The Reverend

I really enjoyed playing Queen's Wish on my iPhone ... I could easily play for a few minutes here and there on the bus/train/while waiting for appointments, etc...  Does anyone know if Jeff is planning to port GF1:Mutagen to iPhone as well, or will the iOS port be just for iPads?

So the answer to OP is "certainly not"

I'm not arguing against that - humans are certainly the optimal choice for any character, regardless of specialty - you can't beat 8 extra traits (a better balance might be 3 extra traits for humans - one each at levels 10, 20, and 30). I'm just saying that the imbalance is maybe not quite as extreme as it might at first seem, since the 17th-24th best traits for a given character are not going to be as good as the first 16 you choose.

I guess my real point is that sliths and nephils are certainly quite playable, if not optimal, even on torment (although perhaps not as a singleton, I haven't tried that). I know from past threads about A:EFTP that RBD likes to play parties with a variety of character types and roles, so I wanted to be sure RBD wasn't discouraged from trying sliths and nephils, even if they are not the optimal choice.

Unfortunately, the +10% to damage is also less useful than it might first appear, since bonus damage is additive. At the start of the game it may actually be close to +10%, but by the end it will likely increase your character's actual damage by closer to 6-7%.

Doesn't same thing apply to other bonus damage, including bonus damage from the various traits that grant that?

Sliths and Nephils are not horrible choices if you are going to create a pole or missle user, but a human will be better. Remember though that it's not quite as ridculously unbalanced as it might first appear, since the extra traits you get will be less useful than the top 16 traits you'd select. But yes, it is rather unbalanced. Especially since magic is even more overpowered relative to non-magic users in A:CS than it was in A:EFTP, and sliths and nephils don't get any magic advantages.

I just saw this yesterday, but might participate if it reaches a critical mass (enough players to make it interesting).

I'd nominate this for a strategy central link, to make it easy to find.

I like giving party members specific roles. Feels more like a classic fantasy story than everybody being amazing at everything.

 

Right now I have.

 

1) Swordfighter tank.

 

2) Archer, with a little bit of pole weapons skill as a backup. Further nerfed in combat since he has most of the tool use and cave lore. That being said, archers are actually pretty fun to use. Landing two ranged shots a turn is pretty cool, plus the occasional curse, and the high dex means that enough attacks miss him that he makes a decent secondary tank.

 

3) Dedicated priest.

 

4) Dedicated mage.

 

There are only a few exceptions to their niche roles. I took 1 point in priest skills for the fighter and archer so they could minor heal and cure. The priest/mage both took sword skill to unlock hardiness and battle disciplines, but their strength is so low they can't actually use swords in combat. And of course, I'm buying as many skills for everybody as trainers will provide.

I'm doing something similar for my first A2:CS playthrough, except with a slith polefighter instead of a swordfighter, and nephil specializing in thrown weapons rather than archery (although he does just fine with a bow backup when he wants to conserve thrown ammo, due to high DEX). I'm playing on torment, and so far it's going fine.

In response to the original post: in general, I find that if you're playing with four characters, you really don't need to go with the absolute optimal, MIN-MAXED party, even on torment. Four characters gives you enough flexibility to have a bit of fun. You do still need to think carefully about stat allocations, to make sure each character is effective at their assigned role, but you don't need a 4 magic, or 1 tank+3 magic party.

Oh, and thanks for for the Anama party shout out, Triumph! I'm hoping to do one in A2:CS as my next playthrough.

Yes. As far as I can tell, Lethal Blow only affects melee attacks but all other critical hit bonuses seem to affect all attacks equally.

Have their been any experiments done to examine what Lethal Blow works for? I had always assumed that it impacted the critical hit percentage of at least melee/pole and bows/thrown (since it can be reached from either side of the weapons skill tree). I had guessed that it was also impacting the magic critical hit percentage, since that seems to be how most things work in these games - but I'm less confident of that.

despite its reception on the forums a4 also apparently sold like hotcakes would sell if hotcakes made you brilliantly intelligent and irresistibly attractive, so there's that

They don't? I want a refund on all those hotcakes I've been spending my hard-earned money on!!!

Well, that was an embarassing omission of longbows, thanks for correcting that, and for the more and accurate analysis.

My general conclusion still stands: thrown weapons offer better damage potential than bows (especially the rather under-powered heartstriker, ugh!), but you need to save the better ones for the difficult battles. Steel javelins will do still more damage than iron (205.625 vs 190 in your example), as will razordisks if the enemies are positioned right for cleaving. As long as you pay attention to which weapon you use in which fight, I don't think supply management will be too difficult, but I will update this if I discover differently as I work my way through the game.

Depending on your stats, though, it may in some cases make more sense to use a longbow rather than crude javelins as backup for the less difficult fights - particularly in the early game when you only have a few points in thrown weapons, and your other stats aren't high enough for the higher javelin damage multiplier to make as much of a difference. The only available long bows in the first two chapters appear to be crude longbows, though ...

It's true that there is not a big difference between the weaker and stronger thrown weapons... but isn't it a big enough difference that stronger bows will outdamage crude javelins by a bit, even if fine razordisks outdamage most of the stronger bows?

 

And then there's the Heartstriker...

Looking at the math, even the crude javelins, in the hands of a thrown specialist, can out-damage most of the top bows in the hands of a bow specialist.

The javelins do more average damage per level. Borrowing from your analysis in the balance updates thread:

2.00 - Dagger, Bow

2.50 - Bow of Dark Rot, Bow of Storms (50% chance to do 150% damage, chance of ancillary effects)

3.00 - Possessed Bow (50% chance to double damage)

...

3.13 - Javelin (50% chance to do 150% damage, chance of ancillary effects)

2.50 - Razordisk (50% chance to cleave at 1-4)

...

Counting cleaves as always available:

3.75 - Razordisk

If you look at the base levels in the scripts, you get:

Crude Javelin: 5

Iron Javelin: 9

Steel Javelin: 14

Razordisk: 10

Fine Razordisk: 15

Crude bow: 2

Cavewood bow: 5

Lemonwood bow: 8

Yew bow: 11

Ever-Rotting bow: 12

Bow of Storms: 13

Possessed bow (heartstriker): 8

So, if you take character with 30 points combined between dexterity and thrown, the crude javelin will do an average of 3.13 x (5 + 30) = 109.55 (not counting other bonuses, e.g., sharpshooter or nephil). If you instead allocate the thrown points to bows, the bow of storms will do less than even the worst javelin: 2.5 x (13 + 30) = 107.5.

The possessed/heartstriker bow will still do more than crude javelins, though: 3 * (8 + 30) = 114. But, on any fight that's difficult, you'll be using something better than crude javelins. Even just switching to iron javelins brings the damage to 122.07, beating heartstriker.

There are plenty of crude javelins and even over 300 iron javelins. The better weapons are still rare.

I'm currently working on a torment playthrough with a Nephil thrown weapon user (in addition to a slith pole fighter/tank, a human mage, and a human priest). So far, I've found no supply problems, and the thrown weapons do more damage than bows. I did equip the nephil with a backup bow (high DEX makes the bow effective enough even without points in bows), which I sometimes switch to in easy fights, just to make sure I have plenty of ammo - but I'm not even sure that is necessary. I do save the better thrown weapons for the harder fights, though. Evasion from DEX has helped defensively as well, even on torment.

I am still working through the play-through, but so far thrown weapon nephils seem viable and able to contribute to the party on torment. But I would never do more than one in the party, as I'm pretty sure that would start to hit supply issues.

Piercing crystals act as Dispel Barrier level 1

Need Dispel Barrier level 2 to get into some quest areas

So does this mean a no-mage party is not possible? Or can these areas be skipped and still beat the game?

I was hoping to continue my Anama saga from A:EFTP...

1. What is your age? (Be approximate, if you'd like) Late 30s.

2. What part of the world do you live in? In which part of the world were you born? What countries have you lived in? Born in the United States (mid-west), always lived in the United States (various regions), still live in the United States (west coast). May move to France at some point (wife's family lives there).

3. What is your native language? In what languages are you proficient? English, and enough French to get by.

4. Describe your ancestry. A mixed bag, but more German than anything else.

5. Describe your gender identity and sexual orientation. Hetero male.

6. Do you have any religious or spiritual beliefs? If so, describe them. In what religious tradition(s) were you raised, if any? Not really...

7. What is your relationship status? Do you have any children? Married with children (but I'm not Al Bundy)

8. Describe your social class. Have you always been in this class? Upper middle class.

9. Have you ever served in the military? If so, what division? No.

10. What is your occupation (or former occupation)? What is your highest level of education (and your degree, if applicable)? I work in Software. Highest education level is a PhD, which I just finished this year - finishing my thesis and starting a new job is my excuse for my lack of posting on these boards recently.

"The mechanics is a big part of the gameplay experience, so it doesn't feel at all like the exact same game "

 

The same story, maps, and basic idea.. yet it doesn't feel at ALL like the same game to you? I guess we look at things way differently then.

You put the emphasis on the wrong part of my quote. I meant it as It doesn't feel at all like the EXACT same game. Similar, yes, of course, due to storylines, maps, etc. My objection was to saying it felt like the exact same game. The game play experience, for me, was different enough that it felt like a different (and better), but closely related game.

The story and the maps are the same you say. Graphics being different mean nothing to me. I don't play these game for graphics, obviously. Different game mechanics, in the exact same game... yeah, there are just way too many NEW games out there for me to waste time retreading on old territory.

The mechanics is a big part of the gameplay experience, so it doesn't feel at all like the exact same game to me. I played Exile 1 a couple years after it came out, Avernum 1 right after it came out, and A:EFTP right away as well - and I enjoyed all three. Yes, I knew the basic story before playing the remakes, but in the (many) years between releases, most of the details had faded into the mists of old memories...

So, I for one really enjoy Jeff's remakes (and the new bits he adds are fun to discover as well). But, obviously, everyone is entitled to their own opinion of games ... If you don't like the remakes, there's always Avadon. Or all the new games you mention (personally, I find very few of those new games to be anywhere near as entertaining as Jeff's, though).

How will you grab somebody elses? All deposited sanity is devoured by the fluffy turtles.

All the more reason to keep it within reach, I suppose. I'm trying to maintain the bits and pieces that my two little girls haven't already devoured...

I actually keep mine tucked away in my back pocket rather than leaving it at the door - I always worry that if I leave it at the door, I might get mixed up and grab somebody else's by mistake ...

You can actually do quite a bit more variety than just the ideal builds (pumping a single primary attack stat), and still beat the game - even on torment. For example, check out RBD's play-through, where he beat the game on torment with a party where no character had more than half their points in any of the primary stats (str/int/dext/end):

http://spiderwebforu...torious-heroes/

Just got an email from YouTube that spiderwebsoftware1 posted a new trailer for A2:CS. I don't see it mentioned on the forums yet, so I thought I'd point y'all to it. My apologies if this was already posted, and I just didn't see it:

I recently finished the second season of Orange is the New Black; it's such a great show!

+100.

I've also been enjoying The Leftovers on HBO

Personally, I've been too busy to post much (or at all) the past year, between finishing grad school, starting a new job, and kids growing up and having more activities ... but I still skim the boards every week or so, and once A2:CS comes out, I'm sure I'll start posting more regularly. I imagine plenty of others who've been eagerly awaiting it will start to show up more regularly as well.

So check your neck and make sure you don't have one and check your arms to make sure you don't get bat wings either. They suck too.

Hmm, let me see.

Neck ... check.

Left arm ... check.

Right arm ... check.

Bats wings ... oh crud, what happened to my bat wings?! Now how am I going to fly out of my cave every night??

You've inspired my characters to do similar things in Avadon 2. My blademaster now collects forge items and iron, my shamans are of course big on potted plants, and I haven't yet decided what my sorceress should collect...

Since there's apparently a romance option in Avadon 2 (I've only just started due to real-life commitments), my main character has been collecting bottles of wine for romantic dinners.

I still can't believe you can buy any decent game for under $30 ... Back when I was a kid such things were unheard of ...

I'm happy to pay $20 for a Spiderweb game. Considering I easily spend between 50 and 100 hours on them (and sometimes more, depending on how many playthroughs I do), it's a great entertainment bargain.