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Why do you all like Avernum so much?, Jw, not saying anythings wrong w/ it but from what I played it didnt really seem that fun? Which one is the most fun do you think? I'm just so confused to why you all love Avernum so much....T_T

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And the first three Avernums allow the people who aren't cool enough to like Exile to have a chance to experience said plot. tongue

 

Dikiyoba.

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What made it not fun? The engine isn't terribly sophisticated in A1-A3, and even A4-A5 aren't immensely complex, but that's no change from Geneforge. The plots are okay, particularly in A2, but not really anything to write home about. For my money, Avernum wins on atmosphere and good writing for the minor bits. All of it is just very well portrayed, as is the case for all Spiderweb games. And the underground setting is neat, the cast of characters (mostly minor, but characters still) intriguing, and the villains suitably villainous.

 

—Alorael, who is now considering the fact that descriptive writing is an entirely dead art for games. Blocks of text upon entering rooms, encountering enemies, or stumbling upon this or that just don't happen outside shareware indie games now, and even pretty graphics usually don't measure up to good text.

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Plus the first three games allowed you to go where ever you wanted most of the time until you died. No being pushed into a pure linear plot.

 

You will next kill that monster because that what the game designer wants and you can't do anything else until then. frown

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Agreed, the non-linear game play is a huge reason I love all of Jeff's games. For example, in A2 after emerging from Vahnatai lands you can start tackling almost any part of Avernum. You can go to the castle, clear out the spiral crypt, or head north and check out the destruction of Cotra. The option to choose I would say is the number one reason.

 

The second reason would be open ended character development. You can make your party as you choose and develop them how you see fit. In addition, in A3 and A5 you can join the anama (or deal with Gladwell in A5). I find these additional, non-plot critical, options extremely attractive. The subtle things in A3 are great too - fake anama rings are especially inventive.

 

I believe the combination of these two things, and others I have not listed, make the Avernum series one of the most inventive series of games out there. I am still partial to the Geneforge series, but the Avernum series is still fantastic.

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Originally Posted By: Alorael
—Alorael, who is now considering the fact that descriptive writing is an entirely dead art for games. Blocks of text upon entering rooms, encountering enemies, or stumbling upon this or that just don't happen outside shareware indie games now, and even pretty graphics usually don't measure up to good text.


I agree wholeheartedly. I've been ranting about this to Diki, Bain, Nikki, and anyone else who will listen. As the visual display gets prettier, the writing gets worse. Just look at Exile I and Avernum 1. Which intro sets the mood better? Which has the pretty accompanying pictures? I haven't played past the intro in A1, but I imagine that other long descriptions have been similarly cut down for the attention-deficit crowd.

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Um, no. A great deal of A1 is a E1's text copied verbatim. The intro and maybe a little bit of dialogue are the big changes from what I can remember, though it's admittedly been a long time since I fired up E1.

 

In fact, if you look at the Geneforge series I think the trend may be slightly reversed. G1 was very text-box averse. By G4, at least, this wasn't so much the case.

 

—Alorael, whose point was more about bigger games. Jeff's use of writing may have changed some, but the bigger companies have changed more.

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Originally Posted By: Memetically Verboten
... pretty graphics usually don't measure up to good text.


I'll speculate that 'DOOM' is what happened to gaming. No new game comes from a major developer these days unless unless it's a 1st person shooter. There are a few exceptions like Civilization X, but that points to the other half of the problem: namely that the big boys are unwilling to try anything new. Every game released now has to either be a sequel to an established title, or dreadfully similar to every other new game coming out. For an extreme case, look to Fallout 3: not only did they piggyback off a popular series, but they changed from the isometric viewpoint to FPS. Oh, they also jettisoned the humor that was a hallmark of the originals. About the only thing the new game has in common with the classics is that it also has lots of bugs!

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You really need to expand your view on mainstream games. There are a LOT more main stream games that are not 1st person shooters then there are first person shooters. And theres a lot of innovation. On the flip side, I see little innovation on the hands of small-scale games. Jeff makes excellent single-player RPG's, no doubt about it, but there never ground breaking. Even Geneforge is pretty much a regular fantasy RPG with a Science Fiction twist.

 

PS: Fallout 3 was never meant to go with the early games. It was meant as a stand-alone product, which is why its so different from the earlier Fallouts. They named it 3 because it is the third in the series, not because its the third Fallout game. Also, Fallout can be played in a 3rd person perspective.

 

The Great Archon

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Originally Posted By: Master Ackrovan
They named it 3 because it is the third in the series, not because its the third Fallout game.


read this to yourself and tell me how it makes sense

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It is the third in a series of games called "Fallout," but it is not truly a Fallout game? You could argue this, but they hyped it pretty hard as the literal and spiritual successor to Fallout 1 and Fallout 2.

 

—Alorael, who is pretty sure no one is shocked by the lack of innovation in the computer game business. It's much the same as movies and books: being conservative may churn out lots of schlock, but it also tends to bring in steady profits and less risk.

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Basically as was previously said, I like the Avernum series for the open-endedness and that you can in a sense "create your own adventure," as cheesy as it sounds. For me, I never got into the Geneforge series becuase there, from my experience, isn't as much you can do and explore, while it basically retains the same style of combat as all of the other games.

 

-Spartacus, who find it too tedious to type out signatures like this to do it any more after this, just made his first post on this forum.

 

EDIT: Just to add something, which you will probably shoot me for, I have never really paid attention to much of the storyline in any of the games.

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Ok...This got a bit out of hand...lol... I now love avernum 3, I think, personally, that A3 is better than E3. But fee free to contradict me, please, I want to know your opinoins on it.

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That's fine with me, everyone has a right to an opinion.

 

I prefer E3 to A3, for several reasons. I find E3 easier (especially the golems). The Exile series in general has a larger variety of spells. E3 has a nice money cheat that was removed in A3 rewrite. E3 also had a very well-done cutscene loop on the menu screen.

 

Of course, that doesn't mean I don't like A3; I do like it, but for different reasons. It has a better engine and more side quests. The alien beasts seemed to be easier, too. The only thing I don't like about A3 is the laser puzzles. mad

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Quote:
I prefer E3.....E3 has a nice money cheat


Why does that not surprise me? tongue

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Well there's the shipwreck in Northeast Krizsan that never seems to run out of metal bars, but I'd imagine The Mystic is talking about something else.

 

Anyways, if you want to know a cheat, Command + W (I think) resets random item shops with new inventories. It's pretty cool when you're looking for some mithril chain mail.

 

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Originally Posted By: Excalibur
Anyways, if you want to know a cheat, Command + W (I think) resets random item shops with new inventories. It's pretty cool when you're looking for some mithril chain mail.

Wheres the command button? lol

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For some reason, I always forget that Windows keyboards don't have command buttons. It just seems like it'd naturally be there.

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Originally Posted By: Earth2025
I used on Exile 3 editor to get money and food (was useful after rapids).

Rapids? Don't you mean Exile 2?

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yea Exile 2, but still used editor to get money and food. I remembered that pc exile had different order than mac exile but spidwebs site says nope.

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Originally Posted By: Lord Iraelithe
O_O what's the money cheat in E3?
In Lorelei, there's an Anama shrine where you can buy potion ingredients cheap; you need a set of Anama rings to get in. Buy ingredients, and make potions; if your alchemy skill is high enough (end the amount of skill needed is low enough), you can make up to 3 potions with each set of ingredients you use. Then, sell the potions you made to anyone who'll buy them. Repeat until enormously wealthy. grin

You can't do this in A3, due to a change in how the shops work.

Originally Posted By: Master Ackrovan
Quote:
I prefer E3.....E3 has a nice money cheat


Why does that not surprise me? tongue
Well, with six combination mages/priests, I need to pay for their spells somehow. tongue

Originally Posted By: Excalibur
Well there's the shipwreck in Northeast Krizsan that never seems to run out of metal bars
It runs out eventually. Trust me on this.

Quote:
if you want to know a cheat, Command + W (I think) resets random item shops with new inventories. It's pretty cool when you're looking for some mithril chain mail.
As Alorael pointed out, Command-W is for Mac. For the Windows version, it's Shift-W (Ctrl-W is to wait 40 moves). And that's exactly what I use it for too, except in E3 (my version, anyway), it's "mithral"; same difference, in my opinion, as it's still great armor for mages, regardless of spelling.

EDIT: No pun intended in the above paragraph.

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I'll have to take your word on it, since I don't have a Mac. Maybe one day I'll emulate a Mac, download the trilogy demos, and test it out.

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Yeah, I tried that one already, and it nearly drove me (and my laptop) wacky--just by trying to install the main program. Thanks anyway, but for now, I'll just stick with running the Exile trilogy using VirtualBox.

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Can either of these emulators run 8-bit mac games on my vista pc, like my al time favourite game Boom?

 

It isn't available on windows.......

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Originally Posted By: Doomblob
Can either of these emulators run 8-bit mac games on my vista pc, like my al time favourite game Boom?

It isn't available on windows.......


What you want is Basilisk II. It's a little tricky to set up, but it works very well.

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I'm rather new here (first post) so my opinion probably won't add much to this conversation (that and, I have yet to actually purchase an Avernum game, however I just completed the demo for Avernum 3 and I am itching to get past that dreaded Shareware demon, so I plan on purchasing the game this week!) but the reason that I love the game is how immersive it feels, despite being so simple, graphically. I used to love tabletop role-playing (until my GM lost his job about six months ago and had to leave the state to afford somewhere to stay) and Avernum has filled the void for me, left by the departure of my GM. Avernum really feels as close to a tabletop game as a videogame is probably going to get, especially looking at how mainstream RPGs are today. I love the gameplay, I love the open worlds, the people that inhabit them, the descriptive texts employed to fill in the gap left by simplistic graphics. I like the humor, the drama, the mystery. Jeff is doing what I (and I'm sure many of you) wise I could do with my life. Creating an immersive digital world. Avernum really feeds my need to adventure and see new things. Jeff has put a bunch of effort into populating his worlds with things to do and see. It's really amazing.

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Welcome aboard. Good that you like Avernum. I think its better buy 1st trilogy on cd than buy just A3.

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Quote:
I think its better buy 1st trilogy on cd than buy just A3.

I second this opinion. It's better to buy the trilogy CD, if only just for A2 and A3. You're still saving money, and if you don't mind the lack of a linear plot it's worth checking A1 out anyway. It is a very good deal.

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Thanks for the suggestion, I was probably going to end up getting A1 and 2 anyways, didn't realize how much money I'd be saving by getting them all together. Y'all saved me some dollarz.

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Considering games nowadays hit you for like $60 for a measly 6-8 hours of gameplay, I'd say whatever you buy here is a freaking bargain. I bought Exile 1-3 back in the day, then Avernum 1-3. Haven't tried Avernum 4 or 5, but I remember not liking the Geneforge engine. I'll give it another go sometime though.

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console games games cost quite often over 50 bucks and gameplay lasts couple hrs on single-player and if has multiplayer-ability it can double gameplay. since sometimes not worth to replay the game, Avernum lasts month if plays couple hrs per day and has quite high replay-value.

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I initially did not like Geneforge or Nethergate all that much. When played they are actually quite interesting. In Geneforge the creations are a major part of the attraction, upgrading them and so on.

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