Articulate Vlish DrRorschach Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Ok, so I've seen this discussed in numerous posts, but none actually gigve me the spoiler I need. I'm stuck with the (first) mirror puzzle. I can't seem to move the mirror out of a few hexes without needing to run all the way around the wall, and move it back. It won't line up with the baddie machine in the north room, so where do i move the mirror, and how do i get it there before the orb sucks all my health? I really hate to ask stupid questions, but I couldn't find a walkthrough or any better explanation than 'you move the mirrors' and I refuse to be beaten by a lousy mirror lol! Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Articulate Vlish DrRorschach Posted February 26, 2009 Author Share Posted February 26, 2009 Ok, so after literally spending a ridiculous amount of the last 28 hours obsessing, i finally figured it out. It would've been helpful if I had actually seen a dialog telling me that I had found a mirror, let alone two. I found the second, and after an inordinate amount of deaths+reloads due to the increased agitation of the 'perfect' spirit, killed the machine and spirit, and powered the portal. This is one scenario that won't get replayed despite the fact that I apparently missed a spaceship somewhere? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Niemand Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Sorry none of us got here in time to answer your question. Yes, there's a sort of spaceship you could find (I missed it the first two times I played also), but it's not that big a deal; the story itself is barely altered, and since the existence of a spaceship is so grossly out of canon I pretty much ignored it. The Perfect Spirit fight is a bit annoying, but you may find that later you want to go back and give the scenario another try; after all, now you know exactly how to handle it. In the meantime, there are plenty of other good third party scenarios around, as you may already be well aware. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Articulate Vlish DrRorschach Posted February 28, 2009 Author Share Posted February 28, 2009 Yeah, I've working my way through the scenarios creating and discussed on this board. My guide for which to play in what order is Imban's experiment with his Avatar and Pariah characters. So far, I've been loving the variety, and can't wait to run through some more! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unflappable Drayk Jeran Korak Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 Where can you find the spaceship? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast *i Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 The spaceship is a little tricky to find. You need to find an amulet in the Grotto that can be used. Take the amulet to the stone circle in the second half of the scenario and use it. A gateway will open to the spaceship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody The Lurker Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 Originally Posted By: Niemand since the existence of a spaceship is so grossly out of canon Well, yes and no. A spaceship would seem out of place in an Avernum game, but it is most certainly "canon" in Stareye's universe. I mean, seriously. Many good scenarios do what they want with the Exile/Avernum universe : TM's series, Stareye's series, The Arc, Doom Moon... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Niemand Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 You seem to miss my point entirely: The existence of the spaceship makes *i's universe incompatible with Jeff's, even though they are otherwise the same. Since by definition Jeff's work is the canon of the series, anything incompatible with it is non-canonical. This is not to say that it is bad, merely that it doesn't fit. Whether a lot of designers make scenarios that claim to exist in Jeff's universe but do not conform to Jeff's fictional framework is irrelevant. EDIT: In the strictest sense nothing composed by 3rd party designers can be canon with respect to Jeff's universe. However, it seems convenient to me to distinguish between material which is non-canonical but compatible, and material that is wholly compatible. The reason i brought this up in the first place was that I considered the spaceship to be the point at which APF crossed the line to be incompatible with Jeff's framework. I guess that not everyone would see it that way though, as Jeff never explicitly says that there are no spaceships in the world of Avernum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon The Almighty Doer of Stuff Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 Perhaps the point of contention is your assertion that things that aren't canon can be rightly ignored. That forces you to ignore a lot of things in a lot of scenarios. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody The Lurker Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 Seconded, ADoS. Oh, and this part is especially funny : Originally Posted By: Niemand The existence of the spaceship makes *i's universe incompatible with Jeff's, even though they are otherwise the same. Have you ever played Stareye's BoE scenarios? Anyway, ADoS got me pretty much right : my point was that it's useless for a designer to try to keep up with Jeff's "canon" (or lack thereof, considering the huge amount of "retconning" he's done over the years). If you start ignoring things that don't fit well in Jeff's universe, you might as well ignore the story in a lot of Blades scenarios. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Lilith Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 I don't really see how spaceships in a fantasy world are any more absurd than vending machines, and there was one of those in VoDT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Slawbug Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 Besides which, the existence of the Vahnatai implies the existence of spaceships. I mean, they look just like the stereotypical thin glowing aliens that were all over pop culture in the mid 90's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Celtic Minstrel Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 I disagree. I think it instead implies that Avernum is set on the home planet of the stereotypical thin glowing aliens that were all over pop culture in the mid 90's... possibly before they developed space travel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast *i Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 How I've always seen things is Jeff's universe acts as a template. It is convenient because it allows a designer not to have to develop and flesh out a completely unique universe of their own. It took Jeff three pretty large games to do this fully, but he still has a lot of loose ends. An individual designer within the context of a single scenario would have a harder time doing this, so Jeff's universe makes a convenient fall back. The problem is, once you start using Jeff's universe for these reasons, it is hard to completely remove oneself from it as the story develops. Believe me, I've thought about it, but I feel it a lot easier to introduce new things than to do major retconning. So my attitude has been this: My scenarios take place in my universe which is based on the template of Jeff's. I have a similar attitude about this with other designers as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Articulate Vlish DrRorschach Posted March 9, 2009 Author Share Posted March 9, 2009 So I'm not the first person to do this, ( a la http://www.ironycentral.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=35721#Post35721) but I will follow up my APF question with a question about Rats Aplenty. I'm in the Ancient City, and after killing the rats, and talking to the one, I went back to the city to sell stuff and to rest. Unfortunately, while in the city, I sold off the Ancient Short Sword, Ancient Boots, and Ancient (chain mail?) armour to the junk collector in the bar. Being forced to resort to a readme, I realized that I couldn't continue without those items. Mores the problem, he no longer has them for sale, otherwise I'd just get them back. Is there a way to get these items back, like SDF codes in A5, or with the character editor or something? I'd really hate to ruin my 100% scenario completion rate only 14 into my run. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Enraged Slith Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 You'll be fine. I can't give you any specifics but, to ease your immediate concern, you can either give yourself the items or activate the sdf via the character editor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Niemand Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 According to the scenario's datascript, those items are numbers 456-459. You can use the Character Editor's "Advanced Features"->"Give An Item" to give them to your party. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Articulate Vlish DrRorschach Posted March 10, 2009 Author Share Posted March 10, 2009 Thank you Slith and Niemand! Worked perfectly, and erased my worries! :-) Just out of curiosity Niemand, how did you find those numbers to check that? I'm new to the scripts part of BoA, but if I can learn basics like that for myself, rather than bothering the board further.... Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Niemand Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 The file I looked at was ratsdata.txt. Each scenario can have a data script, whose file name is that of the scenario file with 'data' appended to it. This script adds additional object definitions or overrides those built into the game (Note that the built-in definitions are also stored in scripts, namely corescendata.txt and corescendata2.txt in the Blades of Avernum Files directory.) The scripts are formatted in a pretty straightforward way: Each object definition begins with a declaration stating which kind of object will be defined and which number the definition is stored as. There may follow a 'clear' command which resets all default values, or an import command which copies the data from another, already complete definition. The body is then a set of lines setting the values of the various properties of the object. Some of these will be pretty clear in meaning, while others are more esoteric and require referring to the documentation. If you'd like to learn more about the scripting system, the place to start is reading the documentation files that come with the BoA Editor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Enraged Slith Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 It's actually pretty easy and fun to start with the data scripts, as you can make an assortment of custom items for your party to use. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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