Avernum V ideas

[Shadow47]

Ok this is another topic today. I just got in mind, if Spiderweb would do Avernum V, what they would add into it?I got for example idea, smitheng, that you can smith own weapons if you get enough exm. iron to make a iron short sword, but to get it you dont need to only steal or get from somewhere, you could mine too but iron and other there are few around Avernum so you must find i mine and then get some and make bars by smelting 'em.

 

Well,just post your ideas here...

(hmm,mayby this kind of topic is somewhere...)

 

Yes and heres examples what would be:

races

weapons,armor,items,object

monsters

magic

skill

attribute(like strength)

or something else

 

and you can do this kind(now a weapon)

 

name

damage:#

weight:#

other...

 

yea that kind...

 

okay enough of talk!

[Commander Edward]

Hmmmm, I think a good idea would be where your players have an age

And like they're stats change as they age. Although they get more experinced as they get older, when they get too old they become weak and disease effects them much more badly.

Who else thinks this would be a good idea?

Personaly i think this would add more realism to the game

[Shadow47]

Hmm, not bad but...about the aging...how much is one year then??

 

Yeah and you mean characters?Im the player not they

 

and second edit:and the game would come really hard if youre stuck in some place for exm.3 years and when he gets to the final boss, he would be old and die from one shot...well whatever

[Shadow47]

Allright heres few ideas...

 

Race:Orc

Orcs are good with strength and endurance but

are bit slow and weak with defense due they

lack on it because they more likely use strong,

heavy weapons like axe and they dont use much

of shield and armor.Mages and priests are more

defensive than offensive.Some people dislike orcs

because there was once battles orcs.

 

Sword:Angelic sword

Damage:10-36

Weight:12.0 pounds

Type:Unique,very rare

Description:An enchanted,holy sword used once

by a Paladin leader.It has holiness on its blade

and gets 10+ damage against demons and undead.

 

Shield:Tower shield

Defense:10-12+1 damage

Weight:15.0 pounds

 

Armor:Plate legs

Defense:11-14

Weight:22.0 pounds

 

Character class:Necromancer

Necromancer has powers to call undead from

graves and can cast undead like magic like

an bone shield that protects from ranged.

 

Magic type:Necromancer spells

examples:level 1 rise skeleton lvl 1

creates an skeleton or 2 to fight on your side

 

yeah there they are,my first list.

Make this kinds of ideas,single one or multiple

[Lilith]

Orcs? ORCS? How many times were you dropped on your head as a child, and from what height? The whole point of the Avernum series is that it tries not to be a stereotypical fantasy setting! Jeff Vogel has said that the one golden rule he follows when designing his fantasy settings is "no elves" -- well, guess what, Einstein? That applies to orcs too!

 

Also, this thread belongs in General, not Tech Support.

 

You've made a stupid post in the wrong forum and compounded your crime by double-posting. I'd call you a halfwit, but that would be overly generous.

[Shadow47]

Fine, what i can know about spiderweb because im not from there??then what youre waiting??Ask can this be locked!

[Wise Man]

Orcs are for Warcraft. Sliths, Nephils and Vahnatai are good enough...

[*i]

I fail to see how this is a Tech Support topic...off to Avernum IV I think...

[ShadeOfWar]

Quote:

Originally written by Shadow47:
Fine, what i can know about spiderweb because im not from there??

Think before you type, TBYT... I believe Thuryl said Jeff publicly stated he did not wish to be stereotypical and include elves. Now for anyone familiar with LotR, that would mean orcs as well, by extension...
So that's how you can know.

Quote:

Originally written by Shadow47:
Allright heres few ideas...

Race:Orc
Orcs are good with strength and endurance.... Mages and priests are more
defensive than offensive... dislike orcs
because there was once battles orcs.

Sword:Angelic sword
...
It has holiness on its blade
and gets 10+ damage against demons and undead.

Shield:Tower shield...

Character class:Necromancer
Necromancer has powers to call undead from
graves and can cast undead like magic like
an bone shield that protects from ranged...

Make this kinds of ideas,single one or multiple...

The Necromancer I think unlikely since in Avernum the PCs apparently tend to only have one path, and that valorous and noble. It would take a lot of work to accommodate a Necromancer PC in an Avernum game...

Anyway, to me, this sort of thing reeks of Diablo II and all its hapless descendants; cutting-edge graphics, dazzling SFX, dynamic camera control and astounding zoom, and a non-existent story. The reason for playing Spiderweb games is that this has not yet happened to them, and fortunately cannot until their method of sale. They wouldn't have the sorry excuse of good looks to conceal the utter pointlessness of games built on that basis, so...

Hope that puts it in perspective, pal. Be seeing you.

[Slawbug]

Shadow47 = Ed.

[Alorael at Large]

Despite some superficial resemblance, apparently not.

 

—Alorael, who has a suggestion (or several). A4's combat with height once again included, a superior plot, and new areas to explore. Oh, and free kittens!

[Mister Fox]

Longsword/Broadsword(whatever is the main one-hander in the next game): Phantom Blade

Damage: 40-40, cannot be parried and ignores enemy armor

Weight: 0

Rarity: Very rare, almost unique but not quite

Description: An extremely cold, ethereal, blue sword that constantly emits a soft glow. This completely weightless sword can damage a foe through shields or heavy armor. Because of its weightlessness and the extreme cold surrounding it, the Phantom Blade can be difficult to use.

-30% Accuracy

2-12 bonus ice damage on hit

Acts as an inexhaustable, but dim light source if light is needed in A5

[Wise Man]

IMHO, I think the reload system with the batons in the GF series was quite cool. So maybe in A5 you can have ammo again, and you can carry as many arrows as you like. However, you can only carry a certain amount in your current quiver, and you have to either reload when it runs out, or manually reload whenever you feel like it. Then again, not having ammo in A4 was part of what made archery on par with everything else... =\

[KnowledgeBrew]

I want to see more stat manipulation to try to get your stats as high as possible and get those special skills. So more trainers, etc. Find some way of making Arcane Lore good past 15 total per party and parry worth getting above 10.

[Maimonides]

Quote:

Originally written by Mister Fox:
Longsword/Broadsword(whatever is the main one-hander in the next game): Phantom Blade
Damage: 40-40, cannot be parried and ignores enemy armor
Weight: 0
Rarity: Very rare, almost unique but not quite
Description: An extremely cold, ethereal, blue sword that constantly emits a soft glow. This completely weightless sword can damage a foe through shields or heavy armor. Because of its weightlessness and the extreme cold surrounding it, the Phantom Blade can be difficult to use.
-30% Accuracy
2-12 bonus ice damage on hit
Acts as an inexhaustable, but dim light source if light is needed in A5

This is not possible to implement in Avernum without serious modification.

[wz. As]

Quote:

Originally written by Vlishnu:
Shadow47 = Ed.

I'd thought so too, given member number and time intervals between posting. Apparently Shadow47 is still around though.

[Grain of Salt]

I thought the mods do an account ban first, then an IP ban if the person comes back under a different account. I could be wrong, though. But the member numbers are awfully suspicious.

[Dikiyoba]

Shadow47 registered before Ed did, though.

 

Shadow47 != Ed

It's possible that Shadow47 = Ed - Contrition, but it's not really worth worrying about yet.

 

Dikiyoba.

[Alorael at Large]

All things are possible, but there's really not even strong circumstantial evidence for Shadow47 = Ed.

 

—Alorael, who can't wrap his mind around not quite unique. Unique is a property that can be either true or false. There are no degrees of uniqueness.

[Mortimer]

Rather than new ingame stuff I'd prefer something like less jerky interface (I found it jerky anyway, but maybe I'm not used to it).

 

A 'camera' follow option would be nice for example, rather than having to move to the edge of the screen or manually scrolling.

 

I wouldn't mind if the size of the graphics where reduced ... say, half way between A1/2/3's and A4's size (A4, though large and detailed, feels small and clostrophbic).

 

Other than that a good plot, some fun quests and dungeons to explore... and she'll be right I say.

[Xenodave]

A IV is a little jerky on my computer (a three year old Mac running 10.4) too. It would be nice if that was fixed.

 

I'd like there to be ways to bulk up on EXP without having to go the the next part of the game, if a player wanted.

 

I really like the side quests and the quest boards in each town. I like the monsters that you fight. It would be cool to see a list of all the kinds of monsters in A IV and their subtypes online.

[Dintiradan]

Probably won't ever happen, but I hope A5 addresses the fighter/mage tactical inbalance that plagues most CRPGs. By this I refer to the way mages can choose between a host of spells in combat, while fighters and archers are limited to target choosing. As much as I would like to see the spell base extended to the size that the Exile fans rave about, I think the non-magic users need more work first. Too much of the fighter's stats are invisible in gameplay.

 

What I'd like to see is a continuation of the special skills like Riposte, Quick Attack, and Parry. Examples could be skills such as Mobility, which would decrease the chance of an enemy slowing a PC down; Opportunist, which would let a fighter have the chance of making attacks of opportunity as they did in A1-BoA; or Teamwork, which would allow a fighter to get a synergy bonus to attack if another PC is nearby with a similarly high score in the skill (anyone care to guess what the inspiration is for these ideas? ).

 

Personally, I'd like to make things even more complex and include things like the ability to make called shots (a chance of reducing an enemy's attack, or speed, etc.). However, this would probably make the game to difficult for the casual player.

 

Anyway, here's hoping that JV did good encapsulation in the A4 code so that most of these ideas have a chance at being easily implemented...

 

--------------------

IF I EVER BECOME AN EVIL OVERLORD:

I will never place the key to a cell just out of a prisoner's reach.

[GremlinJoe]

You know what I really miss? Being able to set items down on tables and other such place. Also, the ability to carelessly hurl fireballs around without a target in mind.

 

I mean, those were really great features. Man Exile 3 was a great game.

 

Edit: I'd also like another editor like E3's where you can go through munus of all the game items. That was the greatest. Oh I really hope Jeff puts those things back in.

[Fort]

Have you played Avernum 4? The game brings back area-of-effect spells and you can put items into containers now. Those features are basically back, though they are implemented differently.

[GremlinJoe]

I was traumatized nonethelesss that it wasn't so much like in Exile 3.

[Vicheron]

I think that fighters should be able to do more. Mages and Priests have always had a large variety of spells to cast but fighters only have two options, bash or shoot. It would be nice if fighters could learn some techniques like blind enemy or shield friend.

[avv]

MAN! I love suggestion threads. Avernum V should have it's own forum IMO.

Let's start.

 

Quote:

Hmmmm, I think a good idea would be where your players have an age

No! I'm sure that most people wan't to explore the game universe as much as possible and don't want their characters to suddenly die at ageing.

 

Quote:

Race:Orc

The Avernum world is unique. It should not be spoiled with mass-fantasy races.

 

About specific items: I'm not sure if we should invent a magical items. It should be Jeff's job. It's not cool to know already what secret magical items there are in the game. They must be surprises.

 

Quote:

IMHO, I think the reload system with the batons in the GF series was quite cool. So maybe in A5 you can have ammo again, and you can carry as many arrows as you like. However, you can only carry a certain amount in your current quiver, and you have to either reload when it runs out, or manually reload whenever you feel like it.

Yeah. Give back the arrows. Then there is more options wich to choose. Though carrying hundreds of arrows with you isn't very realistic. That quiver idea is good, IMO.

 

Quote:

I think that fighters should be able to do more. Mages and Priests have always had a large variety of spells to cast but fighters only have two options, bash or shoot. It would be nice if fighters could learn some techniques like blind enemy or shield friend.

Yeah! In A4 the fighters were able to lower the enemy's aps by hitting them hard. That was a good invention. They should get more things like that. Parry and riposte were cool. But what about disarm? Or ability to strike enemy to ground?

 

Now here's some thoughts of mine:

Bring back the bashing weapons.

 

Also potion making should be brought back. But potions should be more effective. It's not very realistic that you carry around dozens of healing potions.

 

Separate place for bracers and gauntlets. In A4 you couldn't have gloves if you had bracers. It doesn't make sense!

 

Looks. The character's looks should relay on what he is wearing. If he has helmet, you should be able to see him wearing helmet. If he has greatsword, he should have such in his hands. This means lots of work with graphics. But it looks so stupid that halberd looks like spear and greatsword looks like normal sword. A4 didn't even have shields!

And no more monsters that look like the player's characters with differend colours.

 

EDIT:

 

Bigger and more original enemies. All the A4's enemies were damn small and not so spectacular. Drake was smaller than a normal man! That was an outrage!

If there is an ogre with specific model, the "ogre badass" must not be only the same model with differend colour for Erika's sake!

Making differend graphics is hard and time consuming work, but I appreciate a work that is done well, even if it takes more time.

 

I remember the pleasant surprise when I encountered that HUGE alien slime in A3. I really didn't expect anything like that.

[Meeshka]

Was it only in Exile series, when during an encouter your enemies started to flee when heavily outnumbered? I can't remember such thing in Avernum series except for casting terror. I think I miss the feeling of chasing the prey from Exile.

[Alorael at Large]

I've never had enemies run in Exile. Outdoor wandering encounters disappear without a fight if your level is high enough (like high Cave/Nature Lore in Avernum) but you can never shout boo and watch your foes panic.

 

—Alorael, who doesn't understand how one could wear bracers and gauntlets. Unless gloves and bracers get one slot each and gauntlets fill both, which would be a pain, it's not really worthwhile. And there aren't any bracers in Avernum anyway. Changing sprites for equipment are simply too expensive to happen.

[Grain of Salt]

And Jeff is going to keep using color shifts unless he dethrones EA. Graphics are expensive.

[Dintiradan]

I don't know about Exile, but enemies did run away from you in some of the Avernums; BoA and A4, at the least.

 

Most of the time they ran away when severly wounded, or because they were scripted to. In BoA (and presumably in A4), there's the ability to manipulate a creature's 'courage' (change of running away). So it's possible to create a creature script which periodically checks the number of friendly and unfriendly creatures nearby, and alters its courage accordingly.

 

--------------------

IF I EVER BECOME AN EVIL OVERLORD:

Before appointing someone as my trusted lieutenant, I will conduct a thorough background investigation and security clearance.

[Mortimer]

in A2 once you are down to 1 or 2 weak enemies they tended to run.

[Slawbug]

Didn't Exile have a Fear spell? And some kind of Morale stat?

[*i]

Yup.

[Archmagus Micael]

The Exile Trilogy had a spell for just about everything. I think everyone misses the old spells, but since Avernum's combat is so much easier, there's no need to make the enemies run away...

[Meeshka]

Quote:

Originally written by Nigh For Dinner:
I've never had enemies run in Exile. Outdoor wandering encounters disappear without a fight if your level is high enough (like high Cave/Nature Lore in Avernum) but you can never shout boo and watch your foes panic.

That's weird. Because I'm pretty sure they did run. The question is do they run in Exile 2 and 3, since I remember for sure only the Escape from the Pit for that option. When you fight some brigands with evil priests e.g., when all Archers,Melee fighters are dead it is 100% the priest is moving to the far-from-your-party end to leave. And he does so unless you catch up with him and kill him.

Quote:

Originally written by Archmagus Micael:
The Exile Trilogy had a spell for just about everything. I think everyone misses the old spells, but since Avernum's combat is so much easier, there's no need to make the enemies run away...

Eventually the retreat is a good option for any fight, which shows some sort of intellect for your enemies. I didn't see fighting engine for A4, is there a possibility to hide beyond an obstackle (not a wall, but a stone for example), aka sit down move?
I would like to see Rentar retreat in final fight in A3, making another possible storyline for A4 :c)))

[Lilith]

Quote:

Originally written by Ford Prefect:
That's weird. Because I'm pretty sure they did run. The question is do they run in Exile 2 and 3, since I remember for sure only the Escape from the Pit for that option. When you fight some brigands with evil priests e.g., when all Archers,Melee fighters are dead it is 100% the priest is moving to the far-from-your-party end to leave. And he does so unless you catch up with him and kill him.

I've seen this behaviour too, in games as recent as BoE. Spellcasters actively move away from the party during combat, and I'm pretty sure they occasionally escape from outdoor fights entirely.

[Randomizer]

The earlier engines were alot better in getting the monsters out of there when the going got tough. In A4 the monsters ran up to get whacked and only ran away when they were almost dead. My favorite was to acid spray a monster so it ran up and died at my feet. It saved time in getting their treasure.

 

In A1, the monsters used to pick up items that appeared when another monster died and if useful they used it. So there would be in the Nephilim castle west of Formello a goblin would pick up a healing potion for it action and use it in the next round if you didn't kill it.

[Meeshka]

So? This is just a spam post to up the thread for more ideas. Huh?

By the way, does anybody need them at all?

 

--------------------------

Voices tell me I shouldn't have posted such questions without having a good idea to suggest. Still I tell them, I did already a little. I think.

[Dikiyoba]

So that post is meant to bump the thread up again? Jeff doesn't take any player ideas, so these threads are just a place for player discussion. And when players run out of things to discuss, it might be better just to let the thread die.

 

Dikiyoba is a little late now, but Dikiyoba seems to recall NPCs grabbing and using items in A2, but only very rarely.

[Meeshka]

Quote:

Originally by Dikiyoba:
And when players run out of things to discuss, it might be better just to let the thread die.

I prefer to disagree to this statement. It is never better. But that's my philosophy.
No new ideas for today, but may be tomorrow. May be we shall make a schedule, when every player on Spiderweb Boards shall put in an idea?

------------------------------------
Voices continue telling me it is time to shut up. Also one voice is asking since when do I have "my philosophy"?

[Snoflake]

It would be cool if in AVN5 you could duel wield like in Exile. And there should be way more items in AVN5. Also the characters movement is wierd b/c they just stand there and magically teleport to the nearest square while moveing.

 

AVN5 should have more actions for characters like heal yourself, or mounts.

Also, Spiderwebsoftware should combine the Genefore engine and the Avernum engine even MORE

Example: When you move around in the game, you actually MOVE. (like in Geneforge)

Also when u wear armor or weapons, you should see them on the characteres.

And you should be able to summon kobolds and Basilisks (at high levels)

 

PS: whats the level cap for avernum 4???

[emulrooney]

Quote:

Originally written by Snoflake:
It would be cool if in AVN5 you could duel wield like in Exile. And there should be way more items in AVN5. Also the characters movement is wierd b/c they just stand there and magically teleport to the nearest square while moveing.

AVN5 should have more actions for characters like heal yourself, or mounts.
Also, Spiderwebsoftware should combine the Genefore engine and the Avernum engine even MORE
Example: When you move around in the game, you actually MOVE. (like in Geneforge)
Also when u wear armor or weapons, you should see them on the characteres.
And you should be able to summon kobolds and Basilisks (at high levels)

PS: whats the level cap for avernum 4???

You don't need walking animations, nor do you need a paper doll engine. They look nice, but I'd be more interested in interesting gameplay.

I don't see the need for mounts...especially with the way the world is set up now, with no division between towns and outdoor sections.

What I'd like to see is some more interesting combat options for melee warriors- I liked the way you could slow enemies running past you, but it would be nice if they could get a few more options- perhaps using spear should allow you to hit someone two squares away, or a larger weapon could hit them back a square.

[Green Apple]

Hello People!

I just want to know if anyone else didn't like A4 because it was so much like Geneforge. There is probably a reason behind this, but the reason I haven't played A4 in ages is that I don't like the gameplay style. I wish A5 would use the old Avernum modes instead of looking like Geneforge with Avernum plot.

 

So sorry- just ignore me, I don't know what has/n't been said.

[Kelandon]

Quote:

Originally written by Green Apple:
I just want to know if anyone else didn't like A4 because it was so much like Geneforge.

My response to you is the same as my response to this guy .

[Alorael at Large]

There's no hard level cap for A4, but I think the most experience you can practically get by killing everything that moves and doing every quest with the heftiest experience bonus traits would get you to somewhere around level 45.

 

[Edit: A slip of the old Freud, wot?]

 

—Alorael, who wouldn't worry about it. A4 is definitely not a game with a shortage of experience. The problem is the soft cap of diminishing returns.

[Dikiyoba]

Originally by Alorael:

 

Quote:

There's no hard level cap for A5...

That's good to know. So, when do the rest of us get to play it?

 

Dikiyoba.

[Valchrist]

Yes, exile 3 at least did have enemies who retreated when outnumbered in combat, and losing units. Or it mihgt have been ranged units trying to find a suitable range and running offscreen from your party as they were chased. It is just that I remember demons running offscreen, and empire archers ect.

 

I found the barrier spells of Exile very useful for getting items that were impossible to ever get any other way. I would put up a force barrier, and loot Fort Avernum. This is a n easy way to blind others to your actions, but you must have developed the spell to get accomplish that first. The sheer versatility of the spells in those games allowed you to do far more, such as planting quickfire in Sharamik, and closing the door as you retreated and left everyone to burn after stealing everything. And I think openness is what the Avernum series has over Exile, with far more quests, but less customization of weapon choices and strategies, which is dissapointing.

 

However, none of us would be here without Vogel's inspired ideas and hesitation to become too mainstream. It is why we love his games. His games, you see, which means if he let anyone's ideas in, it won't be anything random. Plus his living is made out of creating better ideas than we do. We don't have our own games, so what he decides to put in, we play. More spells is an asset, but we'll have to see what happens.

 

I would like to see tunnel battles and narrow bridge battles and wall battles to give a strategic and tactical feel. Quickfire from off a wall, like destroying was it Smog's den in A2? Creating ruins from cities. The decay of towns over time, like is already in the cities. These give us the sense of reality passing. Days might progress faster though? It seems to me that you can go through so fast none of the timed events really happen. I remember having to wait 18 days or so just to do the quest in A3 in the portal tower. The game can be beat in 30-40 days discounting the wait for the tower, if not faster if you try. Being rewarded for speed would be great, or faster passing time.

 

I'd like to see the party face a Geneforge style shaper/agent/guardian party, who has been transported through a shaper misshap though, and locked themselves in some vault the party must explore. imagine the tension of players in the know when they find a book describing how people called shapers appeared here after a mishap, and then must fight a guardian, a while later, the agen, and at teh end a shaper. Shaped swords ect. The technicalities arn't too difficult. stranger randomish events have occured. BOOM! I am a Vahnati. Come far below the earth and find me! You see?

 

Anyway, for my first post I don't want to act like some professional or in any way say my ideas are superior to the game product. My own two cents. I am sure I'll have more to say sometime, but for now, tell me what you think.

[Dikiyoba]

Originally by Valchrist:

 

Quote:

However, none of us would be here without Vogel's inspired ideas and hesitation to become too mainstream. It is why we love his games. His games, you see, which means if he let anyone's ideas in, it won't be anything random. Plus his living is made out of creating better ideas than we do. We don't have our own games, so what he decides to put in, we play. More spells is an asset, but we'll have to see what happens.

Dikiyoba agrees.

[Mister Fox]

An interesting side quest could be a temporal rift or something of the like that sends the party to an alternate dimension (possibly Exile, with its minute differences from Avernum) with old-school 2D graphics.