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Chosimba_dup1

Pike / Spear / Halberd vs Sword / Dagger aka Pole vs. Melee

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I have to make a decision to go either Pole or Melee weapons.

 

I know that the Sword / Dagger route lets you get more defense, but I was wondering specifically for this game which people prefer?

 

Which weapons have the most bonuses and magic imbued in them?

 

Do Daggers and Swords have better magical bonuses than the Polearms have (extra strength, bonus magic damage, etc)? Or do they both pretty much have the same amounts and types of bonuses to them? Will I really be missing out on some great Shield extras later in the game also?

 

I like the extra damage of the Spears, but I'm wondering if I'm going to kick myself in the butt later for missing out on Sword/Dagger bonuses and Shield bonuses.

 

I was unable to find a discussion of this topic here with the Search function, so if this has already been discussed in much detail feel free to point me to the other topic or topics.

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Telanos   
Quote:

Personally I like to give my Slith fighter pole weapons and my human fighter edged weapons and a shield.
I do this as well. I generally try and build characters based around their given strengths and weaknesses.

Having said that, I try aim for variety rather than powergaming. Spidweb games have generally been easy enough that you can kill stuff fairly easily without having to resort to calculating which combination of equipment gives you maximum power.

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The jury is split. You can find good swords sooner than you'll find good spears, but by the end it's even, more or less. The spears will do a little bit more damage and the swords are probably a little bit better in non-damage bonuses.

 

—Alorael, who prefers sword and shield. The damage difference isn't huge, and the stat bonuses from swords and shields more than make up for it. On the other hand, being able to use the Jade Halberd and the Oozing Sword means you will have a lot of acid working for you.

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Ephesos   
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Originally written by Infernal666hate:
Acid Bow..... (one of the best bows)
Acid Spell... (one of the best all-game spells)
Acid Spear... (the best spear)
Acid Sword... (one of the best swords)

Think JV may have something he wants to share with us?
I dispute the first two claims. I think the Shockwave Bow and Heartstriker are far better than the Bow of Decay, and that other spells serve much more extended purposes than Acid Spray... Daze, for one.

Also, while the Jade Halberd is probably the best spear, the swords offer a far more balanced variety. I personally found the Frozen Blade's cursing to be very useful, as well as Demonslayer's plethora of defensive bonuses. And the Radiant Soulblade... heck, even the Ghostly Blade has enough ungodly defensive bonuses (+6% hostile resistance?!) to outshine the middle-of-the-road Oozing Blade.

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Walter   

One thing I'm curious about, is that though the weapons tell you thier base damage, they don't say how much extra is added per point. Do spears give more per point than swords? How about shortshords vs broadswords or spears vs. halbreds?

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Lilith   

Divide a weapon's maximum damage by its minimum damage to get the size of its damage dice. For a sword, every point of Strength, Melee Weapons or Blademaster adds an extra die to damage. (For a spear, obviously, Pole Weapons replaces Melee Weapons. For a bow, damage is affected by Dexterity, Bows and Sharpshooter.)

 

For example, suppose a sword is listed as doing 10-30 damage. Divide 30 by 10 to get 3 -- every die of damage for that weapon does 1-3. So getting an extra point of Strength will allow you to do an extra 1-3 damage per hit with that weapon.

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VCH   

Whatever happened to the ambidextrous ability that Averenties possessed in E1-E3?

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They weren't Avernites in Exile, and obviously using two hands at once is much more difficult isometrically than in two dimensions.

 

—Alorael, who also suspects that the addition of weapon to the character sprites and certain balance considerations dictated the removal of ambidexterity.

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Avernum got rid of the two weapon buzzsaw effect. Two hits per attack and more attacks from Major Blessing, Major Haste, etc was just too good to last.

 

Sliths are the only ones to truly benefit from pole weapons since they start with it at 2 and get more powerful without any work. It doesn't take that long to get an iron spear. With quick action around 5 or 6 and Elite Warrior slith can give a couple of 40 hits without much more. Have enough dexterity and defense to aid dodging and you can tough out the lower armor.

 

Sword and shield works best for most characters since the spellcasters can use the defensive bonuses and use bows for their offensive weapon. Shielding knife, Bonding blade, Ghostly Knife are great for them in a party of four.

 

As a singleton I started with the shielding knife, went to fine cleaver, then the ghostly knife. The bonding blade hurts too much on strength. I'm saving the oozing blade for later when I have enough other protections.

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Quote:
Originally written by Ephesos:
I dispute the first two claims. I think the Shockwave Bow and Heartstriker are far better than the Bow of Decay,(one of the best bows) and that other spells serve much more extended purposes than Acid Spray... Daze, for one. (one of the best all-game spells.)

Also, while the Jade Halberd is probably the best spear, the swords offer a far more balanced variety. I personally found the Frozen Blade's cursing to be very useful, as well as Demonslayer's plethora of defensive bonuses. And the Radiant Soulblade... heck, even the Ghostly Blade has enough ungodly defensive bonuses (+6% hostile resistance?!) to outshine the middle-of-the-road Oozing Blade.
And as opposed to the multitude of other swords? If it makes it into the top ten it beomes one of the best swords.

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Lilith   
Quote:
Originally written by Randomizer:
As a singleton I started with the shielding knife, went to fine cleaver, then the ghostly knife. The bonding blade hurts too much on strength. I'm saving the oozing blade for later when I have enough other protections.
I find that the Bonding Knife is only really useful for a pure spellcaster or a pure archer, since it doesn't do enough damage for use by a fighter, and a multiskilled character will suffer too much from the multiple penalties. I used one on my mage from the time I found it through to the end of the game. (He also wore quite a bit of other Strength-penalising gear -- if Strength could go into negatives, which it fortunately can't, I think his would have been at -2. He was barely strong enough to wear all his normal equipment and carry one or two potions without being encumbered.)

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I agree with Thuryl. I stopped using my bonding knife because I couldn't carry my equipment without a severe action point penalty. As a singleton you need to use other equipment like belts to negate one penalty just to stay even.

 

In my party of four, one spellcaster got the emerald chestguard and the other the bonding knife and a leather armor. I have to keep all the other equipment weight below encumbered level.

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Having said that, I try aim for variety rather than powergaming. Spidweb games have generally been easy enough that you can kill stuff fairly easily without having to resort to calculating which combination of equipment gives you maximum power.
I must disagree here, sorry laugh

Spiderweb games are easy enough not to worry if you crank the difficulty of them down, but with higher difficulties Spiderweb games are some of the most difficult games ever invented. You have to take every single little advantage point you can get by every little last point if your difficulty is raised. They're easy if you want them to be and set them to easy, but you can certainly play on some of the most difficult levels ever put into gaming too.

Still, thanks everybody for the information so far.

I'm thinking of going with Shield and Sword type combinations, as I want bonuses more than damage I think anyway.

I only have one character that I am trying to decide for this on. Two of them are magic users that need the extra shield defense and do all their damage in magic anyway. One of them is pure Bow all the time. My last one, my poor little Nephilim, is stuck as a rogue and fighter type but I never did decide on what type of weapon to use on her. I've put it off and she mainly has turned into my Mule holding all my stuff and being so over weighed down that she can't attack anyway :p so I haven't worried about it too much yet but I need to decide soon before I get further into the game.

So I just have the one character that will use either sword or spear types, so I don't have one that uses one and one another. She's my main melee character too, and despite that she's a Nephilim and would be better off as a different class or race she's a big part of my role playing and a part of my party family laugh

Something still is alluring about the spears, arrg.

Anyway thanks for all the information everybody. I'll make a firm decision about it soon and have more information from you all that will help me make it.

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Milla   
Quote:
Originally written by Infernal666hate:
Acid Bow..... (one of the best bows)
Acid Spell... (one of the best all-game spells)
Acid Spear... (the best spear)
Acid Sword... (one of the best swords)

Think JV may have something he wants to share with us?
Ah... the acid spell, that saved me several times in Metris (Damn undead that were resistant to my dispel undead spell.)

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The undead gave me trouble my first time through as well. However, going to talk with the hermit really makes things much easier, and I'd recommend doing just that prior to taking on the majority of the undead.

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Ephesos   
Quote:
Originally written by Schrodinger:
The undead gave me trouble my first time through as well. However, going to talk with the hermit really makes things much easier, and I'd recommend doing just that prior to taking on the majority of the undead.
I'd recommend talking to the hermit before taking on any of the undead... toughing it all out while Acid Spray does its work is no fun...

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Telanos   
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I must disagree here, sorry [big Grin]

Spiderweb games are easy enough not to worry if you crank the difficulty of them down, but with higher difficulties Spiderweb games are some of the most difficult games ever invented. You have to take every single little advantage point you can get by every little last point if your difficulty is raised. They're easy if you want them to be and set them to easy, but you can certainly play on some of the most difficult levels ever put into gaming too.
I play on normal difficulty (default setting). While I know you can increase the difficulty setting, I never feel the need to do so. I play games to enjoy its storyline - not to nut my way through ever more difficult battles although that may be something I do along the way.

Still, whatever floats your boat.

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Quote:
Originally written by Chosimba:
[QB]I must disagree here, sorry laugh

Spiderweb games are easy enough not to worry if you crank the difficulty of them down, but with higher difficulties Spiderweb games are some of the most difficult games ever invented. You have to take every single little advantage point you can get by every little last point if your difficulty is raised. They're easy if you want them to be and set them to easy, but you can certainly play on some of the most difficult levels ever put into gaming too.
I played through A4 on Torment, and it wasn't too difficult even despite my huge mistakes (such as going for Riposte and Lethal Blow, each of which I had spent only two points in when I won the game, and making one character both a mage and priest without either Natural Mage or Pure Spirit.) Of course, this may have to do with the fact that I do every little side quest and explore every area, so my party is much stronger than most peoples' parties when they get to the same stage of the game.

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If you want to have some fun, go unarmed for melee. At strength 2 and blademaster 2 you can hit a goblin for 10 to 11 points of damage.

 

To duel Crain, I had just one fighter slap him around. With war blessing at str 6 and blade 10 he did 15 (3 times), 17 (2), 19, 21, 22 (3), and 28 (2).

 

I would ony recommend this in safe fights where you can lose.

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