missiles 1
Quick action 4
Mage 0
Priest 0
Arcane lore 0
Spellcraft 0
Hardiness 5
Defense 3
Tool 0
Nature lore 6
First aid 3
Luck 0
Blademaster 2
Dual wielding 2


second fighter, slith male:

Level 17
Health 116
Spell energy 47
Armor 48%
Fire 44%
Cold 30%
Energy 30%
Stun 42%
Mental 6%
Poison 38%
Acid 47%
Strength 9
Dexterity 4
Intelligence 2
Endurance 5
Melee 4
Pole 11
Bows 1
Missiles 0
Quick action 2
Mage 0
Priest 0
Arcane lore 0
Spellcraft 0
Hardiness 4
Defense 5
Tool 0
Nature lore 2
First aid 2
Luck 0
Parry 2
Blademaster 1
Gymnastics 1
Dual wielding 1
Riposite 1
no traits

priest, human male:

Level 19
Health 111
Spell energy 231
Armor 38%
Fire 7%
Cold 7%
Energy 22%
Stun 16%
Mental 35%
Poison 21%
Acid 18%
Strength 2
Dexterity 2
Intelligence 11
Endurance 5
Melee 3
Pole 0
Bows 0
Missiles 1
Quick action 0
Mage 0
Priest 8
Arcane lore 1
Spellcraft 1
Hardiness 3
Defense 2
Tool 10
Nature lore 2
First aid 2
Luck 0
Delicate skin
Minor heal 3
Curing 3
War blessing 3
Protection 3
Repel spirit 3
Smite 3
Summon shade 4
Ward of thoughts 5
Unshackle mind 4
Heal 5
Mass healing 3
Mass curing 4
Control foe 1

mage, human female:

Level 19
Health 97
Spell energy 211
Armor 40%
Fire 22%
Cold 13%
Energy 35%
Stun 25%
Mental 42%
Poison 18%
Acid 18%
Strength 2
Dexterity 2
Intelligence 10
Endurance 4
Melee 1
Pole 0
Bows 0
Missiles 0
Quick action 3
Mage 10
Priest 0
Arcane lore 8
Spellcraft 5
Hardiness 2
Defense 1
Tool 0
Nature lore 1
First aid 0
Luck 0
Delicate skin
Bolt of fire 3
Call beast 1
Cloak of curses 3
Daze 1
Haste 3
Slow 3
Icy rain 4
Spray acid 3
Minor summon 1
Summon aid 1

Current quests:
More jobs for Meryhew
Aid tower colony
The Blessed Athame
Corrupted mushrooms
The buried seal
Tower colony notes
Great portal papers
Get help for Silvar
Flawless crystals
Second construct test
Hunting Holda
Donating meal
Skribbane infestation
Chrysander's theives
The crackling demon
X's anvil
The ogre's muck
Honeycomb horrors
Checking the wards
Locate Cundo
Find Murdock
The horror's lair
Delivery: undead spiral
The dancing bones
The dragon gate
Bounty: tunnel hunters
Message: Bargha
Fort spire records
Abyss thugs

Like I said, these are from days ago. The more recent stats are pretty meaningless with all the frustrated clicking I've been doing.

The next saved file was edited. If you like I can post it.

Thanks
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As you've already learned, having only one priest is a problem when that priest gets charmed or terrified. It's a good idea to have at least two characters with priest spells.

 

What traits did you pick for your characters? The game is a lot easier if everyone has Divinely Touched and another appropriate positive trait, despite the experience penalties.

 

Why is there 8 Arcane Lore on your mage and none on everyone else? The game even tells you that it's the total level in your party that matters: it's much cheaper to give every character 2 points instead of stacking it all on one character.

 

Here, take a look at this topic where I go over the basics of party optimisation. A few posts down, there are links to some screenshots of what my party looks like at level 9 and level 17.

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One word: endurance. Endurance is the most important stat, it boosts you HP by a very nice amount. You should be giving at least 8 to all characters by level 20, more for the front warriors. Save something on the other skills to give more endurance.

 

Defense and hardiness are not that good imo, I would only spend 2 points in hardiness but I guess that's a personal view.

 

Nature lore and arcane lore should be spread equally among the 4.

 

Your characters are glass cannons, they deal a lot of damage I guess but they're very frail. You will be better off with a more balanced build.

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It sounds as though a big problem here is just that A6's difficulty ramp is not closely tied to geography. There are lots of places where you can meet something long before you are ready to defeat it. In the most extreme cases, the game warns you that something much harder is beyond the next door or barrier or stairwell or whatever.

 

If you just follow the main plot quests, the game should be quite doable. Some of the sidequests and miscellaneous monsters are also fairly easy. Some are not, and you either need expertise in playing these games to beat them, or you need to come back later at higher level.

 

I really don't see a problem with this. Avernum is supposed to be a dangerous place. If you're new to the game and/or don't feel like playing a ferocious optimization challenge — which is of course totally fine — then all you really need to do is role-play a bit of reasonable caution. Expect things to be hard, and only push yourself to obey your orders; otherwise, play it safe. That's a sane attitude in Avernum.

 

If what you really want is a game where you can blithely go everywhere without worrying, and toast everything you meet while following the entertaining storyline, then that's fine, too. Use the editor and give yourself a god party.

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Looking at your characters you don't have the best traits, but on easy the game should still be doable. I'd advise at least 6 endurance for everyone. Just a little more health will help on borderline fights. Since the game no longer has augmentation you really need more health. Normal needs endurance 8 so even easy should have more than 5.

 

Then since you don't have skills coming from traits you need to increase those skills that you aren't getting:

 

Fighters need blademaster to increase damage since you are almost to unlocking that skill.

 

Mage should have more mage spells and spellcraft, also some priest spells will help to get unshackle mind.

 

Priest should have more priest spells and spellcraft.

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Quote:
Many quests, such as the second sentinel testing, required many attempts


I'm with randomizer on this one: an invulnerability potion seems essential here.

I'm not sure what level most people are when they complete this -- my first attempt I believe I was in single digits, and they slaughtered me. It's entirely doable on "normal" at level 11, as long as you position your team carefully -- your tank, with invulnerability potion, should be closest to the center golem when you interact.

Remember that damaging the golems isn't the point here -- although they do drop nice emeralds smile -- so while your tank might as well fight to keep their attention, your squishier characters should stay on the sidelines healing, summoning more meatshields, and most importantly not aggravating the golems.
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While it's definitely true that most beta testers are powergamers, I most certainly am not. I played the beta on Easy most of the way through (switching from Normal shortly after the demo portion) and I can assure you, the game is definitely winnable on Easy. As others have said, the difficulty got turned WAY down from the early versions, and easy is now actually easy.

 

My troubles occurred in not putting enough points into Endurance early, and looking at my build later, I wish I would have skipped the one human I did keep and made him a slith. Since you've edited your Endurance, you should be better there. I also have to second the advice to split your magic/priest spells up. Once I started having my mage learn priest spells and my priest learn mage spells, life got a lot better. Two healers and two fireblasts are better than one! Since you're having a lot of trouble with mental attacks, be sure your mage gets Unshackle Mind.

 

Also, don't forget about those priestly buffs. Sure it takes a round away that he could be hammering away at the baddie, but the lessened damage you'll take is worth it. Try to buff up before you hit the actual enemy, most of the enemy encounters are obvious enough that you'll have plenty of time to throw on at least a couple buffs plus a haste spell and be golden.

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I have to second that. Far from being a power gamer I usually sigh when I read the power gaming discussions on how to beat a game as a torment singleton - not because I can't see the challenge in that but I probably would be unable to do that without getting really tense and annoyed. When, during beta, something killed me, those were the fights I'd go in thinking about how to win next time around. I admit, that happened quite frequently, but pumping Endurance a bit and getting tough armor countered that effectively.

Otherwise, it was pretty straightforward on normal, I thought. But it's probably a good idea to take a party through beta with a built that would make more than half the people on these boards wince and the other people irate. Next time, perhaps.

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Originally Posted By: blackwight
Difficulty: Normal

Wait a minute, you said you were playing on the game's easiest difficulty setting, but your difficulty is set to Normal.

Is there an Easy setting to this game? There was in previous games. If there is one, maybe you should use it.

On a side note, I play all the games on Easy and sometimes I still find it hard.
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So, having read through this topic, I find it to have covered some of the more BASIC party design strategy, and was therefore rather helpful for the non-power-gamer that I claim to be. I've read through the slartanalysis and other strategy posts, and find them rather challenging for the lay person.

 

Here are a few points I've decided to heed in designing my next party based on the discussion here:

 

1. no humans in the party

2. everyone with Divinely Touched

3. beef up endurance for everyone

4. do not spend money on improving spell skills

5. party makeup: 1 fighter/tool, 1 mage, 1 mage/priest, 1 priest

 

Would anyone else agree?

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Yeah, you'll do okay with a party like that. I'd seriously consider going with at least two fighters (either two dual-wielders or one dual-wielder and one pole), just because fighters are really good in this game and Cloak of Blades magnifies their effectiveness even further.

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I'll second Randomizer's build. You can do fine without two fighters, but I think two is much easier, especially if you're not going to carefully manage your tactics and enemies' advances. Two mage/priests will give you enough flexibility without making your front line unmanageable.

 

—Alorael, who will add the other important trait advice as well, and some more race specificity. You want to take Elite Warrior, Natural Mage, or Pure Spirit along with Divinely Touched (take whichever best suits the character), and you generally want any character not using a spear to be a nephil. Spear users are the sliths.

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I'm going to go against the powergamers and dispute #4. Unlike every other Avernum game, A6 actually gives you more money than you can use. Eventually, you're going to have maxed out what you can buy from the trainers. At that point, there's no reason not to spend your funds increasing spells, particularly healing and attack spells.

 

Knowing that that point will eventually come, it's probably worth spending to increase the really cheap low-level attack and healing spells early. And if there's a spell you want that you haven't found a book for yet, there's no real harm to buying it.

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A6 also does something else unlike every recent Avernum game -- it allows you to turn gold directly into experience, via the Skribbane dealers. That is far, far, FAR more valuable than an overpriced spell level.

 

Yes, pumping spells that you know you'll use constantly, and which are very cheap to train, that's a different story.

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What does uping spell levels actually do. I understand why it's better to invest in trainers. But investing in spell levels must do something. I'm sitting at the 30,000 GP cap and I haven't entered the Northern areas. There's nothing left to buy so I'm just stockpiling all my gear in a huge pile at Ft Dranlon. I killed the Skribbane dealers.

 

 

On a side note skribbane is super useful for tough fights, I've used it 2x now. When does the addiction start.

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One extra spell level has exactly the same effect as one extra point of Spellcraft, but only for that specific spell. The exact effects depend on what spell you're casting, but in general there will be a slight increase in damage, healing, or duration.

 

I think the point at which Skribbane addiction sets in might actually be random. If I were you, I wouldn't use it more than five times.

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When I return from vacation next week, I will release Avernum 6 v1.0.1. The experience for monsters will be increased and some of the encounters (like that eyebeast) will be easier. Some optional encounters meant to be very hard (like the aranea queen) will be looked at, but, since they are optional and easily bypassable, I may leave them alone.

 

So yes, the game will become easier.

 

- Jeff Vogel

 

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Originally Posted By: Thuryl
One extra spell level has exactly the same effect as one extra point of Spellcraft, but only for that specific spell.

Actually, this isn't true. One spell level has the same effect as 1 and a third points of Spellcraft... Spellcraft and M/P Spells skills receive the same 75% reduction that Str/MW/PW/Blademaster do. It's just how the game calculates the attack bonus for any attack.
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Originally Posted By: VCH
I found the escort Solberg suicide mission tougher than it should have been for a main plot action. I haven't tried it on Normal or Hard, but I'm thinking that something didn't scale right to torment.


I think you may be right. I did it on Normal and was surprised at how easy it was -- I went through the whole thing without even having to reload. The various slith escorts had a zillion hit points, even on Normal, but you basically just sit around doing minimal amounts of damage, taking hits, and healing every now and then and wait for Solberg to finish them out. Those warm-up fights must have taken you a month on Torment. The Manburner herself, though, dropped in three rounds -- I don't believe she even lasted long enough for me to need to heal. The whole thing seemed like a bit of an anti-climax.
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You should have seen the early beta version. The Heroes of the Horde were each doing cleaving blows through several party characters. Without invulnerable the parties were dying quickly. Once the damage was moderated it became much easier even on torment. Solberg was great for softening up the sliths.

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I do have to say that the Solber mission has been the best part of the game so far. I really haven't liked the whole here's three missions job board type plot progression. The Solberg mission provided a needed bit of direction to the game. And it was an awesome end for Solberg. I finally got through the encounter by placing my spell casters in a corner away from the fight. While that should have been obvious as that's what I do in every fight, old Solberg said you might want to stick close to me . . . and believing him I placed all characters directly behind and to the side of him. That lead to my priest dying repeatedly. Also I agree that the man-burner was too easy, even on Torment she was a push over.

 

QUESTION: Solberg does ~200 to 300 damage on Torment, how much damage does he do on Normal or Hard?

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Originally Posted By: VCH
QUESTION: Solberg does ~200 to 300 damage on Torment, how much damage does he do on Normal or Hard?


Same, I think. On Normal, he never did less than 200 and the highest I remember was 252. Even so, the initial fight outside the gates took a long time, because those horde warriors had a zillion hit points. But they didn't do enough damage to be much of a threat, so I just let them beat on me until Solberg got around to killing them all (I think my guys got about 2, but even then they took about half their damage from Solberg's area blast).

In the inner area, I did stay right around Solberg, which also helped -- I formed a square around Solberg, to make it harder for the enemies to focus on them. This meant that the Slith appeared out of my line of sight and, when the Manburner showed up, her pet demons never activated. One warrior ran up, we whittled him down to a few hit points, then the next round the Manburner ran up and my fighters finally broke formation to attack her. Between me and Solberg (I think we each accounted for about half of the damage), we got her in three rounds, with the warrior going down to incidental area of effect damage in the first of those rounds. Then I went up to the north wall and moved west, picking off the demons one at a time in 1-2 rounds each. The activation thing really seemed like a bug, although I doubt the demons would have made the fight much harder even if they'd attacked when they were supposed to.
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