Jump to content

Shaper vs. Rebel debate [possible SPOILERS][G5]


Recommended Posts

  • Replies 108
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

True shapers could make food, but if the trip was thought impossible for so long it has to be a realy long trip and how long does it take before all your shapers run out of essence. Seeing as the would be in the middle of the ocean with no access to a essance pool. They could take essance pods but that would lower food stores. They would reach the sholai land hungrey, low on essance, lost and seperated. The sholai may not have shaping but they will be well fed and energized. And they will have alot more troops due to all the sea borne losses to the shapers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Originally Posted By: Shaper Spddin
they have the perfect reason, the sholai tried to steal their secrets. Im talking about after g1 before the war.


Again, how exactly does that justify the massive military expenditure needed to make war on an entire continent? It'd be the equivalent of America invading China; yes, they're both spying on each other and they know it, but a war isn't in either of their interests.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

to take out the sholai all you need are 20 good shaperes. The shapers could land without the sholai knowing. Absorb their living crafts create clawbugs to burrow and create a temporary base in which they can create essence pools and all the neccessary supplies. And masha says the trip is only about a week.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And then what? What would the Shapers consider a victory? They're not just going to go in there and exterminate all life on the continent. Do they plan to administer all of the Sholai lands under Shaper rule indefinitely? They may be an empire, but they're not that aggressively expansionist.

 

Besides, what if the Shapers you send to invade go native? If the Shaper Empire sends 20 of their most powerful and ambitious Shapers, those twenty people might conspire among one another and get it into their heads to teach the Sholai how to Shape. They'd then command the resources of an entire continent from which to invade Terrestia.

 

For that matter, what makes you so sure the Sholai don't patrol their own borders just like, you know, every other country in the world? Even a small force wouldn't necessarily go undetected for long.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Originally Posted By: Shaper Spddin
what will 20 shapers do against terrestria. Also they might not conspire with one another. and yes destroy all life on the continent, thats the plan.


20 shapers plus the entire Sholai population, who have now been given unrestricted access to Shaping by those 20 shapers. "They might not betray us" is a really stupid, reckless basis on which to build an invasion plan. How could the Shapers be confident of finding twenty powerful shapers so heartless as to accept an order to exterminate millions of innocent civilians, rather than turning against an empire that would give such an order? Apparently this is a new idea to you, but most people think genocide is evil.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The shapers would have to pull alot of soilders out of places to take the week trip to the sholai lands. We dont know how much land the sholai have and presumable they have some sort of scouting system. If the shapers send 200 shapers, guardians and agents and it goes on the 1/3 survive of the sholai, even if they could group up the sholai could attack with thousands. Shapers are good, but not that good.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Originally Posted By: Thuryl
How could the Shapers be confident of finding twenty powerful shapers so heartless as to accept an order to exterminate millions of innocent civilians, rather than turning against an empire that would give such an order?

Can you answer 2 questions.
1. Who inhabited terrestria before shaper?
2. Where are they now?
Link to comment
Share on other sites

In sheer numbers the sholai could win over the small numbers of underfed shapers. Not realy a victory but how many shapers are there? I was under the idea that there were very few compaired to the area of land the have. And if the sholai population is in the millions they could have an army in the 20 000s with little dificutly. Even if the shapers massed up 1000 I just dont think they are that good.

 

1. not sure,someone did but it never gave a name( as far as I know).

2. the survivers were melded in with those from the shaper lands.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Umm, one mad Drakon and a canister addict, Spddin with a few dozen Serviles and Drayks in secret raised one of the most terrible armies the Shapers have ever seen. If 20 Shapers, all of whom are supposed to be the best of the best, make an army for each of them, lets say around ten, that's about 200 creations running around. Now what if they gain followers? Allies? What if they move fast and strike the Shaper Council before they have a chance to respond? We've already seen that the Shapers were too complacent before the war. Seriously, you massively underestimate what a single Shaper.

 

Why in the hell would the Shapers want to invade another country? Did you even talk to the Sholia who weren't conspiring with Trajkov? Trajkov was acting on his own accord. The Sholia have made it extremely clear that they are not a threat, in G1, G3, and G5. Were are you getting this fixation that the Sholia are bloodthirsty monsters? And, in case you didn't know, the Shapers want to be their friends in the G1 Shaper ending. Why would that have changed?

 

Quote:
If you read the game scripts the shapers have kept the world in peace until the rebellion started. Also the serviles don't seem to develop feelings if they are not left to become independent. In the times before G1 if they had just taken the serviles with them this whole rebellion would've been avoided. They might have had to deal with Trajkov but he is just an outsider who cant even control the power correctly and he's an idiot if you would like to see an example

 

If you played the games through and through, you would know that its been hinted several times that this is not the first time the Shapers have had a rebellion on their hands. This is just the most severe. Speak to Alwan again in G5. He said that the Shapers can return to the status quo again if they are strong enough. Again. That implies that they did it again. That they fought and won a war again. And the Shaper ending in G4? I admit this may be wrong, but the Shapers intended to keep very good record of this rebellion instead of the others, or something along this idea. The Shapers aren't these perfect hero's that can make all your problems go away. They can't even handle a problem responsibly without sticking it in a hole and calling it Barred.

 

The Last Archon

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Who said the sholai were bloodthirsty? All I was trying to say was that they would have a good chance at defending them self if it came to it, and given the shapers past history it might come to it. As for the power of 1 shaper, yes shapers are powerfull. But the army you mentioned would have no problems about using illigal creation. put that together with all the journy/food/death/plauge problems the sholai are not in that bad of a fight.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

a powerful shaper such as the one in alwans lab. (whose name i forgot) can create 40 creations and keep them under control. If you get 20 die hard loyalist shapers that's 800 creations. each creation could maybe take out at least 15 sholai. that's 12,000 sholai dead. The shapers, hiding in their pit can then just recreate more creations and do it again. Then when numbers dwindle in sholai population, the shapers can go out, and finish them off, BAM!! no more(or very few) sholai left. the rest will intergrate into the population as the woods people did.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The shapers (i have never seen) probably keep them near him at all times to prevent them from going rogue. I dont think any of the shapers would give an to make rogues and relesing them into an area as its one of, if not the highest laws. And cowering in a hole while the creations kill your oppestion doesnt seem like the kinda thing the shapers would do given their past history

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have no real reason why the shapers would attack the sholai other then they seem to like conquest. It seems that at some point there will be war. Who will win? The longer they put it of the more chance its the shapers. At the end of g5 in the shaper endings the sholai might win a war, but that power wouldnt last long.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Originally Posted By: Master Ackrovan
Thats just stupid. Yeah, put your generals in the foxholes. Nothing can go wrong.

The Last Archon


Thats what they're doing now. and as the raze one town to the ground, populate it ceate more essence pools raise another army, destroy another town. They could also use those crystal thingies so they can control creations from far. You are underestimating shaper power
Link to comment
Share on other sites

No, you are ignorant of Shaper power, which is sad because I'm a Lifecrafter, if anything else. And, I would say, you are overestemating Shaper power. If it were as simple as "go find a hole, make monsters, send them to kill, chug some essence, repeat" the Shapers would have won this war a long, long time ago.

 

The Last Archon

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think determining reason behind a second war would be to hard as noone knows the true ending to g5. The shapers might not exist anymore, the rebellion could be dead. Or the trajovites might have gained some power. Untill, and I dont think this is going to happen, Jeff tells us what the real ending was, any war that might happen is to uncertin to know a winner.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well it is true that Moseh got killed but with Moseh there were two armies attacking him with the support of a rally powerful lifecrafter.

 

But it still wouldn't last when the gain ground they will need to move or they will lose control of the creations.

So that plan is flawed they could just attack the shapers while they move.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Originally Posted By: Shaper Spddin
I said the shapers destroy a town and move to that town, therefore they are moving along with there creations.


.....Why would the Shapers destroy a town? For the hell of it? Are you even taking this argument even remotely seriously?

The Last Archon
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...