Avernum V ideas

[Igor]

You know what else I'd like? A freaking light spell, or candles/torches/lamps/etc. A4 is bad for my eyes.

[Nepharim]

Bring about 10 different Nephilim and Slithzerikai sprites, a story like we're used to, some extra content and a possibility for window play, and I'll be all happy.

[Opimus Strenuus Thesaurus]

Is there no one else out there who misses the haste group and major blessing spells?

 

For me, having to haste each and every character individually detracts from both the game playability and my enjoyment of it.

 

Or did I miss something?

 

I've played Ave 4 all the way through once. I loved it, and will come back and play it again sometime soon.

 

Puhlease, bring back the group haste for Ave 5!

 

Thanks for any comments/replies!

[-=microphage=-]

Quote:

Originally written by Opimus Strenuus Thesaurus:
Is there no one else out there who misses the haste group and major blessing spells?

For me, having to haste each and every character individually detracts from both the game playability and my enjoyment of it.

Or did I miss something?

I've played Ave 4 all the way through once. I loved it, and will come back and play it again sometime soon.

Puhlease, bring back the group haste for Ave 5!

Thanks for any comments/replies!

Some Scrolls and wands effect group. Like Group Haste Scrolls. Also you can buy The Rod of Alacrity (Haste Group), The Rod Of Succor (Heal Group), The Rod of Defenses (Shield Group), and The Rod of Battle (Bless Group) from Sage Eichler in Spire. That's pretty far into the game but can come in handy when fighting Dorikas and Rentar. Have lots of sticks, (as many as 8) red crystals, mandrake, and herbs! Some of these scrolls and wands are spoils of battle, some custom construction, some you just find or buy. It's close to the same with Mass or Group Bless with Scrolls, drinking from basins, NPC's blessing group. There are 2 Mage Shields and 1 Priest Shield for Group.

Hope this is helpful. I've never played A? but I think the same basic abilities are there, just in a different form.

What about the ability to have "found items" and purchased items and such go to the party member who has been assigned to carry them? If you gain coins, it's spread to group. If you need construction items it scans and pulls from group. If you have, for some unknown reason, say iron scattered across group, when you see Dawdy in A4 to sell at good price, it pulls all from all members.

I admit this could be an issue if you had specific tactical reasons for spreading/splitting certain stackable items, though not sure I've run into that except when cheating but it would be convenient if game stacked the way it pulled.

[Opimus Strenuus Thesaurus]

Quote:

Originally written by Micro Phage:

Quote:

Originally written by Opimus Strenuus Thesaurus:
Is there no one else out there who misses the haste group and major blessing spells?

For me, having to haste each and every character individually detracts from both the game playability and my enjoyment of it.

Or did I miss something?

I've played Ave 4 all the way through once. I loved it, and will come back and play it again sometime soon.

Puhlease, bring back the group haste for Ave 5!

Thanks for any comments/replies!

Rod of Alacrity and Group Haste Scrolls are in A4. Some are spoils of battle, some custom construction, some you just find or buy. It's close to the same with Mass or Group Bless with Scrolls, drinking from basins, NPC's blessing group. There are 2 Mage Shields and 1 Priest Shield for Group.

Hope this is helpful. I've never played A? but I think the same basic abilities are there, just in a different form.

Thanks for your reply!
I am aware of the occasional haste group scroll or wand that's out there. It is very limiting, though, and not remotely the same as having a character or two who can cast it repeatedly. From a tactical standpoint, it means that your most powerful character (your mage) has to use 2 full turns, possibly 2.5, just to get everyone in your immediate party hasted. I understand that group haste is a very powerful spell, but rather than eliminating it altogether (which doesn't make a lot of sense from the perspective of the storyline, imho) perhaps it could be limited to two squares away, or the spell points required could be raised (e. g. costing 6 points for each character hasted).
Again, losing this capability won't make me stop playing, or spending my money on the Ave 5, but it is something which I miss. Badly.
Am I just whining? Does anyone else out there want goup haste/major blessing back into the magical repetoire of the player's characters?
I know that I'm just a new guy in the forums here, but I've been playing these wonderful games for a very long time.
Again, any comments/replies are appreciated.

[Opimus Strenuus Thesaurus]

Quote:

Originally written by Micro Phage:
What about the ability to have "found items" and purchased items and such go to the party member who has been assigned to carry them? If you gain coins, it's spread to group. If you need construction items it scans and pulls from group. If you have, for some unknown reason, say iron scattered across group, when you see Dawdy in A4 to sell at good price, it pulls all from all members.

I admit this could be an issue if you had specific tactical reasons for spreading/splitting certain stackable items, though not sure I've run into that except when cheating but it would be convenient if game stacked the way it pulled.

Hope I'm not breaching protocol here by splitting up my replies to these 2 separate issues.
Item juggling is always a major chore in these games. Anything which makes this easier/automated would be helpful.
If nothing else, it seems like it might be doable to have combinable items routed to the character already carrying them.

An idea which might also be helpful would be to be able to "tie" a group of wands together, so that two wands would be combined into one item, much like with scrolls/potions.

How about a shotgun-wand technique, whereby one could activate multiple wands or scrolls simultaneously? This would mean going through a lot of magic items at once, but it could really get your party out of a tight spot! And the idea of such a mega blast just makes me all tingly!

Tell me what y'all think! Thanks!!

[*i]

It's generally encouraged to just use the edit feature rather than double post. This is to prevent people from spamming too much. From now on please do that, thanks.

[Dark Mage]

Bring back elevation for god sakes!!

[Vaecrius]

Chuck: Well, for what it's worth I like the shotwand idea, hell it sounds like the kind of thing you could've done in the original Exile... but sadly since then Jeff has had this weird thing about "game balance" or whatnot...

 

On a completely different note, has anyone at any point ever suggested a hex grid instead of a square grid for a future game, and if so how was that received?

[Ephesos]

Quote:

Originally written by Vaecrius:
On a completely different note, has anyone at any point ever suggested a hex grid instead of a square grid for a future game, and if so how was that received?

I can't see how this would be implemented for Avernum... all of the graphics would need to be fixed, which would effectively take forever. And it'd look even weirder than A4 did.

Ah, for the days of Beast Ceremony...

[Micawber]

1) Yes, I too miss mass haste, badly.

 

2) I believe GF used a hex grid, which has led to all sorts of problems. Edit: My source for this was SOT, but Jeff has now denied it.

[Alorael at Large]

It's not all that uncommon for double posts to happen when there are two different large posts or pieces of posts that need quoting. If you don't want to work out the tags and copying and pasting by hand you can click quote on both of the posts, open two reply windows, and copy one of them into the other.

 

—Alorael, who doesn't do this very much. It's usually more work than just writing out the tags. In fact, he can't remember when he's done it at all, but he's sure that he has.

[kaa]

Yeah, I too miss group haste. A lot of monsters know it, why not the good guys?

 

Something else I miss (for a looong time): ambidextrous. There are so many nice swords and I want to use them all.

[Student of Trinity]

GF does use a hex grid, underneath the continuously animated movement: you can only stop at places on the invisible hex grid. Walls and doors naturally tend to have square patterns, of course.

So it does often seem as though you can't put units quite where you should be able to. What I'm suddenly not sure about is how this issue is affected by the isometric perspective. It would seem that this might make hex grid a great idea.

[Dikiyoba]

Originally by Ephesos:

 

Quote:

Ah, for the days of Beast Ceremony...

Those were good times...

 

Originally by Opimus Strenuus Thesaurus:

 

Quote:

I understand that group haste is a very powerful spell, but rather than eliminating it altogether (which doesn't make a lot of sense from the perspective of the storyline, imho) perhaps it could be limited to two squares away, or the spell points required could be raised (e. g. costing 6 points for each character hasted).

Dikiyoba would like to go back to the days when spell levels, or at least spell level 3, actually meant something. Group hasting once the haste spell reaches level 3 makes sense, since it is convenient to use but requires effort to attain. Or at least, it should work that way.

[*i]

Quote:

Originally written by kaa:
Yeah, I too miss group haste. A lot of monsters know it, why not the good guys?

Game balance. It would make the game even easier.

[Toenail Returns]

More pirates.

Lots more.

[Spidweb]

"GF does use a hex grid, underneath the continuously animated movement: you can only stop at places on the invisible hex grid."

 

Not sure where you got this. Geneforge uses good old x-y coordinates on a square grid, like every other tile-based game ever.

 

- Jeff Vogel

[Drakefyre]

GF4 will come before Avernum 5, so you guys calling for it to be out ASAP will be a little disappointed.

[Drakefyre]

Quote:

Originally written by Opimus Strenuus Thesaurus:
Is there no one else out there who misses the haste group and major blessing spells?

Yes, and this was something I raised in my beta reports. There are an inordinate amount of offensive spells and "shielding" spells. I'd prefer a group haste, group bless, and more disabling spells. Slow/web/paralyze/sleep etc.

[Igor]

Quote:

Originally written by Drakefyre:

Quote:

Originally written by Opimus Strenuus Thesaurus:
Is there no one else out there who misses the haste group and major blessing spells?

Yes, and this was something I raised in my beta reports. There are an inordinate amount of offensive spells and "shielding" spells. I'd prefer a group haste, group bless, and more disabling spells. Slow/web/paralyze/sleep etc.

Agreed.

[Opimus Strenuus Thesaurus]

Quote:

Originally written by *i:

Quote:

Originally written by kaa:
Yeah, I too miss group haste. A lot of monsters know it, why not the good guys?

Game balance. It would make the game even easier.

Game balance can be attained, imho, by (as previously stated) upping the spell point cost, or something. The issue for me is more about playability than it is any other issue. It is tedious to have your mage casting repeated single haste spells; by the time he/she starts throwing lightning/fire/ice, the fight's more than half way over.

Thanks to everyone commenting on this subject so far! Keep it coming!

[Randomizer]

That's why you use haste potions and group haste items when you really need them for the big fights. In the earlier games you could group haste and bless in one spell and buzz saw your way through any encounter.

[Lilith]

Or just haste before you get within sight of your enemies. It has a fairly long duration, so it's unlikely to run out during combat.

[Drakefyre]

Balance out group haste by having the enemy casters use sleep fields or webs. More effects, not less!

[Alorael at Large]

Eliminate haste entirely! Make players earn their AP!

 

—Alorael, who considers the haste-bless pre-battle setup an unconscious reaction by now. It really would work almost as well to have the spells cost a much larger amount of energy and give them a duration like Enduring Armor's.

[Randomizer]

I used to have fast on feet in the earlier Avernum games because it acted as a free fighter haste. In Exile 3 it was possible to get Major Blessing (group haste and blessing) from the Vahnatai city near the beginning as my only high level spell that I could already use before I got to the Slime quest. In A4 you have to get extra AP items (none before the Great Cave) or use haste potion/spell to get extra attacks.

 

The way to balance out the group haste for the monsters was repeated slow spells if you couldn't take them out quickly. Of course Nodicuas drank haste potions like water when you slowed him so I found that there was no real point in wasting time slowing monsters and just concentrated in killing them before they could take advantage of their extra attacks.

[Peregrine]

Just thinking about a new kind of menace for future Avernum games, that would fit in with the underground theme, how about some kind of slime or algae that was mutated by a magical experiment, and now it has the ability to turn part of itself into duplicates of creatures that it kills. This could be worked into the game in a small way (a side quest where goblins or bandits are turning into green goop when slain) or in a larger way, where the hive mind or master slime that is intelligent and controlling some large plot has to be tracked down and destroyed.

[Goldengirl]

Sorry, but Jeff already did slimes in A3. A good foe for us to fight is something none of us could imagine.

[-=microphage=-]

Quote:

Originally written by Peregrine:
Just thinking about a new kind of menace for future Avernum games, that would fit in with the underground theme, how about some kind of slime or algae that was mutated by a magical experiment, and now it has the ability to turn part of itself into duplicates of creatures that it kills. This could be worked into the game in a small way (a side quest where goblins or bandits are turning into green goop when slain) or in a larger way, where the hive mind or master slime that is intelligent and controlling some large plot has to be tracked down and destroyed.

Quote:

Originally written by Goodking:
Sorry, but Jeff already did slimes in A3. A good foe for us to fight is something none of us could imagine.

Peregrine's idea reminds me of the movie "The Thing". Maybe a monster that got bigger and stronger by adding parts of your party and surrounding monsters to itself till it ultimately dies from genetic overload and your attacks. Even mimicking another creature to disguise it's true nature. Or even one or more of your party to trick you into not attacking it or hitting one of your own in the confusion!

Goodking, Hard to imagine more than variations on a theme when game characters are limited by a grid.

Could it be possible to do something like a giant amoeba or hydra that could surround/engulf entire party and look like a single entity? Stretch across large spaces, around stationary objects to attack you from behind while your facing it?

EDIT: Structure.

[Ephesos]

Quote:

Originally written by Peregrine:
how about some kind of slime or algae that was mutated by a magical experiment, and now it has the ability to turn part of itself into duplicates of creatures that it kills. This could be worked into the game in a small way (a side quest where goblins or bandits are turning into green goop when slain) or in a larger way, where the hive mind or master slime that is intelligent and controlling some large plot has to be tracked down and destroyed.

Jeff did this quite explicitly in A3, even more than Goldenking says... in the Slime Lair, there were slimes trying to engulf wolves/bandits/goblins in attempts to attain some of their shape. So it's been done.

[Vaecrius]

I've been thinking (not always a good sign, but)... how about a KO state where the character is down but not out so they could be raised with something simpler like healing or first aid, instead of going all the way back to town, and they still get XP for the rest of the fight?

 

Also, I'm probably going to be skewered for this one, but... randomized areas?

 

Here's a better idea, though: the ability, in character creation, to type in the value of a stat, instead of increasing it by clicking on the buttons.

[Ephesos]

Quote:

Originally written by Vaecrius:
I've been thinking (not always a good sign, but)... how about a KO state where the character is down but not out so they could be raised with something simpler like healing or first aid, instead of going all the way back to town, and they still get XP for the rest of the fight?

Also, I'm probably going to be skewered for this one, but... randomized areas?

Unconsciousness would be a handy way of dealing with the new death system... I really wish there was some similar system in BoA. Perhaps, an unconscious character could be picked up by another PC and carried back to safety?

Randomized areas implies interchangeable parts of the game. Interchangeable parts of the game implies unstable plotlines. Unstable plotlines imply bad game. Thus, randomized areas imply bad game.

[Alorael at Large]

Randomized three dimensional mazes would be neat!

 

—Alorael, who would hate to see all the "Help I can't get through this maze" questions that could only be answered with "Good luck."

[Lilith]

Quote:

Originally written by --and yet so far.:
Randomized three dimensional mazes would be neat!

—Alorael, who would hate to see all the "Help I can't get through this maze" questions that could only be answered with "Good luck."

Somebody's been playing Wizardry IV...

[Randomizer]

A randomized maze would be neat depending upon the monsters encountered in it. The Honeycomb was fun (I am probably in the minority on this) because you could retrace your path through a cleared route to Mertis to heal up and sell your loot. Having to start over each time or be prepared to go through it in one go maybe too hard for most players. It might be too much like Exile where you finshed a dungeon in as few trips as possible since the monsters always repopulated.

[Dintiradan]

Placing random walls in BoA (and presumably A5) is easy enough. The problem with it arises in trying to make sure the maze has at least one true passage, enough false passages, and is fairly difficult. I might take a whack at it myself after I brush up on graph theory a bit... yeah, like THAT'S going to happen...

 

This reminds me of one tower my DM made for my group. It was a teleportation maze, with glowing blue portals set inside each doorway. Of course, said DM neglected to mention the obviousness of said portals until I commented on how the tower seemed to ignore all rules of space and time. Grrr.

 

--------------------

IF I EVER BECOME AN EVIL OVERLORD:

As an equal-opportunity employer, I will have several hearing-impaired body-guards. That way if I wish to speak confidentially with someone, I'll just turn my back so the guards can't read my lips instead of sending all of them out of the room.

[Ephesos]

Quote:

Originally written by Dintiradan:
This reminds me of one tower my DM made for my group. It was a teleportation maze, with glowing blue portals set inside each doorway. Of course, said DM neglected to mention the obviousness of said portals until I commented on how the tower seemed to ignore all rules of space and time. Grrr.

Right... that's when you seize control of DM-ship and throw the guy through a portal. Seriously, that's just bad story-telling...

[Student of Trinity]

Back in my DMing days I once had a teleporting maze in which the teleportation was triggered by touching objects (cushions, books, artworks, tools, etc.) scattered through the rooms. The tricky part was that these objects teleported with the toucher. For each room there were always at least two objects that would take you to it, but these were scattered around in various other rooms.

 

I forget now exactly how it worked, but it was safe in the sense that you couldn't become permanently trapped in a room with no way out. And in retrospect the maze was actually a logical and convenient way of moving around the dead mage's enchanted palace. He would get to his bedroom by just grabbing a pillow, etc. But the system was by no means clear initially, and the RPGer instinct to grab interesting items was so strong that the party got nicely split up before they figured out what was going on.

 

Naturally there were some pretty ferocious things scattered through the maze, especially if you had to fight them alone and with no way to escape, and it all ended up being an entertaining challenge for a high level party. Those were the days.

[Ephesos]

Quote:

Originally written by Student of Trinity:
Naturally there were some pretty ferocious things scattered through the maze, especially if you had to fight them alone and with no way to escape, and it all ended up being an entertaining challenge for a high level party. Those were the days.

There has to be a way to do this in BoA... it's too good to waste...

(Runs off to the Editor)

[Vaecrius]

Seems like the randomized thing was better received than I anticipated.

 

Sooo... yet even more suggestions YAY:

 

Click on enemy

"You do not have enough AP to attack."

Click on enemy

"You do not have enough AP to attack."

"Hmm. Guess I really can't attack!" Use item. Space.

"[next person]'s turn."

[ginger8445]

ok look my idea was a bad one but at least I tried.

[Meeshka]

Quote:

Originally written by Dintiradan:
Placing random walls in BoA (and presumably A5) is easy enough. The problem with it arises in trying to make sure the maze has at least one true passage, enough false passages, and is fairly difficult. I might take a whack at it myself after I brush up on graph theory a bit... yeah, like THAT'S going to happen...

You don't need to apply a graph theory here to make a maze with one right way and several wrong. There is much more easy way to do that. All you need is to define exactly how many wrong ways you'll have, then code in the definition of a vector, a bended(bent?) vector, and crossing of two vectors. The only place, where graph theory might come in handy is when you'll count how many vectors you'll need to finish the way. But that number better be fixed.

Edit: UBB typo

[m hussain]

thats a good idea but what about instead of 4 characters why not more

[m hussain]

more mage and priest spells

[*i]

Please don't double post, use the edit feature, thanks.

[Kelandon]

Quote:

Originally written by m hussain:
what about instead of 4 characters why not more

Why? I have often found myself wanting fewer characters than 4, and never more.

[*i]

My guess would be that some people miss the "good ol' days" of Exile when you had 6 people in a party.

[Venomousblade]

Quote:

Originally written by Vaecrius:
I've been thinking (not always a good sign, but)... how about a KO state where the character is down but not out so they could be raised with something simpler like healing or first aid, instead of going all the way back to town, and they still get XP for the rest of the fight?

Also, I'm probably going to be skewered for this one, but... randomized areas?

Here's a better idea, though: the ability, in character creation, to type in the value of a stat, instead of increasing it by clicking on the buttons.

Divine Restoration spell in A4 works great for downed characters, just takes some time to get the skill up so you can use it on the battlefield.

A choice of typing in the values when spending skill point would be great, as long as the add/subtract was left intact from A4.

If I understand your meaning randomized areas, places like the Honeycomb, Mertis Spiral and the far NW caves could actually change so no maps would be any good. Would not want to see that in very many areas. Would definately increase the challenge!

It really doesn't take all that long to create and enhance characters, but a choice would be nice.

[Venomousblade]

Quote:

Originally written by Kelandon:

Quote:

Originally written by m hussain:
what about instead of 4 characters why not more

Why? I have often found myself wanting fewer characters than 4, and never more.

You could pick up additional characters along the way. Like the friendly shade and the worn out golem. Maybe adding some more of these would be nice if they stayed longer and were smarter. Acting helpfully on there own.