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variableirony

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  1. Thanks for the input everybody. I am going to go ahead and get something started (in fact I already have), so when the game does launch at least some of the basics will be out of the way. Here's what I am doing: I want to use a hosted wiki; I want my effort to go towards finding and organizing information, not on the minutiae of hosting a wiki. My favorite game wiki site is gamepedia; however, it appears that they only allow people directly associated with the game (developers, publishers, etc) to create wikis. My next favorite site is fandom; there are several good wikis there for other video game series, such as Fallout and Borderlands. So I have created a (so far empty) wiki there for Queen's Wish. I have also created wikis for Avernum 5 and Avernum 6, also on FANDOM. I am currently creating some entries in the Avernum 5 wiki, since that's the game I am most recently familiar with, and using them to create templates and layouts, and hopefully some how-tos. Once I have done a couple of pages in each major category, I am going to take those templates and import them into the Avernum 6 wiki. Then I will start Avernum 6, and start filling out that wiki as I play. This should give me an idea of how I want to go about it. Once Queen's Wish is released, I will import whatever I think is useful from the Avernum 6 wiki to the Queen's Wish wiki, at which point I expect to delete the Avernum 5 and 6 wikis. As has been previously mentioned, a fragment of a wiki is worse than no wiki at all. I will start playing Queen's Wish and filling out the wiki as I play. The templates will presumably have to be adjusted somewhat for the new engine, and maybe some new categories added. If basic things like item and ability names can be extracted from the data files as they can with A5/6, I may at least partially automate the process of creating the initial stubs for these things. When I feel like there is some useful information and a basic structure in place that others can follow, I will start a new thread in this forum, linking to the wiki and inviting others to contribute to it. In the beginning, I think the wiki should be limited to "factual" information, i.e. things that don't need to be experimentally derived or debated. This forum is a better place for those conversations than a wiki. As conclusions are drawn about mechanics, and maybe strategy, I will ask for permission to migrate that information to the wiki. If anybody is interested in getting involved in any of that before the very end, I would welcome the collaboration. Otherwise, I'll see you when the game is launched
  2. Yeah I totally get that. Honestly I wasn't really expecting the current big contributors to sign up for a bunch of extra work. I thought there might be a few other people like me lurking on these forums: want to contribute something to the community; don't feel like they have the expertise (or quite frankly the patience) to produce the kind of analysis that others on these forums already do; see the potential value in a well-constructed wiki; and willing to put some time into finding and organizing information. Fair enough. My experience makes me quite wary of projects owned by a single person; there is just so much in life that can interfere and destroy the value of one person's effort. I will hold out hope that there are a few who "see it before they see it". But if it ultimately takes me getting it started on my own, I can do that.
  3. I'm still really confused as to where you are getting this from. Did I say anywhere that what the members of this forum are doing is wrong, or not valuable, or should be discontinued? I don't think I said anything like that; and if that is the impression I gave, I apologize for not choosing my words more carefully. What I have done, so far, to make the wiki a reality is start this thread. Why did I do that instead of just starting the wiki myself? Because it's not about a personal vanity project. I don't want or need to make all the decisions. I definitely cannot do it all myself. I am looking for people who see the same potential that I do to collaborate with. If literally no one but me sees the potential or is interested in working on it, there is no point in starting; it won't succeed. I'm sorry that my first post on the forum did not live up to your expectations. I have never felt like I had anything particularly valuable to contribute, compared to what other members of these forums have done. Especially since I have never played a Spiderweb game in the first year after it was released (maybe the first Nethergate? I don't remember for sure); anything that I would say has usually been said long before I think of it. Queen's Wish is the first time I expect to play a game at release. And I truly believe that a Queen's Wish wiki would be a valuable resource, and that it has the best chance of being successful if it is started early, has multiple maintainers, and is linked to these forums. That's why I chose to post now. I'll be honest, that one of the most prominent members of this forum has chosen to take my idea as a personal attack is pretty disappointing. But it doesn't change my mind. I am still looking for people who see value in a Queen's Wish wiki and are interested in contributing to it.
  4. Having searched the forums and seen the hostility with which previous wiki suggestions were met, I was afraid of a response like this. Nevertheless, it is disappointing to see. How else could I have made my case that would not have come off as complaining? As I said in my OP, the various Strategy Centrals represent significant effort by (mostly) a small number of people and have been invaluable. Even before information and advice started getting collected in Strategy Central, your Slartanalysis threads and Synergy and Randomizer's item threads (among many, many other useful threads) were extremely helpful. I'm not complaining about that; as I said, I am very thankful for all the time and effort put in. And I completely agree that the fact that the information gets compiled in the first place is the most important thing. I am well aware that maintaining a wiki would be even more work than posting here, and as you pointed out, is not guaranteed to succeed. I am not complaining that the small number of individuals who do most of the analysis here are not also putting in the effort to make a wiki. Far from it. I am offering to add my effort - and maybe rally the effort of others - in the hopes of achieving something even more valuable. Perhaps the amount of time I spent in my post describing what I see as the advantages of a wiki is why it felt like complaining? As I said, I have seen some less-than-positive responses to other wiki requests, and I was trying to preemptively respond. That was probably a mistake. But acknowledging that a wiki would have value doesn't have to mean denying the value of these forums, the information here, or the effort it has taken to create it. I certainly don't find Strategy Central inadequate. But perhaps "advertised" was the wrong word. Yes, I understand that Strategy Central is typically an aggregate of other already useful threads and resources. Maybe Strategy Central is not the right place for what I am looking for. But as you noted, "wikis have been attempted before and haven't taken off". My (unsubstantiated) belief is that one of the main reasons is that most of them have been individual passion projects that have not been linked to these forums, which are undeniably the home of the Spiderweb community. Wikis need participation and contribution to be successful. That's precisely why I am suggesting that the wiki be created before the game is even released, and that it be linked from these forums - so that people can find it and contribute to it. And - just to be perfectly clear - I don't see this as my project. If it is my project, then as soon as something happens in my life that takes me away from gaming, it will probably die. It has to be a joint effort to be successful. But it won't happen at all if someone doesn't jump start it. That's what I am looking to do.
  5. Hi all, long time player, first time poster :) I have been playing Spiderweb games for over 20 years, I have played every series back to the original Exile (though not every game). TL;DR - I would like to propose the preemptive creation of a Queen's Wish wiki. Recently I picked A5 back up after 11 years (!) - I put it down after getting to Muck and finally accepting that my archer was going to be dead weight for the rest of the game. But I am pushing through it now so I can get to A6 (which, I am under the impression, is a better game; A5 has not been a highlight for me) and finally finish the Avernum series. As I have re-acclimated myself to A5 I have been using these forums to remember what all the skills do, how the special skills work, what the strategies are, etc. As always, the Strategy Central has been invaluable, and I am very thankful to all of the members of this forum who have posted so much helpful info. BUT... (you knew that was coming) Finding the information that I am looking for is frequently challenging. I can't necessarily tell from the title of a thread exactly what I will find on it. Information about specific skills or mechanics is scattered among various threads. Inaccurate information is frequently posted; though it is usually corrected, that sometimes happens much later in the thread, and sometimes not at all. And some of what I am looking for seems to not be available at all, but I can never be sure: maybe I just haven't found the right thread yet? I have found myself wishing that a wiki existed for A5. I know about EE, but it is primarily focused on information about the game world. What I am looking for is information that helps me decide how I want to play the game, and my experience with other games is that a wiki is a great place for that information. The Geneforge series has had several wikis, mostly started and maintained by passionate individuals; none of them ever really reaching a comprehensive state, in part because the effort was scattered. I propose that we create a wiki now for Queen's Wish, and that it be advertised in the (presumably forthcoming) Strategy Central for the game/series. That way, there is one place for the efforts of anyone who contributes to be applied, and there is some chance of it staying useful over time. I know that some members of this forum have not been particularly excited about the idea of wikis in the past. To preemptively respond to what I believe are the most common objections: "It's not necessary. These forums already provide the information, and the people are helpful. A wiki would be redundant." The information on the forums is unassailably invaluable. But a forum is best suited to discussion (hence the name); it does not have good mechanisms for organizing and locating canonical information. For factual information about places, characters, items, quests, and game mechanics, I believe a wiki would have the following advantages over the forums: Each topic would have one canonical entry where the most up-to-date information could be found. Inaccurate data can be changed/removed, rather than corrected separately. Wikis are by nature good at cross-linking, allowing efficient exploration of related topics. The presence of a stub page is a clear indication that information is unavailable. "Maintaining a wiki is too much effort. Spiderweb games are too niche; they don't justify the level of effort it would require. There aren't enough people willing to put in the effort." Maintaining a wiki is unquestionably a lot of effort. I am willing to put in some myself, but if I try to do it alone it will undoubtedly fail; that's why I am here seeking other interested players. It's quite likely that a Queen's Wish wiki will never reach the level of maturity or comprehensiveness of a wiki for, say, Fallout 4, or even Pillars of Eternity. But that doesn't mean it can't be an immensely useful resource for new or returning players, with some contributions from passionate people like the members of this forum. I am willing to make the initial effort at creating a wiki and getting it started. But I know that a solo effort is doomed to fail; and there are also some important questions to answer before starting, most notably, where should it be located? So, is anyone else interested in contributing to a wiki for Queen's Wish?
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