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dgoodrich

Party Design

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As You might guess I don't like sliths. First they're Racial experience penalty is to high. If you want decent Traits (The ones >10% Penalty) you go above 30% total and In my opion >30% makes the game to hard. Second The only poles I've liked were all two handed and I ain't Going shieldless. Please excuse the poor formatting. It looked right on my cmop. But the forum ain't cooperating.

 

This is a guide to what in my opion is the best Party Composition.

You'll have a party highly skilled in Archery, Lockpicking, Melee, and Very Highly skilled in both types of magic.

 

Party Design

 

Party Needs

 

Lockpicking

Archer

Healer

Spell Caster

Melee

 

Cost Effective Benefits

 

Need | Benefitted By | Cost | Race/Trait Extras |

-------------|----------------|------|------------------------|

Lockpicking | Nimble Fingers | 08% | First Aid |

Archer | Deadeye | 10% | Bows |

Archer | Nephil | 10% | Bows & Gymnastics |

Healer | Pure Spirit | 15% | Magical Efficiency |

Spell Caster | Natural Mage | 15% | Magical Efficiency |

Melee | Elite Warrior | 15% | Parry and blade Damage |

 

Limit 30% Penalty

 

Good Classes

 

Thief (Custom Class. Combo of rouge and archer) (Recomended Race Nephil)

Paladdin (Custom Class. Soldier with minor healing powers) (Recomended Race Human)

Hedge Wizard (Can cast Priest and mage Spells) (Recomended Race Human)

 

Character Starting Statistics

 

A.

Race = Nephil

Class = Thief

Traits = Deadeye & Nimble Fingers

 

Strength = 3

Dexterity = 5

Intelligence = 2

Endurance = 4

 

Melee = 0

Pole = 0

Bows = 8 (Includes Bonus From Race and Deadeye)

Thrown Missles = 2

Quick Action = 2

 

Mage Spells = 0

Priest Spells = 0

Arcane Lore = 4 (All Party Members Should Have at Least 4)

Spellcraft = 0

 

Hardiness = 2

Defense = 0

Tool Use = 6 (Includes Bonus From Nimble Fingers)

Nature Lore = 2 (All characters should have 5 or 6 levels of this at some point.)

First Aid = 2 (All characters should have 5 or 6 levels of this at some point.)

Luck = 2 (A Couple of levels of luck makes a world of difference)

 

Good Special Skills (Bonuses Don't count toward Special skill Costs)

 

Gymnastics (Attacks faster in combat. Effects party turn order. Less Chance to be hit.)

Dexterity = 8 (Cost 9)

Strength = 6 (Cost 8)

 

Sharpshooter (Increases Ranged Weapon Damage. A must for archers. Might Increase hit chance.)

Dexterity = 6 (Cost 8)

Bows = 8 (Cost 6)

 

B.

Race = Human

Class = Paladdin

Traits = Elite Warrior & Pure Spirit

 

Strength = 4

Dexterity = 4

Intelligence = 2

Endurance = 4

 

Melee = 4

Pole = 0

Bows = 0

Thrown Missles = 0

Quick Action = 2

 

Mage Spells =

Priest Spells = 4

Arcane Lore = 0 (When Leveling up put leftover skill points in here till 4 levels bought)

Spellcraft = 0 (When Leveling up put leftover skill points in here till 2 levels bought)

 

Hardiness = 2

Defense = 2

Tool Use = 0

Nature Lore = 2 (All characters should have 5 or 6 levels of this at some point.)

First Aid = 2 (All characters should have 5 or 6 levels of this at some point.)

Luck = 2 (A Couple of levels of luck makes a world of difference)

 

Good Special Skills (Bonuses Don't count toward Special skill Costs)

(Might Not get enough skill points for all Special Skills)

 

Quick Strike (Tiny chance of bonus AP. Faster Attacks.)

Dexterity = 6 (Cost 8)

Melee = 6 (Cost 7)

 

Gymnastics (Attacks faster in combat. Effects party turn order. Less Chance to be hit.)

Dexterity = 8 (Cost 9)

Strength = 6 (Cost 8)

 

Blademaster (Increases melee hit chance, Damage. decreases Fatigue time. A must for fighters.)

(Can burn through battle techniques this way.)

Melee = 6 (Cost 7)

Pole = 6 (Cost 7)

Strength = 6 (Cost 8)

 

Anatomy (Bonus to first aid recovery, Damage bonus to humanoids. A fighters must have.)

Intelligence = 4 (Cost 7)

Melee = 8 (Cost 8)

 

C. & D.

Race = Human

Class = Hedge Wizard (Plus 2 levels of luck.)

Traits = Pure Spirit & Natural Mage

 

Eventually get your Hedge Wizard 5 or 6 levels of Nature Lore and First aid.

 

Good Special Skills (Bonuses Don't count toward Special skill Costs)

 

Magery (Increases Spell Duration and damage. A must for Magic Users.)

Intelligence = 8 (Cost 9)

Mage Spells = 6 (Cost 8) OR

Priest Spells = 6 (Cost 7)

 

Magical Efficiency (Good chance of decreasing Spell Point cost. Spam attack spells and cheaper buffs.)

(A must for Magic Users.)

Magery = 8 (Cost 8)

Endurance = 8 (Cost 8)

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All poles are two handed. They actually do balance decently with shields, although on very high difficulty the primary role of fighters is to soak up damage (for which shields are helpful) and the mages are the ones that dish it out, mostly. Or so I gather; I avoid Torment.

 

On penalties, how far have you played? I think you may be overestimating the difficulty of high experience penalties. Part of what makes them not as bad as they seem is the fact that the experience you gain scales with level, so the actual difference at a 30% penalty is far less than 30%.

 

Nimble Fingers is simply a bad trait. It's much more efficient to take another trait that gives more bonuses and to use the skill point savings on more Tool Use.

 

The rest of the traits you pretty much have right, but I'd take another look at Divinely Touched. Yes, it's expensive, but it's also a great saving in skill points. Because you don't lose many levels from penalties, you actually end up with more skill points to spend by taking the trait. It's great for fighters, fairly good for casters, and just works well. Note that battle disciplines work for spells and bows as well as in melee combat, so your casters benefit quite handily from Blademaster too.

 

On races, keep in mind that both nephils and sliths get bonuses to skills that gives more battle disciplines (bows/throwing and polearms, respectively), so they'll give you quicker access to those. I agree that sliths aren't at all tempting if you won't be using poles. Nephils are good for everything, though, because every character benefits from being able to use bows decently, everyone likes more disciplines, and the tiny Gymnastics bonus can't hurt.

 

—Alorael, who has left out all the min-maxing you can do by not putting points into skills until you can add them with gold from trainers. You can save some more skill points that way, but depending on your style and love of difficulty now for ease later it may not be worthwhile.

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Originally Posted By: Lie for your cause!
All poles are two handed. They actually do balance decently with shields, although on very high difficulty the primary role of fighters is to soak up damage (for which shields are helpful) and the mages are the ones that dish it out, mostly. Or so I gather; I avoid Torment.


Shields provide negligible damage protection, especially on Torment where your PC's receive a hidden -25% (?) deduction to all resistances and armour. If the shield has stat bonuses such as +2 to QA, they are worth a bit of inconvenience (eg. pumping up strength so that you aren't encumbered), but not trading away that extra 0.5 avg damage per combat level if you are choosing between melee and pole.

Quote:

On penalties, how far have you played? I think you may be overestimating the difficulty of high experience penalties. Part of what makes them not as bad as they seem is the fact that the experience you gain scales with level, so the actual difference at a 30% penalty is far less than 30%.


Yes. And the bonuses offered by traits and races far outstrips the 10-15 skill points lost.

Quote:

Nimble Fingers is simply a bad trait. It's much more efficient to take another trait that gives more bonuses and to use the skill point savings on more Tool Use.

The rest of the traits you pretty much have right, but I'd take another look at Divinely Touched. Yes, it's expensive, but it's also a great saving in skill points. Because you don't lose many levels from penalties, you actually end up with more skill points to spend by taking the trait. It's great for fighters, fairly good for casters, and just works well. Note that battle disciplines work for spells and bows as well as in melee combat, so your casters benefit quite handily from Blademaster too.


On races, keep in mind that both nephils and sliths get bonuses to skills that gives more battle disciplines (bows/throwing and polearms, respectively), so they'll give you quicker access to those. I agree that sliths aren't at all tempting if you won't be using poles. Nephils are good for everything, though, because every character benefits from being able to use bows decently, everyone likes more disciplines, and the tiny Gymnastics bonus can't hurt.



Seconded. You'd have to be crazy *not* to take Divinely Touched.

Originally Posted By: Earth2025
Bows suck on damage until you reach Harkins/Tranquility so 2nd swordsman or polefighter would be better than archer.


Why would a swordsman be any more effective than an archer? Longbows use the *same* damage multiplier as swords, except the enemy is less likely to parry them and you don't need to be next to an enemy to connect. Furthermore, you can get the Blessed Longbow and Farsight Band real early in the game. Waveblade vs Blessed Longbow and +3 to Sharpshooter = No contest!

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Bows: Just for kicks, my last run-through I decided to use four (custom) nephils, and, as far as possible, identically train & equip them. You know, a litter. And I figured, being a kinda sorta role playing run, I'd give them all fast on feet plus deadeye - I mean, they're cats, right ? And a couple more restrictions: (1) no melee or pole weapon use - nary a blade has been lifted; (2) no magic spells (wands etc. ok). They were to be be Anama pin-cushion kitties, all claws & spirit. Now, suspecting this was a difficult combination, I played on Easy. It wasn't until after Harkin's Landing that one of the cats began priest training (up to then healing with potions & food), and this character has been consuming nearly all the knowledge brews / wisdom crystals in order to try to keep up with its litter mates as well (but still falling behind a bit).

 

Gotta say, it's been tough. Blessed longbows are ok, but those bad guys have to be looking like porcupines long before they fall. It's been living on the edge the whole time, even with liberal use of "iampoor".

 

And yes, I've been pumping bows, sharpshooter and dexterity, and also the other battle skills in order to maximize battle disciplines per skill point spent. Tactics are everything, and keep needing to be "kicked up a notch". Divine restoration is a (ha!) godsend. Divine retribution, on the other hand, is just about useless, unles the priest is unreachable. Nothing like agro-ing everything in sight.

 

Equipment distribution has been challenging. I probably should have "stolen" the Fang Clan trials equipment, and it certainly would have been in character to do so, but I just couldn't bring myself to do it (this was before I gave up on the living with the money shortage).

 

Just wanted to add a bow v. melee counterpoint here. Blades / poles and the many more enhancing skills associated with them are far more effective than bows.

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Originally Posted By: Lie for your cause!
All poles are two handed.
Not quite; occasionally I come across a one-handed spear.

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Originally Posted By: Untamed Banana Slug
Do you think a party of 4 swordsmen would have fared any better?


Yessir; and now that you mention it, I guess I'd actually have to try - all blades, no bows. Four sliths with poles, perhaps ? But the blades offer more options and better stat buffs, usually.

No bows at all could be a real problem, whereas at least bows can be used in close quarters. Hmm...

I think too one has to consider the effect of a magic prohibition from the start, not just from Ahonaria on. It sure is difficult to isolate variables in this game.

But yes, melee + quick action + blademaster + anatomy + lethal blow, along with better weapon numbers, sure seems to beat bow + sharpshooter (battle disciplines, quick strike, and strength/dexterity being "equal").

Battle disciplines: not so equal, perhaps, as a blade/pole user gets benefit from those primary weapon stats in addition to the +1 to BD, whereas a bow user merely gets +1 BD from them, and +.5 BD for its primary weapon.

Strength v. dexterity: I've been having a tough time with encumbrances. I'd have more motivation to pump strength if it affected offensive skills as well. The armor bearing increase associated with more strength has to be compared with the defensive increase of pure dexterity.

Nahhh - bows don't even compare. A quickly dead enemy is the best defense ;-)

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Originally Posted By: fractalnavel
Strength v. dexterity: I've been having a tough time with encumbrances. I'd have more motivation to pump strength if it affected offensive skills as well. The armor bearing increase associated with more strength has to be compared with the defensive increase of pure dexterity.


Strength does improve the damage you do with swords and spears. It doesn't improve accuracy, but accuracy is never, ever a problem. Conversely, dodging is pretty much impossible beyond the early game on anything higher than Normal difficulty, which makes the defensive benefits of Dexterity negligible.

In the long run, the best way to deal with encumbrance is to take the Elite Warrior trait, if you can fit it into your build: it increases your weight limit by 1 pound per level. The second-best way is to just not wear heavy gear in the first place: it's usually not that much better than lighter equipment.

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Originally Posted By: fractalnavel
Originally Posted By: Untamed Banana Slug
Do you think a party of 4 swordsmen would have fared any better?


Yessir; and now that you mention it, I guess I'd actually have to try - all blades, no bows. Four sliths with poles, perhaps ? But the blades offer more options and better stat buffs, usually.


I'm skeptical. You could make a good case for polearms, but melee weapons are just bows which you can't use at a range.

Quote:

But yes, melee + quick action + blademaster + anatomy + lethal blow, along with better weapon numbers, sure seems to beat bow + sharpshooter (battle disciplines, quick strike, and strength/dexterity being "equal").

Battle disciplines: not so equal, perhaps, as a blade/pole user gets benefit from those primary weapon stats in addition to the +1 to BD, whereas a bow user merely gets +1 BD from them, and +.5 BD for its primary weapon.


Polearms have better weapon numbers than melee, as well as more stat boosts available throughout the game.

Quote:

Strength v. dexterity: I've been having a tough time with encumbrances. I'd have more motivation to pump strength if it affected offensive skills as well. The armor bearing increase associated with more strength has to be compared with the defensive increase of pure dexterity.


Being able to wear slightly heavier armour isn't a big deal.

Quote:

Nahhh - bows don't even compare. A quickly dead enemy is the best defense ;-)


Which means that you should be arguing in favour of polearms, not melee.

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Oh, no - I'm not "arguing" in favor of bows at all - quite the contrary:

 

Originally Posted By: fractalnavel
... Blades / poles and the many more enhancing skills associated with them are far more effective than bows.

 

Just commenting on my experience re:

 

Originally Posted By: Untamed Banana Slug
... Why would a swordsman be any more effective than an archer? ...

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Originally Posted By: fractalnavel
Oh, no - I'm not "arguing" in favor of bows at all - quite the contrary:


Yeah, I knew that, I just had a mental lapse. Brain not detected: Retry, fail, ignore?

Anyway, all of the advantages you ascribe to melee weapons *also* apply to pole weapons, except pole weapons receive an extra 0.5 die of damage per combat level. So you should be arguing in favour of pole weapons, not meleee.

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I was thinking more in terms of poles/blades v. bows, not poles v. blades v. bows. Close combat v. ranged. I've always wondered why the term "melee" was reserved for blades in these games, since there isn't a blade v. pole combat technique difference.

 

I wasn't really favoring anything, only attempting to offer an alternative perspective with respect to the following exchange:

 

Originally Posted By: Untamed Banana Slug

...

Originally Posted By: Earth2025
Bows suck on damage until you reach Harkins/Tranquility so 2nd swordsman or polefighter would be better than archer.

 

Why would a swordsman be any more effective than an archer? Longbows use the *same* damage multiplier as swords, except the enemy is less likely to parry them and you don't need to be next to an enemy to connect. Furthermore, you can get the Blessed Longbow and Farsight Band real early in the game. Waveblade vs Blessed Longbow and +3 to Sharpshooter = No contest!

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Originally Posted By: fractalnavel
I was thinking more in terms of poles/blades v. bows, not poles v. blades v. bows. Close combat v. ranged. I've always wondered why the term "melee" was reserved for blades in these games, since there isn't a blade v. pole combat technique difference.

I wasn't really favoring anything, only attempting to offer an alternative perspective with respect to the following exchange:

Originally Posted By: Untamed Banana Slug

...
Originally Posted By: Earth2025
Bows suck on damage until you reach Harkins/Tranquility so 2nd swordsman or polefighter would be better than archer.


Why would a swordsman be any more effective than an archer? Longbows use the *same* damage multiplier as swords, except the enemy is less likely to parry them and you don't need to be next to an enemy to connect. Furthermore, you can get the Blessed Longbow and Farsight Band real early in the game. Waveblade vs Blessed Longbow and +3 to Sharpshooter = No contest!


Fair enough. What I'm saying is that I think you'd have a plausible case if you said poles > bows, but I just can't see how swords > bows.

And I stand by my claim that a Blessed Longbow + Farsight band > Waveblade.

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Originally Posted By: Untamed Banana Slug

Why would a swordsman be any more effective than an archer? Longbows use the *same* damage multiplier as swords, except the enemy is less likely to parry them and you don't need to be next to an enemy to connect. Furthermore, you can get the Blessed Longbow and Farsight Band real early in the game. Waveblade vs Blessed Longbow and +3 to Sharpshooter = No contest!



because Quick Action.



And yes I know Quick Action has been nerfed, but in A4 there was a killer combination that still works pretty well:

Fast On Feet + Quick Action + Quick Strike + Haste.
These definitely influence each other in A4, and to some degree in A5. And since battle disciplines are applied to both swings, it's still pretty nice. Not as overpowered as in A4 where my two hasted Elite Warrior+FOF guys wipe out everything, but still good.

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Originally Posted By: SacredPath_82
Originally Posted By: Untamed Banana Slug

Why would a swordsman be any more effective than an archer? Longbows use the *same* damage multiplier as swords, except the enemy is less likely to parry them and you don't need to be next to an enemy to connect. Furthermore, you can get the Blessed Longbow and Farsight Band real early in the game. Waveblade vs Blessed Longbow and +3 to Sharpshooter = No contest!


because Quick Action.

And yes I know Quick Action has been nerfed, but in A4 there was a killer combination that still works pretty well:

Fast On Feet + Quick Action + Quick Strike + Haste.
These definitely influence each other in A4, and to some degree in A5. And since battle disciplines are applied to both swings, it's still pretty nice. Not as overpowered as in A4 where my two hasted Elite Warrior+FOF guys wipe out everything, but still good.


There is discussion at:

http://www.ironycentral.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=109988&page=1

and

http://www.ironycentral.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=111925&page=1

regarding this issue. Apparently the jury is still out, despite all that discussion!

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I didn't really see a reference to my build in there though, only generic things like "30 points of QA give one extra swing 1/3" which isn't exactly true since at least Haste and probably some other things also influence QA.

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Why people are completely forgotting the Disadvantages? I am doing fine with four chars with weak minded DA. (Difficulty is set to hard).

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Originally Posted By: Puksis
Why people are completely forgotting the Disadvantages? I am doing fine with four chars with weak minded DA. (Difficulty is set to hard).


Wait until they all get terrorized and run around for several rounds. Even with high intelligence and mind effect resistance items, they still can be affected.

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Originally Posted By: SacredPath_82
I didn't really see a reference to my build in there though, only generic things like "30 points of QA give one extra swing 1/3" which isn't exactly true since at least Haste and probably some other things also influence QA.


The threads I linked to have our forum veterans/nerds discussing the respective advantages and disadvantages of melee/pole/bows, which relates to your build and the discussion I'm having with fractal.

As to your build, haste, quick strike and fast on feet* would all benefit bows as well. Quick action is the only skill which gives swords the edge. But this is counteracted by the ability to strike an enemy from anywhere on the screen with a bow, the decreased chance to parry, the ability to stay outside the range of aura attacks, and being able to completely avoid all those harmful effects you receive when you strike an opponent in combat.

* Fast on feet is a relatively lousy trait, by the way.

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Originally Posted By: Untamed Banana Slug


As to your build, haste, quick strike and fast on feet* would all benefit bows as well. Quick action is the only skill which gives swords the edge. But this is counteracted by the ability to strike an enemy from anywhere on the screen with a bow, the decreased chance to parry, the ability to stay outside the range of aura attacks, and being able to completely avoid all those harmful effects you receive when you strike an opponent in combat.

* Fast on feet is a relatively lousy trait, by the way.


FOF is crucial in this build though since it is built around Action Points and double strikes, and FOF multiplies in some way with Quick Strike (has been tested for A4 at least).

Archers would have to invest in a melee skill to unlock Quick Strike, which may or may not be a waste (battle disciplines).

Also, archery is good, if you have 1 or better two tanks in the front already to soak up the damage.

As for archers tanking... I don't think the idea is great. If you keep them in the back, you can invest in Dex, Bows/Throws, and Sharpshooter to the exclusion of pretty much everything else, which is much better than putting points in hardiness/ parry/ Endurance so you can put them in the front.

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Originally Posted By: Untamed Banana Slug
... the discussion I'm having with fractal.

'Fractal' is the other guy ;-) Yeah, someone else picked up part of my handle some time back. There's still room here for 'untamed' or 'banana' or 'slug', or combinations thereof. ***


Originally Posted By: SacredPath_82
... As for archers tanking...

The bonding knife is helpful for this. A tank role seems unavoidable unless you are one-shot'ing everything.


UBS: thanks for posting the links; I greatly enjoyed those threads the first time around. My 'challenge' build was partly motivated by those discussions, along with Alorael's occasional mention of his builds / playing style.

It speaks well of the design of the game's mechanics that these types of discussions are largely inconclusive, despite (or because of?) various - idiosyncrasies.

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Originally Posted By: fractalnavel

The bonding knife is helpful for this. A tank role seems unavoidable unless you are one-shot'ing everything.


nope, not at all. See the various "two melee tanks two archers" party set ups (wether we're talking about full time archers or secondary spellcasting archers)

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I respect Your opinions but I still think A nephil archer with deadeye and nimble fingers is as good or better than a swordsman plus I quickly came accros a Blessed Longbow and Farsight Band. Plus some where around exodus you get a cloak for archers. The deadeye cloak I think. Plus DIDN'T ANYBODY here notice nimble finger gives a bouns to first aid as well. By making my archer a nephil I get bonuses from deadeye and Race. Between bonuses and equipment I have yet to spend ANY SKILL POINTS AT ALL for bows. As for shields being negligible (SP?) that's why you go for ones with stun resistance and/or skill bonuses like the one thats +1 gymnastis and +1 to parry. (I forget the name) and a four swords party is lousy you NEED at least one priest and mage and Hedge wizards are both. I will admit I didn't know that EXP scaled that little Loading tip never came up. Plus you need the nimble fingers bonus to unlock doors I don't know about you but no matter what I do I can't get the unlock door spell to unlock much of anything. therefore you need lockpicking and nimblefingers helps with that and first aid. Witch is great after fights. also get the anatomy skill for your fighter more post fight healing. I've tried other peoples recommendations for parties and they've all STUNK!!!!!!!!!!!! I find this one works great for me.

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Originally Posted By: dgoodrich
I find this one works great for me.
That's all that truly matters. The best party you can have is the one that best fits your playing style.

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Originally Posted By: dgoodrich
I don't know about you but no matter what I do I can't get the unlock door spell to unlock much of anything.


Tool Use boosts the power of the Unlock spell, so it's best to give it to your mage, and then they can open doors.

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Sorry for posting in two parts but I'm at the library and comp time is limited.

 

Another plus to bows is no thorn effect plus less likely to parry. The thorn effect is where when a character is struck with a sword the attacking character is also damaged. Plus archers don't have to be right next to an enemie(SP?) to attack. Now people here have made good points about blades having more varied bonuses. Which is why I recommened making a nephil archer with deadeye AND NIMBLE FINGERS. IN MY OPINION the bonus to first aid and lock picking makes nimble fingers a good trait. Furthermore I am aware that there are some enemies that blades do little to nothing against. That's why I made a paladdin(SP?) custom class. By adding a pure spirit and buying two level of priest. You get access to smite which is good in 9 out of 10 cases where blades are at a disadvantage. Plus if smite does nothing you can always cast war blessing and protection plus eventually your pure spirit will give you access to eduring shield. That's why paladdin(SP?) custom class plus elite warrior plus pure spirit makes for a GREAT butt kicking character. Plus I don't know why others say one haned spears are rare. I get them ALL THE BLOODY TIME. Could it perhaps be the +2 luck I always give my characters?

And as for people asing me how far I've Gotten I've kicked the games BUTT on all difficulties but torment. Now that I know about the torment hidden 25% penalty to armor and resistance I'll try that again. And as for divinely touched that's more of a tank trait and I don't like tanks. Sure you can survive a lot more damage but you go through a lot of healing potions and spells. Whereas I pefer to AVOID taking damage in the first place. And You'd be surprised at how much difference there is between a mage/Hedgewizard with leather armor and one with robes. And the fine cleaver is a great weapons for spellcasters for the +1 dexterty. Also You'll want to give your paladdin(SP?) the samaritan sandals. For the +1 priest spells. Also paladdins(SP?) should get first choice of spellcraft bonus gear.

 

Also maybe I'm misinterperating(SP?). But I get the impression that a lot of people critize my tips for being different than the popular approach. which I admit I rarely GO WITH THE FLOW. But I find that's a great approach for me. And the people I know who have tried it tell me that it works great for my advice is great for reducing or eliminating the GLASS CANNON EFFECT. Which is common place on a lot of games I play. My problem is when making a guide I forget to make gear recommendations. With the right gear weaknesses can be greatly reduced or even eliminated completely. Also I have a problem with articulation. Hence something I wright to mean one thing is sometimes taken to mean something else entirely.

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Hey Koth thanks for the tip I didn't know that. Maybe when I retry torment I'll try that. But I still Like hedge wizard with pure spirit AND natural mage it's like getting an archer, a paladdin(SP?), Two Priests, AND two mages. This way you can double whammy the lightning one round and double whammy the healing/curing the next. Plus your buffs can be cast in the half the time. Still a GREAT TIP though.

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Nimble Fingers is undoubtedly a trait that's better than nothing, but it's still not very good. You shouldn't need it to unlock doors even without magic, you shouldn't need it for the minor First Aid bonus, and you should be able to find a trait that saves you more points. Why not a nephil with Divinely Touched and Deadeye for truly absurd shooting ability?

 

And I maintain that your paladin should be Divinely Touched as well. The trait is good for all characters, but it's even better for characters who are more than one of melee, archer, and caster. The paladin is definitely the first and last, and all characters should dabble in archery. (Or, put another way, Divinely Touched makes everyone capable of dabbling in archery!)

 

Finally, your aversion to tanks (or meat shields) both misses what people are suggesting and misses a fact of Avernum. What your party needs is just someone who can protect the more delicate characters. You shouldn't have characters designed especially to absorb damage because you shouldn't need them, but you may well have a few glass cannons to ward. And a fact of A4-A5 is that you will be hit. On Hard and Torment you will always be hit pretty much no matter what you do. Rather than trying not to take any damage, you have to work on minimizing damage taken.

 

—Alorael, who definitely agrees about the benefits of having mage/priests in your party. The loss of specialized power is well compensated by the immense flexibility. It's too bad they don't get the absurdly oversized energy pools that got in earlier games.

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Originally Posted By: Khoth
Originally Posted By: dgoodrich
I don't know about you but no matter what I do I can't get the unlock door spell to unlock much of anything.


Tool Use boosts the power of the Unlock spell, so it's best to give it to your mage, and then they can open doors.


I'm pretty sure they canceled this for 5 (it was true for 4).
The unlock only removes magic bindings from doors, the lock still needs to be picked manually most of the time.
to improve the spell itself add to spell craft, magery or wizardry and if still doesn't work steal a tinker's crystal from the anama.
if still not working change the tinkers bauble or the thief's gloves to 90 and no door will ever stand in your way again (unless magically bound beyond your skill in which case your sc***d).
(see script editing section)

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Originally Posted By: Khoth
Originally Posted By: dgoodrich
I don't know about you but no matter what I do I can't get the unlock door spell to unlock much of anything.


Tool Use boosts the power of the Unlock spell, so it's best to give it to your mage, and then they can open doors.


This is only in Avernum 4.

To improve unlock spell you need to increase mage spell level, spellcraft, and/or magery.

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