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Celtic Minstrel

Feature Suggestions, Bug Reports, and so on

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Aren't you talking about the same thing as in the "Character Editor" to choose "Add all Town Maps" and "Add all Outdoors Maps"?

When you choose this option the Maps are completely revealed.

me

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Back to the Node/Flag item...

In Scenario Editor there are several "Dump" selections: "Text Dump", "Monsters Dump", "Specials Dump", etc. A Player has the option to create a File of any of several options regarding the Scenario. And... a Player can modify the Party at any time, before or during a Game.

Is it practical to create a "Party Status Dump"?

That is, would it be possible, or practical, to do a "Dump" of the Game status of the Party; not the individual PC Attributes, but the status of the Flags, spcifically at that moment in the Game.

*I'm interested in detailing the Scenario.

I can find all the Nodes, Flags, etc. in a "Design State", but on occasion something doesn't occur when it should and if I could see the active Flag Status, I'd better know what was right or wrong.

Just a thought. ;^}

Many thanks,

me

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Originally Posted By: Ahbleza
Aren't you talking about the same thing as in the "Character Editor" to choose "Add all Town Maps" and "Add all Outdoors Maps"?
When you choose this option the Maps are completely revealed.
me
Similar, except only applying to one town rather than all towns. It wouldn't even be hard; maps are just a bitfield with one bit per terrain space.

Originally Posted By: Ahbleza
Back to the Node/Flag item...
In Scenario Editor there are several "Dump" selections: "Text Dump", "Monsters Dump", "Specials Dump", etc. A Player has the option to create a File of any of several options regarding the Scenario. And... a Player can modify the Party at any time, before or during a Game.
Is it practical to create a "Party Status Dump"?
That is, would it be possible, or practical, to do a "Dump" of the Game status of the Party; not the individual PC Attributes, but the status of the Flags, spcifically at that moment in the Game.
*I'm interested in detailing the Scenario.
I can find all the Nodes, Flags, etc. in a "Design State", but on occasion something doesn't occur when it should and if I could see the active Flag Status, I'd better know what was right or wrong.
Just a thought. ;^}
Many thanks,
me
Short answer: No, I don't intend to do a Party Status Dump.

Long answer: What you suggest would indeed be a useful feature for the character editor; I just think there is an even better way to do it than dumping stuff to a text file. Honestly, I'll probably not include the various text dumps in the final version of the scenario editor; they can be used for spell-checking, but not a whole lot else. I want to think of better ways to do all that.

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Thanx for the response.

It's not a really important issue, but would be handy for someone like me who is more interested in the editing rather than playing of the game.

At present I can 'search' for a particular Flag, note its location throughout the Scenario, and then figure out what did, or did not, happen.

I guess I was just hoping for a short-cut, or quicker way to do so.

I got involved in all of this to keep my hands and mind busy, so I guess what I'm doing is probably more effective anyhoo. ;^]

tx,

me

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FWIW...

I just re-read your answer and realized you said you intended to NOT include the various 'dumps' in the final Editor.

Is there a serious reason why you don't want to?

I realize that a lot of things can be found by reading the Items and Special Items, but I find the Text Dump and Specials Dump to be extremely valuable. Also, someone put a LOT of effort to include these Dumps in the present version.

For instance, both, (more so the Text Dump), give me the ability to include ALL conversations and events in a Walk-Through, rather than possibly, (probably), missing something important.

For my purposes, if you eliminated these Files, I would continue to use the Editor in its present state and ignore an Editor without at least the Text Dump and Specials Dump.

I don't want to upset your plan for the final version of the Editor, but would like to ask, please, that at least these two Dumps be included.

tx,

me

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Well, I don't want to include them in the final editor, but I'm not going to just pluck out a feature and throw it away. If I remove them, it'll be after I add a substitute feature. This applies more to the two originally present in Jeff's code to the ones added by Ishad Nha, but even his dumps I probably won't throw away without first making something that does the same job better.

 

I'll also add that it wouldn't have taken a lot of effort to add the dumps in the first place; all Ishad really had to do was create a function with a bajillion cout statements and output the right stuff in some format. Sure, he made an effort, but he didn't really make the effort to do it well; outputting to a text file is a less than ideal method.

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He takes a deep breath and says, "Thank You".

I have a bad habit of reading into things that which is not there.

My 'Hobby' is to disect the Scenarios to find all the "Goodies" and you, (all), have done a terrific job with the Editor/Program.

tx,

me

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I also am an analyst. I lack the creativeness to produce a scenario, but I love to dissect them in order to divine the full breadth of their secrets. Some scenarios have a lot of detail in them that it becomes a challenge to figure out what is needed in order to cause certain events to occur. That is why I wrote my own version of the scenario editor with a way to document the Stuff Done flags, and display their meaning while browsing through the special nodes views. The only piece I haven't added yet is a 'Where Used' index of the SD flags.

 

If you are running Windows, or can emulate it, it might be worth a peek. I am currently trying to port it to C so that Mac users will be able to use it.

 

Be aware that there may be bugs yet to discover and fix. If you run afoul of one of those nasty buggers (insectus programmis), email me with the symptoms and I will try to correct them.

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I don't remember if I've asked this before, but are there any plans for making the 'Use' function more useful? Perhaps a 'usable' special node (similar to look, enter, etc).

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Originally Posted By: Harehunter
The only piece I haven't added yet is a 'Where Used' index of the SD flags.
This sounds like a relatively simple thing to do, just by checking every place an SDF could possibly be used. Though, it would probably be better to maintain the information in a separate structure.

 

Originally Posted By: Harehunter
If you are running Windows, or can emulate it, it might be worth a peek. I am currently trying to port it to C so that Mac users will be able to use it.
I'm probably not going to use your editor for more than inspiration, since I'm (very slowly) working on a wxWidgets framework for BoE-style graphics.

 

Originally Posted By: Mistb0rn
I don't remember if I've asked this before, but are there any plans for making the 'Use' function more useful? Perhaps a 'usable' special node (similar to look, enter, etc).
Yes, of course.

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Quote:
since I'm (very slowly) working on a wxWidgets framework for BoE-style graphics.


In fact I am starting with a wxWidgets framework. Finding Code::Blocks is what inspired me to actually knuckle down and git'er'done.

You will probably finish your rewrite before I can, since I have only limited time to work on it. Being a Data Base Administrator looked like a fine place to be in my early days of programming, but now that I am one, I found out why DBA's are paid more; they have to work more.

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I suppose I should show you my code, then. So far I have a resource management system that mimicks the Mac Resource Manager, and a skeleton dialog/frame class.

 

I guess the easiest way would be to make a branch on the svn... except it's not at all based on the existing code, so it'd have to be an empty branch, which means it's not really a branch... but anyway, if anyone knows how to do such a thing, do let me know.

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Quote:
I guess the easiest way would be to make a branch on the svn... except it's not at all based on the existing code, so it'd have to be an empty branch, which means it's not really a branch... but anyway, if anyone knows how to do such a thing, do let me know.

You can put anything you want into a branch; it doesn't have to be intended to merge into trunk. Or you could just `svn mkdir` a totally new directory.

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I've actually thought of this quite a while ago, but I have such bad memory I never remembered to post it. Perhaps a new monster ability could be implemented: Regen. I was thinking it could go in the Create monster/fields slot, so that you can adjust what percentage of HP is restored per turn.

 

Also, does Death Touch actually inflict Death? The only effect I've seen from it is unblock-able damage.

 

Yet another monster ability! It could summon monsters right when it dies! Yaaay! laugh

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Monster regen doesn't really sound too useful to me. It's useful in games where the party/player can teleport away and rest up (see Angband) but you can't do that in BoE. I could see it being useful if you wanted a monster that had to be killed in one turn, or something; but otherwise it doesn't seem necessary.

 

Death Touch does not inflict death, and really should not. It's powerful enough enough already.

 

Summoning stuff on death can be done with a special chain, IIRC.

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Speaking on the topic of always-revealed maps: How about taking that a bit further? That is to say, being able to define areas in towns that are always explored/never explored by default - giving the ability to have a town that is fully explored aside from residences/storerooms/hidden evil lairs/secret tunnels and rooms.

 

Edit: I also have a suggestion for the scenario editor that I think should be relatively easy to implement: When dragging scrollbars (such as the scrollbar for the list of monsters), I would like the position of the list to change on-the-fly, instead of going to the specified spot on the list only after I release the scrollbar.

I hope that makes sense.

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Originally Posted By: Miramor
Monster regen doesn't really sound too useful to me. It's useful in games where the party/player can teleport away and rest up (see Angband) but you can't do that in BoE. I could see it being useful if you wanted a monster that had to be killed in one turn, or something; but otherwise it doesn't seem necessary.
I don't intend to use Regen on enemies, but more on friendlies that fight endless waves of monsters (possibly allies in some dungeon with spawning monsters).


Originally Posted By: Miramor
Summoning stuff on death can be done with a special chain, IIRC.
But I want the dead monster to summon wherever it is, and even if it was summoned itself. So let's say Monster A is at (45,9). The specials are set to summon Monster B, which is a counter-part of Monster A, at (46,10) since it's close by. But the player tries to run away from it, bringing it to (8,20). This is where it dies, and the node chain starts. But Monster B won't be summoned near (8,20) because it was originally set to (46,10). So Monster B won't appear as a counter-part, because it was summoned so far away.

Or you might use Capture Soul on it, then you summon it. At death, I want it to summon monsters nearby and in any circumstance, but special nodes can't connect the monster to summoning in every situation.

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Quote:
When dragging scrollbars (such as the scrollbar for the list of monsters), I would like the position of the list to change on-the-fly, instead of going to the specified spot on the list only after I release the scrollbar.


I tried what I think you are talking about, and my lists scroll nicely. I am using Windows XP. Are you on a Mac?

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Originally Posted By: Harehunter

I tried what I think you are talking about, and my lists scroll nicely. I am using Windows XP. Are you on a Mac?

Yeah, I guess I should've said so in the first place.

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Okay, first of all, I put my somewhat-working dialog framework code, as well as the resource manager, into a "wxframework" branch on the repository. This way, others can work on it if they wish.

 

Next, I agree that lists should scroll nicely. I don't know how easy it would be to do in QuickDraw, but I think the move to wxWidgets will likely just make it come naturally.

 

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by monster regeneration. Could you be more explicit? I can think of one or two meanings, but I don't know which you want.

 

And finally, about summoning stuff on death... there were plans to put in place "magic values" that can be used to access various things, such as the location a monster died at. So, with that, your summon on death idea would probably be possible even without adding a new ability type.

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Originally Posted By: Celtic Minstrel
I'm not entirely sure what you mean by monster regeneration. Could you be more explicit? I can think of one or two meanings, but I don't know which you want.
Let's say a monster has 500 HP. The first PC attacks, and the monster now has 410 HP. At the beginning of the second PC's turn, the monster now has 460 HP, then the 2nd PC attacks. Now it has 350 HP. At the beginning of the third PC's turn, it has 400 HP. At the beginning of every turn, the monster regains something like 10% of it's maximum health.

I apologize for not being clear the first time.
Originally Posted By: Celtic Minstrel
And finally, about summoning stuff on death... there were plans to put in place "magic values" that can be used to access various things, such as the location a monster died at. So, with that, your summon on death idea would probably be possible even without adding a new ability type.
smile

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In some scenarios, vital information is given in 6-paragraph dialogue boxes. These can't be recorded, so you'll end up having to write down everything you need to know. Any way to be able to record these like talking and encounter notes?

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'nother apparent bug: if you set up a town with a bunch of "lever" special nodes, the levers will display their messages improperly. The first lever will show the messages for *all* the levers; the second will show all the messages except for what ought to be the first lever's; the third; all except for the first and the second messages; etc.

 

For instance, say you have three levers for summoning three different types of golems. The first will read:

 

Quote:

Pull to summon Type 1 Golems.

 

Pull to summon Type 2 Golems.

 

Pull to summon Type 3 Golems.

 

The second will read:

 

Quote:

Pull to summon Type 2 Golems.

 

Pull to summon Type 3 Golems.

 

Etcetera.

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Out of curiosity, has there been any intentions to merge Ormus's new (as in 2009) fancy scenario editor code into CBoE? I don't know how compatible the code would be, but some of the features it appears to sport are pretty nice...

 

(link)

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Originally Posted By: Karoka
-previous post-
I'm pretty sure you all just completely ignored it for over a month. cry

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I'm sure there's an easy way to implement it, but until then then there's always print screen.

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To Karoka:

I don't think anyone is being ignored. Most everyone has moved on, or has other things going on in their life. I'm retired and read these columns almost every day, but sometimes miss something because I think one of the members with programming ability might answer.

The only thing I can respond to is your question about recording vital information while playing a game.

I've made a 'hobby' of creating somewhat major Walk-throughs for Scenarios and, to the best of my ability, I include everything the Scenario has to offer. I do the Walk-Through as follows:

First, I make a *.doc of the ScenText. I edit it by eliminating all the unnecessary unused items and then use it as the reference for the Walk-Through. When a conversation, event, whatever, occurs I simply highlight the information, 'cut' it and then 'paste' it into the Walk-Through.

* Note: If you're not familiar with MS Word, or whatever, all you need to do to find the data in the ScenText is to use the drop-down menu, (ctrl+E, ctrl+F: Edit/Find) to locate the exact data you are looking for.

This may not be "kosher" for someone who is playing the Game seriously, but for the sake of documentation and being sure to include everything, it works for me.

This may not be what you want to hear, but it's one solution.

The other solution is to do what many, many, many Players have been doing for years and that is to use a pencil and paper and suffer through the actual "Taking Notes".

Hope this helps,

me

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Having a means of recording that kind of the 6-paragraph dialog box is an excellent idea, in my opinion, and that's yet another of those little things that used to bug me about the previous Exile games. I don't know that I'll be able to do anything about it for a while, though.

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What I'm doing is making sub-files to assist me while creating a Walk-Through for a Scenario. It would work for any other reason too, except for actually "playing" a Game. It would be "cheating" by knowing what is going to happen and how to take advantage.

If/when "a while" has passed and you would like any help doing the anything similar to what I'm doing, feel free to ask.

I'm not much of a Player, and had a lot of trouble at first, but now, all the work done to make the OBoE available makes what I'm doing "fun" again.

me

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Sorry about missing your post, Karoka. That is indeed an excellent point and something worth adding to the game.

 

By the way, icelizarrd, how's your merging of the code-bases progressing? Or did it stall?

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Originally Posted By: Celtic Minstrel
By the way, icelizarrd, how's your merging of the code-bases progressing? Or did it stall?
It did kind of stall, regrettably. >_>

Currently, though, I have the (I think) fully merged code running on Windows. You can make a new party and start it on a scenario, but loading and saving games doesn't work yet. And the outdoors terrain is completely screwed up: when you leave a town, you end up surrounded by cave walls no matter what the terrain is supposed to be. I'm thinking there's some silly offset or indexing problem there, since I had something similar happen with indoors terrain at first. (Or it has to do with loading the scenario improperly. Or I forgot to delete all the references to the older "terrain" arrays; that might explain why it loads cave walls.) I've just been too lazy to track it down.

There are also some string issues: messages will display incorrect or empty strings, and some in-game character dialog is messed up. A few item/dialog icons don't display correctly. (Index issues again, I'm sure.) But, other than these bugs, most things seem to be working normally.

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I hope this place isn't dead yet. So anyways, here's what I've come up with (this list will get bigger until someone replies):

 

- For the 'Have This Class' and related If-Then nodes, put in the SDF boxes 'Have this amount' and 'If have this class'. Then replace Extra2a with 'If not enough, call this'

- Move Monster. As in you can move a species or a monster # to a different place in the town, without interfering with it's current HP.

- Monster Call Special. A monster can call a special if it walks over it. You choose it be a a specific species, attitude, number, or just any.

- SDF Viewer. Did I already talk about this? Whatever. So it will basically give you a list of all Stuff Done Flags, like what Harehhunter did (it was awesome!)

- A special that will permanently increase the power or ability strength of an item. Or, it can be turned into a shop.

- Change the Hit Space node to do any kind of damage.

- Have certain scenarios "linked" allowing you to keep all SDFs, Special Items, etc. from the previous scenario. I propose it will be reset anyway if not done in the right "order".

- "Call Town Node" special. This would allow you to call a special from the town of your choosing.

- An import feature that lets you import monsters and/or items #x-y from another scenario.

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It's dead, but if it's not resurrected I will be severely disappointed. wink

 

Most of those are very good ideas. Some of them may already be on the todo list.

 

Originally Posted By: Flame Blade
- Change the Do Damage node to do any kind of damage.
What kind of damage does it not do?

 

Originally Posted By: Flame Blade
- Have certain scenarios "linked" allowing you to keep all SDFs, Special Items, etc. from the previous scenario. I propose it will be reset anyway if not done in the right "order".
I seem to recall an initial implementation of "campaign flags" which are carried between scenarios; SDFs should not be carried between scenarios. Special items never came up; that's an interesting idea, but I don't think it's possible since special items are intrinsically linked to their scenario. Assuming campaign flags though, one could set a campaign flag to say "has special item X" and then in the next scenario give special item X if that flag is set.

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Originally Posted By: Celtic Minstrel
What kind of damage does it not do?
Oops, sorry. I meant to say Hit Space.

Originally Posted By: Celtic Minstrel
I seem to recall an initial implementation of "campaign flags" which are carried between scenarios; SDFs should not be carried between scenarios. Special items never came up; that's an interesting idea, but I don't think it's possible since special items are intrinsically linked to their scenario. Assuming campaign flags though, one could set a campaign flag to say "has special item X" and then in the next scenario give special item X if that flag is set.
That sounds cool. And then items that can't be brought to other scenarios (such as special graphics) can be given there, too.

Oh, and what's your estimate on when the wxWidgets will be finished?

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I have a bug to report for Classic BoE 20110205... The "Fewer sounds" and "No targeting line" preference options aren't being saved with the party's save file, nor with the global game preferences. The options thus have to be set again every time a save file is loaded.

 

(These options are useful for preventing crashes in Wine, so I really think they should be kept in future versions, BTW.)

 

Edit: err, I take that back. The "Fewer sounds" preference is saved, I must have deselected it by accident. And it doesn't do a very good job preventing crashes either. D'oh.

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Originally Posted By: Karoka
Oh, and what's your estimate on when the wxWidgets will be finished?
If I were working on it right now, I might have an estimate. However, I haven't worked on it for quite awhile. Currently, all I have is a prototype BoE dialog manager, which isn't even feature-complete, and resource manager framework.

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Okay, legit bug this time: the bonus item field appears to do nothing at all for missile launchers. A +50 bow, as far as I can tell, functions exactly the same as a +2 one, i.e. you still can barely hit anything with it. I'm betting this is not intended behavior, since the bonus field is the only difference between the various kinds of bows and crossbows in BladBase.exs; and the way things are now, a magic bow is no different from a cavewood bow.

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I've got one more suggestion. Don't know if it's been made before, but I'll make it. It would be nice if you could remove the "Monster HP Doubling Effect" that occurs if you bring a high level party into a low level scenario. Having to hack and slash through huge walls of HP is not exactly fun.

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Actually I believe a setting for that already exists in the CBoE Scenario Editor. Should be in the scenario details/difficulty/rating window, I think.

 

Edit: IOW you can just edit the scenario so it doesn't boost hitpoints, since the CBoE editor ignores passwords.

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Three more:

- Replace 'Increment flag' with 'Edit flag', or something like that. You can add/subtract/multiply/divide the value of the flag by the number of your choice. Or you can divide that value by the value of another SDF.

Click to reveal..
Code:
Stuff Done Flags:SDF Part A ___                  SDF Part B ___Message 1, Message 2, Pict:First part of message ___Second part of message ___Method Used ___Extra 1a and 1b:Value Changed By ___Operation ___Extra 2a and 2b:Second Flag Part A ___Second Flag Part B ___Jump to this special: ___
Method Used: Determines which of the two choices are used. 1 for using Extra 1, and 2 for using Extra 2.

- A 'Stuff Done Compare' node that gives a little more freedom

Click to reveal..
Code:
Stuff Done Flags:SDF Part A ___                  SDF Part B ___Message 1, Message 2, Pict:First part of message ___Second part of message ___Unused ___Extra 1a and 1b:2nd SDF Part A ___2nd SDF Part B ___Extra2a and 2b:Call this if first flag higher ___Call this if first flag is lower ___Otherwise call this special ___

- The ability to connect towns as if they were outdoors. So that while your playing the scenario, you can walk right into town x from town y without using special nodes. The things the towns share will be the same as outdoor areas.

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I've never liked 'Summoning', (see Drakefire's comments regarding, "The Fallacy of Summoning"), and begrudgingly accept that I have to eliminate anything summoned by the enemy NPC's.

When a Player adds an available NPC to the Party and that NPC has the ability to 'Summon', then those summoned NPC's are still left around after the Player 'Uses' the Party NPC back into the Party.

Normally, I'd just walk away from those summoned NPC's, but if I accidentally, (unwittingly), hurt one, then I have to battle them until I've destroyed them.

Is there any chance that a line could be added to remove all the summoned NPC's when the Party NPC is 'Used' back into the Party?

If it's more trouble than it's worth, then I retract the question. I just wanted to point out that by having three Party NPC's in Al's "Castle Relaford", it created a lot of frustrating clean-up.

me

P.S. I only used the Spell Casting NPC's the first couple of times I played it and since have done without them.

It just seemed that this might be a relatively simple line of Code to install.

me, again

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Originally Posted By: Karoka
Three more:
- Replace 'Increment flag' with 'Edit flag', or something like that. You can add/subtract/multiply/divide the value of the flag by the number of your choice. Or you can divide that value by the value of another SDF.
I think my initial sketch involved having separate nodes for add/subtract/multiply/divide and so forth, though your version's not a bad idea either.

Originally Posted By: Karoka
- A 'Stuff Done Compare' node that gives a little more freedom
Not a bad idea, I guess.

Originally Posted By: Karoka
- The ability to connect towns as if they were outdoors. So that while your playing the scenario, you can walk right into town x from town y without using special nodes. The things the towns share will be the same as outdoor areas.
I'm not sure this is worth the effort. You can already connect them almost as if they were outdoors by using special nodes, the only real difference being you can't see from one into the other.

Tonweya, I'm not actually sure what you mean; don't summoned things normally disappear after a few moves? If this isn't the case due to them being summoned by a special node, then we can add something to the special node to make it the case.

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It was quite a while back so I'll have to go back to re-play that section of the game to be sure. (I keep the string of 'saves' from some of the Scenarios.)

But, IIRC, I had accidentally attacked one of the NPC's that a Party NPC had summoned during the assault on the UNL Fort. I didn't really notice that this character was still attacking my Party until after the battle was over and I couldn't get away from it, so I had to kill it.

Yes, normally the NPC's summoned by the "Bad Guys" do disappear soon within a move or two and I assumed this one would, but it did not and I assumed it was summoned by one of the NPC's that the Player can add to the Party.

(For those who are familiar with the Scenario, I had Raven, Silnos and Tranosss in the Party, so I don't know which had summoned it.)

I just happened to remember this and thought I'd ask about it. I'll re-play the event and be more specific as to what happens.

me

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If they did not disappear, I suspect the "summoned" NPCs may have been part of a scripted encounter or special spell.

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It would appear that I owe a big appology.

I dug out the old saves and played the scene out several times, even deliberately injuring NPC's summoned by the Party NPC's. I did not fight back and allowed these summoned NPC's all the time needed and they were all gone within four moves.

I can only blame it on a failing memory and the passage of time. It had been a few years since I played the Scenario with that type Party.

Again, I'm sorry and hope I didn't cause anyone any trouble.

me

P.S. However, I do have another question, but will post it separately.

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'Nother bug: you can look inside a container and retrieve objects from it even if looking in it is blocked by a special node. I discovered this when replaying Falling Stars - I could grab Heartseeker from its chest even when the pixies had prohibited me from doing so, and would only be teleported away after I had grabbed it. I'd say this is potentially game-breaking.

 

FWIW I have a backup of the relevant save file, feel free to message me for it.

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I don't know if it's just me, but when I try to use the 'Text Response?' node, it doesn't work properly. As in, only one of the possible nodes are called no matter what I say when I debug it.

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