Nelis

Pie > arguments?

Quote: If you can watch a featherless, beak-less, wretch of a bird struggle helplessly for its life as someone squeezes its brains through its eye-sockets, and still feel comfortable eating it, then go ahead, but please don't pretend like it isn't common practice. Hmm. Considering the pretty weak bonestructure of birds the quick squeezing out of brain matter might actually be a rather humane method of killing them. Don't confuse your disgust with the inside of bodies with a morally or physiologically important fact. Consider this, how would you rather die, pain wise. In a gas chamber, by lethal injection, or by an anvil dropping on your head from 10 stories up? X should work in a slaughter house

Originally Posted By: Lilith you are the worst libertarian except for all the others Hey. Maybe you could read Otsuka, or Peter Valentyn, or Hillel Steiner on leftish libertarianism before you make such bold statements. Then again, I understand where you're coming from. Libertarianism as a theory has often been abused to justify anarcho-capitalist politics.

Hmmmm. I have some problems with PETA and like organizations as well, in that I believe they're going a little overboard. Animals in the care of people should not be mistreated, but in my experience, they're asking for a little more. Now, this is not just about PETA, but I'll cite two things about the entire animal protection movement that ticked me off recently. 1. I took my dog to the vet, because I needed a declaration of health to take him abroad. There were about ten people with dogs in the waiting room, and he's a fighter, so I left him outside. He's used to this. He spends winter outside. He wants to be outside. He whines inside, can't take the heat and boredom. Of course, I got the declaration. Healthiest dog the vet saw in some time he said. Not overweight However, while waiting, this woman comes in with her tiny, fat, inbred/overbred Paris Hilton like abomination and starts asking who left his poor dog outside in the cold. He was all barking at her. I told her he's fine and probably wasn't barking at her but at her ridiculous dog that stared at him or otherwise failed to live up to doggy etiquette. Point is, people in the west/developed world are soft and spoiled, and now apply these norms about comfort to animals as well. However, they are complete hypocrites, as my next example will show. 2. China is now planning to forbid the eating of dogs and cats. Of course, it is still okay to eat pigs, cows, chickens, snails, fish and what have you not. They're not terribly concerned about the use of endangered (as in opposed to cats and dogs) species in traditional medicine either. Instead, they're just reacting to demands based on western norms, that make this sneaky distinction between different kinds of animals. There's wild ones, and pets, and then there's production animals. And somehow, they're different. But, of course, the distinction is completely contingent and historical. Dogs used to be work/hunt/guard animals. Now that most people keep them for company they're not anymore. I got fined for having my dog pull a cart of firewood. I asked 'what if he was a horse?'. No problem then. Makes sense, right? He actually wants to pull the cart. He starts making trouble if I don't allow him to. Now, the way the Chinese government rationalizes their decision is by pointing out that cats and dogs are traditionally butchered in a cruel way. Which is true. So, why don't they just forbid that particular practice of butchering? That's just my two cents on the topic. And btw, I must add that I'm more then a little shocked when I hear of people spending hundreds of euros/dollars on psychology or surgery for their pets. I mean, having a broken leg set right is one thing. You could probably do this yourself. But having a five hour operation to have a tumor removed? While actual people in this world are dying of stupid things like malaria and intestinal parasites? That seems completely selfish to me. When a pet is very sick and in pain, you put him down. The respectful thing is to do this yourself, you can usually ask the vet to give the lethal injection yourself. Preferably in a trusted environment and outside.