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Northern Isles Ideas

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Also, regarding Craftmaster Strine: I see no situation in which he would make a rod or a box in preference to a wand. You might as well just take them out of the list.

 

EDIT: Also, note that the Nephil Activist still needs the Shanker dead. I think this is manageable, but I'm not sure if it's intentional.

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The list of roles are still in progress. I haven't finished changing everything around yet. smile

 

I'm including the moderator shop because Oliver is not a guaranteed role. I am thinking of structuring things so it is possible to compete. I really would like to make this game a little less about killing, but it will require a bit of restructuring to do that.

 

As for Oliver, I see your point with the low level items. While he does compete with the mod shop, the items there are dynamic. I am planning on making the antidote a 10 coin item. If someone has been poisoned, and the shop does not have one, Oliver can likely make a killing on that deal if he does.

 

I may change the moderator shop price structure to be a 100% mark up to give Oliver a further advantage. I'm not a big fan of the bidding idea just because it creates a lot more work for me.

 

With regards to what Ash Lael was saying, I was considering how to handle redistribution of wealth after death. I like the idea of coins being lost because it removes the incentive to kill people for money. I do see a downside to this, however, in that there may not be enough money to go around.

 

Finally, I will do something different with CM Strine.

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I updated the role list. Please take a look. Just for a note, Oliver's victory condition is now:

 

Victory Condition: Have 50% more in coins and items than you started. At the end of the game, you get a 5 coin bonus for each unique person you have traded with and received and item (coins do not count).

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That means every time Oliver trades with someone he has not received an item from and receives an item, be gets a 5 coin bonus at the end of the game. The counter example is if he trades with someone three times, he only gets the bonus once. This encourages him to trade with lots of people.

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I like most of the changes, but I'm not sure about the Shanker still being a target of the Micklebur. I don't necessarily mind that Shanker has enemies, but Micklebur is a powerful role, a guaranteed role, and starts with one ally. He does need some kind of item to take Shanker down (unless the Priest's ability works on immunities?), but it's still enough to scare most players into hiding their role - which is going to make the role pretty ineffective at slowing the game down. If the Shanker needs an enemy, make it a non-guaranteed role or a less powerful role, I think.

 

EDIT: I'm not sure why Dionicio needed changing, either. He seems like he's been one of the more successful roles.

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The priest's ability does not work on immunities. Your point is all well and good, but comes without a solution that preserves balance of the Anama and keeps the storyline.

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Ooh! With the coins, a role idea!

 

Priest of Divine Lucre

Nationality: Empire

Skill: Stealth

Attack: Physical

Immunities: None

 

Abilities: Can trade various blessings for coins. His various spells must be made in exchange for coins; he cannot freely bless, nor can he bless himself. His blessings are:

 

* War Blessing: Grants the blessed status, giving a skill of power for 24 hours. Costs 30 coins.

* Shielding: Grants the Shielded status for 24 hours, making the person physical immune. Costs 40 coins.

* Haste: The target wins first strike for his next battle, be it an attack or defense. Costs 40 coins.

* Poison Weapon: The target's attack is switched to Poison for the next 24 hours. Costs 50 coins.

* Avatar: Grants the Berserk status for 24 hours, giving a skill of power and a guaranteed first-strike. Costs 60 coins.

 

Goal: All Anama dead AND hold 70% of the game's total coinage.

 

(Came up with it on the fly, so it probably needs a bit of tweaking)

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Note that Dionicio was weakened slightly. I want to remove reliable ways to absolutely learn roles.

 

As for Shanker, I made her immune to negative statuses and anyone who attacks her will have any positive statuses removed. She is a mage and will therefore be an Anama target. However, she will be very hard to kill. As of right now, the only ways to kill her are with the Wand of Death, Flaming Sword, or Weapon Poison.

 

In her defense, because she is so hard to kill, the Anama would probably be wiser to find easier targets. In fact, a more viable strategy for Shanker would be to feed the Anama the Darkside Mage and Gladwell.

 

I may change Micklebur's victory condition to bring back Gladwell being worth two kills.

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Originally Posted By: *i

As for Shanker, I made her immune to negative statuses and anyone who attacks her will have any positive statuses removed.

I'm not sure what this means.

I did noticed the Dionicio being nerfed, but hopefully the coins will make up for it. On its own, the Skill level thing sucks, but combined with the Nationality ability (I forget of which role's) it could be somewhat useful. Perhaps you could change the Spyre to: "Tells you either the nationality or the skill level of a character" this gives the Dionicio some sort of incentive to get Spyre early rather than at the end. It could also fit together nicely with the fact that he needs the Spyre as part of his winning condition.

Also, I feel like I should point out that the Craftmaster is still a Mage (anyone who has a magic attack, correct?). I know you wanted her to not be on the Anama target list, but I wasn't sure if you still wanted to keep her magic attack.

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Originally Posted By: Marlenny
Originally Posted By: *i

As for Shanker, I made her immune to negative statuses and anyone who attacks her will have any positive statuses removed.

I'm not sure what this means.

It means that if you use, say, heroic brew and then attack Shanker, you'll lose your temporary power role status. It also means that abilities like the DL Mage's curse won't work on her.

Dikiyoba.

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Originally Posted By: *i
Your point is all well and good, but comes without a solution that preserves balance of the Anama and keeps the storyline.


Well, I'm just trying to get some consensus on the problem before I start suggesting solutions that you may or may not like. You've got a tendency to make changes without explaining why, which doesn't bother me, but it does mean that coming up with productive suggestions takes a little more discussion.

The thing is that for the Shanker to work as an alliance-forming role (which she needs to in order to have any hope of slowing down alternate routes), she needs to pretty public about her role. The Anama may well be able to win by leaving her alone, but why would they? If she hopes to win, she's going to need to be out and proud, and that's the equivalent of painting a bullseye on her forehead. It doesn't matter that they need an item to bring her down, they'll find it, or an ally who can do it. Safety for a role does not come through immunities or protections in this game, it comes from a lack of enemies. And as for feeding the Anama alternative targets - not exactly in keeping with the purpose of the role, is it? She's supposed to STOP people from dying.

There are ways to get around this, depending on what else you hold sacred. For example, there's no reason that the Shanker has to be a mage, which seems the most obvious solution to me. Or if you are committed to keeping the Shanker as a mage, the peacekeeping role could be taken on by another character - maybe even Oliver?

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Quote:
For example, there's no reason that the Shanker has to be a mage, which seems the most obvious solution to me.


Plot is the obvious reason and violates one of the requirements. I could restructure the Anama to take Shanker out of their target list, but I'm not sure of the idea of any role having absolutely no enemies whatsoever.

The more palatable way from a plot point of view is to make killing her not worth the trouble. Right now, only two people even have a chance of taking her down: Ronaldo and Micklebur. Both would have a very hard time of doing it.

Also, whoever plays this role is going to have to make some sacrifices. Some players are, by design, dedicated killers. At best, Shanker can help to keep them confused about who their targets are. Nonetheless, this is unsustainable from the long view. Information will inevitably get out.

Here are some ideas for Anama related victory conditions:

Anama Priest: Have the number of Anama members (living or dead) outnumber the mages that win. Using the Holy Symbol increases the effective number of Anama members by one.

Micklebur: Two randomly selected mages dead and use the Holy Symbol.

Anama Hunter: Both the Anama Priest and Micklebur do not win.

As for Shanker's ability:

Shanker: When attacked you are a skill of power for the duration of the battle and have a 50% chance of escaping. You are immune to negative status effects. May submit a list of up to four pairs of living players that does not use any one person more than once. You will learn the attitude (friendly, neutral, enemy) of those players.

So here's what I have done. Shanker is no longer guaranteed a target of the Anama who now have much softer victory conditions. Trying to kill her has an unblockable 50% failure rate (read as wasted action). The only reliable way to kill her is with the valuable Wand of Death.

Playing the game should have some risk for every role, even if that risk is only hypothetical.

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Also, I'm thinking of modifying the Holy Symbol. It is now an item people use, it counts as an ability use, can only be used once, and it does something different for each role in addition to removing Gladwell's geas. Here is what I have already:

 

Adventurer: Reveals identity of one of your targets (random).

Aimee: Not applicable.

Alchemist: Grants you two more alchemicals.

Anama Hunter: All Anama members are cursed for 24 hours.

Anama Priest: Gives a bonus Anama member toward your victory condition.

Bound Servant: If Gladwell dead, removes your geas.

Craftmaster Strine: Reduces number of items you need to make by one.

Darkside Blademaster: Grants you resistance for 24 hours.

Darkside Mage: Grants you protection for 24 hours.

Dionicio: Reveals the target list of the Darkside Loyalists.

Domont: Reveals identity of one of your targets (random).

Empire Spy: Reveals identity of one of your targets (random).

Fae: No effect.

Gladwell: Identifies all players who may join you.

Infiltrator: Reveals identity of one of your targets (random).

Machrone: Decreases the number of questions you must answer by one.

Micklebur: Required for victory.

Necromancer: Reveals identity of one of your targets (random).

Nephil Activist: Gives a +20 coin bonus to the Fang Clan.

Oliver: Gives a +10 coin bonus for your victory condition.

Pure Spirit: Required for victory.

Ronaldo: Reveals identity of one of your targets (random).

Shanker: Reveals everyone's attitudes toward you.

Vahkos: Not applicable.

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If you only need to use the symbol to get this benefit, what's to stop allies from passing it from one to another?

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All artifacts may only be used once per day. Pass it as much as you want, but the recipient must wait until the next day to use it.

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Originally Posted By: *i
Plot is the obvious reason and violates one of the requirements.


There's no reason the character needs to be named "Shanker", then. Or, as I mentioned before, the character's function within the game could be handed off to another role, if Shanker's mage status is going to be problematic.

Originally Posted By: *i
I could restructure the Anama to take Shanker out of their target list, but I'm not sure of the idea of any role having absolutely no enemies whatsoever.

...

Playing the game should have some risk for every role, even if that risk is only hypothetical.


You wouldn't think it from the games that have been played so far, but dying isn't the only way to lose, and Shanker has a large risk of losing. This game can get pretty bloodthirsty, and trying to stem that tide for five days is a big ask. Does she need the extra challenge of having to deal with enemies after her? What does that add to the game?

Originally Posted By: *i
The more palatable way from a plot point of view is to make killing her not worth the trouble. Right now, only two people even have a chance of taking her down: Ronaldo and Micklebur. Both would have a very hard time of doing it.


I'm skeptical that "It might not work" will be a good enough reason to dissuade the Micklebur. I have a hunch that most players, while playing Shanker, will agree.

Originally Posted By: *i
Also, whoever plays this role is going to have to make some sacrifices. Some players are, by design, dedicated killers. At best, Shanker can help to keep them confused about who their targets are. Nonetheless, this is unsustainable from the long view. Information will inevitably get out.


The question is how long is the long view. Shanker's job is to stretch it past 5 days.

Anyway, I've said my piece. Agree or not, adjust or not, it's your game. But if you choose to keep Shanker on Micklebur's hit list, and the next game is just as nasty, brutish, and short as previous ones, I reserve the right to say "I told you so." tongue

Also, the Channeler seriously needs to be brought in in some form. That's the coolest idea in this thread.

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Shanker is in the game because she plays a fairly important role in the region in the game and clearly meets the "everyone should get along" concept. So yes, she needs to be there. The problem is she is very clearly a mage. These are two things that must stay the same for plot reasons.

 

The only solution where we have some wiggle room is to adjust the Anama. Again, I would like to see someone suggest something concrete for what we can do with the Anama that preserves storyline, keeps the Anama on parity, and is fairly simple.

 

I would be willing to not include Shanker in the tally of Anama versus mages, even though it is ad hoc. I would even be willing to guarantee Shanker does not get selected by Micklebur. I would prefer something different, however.

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As an alternative to the protections proposed for the Shanker so far, allow me to suggest that she be able to set her immunity to whatever she likes as an ability use. The Anama can still attack her, but without knowing her immunity for certain. Wand of Death still kills, of course, but first the Anama have to get it, and then they have to use it on someone who does not actually need, or even really want, them dead.

 

Shanker should still be a target of the anama, but not a neccessary one.

 

 

Hmmm. I'm not entirely happy with this proposal. Let me give it some more thought.

 

EDIT: Ok, a thought. Miklebur victory condition changed to "All Mages Dead, OR Anama priest wins" (or some similar variation). This means the anama can win without killing at all (in theory), as long as the priest is alive. If the priest dies, however, the Miklebur goes on a vengeful killing spree. It also solves to problem of the Miklebur causing alliance difficulties.

 

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Item ideas.

 

Scavenger Rat (30) - Digs up either an item or coins at the beginning of each day.

Lizard Egg (30) - Provides a pet Giant Lizard when used. Anyone attacking you will fight the lizard instead. The lizard has a skill of standard and a physical attack. Lasts until killed.

Radiant Plate (40) - When used, provides full immunity for 24 hours. During this time, you are rendered completely unable to perform actions, be it attacking, using other items, or even trading or buying.

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Double post, but since the last round has ended, I thought I'd post a refurbished role idea:

 

Brigand

Nationality: Avernum

Skill: Stealth

Attack: Physical

Immunities: None

 

Abilities: Once per day, can: (1) Scan a person and see how many coins they carry. (2) Anonymously demand coins from a person. Any coins sent to "Brigand" will automatically reach you, and if you make a kill, you gain any and all coins that person was carrying.

 

You are effectively enemies with everybody; while you will normally win first strike in an attack, anyone attacking you will also get first strike.

 

Goal: Have 120 coins by the end of the game.

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Radiant Plate would be better as a Wand of Forcecage. Or Potion of Forcecage, as the case may be.

 

The Brigand seems to have absolutely no reason to use his scan if his demand is binding; if it isn't, it's not really much of an ability. Everyone can assume the bandit always wants all their coins. And if the demand does work, why ever figure out whether someone has coins when you can just take the coins they may or may not have?

 

—Alorael, who doesn't really see this as a problem for the brigand. A strictly unnecessary ability isn't bad, just redundant.

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As an alternative, you could say that the Brigand starts out with no enemies, but anyone who is able to meet the Brigand's demand for a specific number of coins but refuses to do so becomes an enemy of the Brigand.

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I don't mind the idea of a brigand, but why? If we want to increase negotiation and information-spreading, then the brigand doesn't seem to help much. Perhaps we should make a spy role instead. The spy would be able to communicate anonymously with players through an account managed by *i. The account would be something obvious like "NI Spy," and at the end of each game, the account would be deleted then recreated. Of course, in this game, this role would be especially powerful, so there would need to be some sort of caveat... perhaps we could force the spy to only talk to certain roles without knowing their identities? Then again, *i would have to mediate those communications, and that would make communications slow, which seems to go against the point. I suppose the spy would be a tough-enough role already even if it had unlimited access to the NI Spy account, since if s/he tries to deal with someone as both her/his main account as well as the Spy, it'll be easy for them to catch on. The goal of the spy would have to be very hefty: Like, "Know the identities of at least 8 roles." I like the spy, since s/he'd be faction-neutral, but s/he'd be useful for any degree of faction-building. I would also want to allow people to trade with the anonymous NI Spy account, but NOT be able to recruit it. (Another issue is identity disguises--would people be able to disguise themselves with the NI Spy account, or just the Spy role? I'm tempted to go with just the Spy role, since otherwise, they'd have to be given access to the NI Spy account, and that seems awfully abusive.)

 

I dislike the Channeler as stated because it moves the game closer and closer to a game of personal relationships rather than strategic ones. Why not allow the Channeler to ask two questions daily? This requires that players be honest, and only say what they would have known at the moment of death. (For instance, "drat, Ronaldo was actually Gladwell!" would count, but "I was talking with Marlenny after the game, and she said..." would not.) The system relies on honesty as-is, so I accept this risk.

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I noticed that joining Gladwell now gives you the skill of power instead of physical immunity. I don't think it makes sense for Dionicio to join Gladwell as a result, so doesn't that make the game slightly in favor of the Anama in terms of potential recruits? (especially considering that Dionicio is the only potential recruit that is a guaranteed role)

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Well, the Anama have a similar issue with the Anama Hunter. I think, rather than ask whether they're balanced, we should ask whether each faction has enough potential recruits to have a fair chance at finding as many as it needs. I think they do, but I'm not positive. Thoughts?

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My goal with Gladwell was to make him attractive for the weak who need to be strong, hence the power skill. Realistically, someone already strong has little use of his "gift". Of course, if people think that it would be unbalancing, I'm open to suggestions.

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Didn't think about the Anama Hunter. Someone punch me please! smile

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I think we've played enough games now that it'd be interesting, and maybe even useful, to look at some statistics. In the following list, the first number is how many games the listed role has won, the second how many it has appeared in. Hopefully, this will give us some food for thought as we try to balance the role set.

 

Adventurer - 1/5

Aimee - 0/1

Alchemist - 1/2

Anama Hunter - 1/4

Anama Priest - 1/7

Bound Servant - 4/7

Craftsmaster Strine - 2/2

Darkside Blademaster - 2/7

Darkside Mage - 0/7

Dionicio - 3/7

Domont - 0/6

Empire Spy - 1/6

Fae - 1/2

Gladwell - 3/7

Infiltrator - has not appeared

Machrone - 5/7

Mickelbur - 1/6

Necromancer - 1/3

Nephil Activist - 0/1

Oliver - 2/4

Pure Spirit - 0/2

Ronaldo - 0/2

Sacred Item Cultist - 2/3

Shanker - 3/7

Skribbane Addict - 0/2

Vahkos - 0/1

All roles - 34/108

 

This list has some obvious limitations: the performance of each role depends on a lot more than the role itself, some roles have changed a lot over time, and our sample size is still quite small, especially for those roles that have not appeared many times. Still, I think it provides some interesting information:

 

1. Despite our best efforts, playing Machrone is easy. The merchant roles also have very good winning percentages. Having some roles be easier than average is not necessarily a bad thing, but obviously we want to keep it to a minimum.

 

2. The Anama and the Darkside factions have both done very poorly. In the Anama's case, we have to keep in mind that they should have won games 6 and 7, but the Darksiders may be genuinely weak.

 

3. Gladwell is fairly close to average. The Servant, on the other hand, has done extremely well since he stopped needing Gladwell dead in order to win.

 

4. I was genuinely surprised at the poor performance of the Adventurer and the Spy. I would not have called either role easy, but with their wide choice of win conditions, usefulness in alliances, and few mortal enemies, I would have thought that each would do at least as well as the average. Instead, their combined record is 2/11! Is this just a fluke, or is there something I'm missing?

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Originally Posted By: Sarachim
1. Despite our best efforts, playing Machrone is easy. The merchant roles also have very good winning percentages. Having some roles be easier than average is not necessarily a bad thing, but obviously we want to keep it to a minimum.


The easier roles also tend to be weaker roles, so having a greater chance of winning is a kind of consolation for not having as much direct influence on the game. Plus, they usually have fairly complex win conditions that require them to be fairly deeply involved in the game even if they're not shaping the flow of events. I think the roles as they currently exist generally add to the game rather than detracting from it.

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I think a problem with the Adventurer/Spy, and maybe also with the DLs, is that since they have a wide range of possible targets, no one wants to risk allying with them. Maybe their failure is also linked to Machrone's relative success? Maybe Machrone needs to be part of a successful alliance, which prevents Spy/Adventurer from joining if they have him as a target?

 

Thus, even though they can get by with only killing two people, no one wants to risk it being them. Maybe we could try reducing their target lists and see what happens. In any case, their having Machrone on their list doesn't seem to be hurting him any.

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I mean, I think it'd be silly not to count last game as having the adventurer, anama priest, pure spirit, etc as wins. They were clearly strong enough to win.

 

Machrone always manages to work his way into the winning alliance, that seems to be how he keeps doing well. I've found that alliances, while very hard to maintain, are infinitely better odds at survival than trying to work alone.

 

I'm not sure how everyone figures out all of the roles on day 1, but it generally happens, and I for one always seem to be going after the darksiders or helping others to do so. I'm not positive why though, but I think wz As's idea is probably it.

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Originally Posted By: wz. As
I think a problem with the Adventurer/Spy, and maybe also with the DLs, is that since they have a wide range of possible targets, no one wants to risk allying with them. Maybe their failure is also linked to Machrone's relative success? Maybe Machrone needs to be part of a successful alliance, which prevents Spy/Adventurer from joining if they have him as a target? Thus, even though they can get by with only killing two people, no one wants to risk it being them.


I'm not sure this is it. The one game that each role won, the winning alliance was able to cooperate effectively with the Adventurer/Spy despite having at least one of his targets in that alliance (including Machrone in game 5).

Originally Posted By: wz. As
In any case, their having Machrone on their list doesn't seem to be hurting him any.


Not quite true. One of the two times Machrone lost (the most recent game), the Adventurer identified and killed him. The other, he attacked the Darkside Blademaster (side note: what the hell?). If he weren't a target, Machrone would basically never lose.

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I think part of what's holding the Adventurer and Empire Spy back is that they only have Stealth skill and no immunities, so nearly all of their enemies are able to simply attack them as soon as they find out their identity, if they so choose. And there are quite a few Standard-skill characters who don't really need to use their abilities early in the game, and can't risk attacking more dangerous enemies, so they may as well kill who they can.

 

Originally Posted By: Sporefrog
I mean, I think it'd be silly not to count last game as having the adventurer, anama priest, pure spirit, etc as wins. They were clearly strong enough to win.

 

They were strong enough if they played their cards right, but even if your plan had worked correctly at the end, the Adventurer would have attempted to attack me with the Killer Poison and died because I had an antidote. You made other mistakes before that, of course, but everyone makes mistakes in every game, so that's not very meaningful unless you want to try to divide every death into forced and unforced errors.

 

Quote:
I'm not sure how everyone figures out all of the roles on day 1, but it generally happens

 

By a few people talking to lots and lots of people and sharing information about the other people they've talked to, basically.

 

If we think Machrone is too easy, maybe Machrone should have a cash or item-based victory condition as well? If he needed to hold a base of 60 coins at the end of the game to win, and this requirement was modified by the number of questions he answered correctly or incorrectly, things might be a little more challenging for him.

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Originally Posted By: *i
My goal with Gladwell was to make him attractive for the weak who need to be strong, hence the power skill. Realistically, someone already strong has little use of his "gift". Of course, if people think that it would be unbalancing, I'm open to suggestions.


Oh, and after the latest game, I have a comment on this point. I think that under the current rules, joining Gladwell is less beneficial than joining the Anama for most of the roles that are capable of doing both (especially Dionicio, who gains nothing from joining Gladwell). The requirement to personally help fulfil a win condition of Gladwell's is also much more onerous than the Anama requirement, which offers a wider range options to Anama members. This isn't necessarily a problem, since Gladwell really only needs a couple of servants, but it's worth keeping in mind.

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Originally Posted By: Thuryl


They were strong enough if they played their cards right, but even if your plan had worked correctly at the end, the Adventurer would have attempted to attack me with the Killer Poison and died because I had an antidote. You made other mistakes before that, of course, but everyone makes mistakes in every game, so that's not very meaningful unless you want to try to divide every death into forced and unforced errors.


I was wrong in thinking that the antidote only cured a Poison Potion, rather than a poison attack. But anyway, she was immune to magic. Not like it matters, because, again, there's no reason, as far as I know, that you didn't die a few days earlier to andraste other than *I having too much to process. The only reason everyone alive other than you at the end of the game did not win (maybe alorael too) was processing commands -- that's not a problem with the roles. You were a great gladwell, and a very apt player, and I'm not suggesting otherwise, I just felt that game was pretty unfair.

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On a similar note, I observed in this game in particular that the Pure Spirit had nothing to gain from joining the Anama, but he doesn't gain much in general either. He's already immune to magic, so in exchange for more enemies and more victory conditions he gets access to the Anama shop and the fairly weak "solicit donations" ability. Is this really a fair deal?

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@Thuryl: From my experience, getting somebody to join you is a good way to ensure both people can mutually trust each other. There's really no reason to backstab once you are in a faction, simply for the reason that you gain joined victory conditions.

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Originally Posted By: Sporefrog
I was wrong in thinking that the antidote only cured a Poison Potion, rather than a poison attack. But anyway, she was immune to magic. Not like it matters, because, again, there's no reason, as far as I know, that you didn't die a few days earlier to andraste other than *I having too much to process. The only reason everyone alive other than you at the end of the game did not win (maybe alorael too) was processing commands -- that's not a problem with the roles.


The game's time limit was deliberately shortened so that some players would have to hurry to meet their win conditions, or else lose. Yeah, there was a glut of orders toward the end that made it hard for people to work out who was doing what, but I see that as part of the game. Should the time limit be raised back up to 7 days?

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Originally Posted By: Sporefrog
@Thuryl: From my experience, getting somebody to join you is a good way to ensure both people can mutually trust each other. There's really no reason to backstab once you are in a faction, simply for the reason that you gain joined victory conditions.


Do they have much to offer each other in the first place, though? They're both anti-DL, but that's about it. The Anama are taking a risk in recruiting him because the "Pure Spirit" could be the Anama Hunter, and the Pure Spirit is taking a risk in joining because the "Anama Priest" could be the Fae.

Maybe the Pure Spirit should simply start out as an Anama member automatically? That would help the Anama a little bit, and make things more challenging for the Pure Spirit (who has kind of an easy role).

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Raising the time limit wouldn't have helped the former problem, though it would have significantly changed the outcome by the end. The real problem was just performing two trades, often times with somebody who just traded for something from someone else, and then using an item, and then performing an action. If you want to join a faction in there too, that's just way too much to do in 24 hours if you wait for each action to resolve individually (technically, you can't submit an action to use an item you don't yet have!)

 

If trades take a day to go through by default, then that would certainly solve the problem too. Then you don't have to worry about saying "once I receive X item, use it on Y player"

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Originally Posted By: Sporefrog
If you want to join a faction in there too, that's just way too much to do in 24 hours if you wait for each action to resolve individually (technically, you can't submit an action to use an item you don't yet have!)


I do think there needs to be more clarity on when exactly it's okay to submit an action, and when an action once submitted becomes valid. Because of time zone differences, I was usually submitting actions several hours before they were validated, and another few hours before they were processed.

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In that specific case I really don't know why Marlenny invited the pure spirit tongue They had been allies the whole game though, but you'd have to ask one of them.

 

The anama had gotten so huge, it just seems really against any the spirit of the game to say that they lost when they were succeeding so fabulously as a faction. That sort of thing makes me dislike the 5 day rule (which is funny, because I always thought 7 days was wayyy too long, but then I suppose *I had more free time).

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I'm sure it's not satisfying to lose, but I think the outcome is a lot more interesting this way than it would have been if the Anama had had time to organise an easy win for everyone. But maybe I'm just the sort of person who slows down to gawk at train wrecks.

 

The fact of the matter is that you lost because you didn't succeed in meeting your Anama victory conditions, no matter how big your faction was. I'd argue that that could just as easily be seen as a problem with your victory conditions as with the methods available to you for meeting them.

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Despite the comments about Machrone being easy to play, I found the game incredibly tense, with at least 2 people who had me as a target being aware of my identity at any given point, and me having to barter information (some of it true!) desperately to stay alive. There were a couple of points where it would certainly have been sensible for people to kill me and I somehow persuaded them otherwise; sadly I wasn't online when Andraste was resurrected.

 

However, that may partly be because I was selected as a target for the Darksiders, and because Ronaldo was present; those two together probably made my life much more difficult than it could have been.

 

On that note, I have the germ of an idea: this may be horribly unbalanced, but let's see what you guys think. Suppose you change Machrone's ability and victory condition to this:

 

Once per day, you may investigate another player, who will be informed that they have been investigated by Machrone (but not who you are). This player is now your enemy. 24 hours after you investigate someone, (or at the end of the game, if the game ends first), if you are still alive, their role and current alliegance will be published in the main thread. You must investigate someone every day; each failure to do so will result in one random person being told your identity.

 

Victory condition: investigate at least one member of the Gladwell alliance, Anama member, and Darkside Loyalist. Each time you achieve one of these conditions, you will receive 15 coins.

 

How about it? I know it's quite a bit different, but it would make it a very interesting role to play, and you'd have to be a lot more careful about who found out about you.

 

-E-

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