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Celtic Minstrel

Feature Suggestions, Bug Reports, and so on

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No, I'm at the HEAD revision, it's just personal preference, I guess. Back from when I edited scripts on the Wii's Internet browser (just trust me when I say it sucks), and you had to move line-by-line down a file, that semicolon you forgot on line 5,726 becomes a much larger pain in the behind.

 

I guess to me it seems like better practice to separate all your functions into files containing similar functions and constants and such. Have one source file for your sounds, one for handling the party data, and so on.

 

Is there a practical consideration? Does the compiler get bogged down with too many files? Will the resulting executable be giganticker than need be? Am I just completely missing something here?

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Quote:
I guess to me it seems like better practice to separate all your functions into files containing similar functions and constants and such. Have one source file for your sounds, one for handling the party data, and so on.

This is basically what is already done, it's just that how one defines the categories is often subjective, and there may just be a lot of code for a given subunit of the program.

Quote:
Is there a practical consideration? Does the compiler get bogged down with too many files? Will the resulting executable be giganticker than need be? Am I just completely missing something here?

It depends on details. Assuming that we're talking about a C or C++ compiler here (since that's what's relevant to the codebase in question) having many, many little header files will slow it down, although only a little bit, since the way the preprocessor handles #include is basically to go find the indicated file and paste it in. Once this is finished happening, though, the resulting file will be almost the same regardless of how you had it divided up originally. (The only difference I can think of would be in the little indicators that the compiler leaves for itself to say which bits originally came from which file.)

In general, having many small implementation files is considered good, since each implementation file is sort of the nucleus of a 'translation unit', the actual unit of stuff which gets compiled. (One translation unit = one implementation file + all the header files it includes.) Since each translation unit is compiled alone (and the results of all of these separate compilations are then linked), a smart build system looks at which files were changed and recompiles only the affected translation units. This means that if you change something in one implementation file, the compiler only needs to be run over that file, plus the included header files.

There are limits to how much splitting up implementation files helps, however. One thing to consider is that if you change a header which is used in multiple translation units, you end up having to recompile all of those translation units. Another point is that the code in a give implementation file is usually dwarfed by the amount of code in the headers it includes; it's easy to write a few line C++ program which turns into over a hundred thousand lines when run through the preprocessor. This is one of the main reasons that C++ programs are known for being slow to compile.

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I've noticed that if two nodes are played at once, the second one won't be played. For example, a timer is set to hit a space, and a monster just happens to be on that space. That monster just happened to have a special node connected to it, and the hit space kills it. Since the timer node was already playing, the second node will be ignored, causing whatever important thing to happen, not happen. Makes sense?

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Hmm. Not sure if anyone has reported this yet, but: if the Scenario Editor doesn't have write permissions on a scenario you're trying to save, it crashes with a message about "Error 101." Kind of minor issue as lack of write permissions isn't likely to occur, but it would be good for error messages to be more descriptive, e.g. "Error: unable to write to the scenario file."

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I coulda sworn I posted this the other day...

 

But it would be really great if there was a complete overhaul of string handling by nodes. I mean, it's freaking ridiculous that the engines string processing tops out at 'if this SDF then say this'. Some more advanced things, like variables or dynamically created text (eg being able to output a generated value to a message, etc) would be nice.

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Originally Posted By: He fined Angle is trying to kill
But it would be really great if there was a complete overhaul of string handling by nodes. I mean, it's freaking ridiculous that the engines string processing tops out at 'if this SDF then say this'. Some more advanced things, like variables or dynamically created text (eg being able to output a generated value to a message, etc) would be nice.
This would indeed be nice. I don't recall making any specific plans in this direction, but I think you can expect something in this direction... most likely similar to what Blades of Avernum has.

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Okay, the CPU usage thing is not just when editing terrain; just leave the Scenario Editor on for a few minutes and it will start using CPU time like crazy. And it's not limited to one version of Wine either; I get the same behavior with both 1.0.1 and the latest 1.3.x version... Can anyone advise me on how to find out where the CPU use is ocurring?

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You're on Linux, I assume (since otherwise you wouldn't be using Wine)? I think that OProfile might be what you're looking for, or perhaps CodeAnalyst. If the problem also exists on Windows, though, it might be easier to solve it there (for someone who has Windows).

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Yeah, I'm using Debian Squeeze.

 

I took a look at OProfile... To be blunt it was quite opaque to me. Alas, I'm a CS student, not a programming wiz.

 

I figured I might be able to spot something with winedbg if I'm lucky, but I'm having trouble getting it to attach to the right process. If I tell it to start the Scenario Editor, it starts the game instead; if I start the scenario editor and then tell it to attach to that, it says it can't attach (error 87).

 

I do wonder if this is a Wine problem now... Seems odd that it would go unnoticed on Windows.

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I noticed once that if I held down the 5 key (skip turn or wait or whatever) while in combat mode, the game would hold at about 30% processor usage (~600 MHz on that machine). Also, it would ocassionally freeze for a couple seconds when saving a scenario to my slow-ass flash drive. Other than that, I personally have never noticed any performance things on my windows machine.

 

I'll try and replicate this error tomorrow on my Linux partition, and see if it's just your comp or something.

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I don't know if anyone said this before, but I noticed that when your in combat mode, hostile monsters will try to pass by friendly ones to get to you. It's like they know that if your out the picture, they win.

 

Was this intended?

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Originally Posted By: Karoka
I don't know if anyone said this before, but I noticed that when your in combat mode, hostile monsters will try to pass by friendly ones to get to you. It's like they know that if your out the picture, they win.

Was this intended?
I'm going to guess it probably is intended. That said, it might be worth tweaking a little.

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'twould seem to me that is how we go after the Monsters, so that would be how they would come after us.

Don't we go after the Lich rather than the Ghouls and Zombies?

Wouldn't you expect the Ghouls and Zombies to come after us before any summoned, (friendly), Monsters?

Makes sense to me.

Fair's fair, (in love and war).

me

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After a little experimenting, I found this out about the power level of exploding ammo:

 

1-14: Exploding ammo

15-19: Nothing happens

20-54: Something related to Divine Thud

55&Up: Nothing happens

 

EDIT: New idea. If an item has -1 charges, then it's unlimited ammo.

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The ability to give something unlimited charges would be nice... with the caveat that it would also be nice to be able to specify a recharge time. Not sure what the best way to implement that would be; I just think it would be cool to have e.g. an item that could activate for some powerful effect once every thousand turns, or something.

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Just my opinion, but...

I don't feel that BoE, or any of the Exile Games, were meant to incorporate Mega-Everything.

I'm not attempting to discourage any of the ideas posted here, but feel that if Players want to create Scenarios that reflect these characteristics, then there should be an additional Rating Designation that would indicate to the potential Player what these Characteristics are.

Perhaps a Rating similar to the standard "G", "PG", "R", or "X" ratings, and/or an addition to the "Easy", "Hard", etc. ratings would suffice.

Although I did play and enjoy the Scenario, "doommoon.zip", some time ago, I felt that it departed from the traditional style of the Exile Games significantly and would probably have placed it well down on my "To Do" list had I realized what would occur in the Story-Line.

Again, this is just my personal opinion, but if major modifications to the Playing Style of new Scenarios are being discussed here, I'm just suggesting that any potential Author might want to advise the potential Players what they should expect to encounter in their Scenario.

me

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Originally Posted By: Karoka
EDIT: New idea. If an item has -1 charges, then it's unlimited ammo.
Though, unlimited ammo is already possible, isn't it?

Originally Posted By: Miramor
The ability to give something unlimited charges would be nice... with the caveat that it would also be nice to be able to specify a recharge time. Not sure what the best way to implement that would be; I just think it would be cool to have e.g. an item that could activate for some powerful effect once every thousand turns, or something.
I think I intended to do something like BoA's once per day option.

Originally Posted By: Ahbleza
Just my opinion, but...
I don't feel that BoE, or any of the Exile Games, were meant to incorporate Mega-Everything.
I'm not attempting to discourage any of the ideas posted here, but feel that if Players want to create Scenarios that reflect these characteristics, then there should be an additional Rating Designation that would indicate to the potential Player what these Characteristics are.
Perhaps a Rating similar to the standard "G", "PG", "R", or "X" ratings, and/or an addition to the "Easy", "Hard", etc. ratings would suffice.
Although I did play and enjoy the Scenario, "doommoon.zip", some time ago, I felt that it departed from the traditional style of the Exile Games significantly and would probably have placed it well down on my "To Do" list had I realized what would occur in the Story-Line.
Again, this is just my personal opinion, but if major modifications to the Playing Style of new Scenarios are being discussed here, I'm just suggesting that any potential Author might want to advise the potential Players what they should expect to encounter in their Scenario.
me
I don't really think it's necessary; of course, if an author wants to put a note in the readme, then that's not a problem, but the whole point of designing a scenario is to make something new, isn't it? If every scenario followed the "traditional style of the Exile games", it would become boring or monotonous or something after awhile.

As for the features thing? BoE certainly isn't going to incorporate "Mega-Everything"; with the exception of fixing things that seem to be bugs, the core mechanics are not going to be changed, so anything that can't fit in with the core mechanics probably won't be added, but in the current version designers are quite limited with the options in what can be done. Many of the additions simply involve exposing internal game features to the designer, or doing it in a more open way; others are bringing back feature from the earlier games.

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I have another question; (probably already been asked somewhere, but I don't know how to find it,) Are there any plans for allowing you to copy/paste sections of towns? Even just a "duplicate town" option would save a lot of time when making different versions for major events/cutscenes/whatever.

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'Import Town' in the Scenario tab (between File and Town) copies any town from any scenario you have in the folder, and pastes it onto the one that's currently loaded.

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I always thought import town overwrote the town with the same number, not pasted it into the current town, but maybe I'm remembering wrongly.

 

Edit: I stand corrected, towns can indeed be duplicated through import. Thanks! This will come in very handy. :-)

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"Drain Missiles" has you use two charges instead of one when you shoot; in other words, if you have a stack of ten arrows and equip a bow with "Drain Missiles" ability, you actually have five shots.

 

I don't remember what "Soul Sucker" does.

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As Mystic said, Draining Weapons or Ammunition use up extra Ammunition. IIRC, Soulsucker type Weapons drain extra Health Points from the Enemy. The amount of damage depends on the Ability Strength of the Item.

me

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I stand corrected.

Because I don't trust "memory" or "think", especially at this age, I looked up abilities in the documentation.

Soulsucker: When it hits, the Wielder is healed.

Regardless of what the Author calls the Weapon, they can set the Weapon's Ability Strength on a scale of 1 to 10 above and beyond its Level, Awkwardness, Bonus, etc.

Therefore, each time the Party Member hits the opponent, they are healed to the degree of the Weapon's Ability.

me

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Originally Posted By: Mistb0rn
I always thought import town overwrote the town with the same number, not pasted it into the current town, but maybe I'm remembering wrongly.
It overwrites the currently loaded town, not the town with the same number.

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Could a monster have an 'infinite' amount of health? Meaning, that you can attack that monster all day, but it will never die. Invulnerability doesn't do this. It gives a monster super armor and regenerate all its health immediately, just as long it doesn't die in a single hit.

 

Also, could it be resistant/immune to attacks just like it could be with fire, cold, magic, and poison? You can kill a monster with magic, but melee and archery have no effect. If it's immune, it'll show just a blood splat; no number, because there is no damage.

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Originally Posted By: Karoka
Could a monster have an 'infinite' amount of health? Meaning, that you can attack that monster all day, but it will never die. Invulnerability doesn't do this. It gives a monster super armor and regenerate all its health immediately, just as long it doesn't die in a single hit.


With removal of certain limits it could just be given an obscene amount of health...

Quote:

Also, could it be resistant/immune to attacks just like it could be with fire, cold, magic, and poison? You can kill a monster with magic, but melee and archery have no effect. If it's immune, it'll show just a blood splat; no number, because there is no damage.


High armor can do this. Removal of limits would help, but it's *hard* to hit anything with 50 armor.

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FWIW: Check the "Mystic Guardian", specifically the stats, in Alcritas' "Falling Stars".

me

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Personally, I've never found giving something 2500 health and invulnerability to be a problem. For all practical purposes, this monster is unkillable.

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Originally Posted By: Karoka
Also, could it be resistant/immune to attacks just like it could be with fire, cold, magic, and poison? You can kill a monster with magic, but melee and archery have no effect. If it's immune, it'll show just a blood splat; no number, because there is no damage.
I had intended to make it possible to set resistances for each damage type, sort of like you can in BoA.

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I hate to ask about modifications, especially after all the greatly appreciated work you guys, (?), have already done with this system, but...

When clicking on the "Load Game" tab with the Original BoE Program, you went directly to the list of "Saved Games".

When clicking on the "Load Game" tab with the Updated BoE Program, I have to search back through the "Tree" to find the list of "Saved Games" in the "Scenarios" branch.

Is this just something askew with my system, or is it something that can be modified in the Updated Program?

And a second question...

One of the Editing Options is, "Has enough statistic?" which allows you to specify the amount of and the specific type of Statistic. The Option says you should check the Docs for the list of Statistics. I've looked through the "Docs" numerous times trying to find the listing of these Statistics, but can't seem to find it anywhere.

Any help on either of these two items would be appreciated.

thanks, me

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First question: That's something that can be fixed. I have no idea how to do it on Windows; I believe the Mac version does it automatically, but of course it's not currently stable.

 

Second question: I know there's a list somewhere, but I'm not exactly sure where. Most likely in the appendices. I think the statistics are numbered starting at 0 for intelligence and going in the order they appear in the stats window, though I could be a bit off there.

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First answer: Thanks; it's only a minor inconvenience, but would seem to be more practical to go directly to the appropriate "Save".

Second answer: Again, thanks. I've read and re-read the docs that come with the game and just haven't been able to find a list of "Statistics", or even an indication to them. In my "Hobby" I have to search a Scenario in reverse by starting with an event and then reading back through the Nodes. When I see a number for "Statistic" I've been trying to deduce what it might be. From what you just said, I'd presume the same. Attributes are specifically named. For instance, "Has enough Cave Lore?"

Again, thanks a bunch for all you've done. Although I'm not much of a "Player", rooting out facts and details is more my "Game".

me

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Ohh, wait, is "Has enough statistic" a node that didn't exist as such before the game was updated? The statistic list is definitely somewhere in the appendices though; it might be under the "Alter Statistic" node.

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You're right... I just wasn't looking in the right place.

The Node, "Has enough Statistic?" is under the "If - Then" gouping and when it said to check the "docs" I went straight to the listings at the end of the Documents where the Alchemy, Mage Spells, Priest Spells, etc. are located.

Following your direction, I looked at all six groupings and in the "Affect PC's" group I found "Affect Statistic" and in the Documentation it lists 18 stats.

* "Affect Statistic" is Type 98 in the Documentation.

I was afraid that I had a corrupted file, but it was just me.

FWIW: I checked both the Original and the Classic.

The Classic has both the "Affect Statistic" in the "Affect PC's" grouping and "Has enough Statistic?" in the "If - Then" grouping.

The Original has only "Affect Statistic" in the Affect PC's grouping.

So, as you said, the "Has enough Statistic?" must have been added during the upgrade.

Again, I thank you greatly for all you've done and continue to do.

me

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Originally Posted By: Miramor
No flow chart or such for special nodes, no SDF viewer at all. Unless I'm missing something huge, the only way to keep track of your scenario is to keep really extensive notes. You basically work blind.
Perhaps and SDF viewer could be incorporated? And something to keep track of special nodes?

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You have a good point and, yes, I wear glasses for reading, but I'm also 70 now. ;^}

I don't use them for playing, but rather, for documentation of a Scenario. I want to be accurate, so I hand-write all the Nodes of a Town quite often.

I have numerous MS-XL Spread Sheets that I use for keeping track of Nodes, etc.

It's part of the "fun" but some sort of "In-Game Node Viewer" would be an incredible advantage.

me

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Originally Posted By: Karoka
Originally Posted By: Miramor
No flow chart or such for special nodes, no SDF viewer at all. Unless I'm missing something huge, the only way to keep track of your scenario is to keep really extensive notes. You basically work blind.
Perhaps and SDF viewer could be incorporated? And something to keep track of special nodes?
Can you explain in more detail what you mean by both of those?

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I can only speak from my point of view, but...

In the Editor Mode, the drop-down menu for the 'Scenario' group gives one the ability to list: Data, Text, Shopping, Monster, Specials and Object groups; lists that I find extremely important and thank you all for creating.

At present, I can make a list of all the 'Specials' and then find, (alt + E, alt + F), by identifying the specific Flag I'm looking for to know all the locations in the Scenario and what it does at each location.

I then have to figure out why that Flag is in a particular state to know why it is, or is not, doing a particular function. Basically, I'm doing the same thing the Author has to do when writing a Scenario.

99% of the time, I simply haven't done something, but have learned the long way around what I need to do.

I believe that what Karoka is asking is that if a Player knows what Flag is supposed to be in what State, then some sort of "In-Game" Viewer to display a Flag's present state, might be "Handy".

However, one would need to already know what that state should be and in retrospect, I don't know if this would be worth the effort, other than gaining the sense of accomplishing it.

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I think it might be cool to have a flowchart-looking thing, similar to this layout, that could show how long node trees, especially those if/then ones, work without having to click eighty billion things and be confused. Maybe it could even be used to pass arguments to nodes; this would be really useful once text-manipulation gets worked on some.

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Yes, that would be cool... Or something purely text based even. For instance:

 

Code:
112 Has item? no --> 113 Display message   yes    |    v145 Has special item? no --> 146 Display message   yes    |    v147 Create monster

 

More detailed would obviously be better, but anything that displayed node chains would be an improvement, I think.

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Originally Posted By: Ahbleza
In the Editor Mode, the drop-down menu for the 'Scenario' group gives one the ability to list: Data, Text, Shopping, Monster, Specials and Object groups; lists that I find extremely important and thank you all for creating.
I dislike these and want to remove them from the final product; they're an ugly and hacky way of doing it. I won't actually remove them until I think of a better alternative, though.

The flowchart idea is a good one, though not an easy one. Another thing I should do is, when editing a node, show a list of nodes that call it which you can use to jump back to one of them.

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Are there any plans for an option to auto-reveal a city's map? I know you can set towns to unmappable, but I have a few ideas that would be greatly aided by an always-explored map.

 

Or a node option to reveal/hide the entirety of a city's map. That would also be useful.

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