Slawbug

The combat skills are really not a big deal -- you only save a few points over those in classes that actually care about combat. And the trainer isn't available until halfway through the game. So they are only worth fussing over if you are playing on Torment and really want to optimize every last point. You will however want to hold off training Spellcraft, as a Spellcraft trainer shows up very early. The Warrior and Shock Trooper are universally acknowledged to be sub-optimal classes... though the difference is not huge. The Lifecrafter is best with creations due to higher essence and will have the most raw offensive power. The Servile is the best fighter and potentially the most versatile and survivable. The Infiltrator is extremely similar to the Servile -- slightly less survivable, but with slightly more essence -- with most seeming to feel the Servile and Lifecrafter are preferable. As far as sects go, you are somewhat better off if you pick one side and stick with it. The Shapers have somewhat better rewards, though there are exceptions. The link in my sig and in the forum header will have more detailed information about that. Otherwise, there aren't any major surprises / realizations that you should have done X 20 hours of playing ago.

The missile attack used by Shock Tralls stuns, as do Stun Wands, Submission Batons, the Stunning Blade, and the melee attacks of Glaahks and Gazers.

This new chart looks very nice too. I still think having a single dot for each sect is an extremely poor way to represent the Awakened and the Rebellion. Also, there is no way the Shapers are as pro-shaping power as the Takers are. The Takers aligned with Trajkov, and were the origin of the Rebellion and its self-shaping Drakons. Maybe one dot is too little for the Shapers, but the strong Loyalist Shaper perspective is about where the Obeyers are, perhaps slightly less restrictive and slightly further from creation rights. Evaluating both spectra, the sects should probably go in an order something like this (IMHO): Shaping power (most to least restrictive): * Trakovites -- eliminate entirely * Obeyers (Rydell) -- restrict very strictly * Loyalists (Aodare) -- restrict very strictly * Shapers (Alwan) -- restrict strictly (halfway point) * Shapers (Zakary) -- restrict when necessary * Awakened (Ellhrah) -- restrict when necessary * Awakened (Tuldaric) -- unleash when necessary * Takers (Gnorrel) -- unleash when useful * Trajkov -- unleash with little regard for the world * Rebels (Greta, Litalia) -- unleash with little regard for the world * Barzites (Barzahl) -- unleash with little regard for the world * Rebels (Akhari Blaze) -- unleash with NO regard for the world Creation rights (least to most supportive): * Barzites (Barzahl) -- Shapers dominate creations with cruelty * Loyalists (Aodare) -- Shapers dominate creations * Shapers (Agatha) -- Shapers dominate creations * Shapers (Diwaniya) -- Shapers dominate and support creations * Obeyers (Rydell) -- Shapers dominate and support creations (halfway point) * Trakovites -- Peace and equality * Awakened (Ellhrah) -- Peace and equality * Trajkov -- Equality * Takers (Gnorrel) -- Freedom at any cost * Rebels (Greta, Litalia) -- Freedom at any cost, destroy Shapers * Rebels (Akhari Blaze) -- Drakons dominate (and support?) other creations, destroy Shapers I think the easiest way to handle this is to recognize creation rights as a continuum that is not a simple gradient between two extremes. Thus, Shaper domination, equality, creation power, and Drakon domination of everyone else are all different points.

The Stunning Blade doesn't have a better chance of stunning. It *actually* adds several levels of stunning directly. This is significant because unlike G1-3, where every attack had a good chance of stunning if it did a lot of damage, stunning is rare.

I agree with Alorael about thrown weapons and uniqueness. Makes me think of Angband and the sad lack of artifact throwing knives. (Though I suppose you can turn Grond into a throwing weapon.) I actually have a hard time thinking of ANY turn-based RPG in which thrown weapons are as useful or as powerful as melee weapons.

Interesting graphic. There are definitely two spectra involved. I think you could further generalize from "self-shaping" to "regulation of shaping." This would add some precision to the spectrum, as the Trakovites are stricter in that regard than the Obeyers, etc. It would be interesting, and more telling I think, to do this exercise with particular leaders rather than whole sects. Some of the sects aren't well represented by a single dot. Consider the Awakened. In G1, Ellhrah is horrified if you use the Geneforge. Obviously, Tuldaric is more liberal with shaping power. Similarly, the Rebellion: the humanoid rebellion supports creation rights and (G4 implies) has at least a modicum of concern for preserving the world (i.e., restricting shaping power at least slightly). The drakon rebellion doesn't do either of these things as much. Edit: I suppose I would be somewhere around the Trakovites.

Except that the chance of Quick Action getting an extra strike in has nothing whatsoever to do with the enemy's level. Whereas the chance of Assassination working was based directly on the enemy's level. Also, certain secondary weapon effects (but not all of them) can be activated on both hits. (Disclaimer: I tested this in G3, but haven't noticed it to be different in G4.) Edit: Maybe "strategically analagous" would be a better way of putting it.

I'm still confused as to why you are making Drayks with a Servile. The combat bonuses a Servile gets are not very useful if you are running strong creations, so you are better off with a Lifecrafter (or an Infiltrator).

G3 certainly wasn't a "big" improvement, though there were some small improvements made. The bigness of G2's improvement is debatable as well.

Actually, I am beginning to think that Alorael's daily name changes are the waste product of the supercharged Angband name generator he's been working on all these years. The PDN changes when he is forced to reroll.

I don't remember, but did Pacifist prevent summoning spells? If not, that's an obvious out. Granted, Garzahd would be pretty tough to deal with with summons, even with Simulacrum and a huge pile of energy potions.

Quote: Originally written by Emperor Tullegolar: Honeycomb: I think the Avernum 5 honeycomb was the most accurate representation of a cave in the whole series. In real life, caves aren't all on the same plane like Avernum is, they go up and down and all around and whatnot. No -- the most accurate representation of caves was back in Exile and Exile II, when the combination of frequent written descriptions with undetailed gaphics meant you had to use your imagination. Anyway, like Thuryl and Randomizer, I grew up on those old school dungeon crawlers, but I never liked that element of them. Regular 2-D mazes are one thing, but including lots of ups and downs just turns navigation into a headache without actually making it any more interesting. It's just taxing. I mean, who truly enjoyed the 32 x 32 x 10 labyrinths of the old Wizardry games?

The chitrach icon was, thank god, replaced with a new one someone on the boards designed in the later (I want to say 1.02, but I think I'm making that number up) releases of A4. Chitrachs were bad enough without looking like clawbugs. Hallelujah to a number of Jeff's comments, especially the one about no pylons. And I agree with Alorael about the seamless world. If it's a new area, it wouldn't be so bad; the caves of Exile simply weren't designed for those kind of maps and don't lend themselves to them well. To pick one example from the games, Upper Exile would work okay, I think.

Better yet, play Nethergate.

TM isn't the only one not here. For a very long time before G4, the only GF posters whose PDNs I could easily recognize were myself, Delicious Vlish, and Student of Trinity.

I guess the Darkside Loyalists would have been better than Rentar II, but I don't find them a very compelling villain either. The one upside would be the potential to resurrect the Scimitar.

There is one feature that the GF/Avernum 4 save game dialog desperately needs. A way to delete more than one character of the save description at a time. Or, at a bare minimum, the ability to hold down delete instead of having to press it once discretely for each character.

No, only the E2 heroes. Here's the mention -- it's Solberg: "True enough. I was one of the first wizards here. I fought in the first war against Grah-Hoth. I helped build the Tower of Magi. I had the honor of assisting the adventurers who destroyed Grah-Hoth once and for all." "Then I had the further honor of assisting the adventurers who contacted the vahnatai and helped us win the war against the Empire. I have had a hard life in Avernum, but at least it was full of achievement." "The first group? Nobody knows. They disappeared. Some think that they eventually found an escape route to the surface, though I have my doubts." "The second group? They are in Avernum still, helping repair the damage from the Avernum war and working to build relations with the vahnatai."

In-game, you either get stuck in the castle and get killed by a swarm of guards (if you didn't get all five brooches) or Erika teleports you to safety. I don't think anything is said for sure in later games (beyond the fact that they disappeared), though it is implied that the heroes went up to the surface -- which makes sense, given that they successfully found and navigated the last remaining exit from the caves.

The biggest problem with starting over is that, due to the nature of Shaping, it would be difficult to completely eliminate Shaping power. I mean, look at what happened in G1. How do you purge not just an island, but the entire world of canisters, textbooks, geneforge components, and so on...

No, it doesn't. Presumably you joined the Anama, so you have a stockpile of 128 Piercing Crystals. Right?

Whoops, I was thinking about spellbooks and canisters counting towards trainer limits in G1 and G2. I'm pretty sure trainer limits are based off the same hidden variable as skill cost, though. I may be remembering the result wrong, but I know I tested putting points into Luck to see if it affected the cost at all.

I know scripted events and canisters counted towards cost in G1 and (I think) G2, but I thought that was no longer the case. Actually, canisters I'm not sure about since there are so few stat-boosting ones in G4, but I seem to recall the Dillame Luck boost not moving the skill cost at all. Trainers, though -- the people you can buy up to skill 2 in a skill from with money -- do increase the cost.

The problem you experienced with the cave slimes was not a revival problem, it was a monster problem. Those cave slimes SUCKED. They were boring, but also numerous and somewhat difficult. At least there weren't map twenty sections of them like with the chitrachs, but they were definitely not one of the highlights of A4. Every time I hit one and it spawned multiple new slimes, I sighed. And here, here about that stupid portal. I don't think I would have minded clicking twice by itself, but it was click, load, click, load -- forcing me to alternate paying attention and waiting in a very irritating pattern.

Some of the Sholai already look disturbingly like they are wearing TNG-era uniforms.