BoA Slith Singleton

[Zummi]

I've went with the way of the shaman, meaning melee with Priest spells. All's good and I'm playing ASR. I'm bothered though, if I should still put points in Priest Spells past 12 since I could cast Cloud of Blades now. Should I?

[Lazarus.]

I'd get at least 12 for CoB, and possibly 16 for divine restoration. If you think CoB is cheap, or don't plan to use it, then you probably don't need more than 7 for move mountains.

 

I rather like archery on my singletons, so that's another thing to consider spending points on.

[Ephesos]

Cloud of Blades is so broken that it's always worth it. Always.

[Zummi]

Cloud of Blades is so broken that T.G. Cid cries.

 

I've read that Create Illusions spell is a good one to have. Should I put some points too in Mage Spells and prolly getting some other spells from there too (Spray Acid, Light, Haste, etc.)?

[Nioca]

I wouldn't recommend branching out to Mage Spells as well. Even if you are a singleton, trying to upkeep both magic circles and melee weapons (and all the skills associated with) really starts to cut into your character's effectiveness at higher levels. That said, a couple points in Mage Spells probably wouldn't hurt (to get Light and Haste). But you probably shouldn't invest heavily.

 

Also, summoning spells royally suck, and aren't worth the investment. Anything you get won't be nearly good enough to handle what comes after you.

[Niemand]

The other problem with Mage Spells specifically is that it isn't really useful above about 3 points unless you have the expensive character trait. So, I would recommend getting 3 points of Mage skill if there's nothing else you need desperately, but not bothering beyond that. That will let you use Bolt of Fire, Light, and Haste, as well as the less useful Spray Acid (also Call Beast, which is useless).

 

Create Illusions is probably the worst of all the summoning spells, I'd argue: relatively high cost, for moderately powerful summons, but any enemy against which you would want to have summoned backup will likely be able to land at least one point of damage, disrupting the illusions instantly.

[Lilith]

Originally Posted By: Niemand

Create Illusions is probably the worst of all the summoning spells, I'd argue: relatively high cost, for moderately powerful summons, but any enemy against which you would want to have summoned backup will likely be able to land at least one point of damage, disrupting the illusions instantly.

In my experience, any enemy against which you would want to have summoned backup will tend to kill normal summons in one hit anyway, at least on Torment.

[Niemand]

Arcane Summon often isn't bound by that rule, I'd say, which is also the reason that it's the only summoning spell I use. I don't think I'd endorse it as a good use of a singleton's skill points and spell points, however.

[Enraged Slith]

Create Illusions is the one of the most broken spells in the game. For a modest investment in Mage Spells, any character can have a few free instant meat shields. It's essentially Mirror Image for BoA.

[Nioca]

...

 

Excuse me. I think my mind just imploded.

 

Create Illusions? One of the most broken spells in the game? Can you please elaborate on how a bunch of 1 HP critters are useful in a situation where instant meat shields were needed? Or in any situation, for that matter? 'Cause I'm having a very hard time figuring that one out.

[Lilith]

One Create Illusions spell will keep maybe five melee-using enemies busy for a round, or keep one busy for five rounds. You can do a lot of damage in five rounds when you don't have to worry about healing.

[Celtic Minstrel]

The term "broken" to me implies "underpowered" or "useless", but I think you all mean the exact opposite...

[Nioca]

...Except then you're diverting your mage into casting illusions when he could be just killing the enemies. Same cost, and you kill the enemies faster so you don't have to worry about healing anyway.

 

I suppose the problem I have with it is that it winds up useless in situations where you'd need it, and useful when you don't. If illusions can hold the enemy at bay, then the party likely could have handled it better with a well-placed Lightning Spray instead. If the party hits an enemy it has trouble with, the enemy could likely blow through the illusions like they weren't there (which, technically speaking, they aren't). It's not cost effective (in the 5 melee enemies example, if they weren't killed right away, the mage would have to recast, which gets expensive fast), it's unreliable (e.g. the Illusions get placed behind the party, turning the party into the meatshields for the illusions), and it ties the mage up in summoning when he could be hasting, slowing, or spraying elemental damage.

 

I also apologize for that horrific brick of a paragraph back there. If you can call it that, even.

[nikki.]

I don't use the spell, but I can see how it can be useful - if enemies aren't hitting you, you don't need healing. And, whilst an offensive spell might be better, it's only really cost effective when you know you can kill the enemy/enemies in one attack.

 

I only really imagine summoning spells being used in boss battles anyway - situations where you don't want the boss to be attacking you under any circumstances. And, although illusions vanish after taking 1 point of damage, the attack that did the damage isn't doing 100 points to one of your PCs.

 

Also, just to go back to another topic... Skill points and experience in BoA is so plentiful that you could easily make a character trained in both Mage and Priest spells. Considering that many scenarios allow you to purchase training in skills as well, you probably wouldn't even need to go through each scenario more than once.

[Nioca]

Quote:

I only really imagine summoning spells being used in boss battles anyway - situations where you don't want the boss to be attacking you under any circumstances. And, although illusions vanish after taking 1 point of damage, the attack that did the damage isn't doing 100 points to one of your PCs.

Except that most boss battles render that point moot by making the boss a spellcaster (or another enemy with AoE/Multi-target attacks). So your party gets hit anyway and the illusions are blasted into nothingness. Ones that don't have that usually render it moot anyway, because a single attack can only kill a PC if it's at 0 HP. An idle 2 SP healing spell is all it takes to render the character immune to dying again.

Now, I suppose it could be useful to a singleton mage. But that assumes that such a mage never invested in melee combat, which would make one wonder how such a mage ever got past the level 3.

Quote:

Also, just to go back to another topic... Skill points and experience in BoA is so plentiful that you could easily make a character trained in both Mage and Priest spells. Considering that many scenarios allow you to purchase training in skills as well, you probably wouldn't even need to go through each scenario more than once.

Oh, mage-priests are nice, so long as you're good at avoiding damage. I'm just saying that trying for a mage-priest-warrior is probably a bad idea.

[Lilith]

Originally Posted By: Nioca

...Except then you're diverting your mage into casting illusions when he could be just killing the enemies. Same cost, and you kill the enemies faster so you don't have to worry about healing anyway.

Attack magic in BoA costs large amounts of spell energy, does pretty mediocre damage, and you're casting it every round instead of every few rounds. Plus, elemental resistances are common. Mages are usually better off shooting arrows than using direct-damage spells; attack magic is seriously that terrible.

[Lazarus.]

I like Create Illusions as well. It's cheaper than the higher end summoning spells like Arcane Summon, but you can still get powerful spellcasters like vampires etc. The only tradeoff is that they die after taking one hit, but if you get some sort of spellcaster that summons more creatures then you have a self replicating meat shield. Or they could cast fireblast or something.

 

And yeah, offensive magic is total trash in BoA. My mages almost always have priest spells, that way they can actually do something while they wait for the odd physical immune monster to come along. Whenever they aren't healing/buffing they might as well be summoning.

 

Also I think one of the third party scenarios (possibly Canopy) gives level 10 illusion or something, which keeps the spell useful. I can't think of any scenario that awards (or even sells) high level arcane summoning. I guess that shouldn't really be considered when debating whether a spell is broken or not though.

[Zummi]

I'm not trying for a mage-priest warrior. I'm just saying if I should plink in some points in Mage Spells for utility spells.

[Lilith]

The problem is that you don't get any spells beyond Slow while wearing encumbering armour unless you have Natural Mage. Taking off your armour to cast Unlock Doors or Dispel Barrier may not be a big deal most of the time, but do you really want to invest that much in Mage Spells just for those two spells when the rest of your spell list will be mostly useless?

[Jerakeen]

You also get the side benefit of extra spell energy.

[Kurian]

i'd skip magic spells all togethor and go for more endurance or melee skill, personally.

[Upon Mars.]

Now, now, Magic is great naturally unless you're Amana.

[Ephesos]

A word about Create Illusions. I'm pretty sure that in Canopy (or some other TM scenario) you can get it at level TEN. Then it's definitely worth casting.

[Celtic Minstrel]

...why are people saying the offensive spells are useless? They work well enough for me.

[The Mystic]

Originally Posted By: Nioca

Also, summoning spells royally suck, and aren't worth the investment. Anything you get won't be nearly good enough to handle what comes after you.

Or will impede your movement, at best. Summoned spellcasters are notorious for that, especially the ones you get with Arcane Summon; I don't know about anyone else, but I end up summoning spellcasters who summon spellcasters who summon spellcasters, and they all haste themselves in preparation for another round of summoning. With the number of self-replicating summoned creatures, I can usually catnap between rounds of combat, and I have to wait for several rounds afterwards so I can move my party.

Originally Posted By: Celtic Minstrel

...why are people saying the offensive spells are useless? They work well enough for me.

Offensive spells work fine for me too; they're normally the only damage I inflict.

[Niemand]

Offensive spells decrease drastically in usefulness at high levels. Their damage output grows slowly as caster skill (and not much faster for spell level), while creatures' hitpoints, and perhaps more importantly, creatures' Dexterity is also increasing. From the docs Dexterity = Level / 3 + 1 for a creature, and Magic Resistance is proportional to DEX/4, so Magic Resistance is proportional to Level/12. This is trivial at low levels, but I think it accounts in part for the often disappointing results of spells directed at high level monsters.

 

I however, like and use offensive Mage spells often; they are very much worthwhile for the vast majority of scenarios which currently exist.

[Enraged Slith]

Dexterity may be the single best skill in the game. Maxing dexterity gives you magical resistance, a 95% chance of dodging enemy blows, tool use and other skills, and an ability to dish out a decent amount of ranged damage.

[Zummi]

I've heard that Gymnastics is not that great for a singleton. Is it true?