a question about the spell "daze"

[BehemothMargerine]

Why is it that, one of the spellbooks you can improve Daze from, mentions it's a spell every thief should have and yet you *CAN'T* cast daze on people in order to steal stuff? Especially because it puts you in battle mode instantly, and they're considered allies so it doesn't work. I have to ask: Why was this done?

[Lilith]

Don't trust flavour text.

[Elijah]

That would make the game way to easy (in money terms, at least).

 

To expand on flavour text, it's there to add a feeling of depth. It helps create a realistic world. If you simply clicked on a book, and it said, "You have learned the spell Daze", that wouldn't be very fun, would it?

[Fort]

Though that text was cleary added for atmosphere and flavor, if you want to take it literally then you must at least consider all possibilities.

 

You want it to be that dazing people could allow you to steal things in front of them without them becoming hostile. However, you can use it to steal things and escape a fight. To me, that is why every thief should have it. It is not a way to conceal you crime, just a way to escape from its repercussions.

[Ephesos]

Yeah, the person might be Dazed, but they should still be able to see what's going on right in front of them. Strong Daze, on the other hand... maybe if it was strong enough (in flavor terms) to induce unconsciousness.

 

Then again, I'd just kind of like to see unconsciousness implemented in some Avernum game. It's something I've wanted to do in Blades, at least.

[BehemothMargerine]

Actually, the nature of the spell, if you want to be realistic, would mean that daze makes it impossible for you to mentally function, such as move your limbs, eyes, hear, or anything, properly. The stronger you are will and intelligence wise, the more you can resist the mental clouding. "strong daze" would basically daze even intelligent people, such as somewhat trained (or well trained) wizards and sages (maybe that's pushing it, though). A thief basis everything on NOT getting caught, therefore, clouding the persons mind would be a good tactic, especially if you *HAD* to steal something and them seeing you just isn't an option (like, for instance, them seeing you then you becomming sort of #1 on the watch list even if you dazed them afterwards). Realistically, the spell would basically be used for thieves as a *BEFORE* effect, rather then a nasty "they still remember my face" after effect that would make any thief get into some fair amount of known trouble.

 

The definition of thief: One who steals, especially by stealth.

 

Therefore, realistically, this is how the spell would be applied logically. unless the spell workings don't cloud someones mind to the point of them not being able to concentrate enough to remember anything while they were in a daze. Unfortunately, that basically contradicts being in a daze. *especially* strong daze.

 

Edit: and if you're going to create an atmosphere, suggesting it's a spell thieves use would suggest they use it to aid in their stealth, as opposed to getting CAUGHT and thus *faces remembered* and *no longer very stealthy*. Then you have mental ability put into play when a person is in a daze. Talking is out of the question, and if you check information about the brain and psychology, I seriously doubt, depending on how dazed you are, your ability to remember or see very well at all.

 

So, that is where the intelligence of the person you dazed comes into play, and thus, the balancing factor and realism factor.

[-=microphage=-]

Quote:

Originally written by Garrison:
Though that text was cleary added for atmosphere and flavor, if you want to take it literally then you must at least consider all possibilities.

You want it to be that dazing people could allow you to steal things in front of them without them becoming hostile. However, you can use it to steal things and escape a fight. To me, that is why every thief should have it. It is not a way to conceal you crime, just a way to escape from its repercussions.

I've noticed that trying to use ANY offense spells on a friendly or neutral NPC doesn't work and puts you in combat mode and even if you selected spell first then "attack" it will use whatever weapon is in hand (not the spell) killing the NPC and make anyone in sight hostile (or the whole town).

Closing doors is helpful, or a brief use of cheat "showmeall" would let you know if anyone was in sight range, then you could turn it off with "dontshowmeall". And steal without anyone seeing you. Also many NPC's will walk out of sight if you move around a bit then steal with no one watching.

The way I deal with this usually is do the stealing in no more than say 2 NY items (always save game first as some NPC's are more touchy) use "forgiveme" or "pleaselikeme" and walk off a bit to make sure they don't go hostile, then take a few more NY items and repeat process. In effect this is the ultimate "spell" if you can remove the memory of the whole thing from the NPC's mind and not go into combat mode.

I also would like to see the ability to use Mage/Priest spells on "friendlies" and avoid killing, town going hostile, and resorting to cheat codes. A lot of people don't like codes but they ARE built in to the game, published and documented. The last item on last page of Book of Answers is all about cheats. Used in moderation the "guilt level" is much lower than killing an innocent NPC and, not to mention, risking a whole town going hostile. As far as I recall the only way to make a town friendly again is to use a code and return later.

I too would like to be able to "Daze" as well as other spells on friendly, neutral characters. I think I'll check the A5 ideas and suggest it...