Ineffable Wingbolt Spddin Ignis Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 Are you pro shaper or pro rebel, why? What's every ones favorite shaper/rebel class Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Acky Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 Hardcore Rebel. My preference is the Warrior/Guardian. ... Why? Okay. The Shapers are an intolerant pack of nutcases that are hellbent on creating the perfect world for them to rule in. They have slaughtered innocent sentient beings, equal to them in intelligence. This is like genocide. Hoarding sciences' like Shaping is no different than if we were held information as a people about new ways on improving living (like say, the microwave). Although they have kept people safe for millenia by outside influences, overall they are incapable of leading because of their constant attempts to control the lives of people, and are incapable of communicating with them (also known as the Harmony Isle rebels incident) about the extent of their powers, when such information is crucial to the continued loyalty. Testing new creations by pitting them against each other in the name of science is also morally wrong. Now, I'm positive someone has a problem with what I'm saying. If you know you can't stay PG rated, aka stay civil and have a discussion rather than an blood soakedargument, in this thread I ask you to PM me, so therefore we may flame our hearts content. The Last Archon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Student of Trinity Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 There have been a lot of these debates over the years, but G5 has added a fair amount of new information, and I don't remember seeing this topic revisted at any length since it has come out. So maybe it's time again. Just be careful about spoilers. Stuff in the ending texts may be great for your argument, but people who haven't seen it yet may want to discover it for yourselves. So use spoiler tags. And if we do get some spoiler comments, maybe the first poster can edit the thread title to include '[spoilers]'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Alorael at Large Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 Shaping is a wonderful tool that can save and improve lives, but it is also and maybe even primarily a weapon. The Shapers are the extreme end of gun control: nobody gets creations but government. That all gets warped by the fact that they are the government and that their government is a semi-meritocratic oligarchy. Then they throw in human (well, servile) rights violations and genocidal tendencies towards intelligent creations. Shapers are not nice people. The rebels, however, are a catch-all group of everyone who can't get along with the Shapers. Creations' rights proponents rub shoulders with those who just want to remove all limits on shaping, which amounts to letting anyone (with a permitting genotype) drive around in a tank and carry assault weapons. The human/drakon rift s hows how big a problem it is. Are the Shapers right? No. But are the rebels right? Also no. There's a reason Astoria is one of the more popular choices. —Alorael, who isn't sure endings are a good way to judge sects' values. The "historical" accident of how things turn out comes from a number of causes and interacting agendas. What's best and what's right aren't the same, especially for short-term best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall A less presumptuous name. Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 These old debates... well, here we go: I personally side with the Shapers. No, they're not perfect; far from it, but the rebels are, as Alorael said, a catch all group of people who want to oust the Shapers. Also, for those who say that Shaping does more bad than good, I invite you to play geneforge 2. While the shaping that takes place is illegal, it manages to beautify an otherwise inhospitable landscape. Sure the Shapers are oppressive in a dire need of reform, but they also have experience with governing. The drakons, on the other hand, govern by strength and cunning, not political issues. In short, the Shapers know what they are doing and, with a good bit of reform, could lead the known world into another thousand years of golden age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyshakk Koan Darkdread Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 I played the whole game as loyalist. I finished it and now I am trying the rebel way. I am pro shaper just because I do not think the rebels are doing the right thing. They are -irresponsibly- sending hordes of monsters and creatures (including the unbound) killing innocent human beings (to me, more valuable than a creation made of essence), burning their crops and destroying their homes. I acknowledge that negotiating pacifically would be very difficult (if not impossible) due to the Shapers' pride. However, they might as well have just fled to some distant island and I don't think the shapers would take the time to chase them all over the world. The free creations could have found a place to live in peace outside terrestria. I always picture these 2 sides as humans versus robots. What if one day robots decide they are tired of being treated like slaves by the humans and decide they need to kill humans, destroy cities and wage war to make their point, would you also align with them? It's true creations need proper treatment, have dignity(?) and *maybe* they have feelings and I agree Shapers can discuss and analize what they've been doing wrong, but still, life is an unfair place. (I hope I expressed myself, English is my 2nd language). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Acky Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 Quote: However, they might as well have just fled to some distant island and I don't think the shapers would take the time to chase them all over the world. The free creations could have found a place to live in peace outside terrestria. The Shapers never have and never will tolerate rogues living outside of their control. Play Geneforge 1 and 2. Those innocent awakened serviles who wanted nothing but to be left alone, who begged and screamed for mercy and to be allowed to live? Click to reveal.. Gone. The Shapers killed them off if they win Your English is quite fine . Quote: In short, the Shapers know what they are doing and, with a good bit of reform, could lead the known world into another thousand years of golden age. The problem with hoping that will happen is that the Shapers don't want to change, save Astoria and people who think like her, who are few and far between. Even when the Shapers win, we have seen time and time again that they are too stubborn and arrogant to reform their ways, no matter how obvious the need is. The Last Archon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall A less presumptuous name. Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 True, but at that point, it's the lesser of 1, 2, 3-4-5 or so evils, and I personally find that the Shapers start closer to the ideal and are more (albeit not much at all, but more) likely to reach it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Spddin Ignis Posted April 17, 2009 Author Share Posted April 17, 2009 Im a die hard loyalist.The shapers might be unfair at times, but if you read, they say they feel as if though creations are their children. Aslo all the drakons are trying to do is become the *next shapers*. And as Greta says they will find themselves on the *shaper side* of another rebellion. In times of shaper rule things were peaceful for the most part. But honestly, a pair of shapers started the rebellion. Brahzal and Zachary, unintetionally started this whole war, which gives shapers another reason to control there power even more. and i play as a shaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Acky Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 Spddin? Barzhal and Zachary didn't unintentionally do anything. In order to really know about the Shapers, the irony in the series, and why the Shapers don't think of their creations as children, you really need to play the whole series. There all great games. Master1: Fair enough. You smelly loyalists have your points here or there The Last Archon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Spddin Ignis Posted April 17, 2009 Author Share Posted April 17, 2009 i did play the whole series Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall The Ratt Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 I have decided that I want creation equality, with slightly less magic/shaping control than what the shapers had. To give examples, the smart ornk, and smart thahds I would kill, because they are a one of a kind, and out of control (I know this sounds like a contradiction). I also think that magic/and shaping should be slightly less controlled, though shaping should still be under tight control. Ideally shaping would be phased out, but that would take years to get rid of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Spddin Ignis Posted April 17, 2009 Author Share Posted April 17, 2009 Fine, I admit it. They do think of them as servents(sometimes) and Barring drayks wasn't neccesarily the smartest thing to do.\, but it is completely understandible. Where would the serviles, drakons,draysks be without shapers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Acky Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 Servants? You mean like a butler, or maid? No, they think of them as slaves. Completely under their command, with little rights, not deserving of intelligence higher than that of a mosquito, and the reservation of powers to that of an elite sect (lets say, the Democrats reserved all political power to themselves, and excluded the Republicans). Where would they be? They wouldn't exist, and the problems they face today would not exist. It is their inability to address those problems responsibly that will be their undoing. The Last Archon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Spddin Ignis Posted April 17, 2009 Author Share Posted April 17, 2009 The Ratt, smart creations wouldn't you kill. The Drakons are more Arrogant then the shapers will ever be and will never accept peace with them. but what makes drakons worse is the fact that they have no rules. They shape uncontrolled creations, kill innocent people then have fundoing it again. Atleast the shapers recognize the value of control even though it is total Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasoned Roamer shaper_medej Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 To create a perfect world in geneforge: Kill the drakons and eye-beasts Force the shapers to be more tolerant (that wouldn't happen but its what needs to happen) Don't use creations for war. allow the survivors live but only make ornk , trees and serviles.(new creations are not to be made for war) don't make new versions of creations. Make serviles for all the outsiders that need them. let serviles that grow independent free and replace it. free serviles would have all rites that the humans have (no shaping but they could have real jobs, own property etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Spddin Ignis Posted April 18, 2009 Author Share Posted April 18, 2009 Yes, why dont we over populate the world with serviles. All serviles would want to be free, therefor you will shape them just to replace them, which is even worse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Acky Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 Why kill gazers? They don't want to do anything except find some god forsaken pit to rule and not deal with any pesky Shapers or Lifecrafters snooping around their lair. These guys are seriously misunderstood. The problem with that last part is that the Serviles have shown that both in G2 and G5 that they won't stand for any of their species enslaved by the Shapers. The Last Archon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Spddin Ignis Posted April 18, 2009 Author Share Posted April 18, 2009 if you haven't noticed, gazers are control freaks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Acky Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 So are the Shapers. Probably even more so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall A less presumptuous name. Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 Truly, I think that intelligent, non-hostile creations ought to be left alone. Let a gazer/eyebeast/drayk/drakon accumulate a hoard of lost treasure, but if it attacks anyone, treat it like you would anything else, put it in prison or whatever punishment fits the crime. Serviles are pretty much the same. Let them live their lives. Make new serviles with less intelligence (already being done) to prevent more intelligent ones, and let those who are intelligent go free. It's not like they'll dilute the genepool, seeing as how they most likely cannot mate with other beings. Also, the Shapers really do need to form a more democratic government. Yes, keep Shaping regulated by Shapers, but let a combination of Shapers and laypersons form a democratic government! A few (not so) simple changes can really go a long way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Gondor2222 Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 Wait..i heard from some of you in another post that there is an ending where you kill everybody and the rebels and shapers call a truce to hunt you down. How do you get this ending? If I kill ghaldring, the game ends, so i can't kill shapers too X D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Spddin Ignis Posted April 18, 2009 Author Share Posted April 18, 2009 it is democratic, 7 councilors, 7 councilors vote, BAM!!! decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall A less presumptuous name. Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 Originally Posted By: Gondor2222 Wait..i heard from some of you in another post that there is an ending where you kill everybody and the rebels and shapers call a truce to hunt you down. How do you get this ending? If I kill ghaldring, the game ends, so i can't kill shapers too X D. This happens whenever you attack a major leader, like Alwan or Ghaldring, without a specific quest to do so. Originally Posted By: Shaper Spddin it is democratic, 7 councilors, 7 councilors vote, BAM!!! decision. Not quite what I had in mind... Although I'm sure the Shapers will give you a nice bag of coin for that answer!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Acky Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 No, Spddin, that's a Republic. A Democracy. There is certainly no free electoral system under the Shaper regime. Edit: And for the record, its NINE councilors The Last Archon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Spddin Ignis Posted April 18, 2009 Author Share Posted April 18, 2009 thats the beauty of shaper democracy, coin, i love it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall A less presumptuous name. Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 Originally Posted By: Master Ackrovan Edit: And for the record, its NINE councilors The Last Archon I recall that it was 9 in 4 and that somehow 2 disappeared between 4 and 5. There Shema, the two coastals, Rawal, Astoria, Alwan, and Nutso-Taygen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Acky Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 Okay...not related to the discussion, but okay. The Last Archon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Acky Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 Originally Posted By: Master1 Originally Posted By: Master Ackrovan Edit: And for the record, its NINE councilors The Last Archon I recall that it was 9 in 4 and that somehow 2 disappeared between 4 and 5. There Shema, the two coastals, Rawal, Astoria, Alwan, and Nutso-Taygen. In all 4 previous Geneforge games, there has been Nine councilors. If you really want to make sense of it, we can tell ourselves that three councilors were killed inbetween G4 and G5, and Alwan was the only one to take one of their places. The Last Archon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Student of Trinity Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 Even long before the rebellion got going, rogues were a familiar danger in the Geneforge world. For all their vaunted control, the Shapers can't keep them down. Neither can they seem to suppress the necromancers and demon-summoners, many of whom come from within their own ranks. In fact, the most dangerous rogues in the Geneforge universe, by very far, are the rogue Shapers. And they are everywhere. I mean, what is it with these people? I'm just going from fallible memory here, but I can't think of a single Shaper research facility in the entire Geneforge series that hasn't been sealed up after a horrible disaster, except for the ones that the PC has to sabotage for some quest. But the Shapers keep on building them, keep on trying to make an even crazier acid-eating golem-monstrosity than the last one. And there are live mad Shaper wackos of one sort or other in every single game. Of named Shaper NPCs in all the games, how many are corrupt? It's not a matter of counting: it's a percentage, and not all that small. So, whatever the Shapers are, they are not the infallible wardens of creation that they pretend to be. They can't control their creations, and they can't control themselves. All they can really do is keep the serviles and normals down. The question remains, though, whether their failure is noble or despicable. I'm afraid we may never be able to resolve this, because I'm not sure the games provide the crucial information. It could be that the Shapers are just a bunch of essence-drooling thugs, shaking down the world. They may have been successful for long enough to have enshrined their rapacity in tradition, but for all their laws and discipline, they're just gangsters, and the mad ones are truer to the real Shaper spirit than the sane ones will ever admit. On this view, the reason the Shapers rule the world, despite not really being competent to do so, is that they were never really trying to do a decent job of ruling. They're only good at keeping their subjects down, because that's all they're really trying to do. Or it could be that the Geneforge world is just a really dangerous place, because magical power is much easier to acquire than the Shapers would have people believe. On this view, the reason the Shapers are so ineffective at controlling the wackos is just that it's an uphill fight, because there are Monarchs popping up every other month. And the reason they pretend to be more effective than they are is that the myth of Shaper discipline helps intimidate the rogues and crazies. Maybe it's also the dream that keeps the sane Shapers going. So are the Shapers themselves the basic problem, or are they its not quite adequate solution? I think maybe we'll never know. If we could see the coastal provinces we could see what the Shapers were really aiming for, and gauge how well they were doing, away from the frontiers and before the war. But we never will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Dikiyoba Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 Originally Posted By: Master1 Also, for those who say that Shaping does more bad than good, I invite you to play geneforge 2. While the shaping that takes place is illegal, it manages to beautify an otherwise inhospitable landscape. It's pointed out that the level of Shaping done there will be a disaster in the long run and leave the area worse off than before. --- Originally Posted By: Darkdread However, they might as well have just fled to some distant island and I don't think the shapers would take the time to chase them all over the world. The free creations could have found a place to live in peace outside terrestria. Fled to where? The Shapers control the known world and the Sholai aren't about to get involved (a second time). Plus, while there are plenty of places for rebellious creations to hide from the Shapers, none of them are exactly great places to be. Hiding in a cave or wasteland, struggling to make ends meet and always worried that a Shaper or bigger rogue might find you, isn't much of a life. Quote: *maybe* they have feelings What games are you playing? The series has countless scared serviles, angry serviles, some happy serviles, and even a servile in mourning (Natley in G1). Of course they have feelings. --- Originally Posted By: Master1 It's not like they'll dilute the genepool, seeing as how they most likely cannot mate with other beings. What exactly are you trying to say here? Serviles are one of the creation types that can reproduce, and are apparently so difficult to Shape that they are encouraged to. --- Dikiyoba's view on the subject is still "Meh". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Acky Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 Quote: It's pointed out that the level of Shaping done there will be a disaster in the long run and leave the area worse off than before. I was always under the impression that it was just the area's around Medab that was doomed. The Last Archon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chittering Clawbug Paladin95 Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 The statement, I believe, is that a single misstep can devastate the area. Specifically, the extremely fast-growing plants around Medab will eventually leech most of the nutrients from the soil. However, it's entirely reasonable to expect that most of the life in the Drypeak Mountains was shaped simply to require different, fewer, and/or less nutrients than their naturally-occurring counterparts. On the topic of the thread, I've always seen the Shapers as the tragic heroes. After the survivors of the Sucia tribal wars saw the horror of random mutations, they resolved to never allow such monstrosities to be recreated. Unwittingly, they created intelligent creatures that posed just as much of a threat, eventually toppling the peaceful, prosperous society the Shapers had erected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Acky Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 The Shapers are anything but peaceful The Last Archon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Gondor2222 Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 Basically, I think that if the Shapers had never made the mistake of creating Drayks and Drakons, the whole Rebellion wouldn't have happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Dikiyoba Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 Originally Posted By: Paladin95 The statement, I believe, is that a single misstep can devastate the area. Specifically, the extremely fast-growing plants around Medab will eventually leech most of the nutrients from the soil. However, it's entirely reasonable to expect that most of the life in the Drypeak Mountains was shaped simply to require different, fewer, and/or less nutrients than their naturally-occurring counterparts. It's implied that most of the landscaping done past Freegate was done by Barzahl. If he made one mistake boneheaded enough for an apprentice to catch, the odds of him making other mistakes are high. Though the Shapers' legal contribution to the colony's ecosystem is those weedy, destructive trees, so they aren't doing any better. Dikiyoba. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Tarson Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 I have supported the shapers 90% until I played the full version of g2. I go around talk down to serviles and support shaper rule so I figured that made me a loyalist but I used canisters as well. After my meeting with Barzhal I relized that the Barzanites are the closest thing to meeting my goals. The shapers would still have power, creations would still be 0 class, shaping/magic seemed to have been used by more people, and there were canisters. Its not perfect but what is? As for class I tried the shaper but it didnt have enough health and the guardian didnt have enough magic so i went to the agent and never went back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Spddin Ignis Posted April 18, 2009 Author Share Posted April 18, 2009 but in the geneforge world they dont show you the areas in which are not saledup because what is the fun. Think about the Gull island research warrens, they weren't closed up. but they were filled with rogues in large part due to the serviles that over took the island. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Spddin Ignis Posted April 18, 2009 Author Share Posted April 18, 2009 Originally Posted By: Master Ackrovan The Shapers are anything but peaceful If you read the game scripts the shapers have kept the world in peace until the rebellion started. Also the serviles don't seem to develop feelings if they are not left to become independent. In the times before G1 if they had just taken the serviles with them this whole rebellion could've been avoided. They might have had to deal with Trajkov but he is just an outsider who cant even control the power correctly and he's an idiot if you would like to see an example Click to reveal.. When you trick trajkov into using the geneforge with the fake gloves after you have him send his creations out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Spddin Ignis Posted April 18, 2009 Author Share Posted April 18, 2009 Originally Posted By: Master1 Serviles are pretty much the same. Let them live their lives. Make new serviles with less intelligence (already being done) to prevent more intelligent ones, and let those who are intelligent go free. If you haven't noticed(hopefuly you have) the free serviles want to free other serviles so in order to effectively keep serviles from becoming rogu you have to kill off all of the rogue ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Ouroboros Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 Originally Posted By: Shaper Spddin If you read the game scripts the shapers have kept the world in peace until the rebellion started. Also the serviles don't seem to develop feelings if they are not left to become independent. In the times before G1 if they had just taken the serviles with them this whole rebellion could've been avoided. They might have had to deal with Trajkov but he is just an outsider who cant even control the power correctly and he's an idiot if you would like to see an example Click to reveal.. When you trick trajkov into using the geneforge with the fake gloves after you have him send his creations out. Actually they just can take the Servile back before the barring of the island this will make the rebellion never happened and no Takers, but it seems Shaper really don't care about Servile so they just left them also about Trajkov Click to reveal.. He actually can control the shaping power and the arrogance He even can control himself better than PC when he used the Geneforge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasoned Roamer shaper_medej Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 Now that i think of it the original Trakovite idea is the closest solution to make a perfect world. Although i don't like the drakons i still like serviles and rebels, shapers are harsh but the drakons make a total new line of harsh and mad. If the two shapers from G2 wouldn't save the serviles and create the drakons the war wouldn't start, Litalia wouldn't find the drakon that made her brake away from the shapers and the big rebelion wouldn't start but then the events would change. A rebelion would only be delayed for some other mad shaper would create something that might trigger it. So shapeing is eventually found (by me) to dangerous but even if drakons existed and they couldn't (or wouldn't) shape they wouldn't change into some strange mad army of mass destruction. So the Trakovite idea is the most potent to ending all danger from magic and shapeing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Spddin Ignis Posted April 18, 2009 Author Share Posted April 18, 2009 Why would you give up the power to create life. This power is only dangerous if it is not kept under proper control Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk nikki. Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 Originally Posted By: Shaper Spddin Why would you give up the power to create life. This power is only dangerous if it is kept under proper control I'm sorry, but that has to be a typo. When the Shapers still kept the power to shape under control (and under lock-and-key, as it were), there were no hordes of rogues running around eating people. How is that more dangerous than letting everybody summon their own personal army? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasoned Roamer shaper_medej Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 I would rather live a little harder then being eaten alive by some rouge creation and being blasted by mad drakons. And have my home destroyed by the unbound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Spddin Ignis Posted April 18, 2009 Author Share Posted April 18, 2009 It was a typo, thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Spddin Ignis Posted April 18, 2009 Author Share Posted April 18, 2009 why do the sholai still exist. The shapers should've blasted them after G1. Stupid diplomacy> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Tarson Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 I think they didnt get killed was that the shapers have no way of getting to them. I seem to remeber in g1 someone saying it was to hard to get across the ocean. Why walk knowingly into a stalemate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Spddin Ignis Posted April 18, 2009 Author Share Posted April 18, 2009 Shapers have living crafts. Very few shapers have went to sholai lands in #1. but i beleive now that they know it exists they have the possibliliy of getting over there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Tarson Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 They had living craft in g1. The shapers could move people over but it took 3 sholai ships and 2 of them sunk. I dont think they could send over enough troops to make the losses on the trip worthwhile. Food would be another problem for both the soilders and the ship. Even if they managed to land some troops they would be lost and seperated. Easy targets for the sholai. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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