Ess-Eschas

Alright, here’s a modified version of your save file! https://we.tl/t-zNt0dgIIIi I invoked resetboats and, at least on my end, the boat is now where it should be. Hopefully it will now load correctly on your copy of the game too! If it’s still not loading for you, let me know. There’s a small chance your game may still eat the boat when you enter the Ruined Town from Formello – if that’s the case, I’ll save the game in a slightly different location, which should help. If you’ve managed to get your boat back, this *should* be the only gameplay problem you experience with the bug. I’m guessing slightly here, but I think the problem is due to legacy code for the demo partly triggering by mistake. Since this code only really affects this particular boat, you should have plain sailing from this point onwards. No-one else has reported any additional problems, at least so far. However, if you come across any further issues, do let us know! It’s always useful to hear about such things, and we should be able to help! Incidentally, it’s always nice to see a party headed by a slith! Regarding the screen-size problem, you are indeed sitting on the combination of hardware/OS that seems to be affected. Thanks for providing that information! What’s useful to know here is that the problem is only recent for you – this at least implies that it’s not something particularly fundamental to the hardware/OS combination. I’ll add that data to the pool, and I’ll update this thread if we eventually come up with a solution! In the meantime, I hope you come up with a good solution with dock manipulation! I have to do that on a few applications myself, so I know it can be a bit of a pain sometimes. By the way, just for my peace of mind, could I ask if you have any of the very recent Spiderweb Steam releases? That is, Geneforge Mutagen, or Queen’s Wish 2? No worries at all if not! But if you do happen to have one of them, would you mind taking a quick look and seeing if the screen-size behaves oddly there too? It would be useful to know if this problem still persists in the current releases – if so, it might be possible to deal with it when Spiderweb develops its next game!

Hello Megan, Sorry to hear that you’ve been having problems! The odd issue with the game getting cut-off when playing in full-screen has come up on here a few times before. It seems to be quite a rare problem, and unfortunately that makes it a little tricky to diagnose. I don’t believe the cause of the problem has been tracked down yet and, because of this, I’m afraid there isn’t a convenient fix available at the moment. I’m really sorry about that! So far, the problem seems to be associated with Mac players specifically, and potentially with particular versions of Mac OS running on particular hardware. If you’ve updated your operating system since the last time you played the game – quite likely in the current computing climate! – or if you’re playing on a new computer, then that might be the cause. Just for the sake of gathering information, if you wouldn't mind, could you let me know what model of computer you’re running this on right now, and what version of Mac OS? For now – and I’m sorry that this is far from ideal! – I can only really suggest playing with whatever mode feels most comfortable to you. If the window-size the game is selecting for you is too small, there is one thing that might make your life a little easier, however. Macs have a built-in Zoom function for magnifying the screen, although it’s a little hidden away these days. It’s by no means perfect, but it might help magnify a small game window so that it takes up more of your screen. You can turn on the Zoom function in the System Preferences. Select ‘Keyboard’, and then ‘Accessibility’ from the lefthand menu. You should hopefully then see a ‘Zoom’ option on the righthand panel. If you turn this on, your Mac should display some shortcuts for you which will allow you to Zoom in on a portion of your screen. It might be something to try! I may be able to help you out with your boat problem, though! If you can give me a copy of one of your saved games, I might be able to use osnola’s trick and restore your boats on my end. To do this, first locate your saved games folder. It’s possible this is in a different place for Steam games, but here’s what Spiderweb’s support pages say: “If you did not buy Avernum 2 from the Mac App Store, your games are stored in the Application Support folder, which can be difficult to find. To open it, press Command-Shift-G to Go To Folder, enter "~/Library/Application Support/Spiderweb Software", and press return. Your saved games are in the folder "Avernum 2 Saved Games." Open that folder and your saved games will be inside, in folders named 'Save0', 'Save1', etc.” Just pick the folder that relates to the party you want me to fix! To be on the safe side, it might be a good idea to save the party somewhere that isn’t the Ruined Town. Formello itself would be just fine. Then upload the folder to an online file sharing service – I suggest WeTransfer! – and I’ll take a look at it. I can’t promise that I’ll be able to fix things, but I’ll try! In any case, sorry not to be of more help!

Hello Genernumlover, Sorry we haven’t been able to figure out the causes of your problems! However, we may still be able to fix the issue with your boats in Avernum 2, even if we don’t yet know what’s causing them to disappear on your end. This solution has worked for someone once before, so hopefully it might work for you this time too. What seems to be happening is that your copy of the game isn’t placing the boats properly, for whatever reason. However, there is a way around this. The position of all the boats is stored within each save file. So what we need to do is to convince your save file that the boats are where they’re supposed to be for a new game. There’s an easy way to do that, thankfully. If someone *else* uses the ‘resetboats’ cheat on one of your save files, their version of the game will correctly place the boats in their starting positions. This will then be saved directly to your save file. So, if you run this modified file on your own game engine, then all the boats should appear as normal. As least, that’s the theory. It’s worked once before, so it might be worth trying for you too, just in case! I’d be happy to do this for you. If you’d like, choose a saved game that you’d like to progress with, and send it on to me. I’ll then try to recover your boats for you. I’m afraid I don’t run Avernum 2 over Steam, so I can’t say for certain where your saved games are stored. But here’s what Spiderweb’s support pages suggest: “If you did not buy Avernum 2 from the Mac App Store, your games are stored in the Application Support folder, which can be difficult to find. To open it, press Command-Shift-G to Go To Folder, enter "~/Library/Application Support/Spiderweb Software", and press return. Your saved games are in the folder "Avernum 2 Saved Games." Open that folder and your saved games will be inside, in folders named 'Save0', 'Save1', etc.” Choose the number of the saved game you want to send me, and send over that whole folder with that number (e.g. the ‘Save3’ folder). I’d suggest uploading it to some sort of file-sharing service. I tend to use WeTransfer, but you may have one you prefer. If you do that, there's a chance I may be able to recover your boats in that save file!

Hello Firewyrm, Welcome to Spiderweb Software! I hope you’ve been using a Fyora or two to match your username! First off, I’m really sorry for missing your first post about this. I usually try to deal with queries like this immediately – however, I’m afraid you happened to write during a particularly busy spell on my end, and your issue slipped under my radar. Thanks for being so patient, and for posting this reminder! I remember coming across a similar problem myself. Thankfully, there’s a fairly easy way to deal with this issue. You’ve actually come quite close to the solution already in what you posted! Here’s a solution I believe should work for you. I can’t test this myself just now, but I don’t want you to wait any longer. So, just to be on the safe side, be sure to create a backup save of your game before trying this out. That way, if anything unforeseen happens, it won’t affect your progress! 1. Check to see if you have Leadership of 8 or more. This quest line will not active if this condition is not met. I could fix that for you too, but that would require manual editing of the script files. It might be easier to increase the stat yourself if you’re close enough! 2. Go into a zone that is *not* Sentinels. Any other zone will do. 3. Hold down shift and press ‘d’. This should bring up a little text-input box. 4. In this box, type the following command exactly as written below, and press enter: sdf 72 14 0 5. Leave the zone you’re in, and enter Sentinels from the *right* side. I believe entering from the left might damage the triggers. You can do this by explicitly clicking on the right side of the zone. 6. Talk to Heustess. He should now mention a toll. After selecting the conversation option ‘What price do I have to pay?’, you should see the option ‘Is there nothing I can do? Is there no way I can get you to let me pass without eating my life?’. Select that option. You should then receive the quest. If this doesn’t work for whatever reason, let me know, and I’ll see if I can come up with another workaround. For your interest, since you’ve come quite close to a solution on your own, here’s a picture of how this interaction works in the game’s code:

Hello Lord Viator, It’s great to see someone else doing mapping work on the Exile games! I’ve had a look at the material you’ve put together, and it looks really very good. On a broad scale, I think it’s a great idea to put together separate maps for the different sets of graphics used in these games. That way, people can view the maps using whatever graphical style they prefer. Producing the ‘Falcata’ maps is a pretty nice touch, too, since it provides a useful overview of each whole map at a glance. And I appreciate the link back to the heyday of Blazing Blade’s comprehensive atlas! In terms of the small details, everything looks good too. So far as I can see, the frills and the roads already look pretty solid. If there are inaccuracies there, I’m not sure I can spot them at a glance! I had a scroll around the maps, and I think is everything is as it should be. I couldn’t spot any errors, or misplaced tiles. Well, that’s not quite true. I did spot one set of missing tiles. However, they’re not important, since they’re off the main map. And you might have edited them yourself manually anyway. Still, just in case it ends up being important for tile identification, at least some versions of Exile II feature a line of locked doors in the north-west corner of the outdoor zone immediately to the east of Ornotha Ziggurat. Here’s a picture, taken from Mac Exile II v.1.0.3: I’m afraid I can’t help out too much with your questions, but I do have some thoughts. Just to clarify, are the second set of ‘Rock’ and ‘Mouldy Rock’ you mention separate tiles, that use the same graphics as the first set of Rock/Mouldy Rock? One way you might be able to learn the difference between the two sets is to identify how they are used in the game itself. For instance, you could produce a version of one of your maps where the Rock tiles link to different sprite graphics – say something like a big ‘1’ and ‘2’ for the different types. This would give you a simple visual tell as to where the types are used. If the game uses both types, you could note the location of one rock of each type, and then go and examine them in the game itself. For instance, one possibility that comes to mind is use of Shatter/Move Mountains. Perhaps one type of these Rocks can be destroyed using these spells, and one can’t? That’s something you could check out if you know where the different types are found! As for the squared corners, I’m not sure what they’re for. I’ve come across them before in my own mapping work, but couldn’t find a use for them in the games. My guess is that it’s some debugging element for map creation, or for testing combat skills in early test builds, and the graphics simply weren’t removed for the final releases. Of course, I could easily be wrong! Could I make a request? One of the useful features of the Duskwolf maps are indications of secret passages, and ‘cool’ lava. I think this is helpful structural information for maps like these, since it indicates paths for the player that aren’t obvious just from looking at the map alone. Would you consider making a version of your maps which includes this information? For instance, you could put a little colour filter over the appropriate squares, or a little glyph to indicate that they behave different from standard wall/lava tiles, or anything else you preferred. Also, would you be interested in making a version of your Exile I map with a *third* set of graphics? It’s not well-known these days that there were actually three major sets of graphics for Exile I. The versions we talk about today are the final 2.x graphics, and the graphics for the later 1.x versions. But the very early Mac versions of Exile actually had a distinct variation on the early graphical style. Perhaps most noticeable is that the cave walls are grey, rather than textured, but there are a few other differences too – including in the character art. So long as it wasn’t too much work, it might be interesting to see a map based on this art style too! I could probably provide you with a .bmp file for the tiles, although I would probably need a set of PC .bmp files which I could overwrite to make sure what I made was compatible for you, and it might take a little time. Here’s a side-by-side comparison from a beta release of Mac Exile, which is about as far back as we can go, and Mac Exile v.1.3.1. Also, to follow up from something I posted previously in this thread, I finally did track down the Blades of Exile scenario that ports maps from the main series of games into BoE. In fact, I came across a much more recent version. The scenario is formatted for the later OBoE community releases of Blades, so it’s no longer compatible with the base game. The map has been much expanded, too. Here’s an image showing what’s in it. Note that even this isn’t representative – the version I have has a few additions, including a few additional cave areas from Exile III, which aren’t shown below. I've put the map inside a spoiler section, since it's quite large! I’m a little reluctant to distribute this publicly. It contains material extracted from the data files of the main games, put into a format which can be edited. To my eyes, that could be a breach of Spiderweb’s copyright. Even though the games themselves can now be played for free, Spiderweb still owns the copyright to their designs, and that includes the structure of their in-game maps. Producing editable game data using this material, and without their permission, could be getting onto sketchy ground However, if anyone would like to take a look at this for their own private use, do let me know.

Hello Biggus, Sorry not to reply to your posts about this issue right away! I’m sorry to hear that you've been having problems with Mutagen. I hope we’ll be able to come up with a solution for you! From what you’ve said about this problem, and the similar issues reported by barak302 and CafeSpy recently, it’s possible there’s some sort of conflict that’s preventing the proper saving and loading of Mutagen saved games on some systems. This sort of behaviour wasn’t observed during the game’s extensive testing period, and it seems to be something relatively new. This could mean that the problem is due to a conflict with recent OS updates, or updates to other software that happens to be used by all three of you. As you suggested in a previous thread, it may be something to do with virus-protection software. Alternatively, there may be some problem with the way Epic Games is hosting the Mutagen package. Spiderweb is relatively new to the Epic Games Store, and while the game packages on there will have gone through diligent hands of Spiderweb’s testing team, it’s possible there’s an issue there that’s slipped through the net. This is a relatively new venture for Spiderweb, so not every issue connected to the Epic Store may have been found yet. As you can probably see, I’m being a little vague about the causes here. Finding the cause could be half the battle here! This is obviously a nasty problem, and I think it’s worth going straight to the top on this one. The best person to deal with this is the developer of these games, Jeff Vogel. Could I please encourage you to write to him at the address below, including all the information you’ve written about here, including the point about the quicksave, and your ideas about virus-protection conflicts: support@spiderwebsoftware.com Jeff is usually very good about getting back to people about support problems, particularly when they’re this serious in nature. I think bringing this to his attention is the best chance of getting this fixed quickly! In the meantime, I’ll do some digging and see if I can’t come up with something myself. I think Jeff is by far your best bet here, but I’ll see what I can do!

I think now might be the time for a friendly reminder. I know it’s tempting in a thread like this, but testers really shouldn’t be discussing any details of Queen’s Wish 2 until the full game is released. The current demo release is only a temporary one, as part of a Steam event, and doesn’t count as the game’s official release. Jeff will let us know when that will be, but I imagine it won’t be for a few more months! Discussing details before the game’s release is in contravention of the testing agreement. That’s because it can cause problems and confusion if details are leaked before they’re set in stone. Even though it’s late in the development cycle, details in the game are no doubt still being changed around. Probably more so now, due to the recent advert for Windows testers! So if material gets leaked that’s later changed, people who might later rely on that out-of-date material could get confused, or upset, or irritated. That’s not what we want! So, testers, please let’s not discuss any details about the game until it’s actually released. We can save all that interesting, juicy gossip for release day!

Hello BrokenFiction, I’m pleased that you solved your problem! I just wanted to say a big thank you for posting your solution on here. That’s really useful information, and what you’ve written here may well help other players in the future. Hopefully this was nothing more than a freak glitch on Steam’s end, but I’ll take a note of this in case I hear any more reports from other players. It’s always worth being prepared in case it’s the first signs something more serious. The good news is that, if anyone else reports this problem from now on, the Spiderweb boards will know how to deal with it! So thanks for your help! Incidentally, can you think of anything unusual that happened on Steam, or on your computer, at about the same time the problem occurred? For instance, did Steam or your OS perform an update before the saves disappeared, or did your internet connection drop out at some point during your gameplay session, or something else like that? If you can't think of anything, that's no problem! I'm just wondering what might have caused this issue, and any unusual behaviour you've noticed (or lack of it!) might give some indication of that. Otherwise, enjoy your trip through the lands of Avernum. You’ve got a lot of really exciting material ahead of you: Avernum 2 is excellent!

I think part of the problem with this particular example is that we know very little about Shaper law and how it’s applied. It’s entirely possible that there's no inconsistency here at all! Think of it this way. Domestic dogs are, to all intents and purposes, genetically modified wolves. Humans are modified apes. Birds are modified dinosaurs. In these examples, the ‘genetic modification’ happened naturally, rather than through the influence of science – or with the help of the Shapers – but the effect is largely the same. It just happened the long way around! And yet, I expect you’d find it odd if I called someone’s pet parrot a dinosaur, or treated a domestic dog like a wolf. Birds share ancestry with dinosaurs – they’re ‘modified dinosaurs’ – but they aren’t dinosaurs any more! Somewhere along the way, a line is drawn in genetics, where one creature becomes something else. I imagine the same thing happens in Shaper experiments, too. At some point, a creature becomes so far removed from what it used to be that it becomes something new. I think the same thing could apply here. Consider this. A long time ago, the Shapers modified the drayk species, and made the boat species. By definition, the boat species is a ‘modified drayk’. But are they actually drayks any more? The boat doesn’t really look much like a standard drayk, does it? And if they’re no longer drayks, but are something new, then why would they be subject to the drayk ban? My interpretation of this is that the Shapers created the boat species many generations previously. Maybe they even made other drayk-forms too. At some point, the Shapers reluctantly decided that the original drayks were too dangerous to keep around, and banned the whole species. But the boat species, and the other derivatives, weren’t a part of the ban. They were entirely new species by that point! So, even though drayks haven’t been around for a long, long time by Geneforge 1, the boat species could very well still be thriving. That’s just one way you can have a ‘modified drayk’ in a period when drayks are banned. I’m sure people can come with others! All this is just to point out that there can be some real fluidity in interpretation when it comes to the Geneforge universe, and what we see happening in it. We know surprisingly little about so very much of it, and all we see is an imperfect window into a tiny little corner of it. Since there’s a lot of wiggle room, things that might seem contradictory might in fact be perfectly normal! Rest assured that points just like these are brought up by Spiderweb’s dedicated testing team!

Hello Sircedric, Sorry to see that you haven’t had a reply! I thought I’d wait a few days just in case someone more knowledgable than I came in to answer your question. Unfortunately, iPad players are a little sparse on these forums, so I suspect you may not get the answer you need on here. I suggest you write directly to Spiderweb's technical support address. Spiderweb are a really nice bunch, and they should be able to help you with your query. And your question will help them by return: knowing that you haven’t found the resistance check intuitive on the iPad (or that you’re missing it if it’s not there!) will help Spiderweb with their next iPad release! You can get in touch with Spiderweb’s technical support at this email address: support@spiderwebsoftware.com Just say something along the lines of your first post. That should be clear enough!

Of course! Since the graphics mods for the early Exile games are a useful community resource, and relatively small, I’ve temporarily uploaded them to the link below. Be aware that only registered users of these forums will be able to access this link: exile_oldgfx_mod.zip Have fun playing through the Exile games as they looked at the very beginning!

Laydonthemoon, it seems that, for whatever reason, you’ve decided not to listen to me. So, I hope you’ll forgive me if I try to get my point across just once more. I’m doing this because I think the approach you’re adopting here is causing you some harm. You don’t have to agree with my viewpoint, or my advice, but I would encourage you to listen. After all, it costs you very little, and I am only trying to help. 1. Opinions are great! Your opinions are interesting, and I’m pleased that you’re confident in your views. Getting together people with lots of different opinions results in interesting and engaging discussion, and you are no exception to that! But opinions are just that: opinions. They are not facts. As soon as you start stating opinions as fact, then we begin to have problems. For instance, let’s look at what you’re stating here. You make various claims about what you think are happening to video games over time, about who plays video games, who designs video games, and what all their motivations are. But you are not these people. You don’t know what motivates them. All you have here are educated guesses, and your own opinions. Those are fine, and interesting to read about. But they are not truth. You might be reading the situation correctly but, without firm evidence, you could just as easily be wrong. And if you happen to be wrong, and are spreading ‘facts’ that are wrong, then you are muddying the situation, making it all the more confusing for other people. That makes it all the harder for other people to look at what’s going on, and figure things out for themselves. And that hurts all of us. 2. Consider this. Someone takes the same bus into work every day. That bus is blue. Would they therefore be right in stating that all the millions of other busses in the world are also blue? You need to be careful with making solid statements from tiny samples. Your statement might seem reasonable from that sample, but it might be completely wrong when you look at the bigger picture. 3. As I understand it, the power of an insult is largely unrelated to how ‘true’ it is. The hurt comes not from the statement, but from the emotion behind it. If you decide to belittle someone, or denigrate them, then it doesn’t matter whether or not your descriptions of them are accurate or not. You’re still acting in a negative way towards them. And that can hurt. It can also hurt whether or not you meant it to hurt. In this thread, you have labelled a whole bunch of people using negative, derogative terms. Some people are going to be hurt by that, because you are saying unpleasant things about them. Whatever your motivations, you are causing harm to others. And that is a problem. It may also cause issues for you. I am trying to object to your comments kindly and thoughtfully. But there are others in the wider world might be less restrained in their responses to you. If you keep dishing out insults towards people unlike yourself, don’t be too surprised if you end up getting insults dished right back at you. Don’t be surprised if you get caught up in fights, or ugly arguments. Some of those insults and fights may end up hurting you by return. And that is a problem. Anyway, those are my thoughts. You are entitled to listen to or ignore them at your leisure. But, if nothing else, please just remember my warnings. Maybe I am wrong, but I am saying these things to try and help you, and perhaps they may just give you some food for thought at some point in the future.

It’s great to see another person editing the Geneforge Wiki. The more the merrier! Creating, enhancing and maintaining repositories of information like this is a really great thing for fans to do. It takes time and effort, but the result can be an extremely valuable community resource. One need only look at the Encylopedia Ermariana to see how useful and informative a Wiki based on Spiderweb games can be. The Geneforge Wiki is clearly a work in progress, but it’s getting better all the time! All the more so for the additional material you’ve added in to flesh out Mutagen, and Geneforge 2, KoalaLumpur. So, keep up the good work! And you too, Mechalibur! Your efforts are inspiring. While I’m not sure there’s much I can contribute, since there are plenty of people who know far more about this series than I do, I’ll have a look from time to time and see if there’s anything I can add too! May I encourage others to do the same? Are you interested in Geneforge lore? Do you want to share your knowledge? Then give the Wiki a shot! With our combined efforts, the Geneforge Wiki can only get better!

You know, ladyonthemoon, I find this slightly worrying. In this thread, there’s been an interesting discussion about how video games have changed over time. We’ve had input from people with very differing opinions, and that’s been great! By combining various different perspectives, we’ve been able to have a good discussion about various changes in video game design, and the positive and negative outcomes of these changes. For example, our original poster, Solberg, has a strong opinion on this subject. But they have explained their reasoning, and why they feel the way they do. By contrast, you’ve come into this thread stating – categorically, and with no proof, evidence or explanation – one particular view. Moreover, you seem to be stating that view as fact. To add insult to injury, you seem to be using this viewpoint to belittle or otherwise disregard an entire swathe of people who, for whatever reason, don’t happen to see things in the same way that you do. May I remind you, ladyonthemoon, that you made a similar post in a broadly similar vein earlier on in this topic. I recall that quite distinctly. After a brief discussion in which several members of the forums disagreed with your comments, you deleted that post, and every subsequent post you made in this thread. Let’s try to make sure the same doesn’t happen again! It is a really, really good thing that we have people with a whole variety of experiences and opinions on these boards! You are far from alone in liking games from a particular era, as some other posts in this topic testify. And there are plenty of people on here who would be most happy to talk respectfully about the positive and negative aspects of games you like compared to others. Your opinions are interesting, and there are no doubt many users who would be happy to discuss them with you. But coming into a thread stating that many of the posters are flat-out wrong, and insulting them to boot, is perhaps not the best way to share your opinions. I’m not sure it makes people all that inclined to continue the discussion. Unfortunately, that doesn’t do much good in showcasing your ideas. At the end of the day, that’s not good for you, or for the thread. Next time, perhaps that's just something to keep in mind. By being just a little more respectful of other people’s viewpoints, and a little more open-minded, you might be surprised at the different sorts of reactions you can inspire in people!

Thanks for the links! They’re interesting, and you’ll see I actually commented on one of them. However, none of these topics seem to mention the cause of this bug. They simply describe the bug’s effects, or gameplay problems that arise when the bug has triggered. I can’t see a single reference to anyone making heavy use of the junk bag prior to the bug triggering – only comments that the junk bag is full after the bug has triggered. Unfortunately then, it seems that at the moment I only have your word that the the cause of this bug is known. And if I’m looking into the bug in an attempt to help people who are experiencing it, I simply can’t just accept a claim as to its cause. I need to know for sure, and for that, I need some solid proof. Indeed, the posts you’ve linked to here don’t seem to tally very well with the cause you mention. Reports about this bug are linked to early game locations (Angel’s Rest in Avernum 3, one of the Nephilim Forts in Avernum 1 or 2, something around the end of the Avadon 1 Demo, etc.). I’m not sure the player will have had much chance to fill their junk bag this early on in those respective games, or even to put that much in them. One of the posts even implies (although it is ambiguous) that a player saw the bug at the very start of the game. Moreover, there are posts on these forums that describe people completely filling their junk bags without any problems. See here, for example (although, amusingly, this post does describe a *different* junk bag problem for one user): https://spiderwebforums.ipbhost.com/topic/21140-a2cs-petty-pleasures/?do=findComment&comment=280217 So, with apologies Randomizer, but acting in good faith I can’t accept your claim as to the cause of this bug just now. If evidence about what causes this bug comes to light, then I will of course accept it happily! Not least, it will help me in my efforts to come up with a workaround! But for now, with regret and with my assurance that I’m not trying to be contrary, I’m afraid I need to still consider the cause of this bug to be unknown.

Hmm, that’s interesting. I wasn’t aware that anything was known about the causes of the ‘Classic’ junk bag bug! Not least, what you’ve said here seems to slightly contradict some of the reports I’ve read from users who’ve been experiencing that problem. However, anything I can learn about what’s going on with this bug is helpful, and gratefully received! Is there a post on the forums where the causes of the ‘Classic’ junk bag bug are discussed clearly and unequivocally? If so, could you send me a link to it? That might help me in my search for a workaround!

Yes, I believe there is a connection between the ‘Classic’ junk bag bug and the ‘empty container’ bug. I can’t vouch for that myself, however; the empty container bug hasn’t been discussed much recently, and I’m not as familiar with the innards of the games that tend to display it as I am with some others. But you’re right, that’s the reason I mentioned the bug extending as far back as Avernum 4. Good catch on pointing out that those games don’t have a junk bag, of course! I should have been a little clearer on that point. Oops! In any case, it’s generally a good rule of thumb to keep around multiple save files. After all, in Jeff’s own words: “If Exile You want to save Back up your save slots Burma Shave.” Otherwise, fixing a bug like this is frustrating, but I’m sure it’s possible. All it takes is enough instances, and it should be possible to track it down. On that note, any Mac players who encounter the ‘Classic’ bug, please store the affected save file, and send me a copy of it if possible!

Thank you, alhoon. Since this topic contains two quite distinct bugs which could easily be confused or conflated, I thought it was important just to make absolutely sure which bug you were talking about! On that note, I think we should just take stock for a moment. So that everyone’s on the same page, below is a summary of the two bugs that are being talked about in this thread. Let’s try not to confuse the two, lest we end up starting harmful urban rumours, or worrying players unduly! 1. Baelrath’s Junk Bag Bug – This bug allows the user to scroll past what is supposed to be the end of the junk bag, resulting in the game displaying a strange assortment of items and dummy items. This is a new bug, one that has arisen in the new interface for Geneforge Mutangen. It is not present in any other Spiderweb titles. It is entirely harmless, so long as you don’t go playing around with the strange item assortment. 2. The ‘Classic’ Junk Bag Bug – This bug fills the player’s junk bag with dummy items which cannot be removed or sold, rendering the junk bag useless. It is an old bug that has appeared in many Spiderweb titles, experienced as far back as Avernum 4. This bug arises from a corrupted save file. All subsequent saves made using this file will also be corrupted. (It doesn’t corrupt any other saves, so no need to go to drastic measures, alhoon). There is no known fix, although I’m still working on it! With apologies to Randomizer, but so far as I’m aware the cause has not been determined. To my knowledge, there is no evidence to suggest it is due to the number of items in the junk bag. If the trigger for this bug were that simple and repeatable, it would have been fixed 15 years ago! So far as we know from reports on these boards, it occurs very rarely, and almost never in a repeatable fashion. There we have it. Sorry to go on about this, but I was concerned this thread could end up confusing these bugs. Hopefully this will help to clear up any potential misunderstandings!

Hello alhoon, Your quotation mentions two very different bugs. To which are you referring?

Hello Baelrath, That’s a nice little bug you’ve found there! It probably comes from a small interface oversight, where the greyed-out button isn’t correctly deactivated. Can I ask that you send an email about this bug directly to Spiderweb Software? This will make sure that they hear about it, and can work on a fix. It’s possible it’s now too late to get the problem patched in Mutagen, but your report will ensure that problem is ironed out when Geneforge 2 comes around! You can email Spiderweb Software at the address below. Just mention the steps you used to activate the bug, and what happened as a result. Your post here is quite clear, so feel free to just say something similar in the email! support@spiderwebsoftware.com By way of explanation, what I think is happening is that you’re using the junk bag to tap into some other portion of the game’s data. When you scroll past the ‘end’ of the bag, some other area of the game’s data is being loaded. The game is trying to read whatever that is, and interpret it as ‘item’ data. But, because it’s something else entirely, the result doesn’t make much sense. That’s why you’re seeing all those random items and the strange daggers (which are the game’s way of showing items it doesn’t understand). To anyone reading this thread, I say this: Do not interact with the items below the bottom of the junk bag. It might be tempting, because some nice items can pop up down there, and in great quantities. But because you’re interfacing with other parts of the game’s data, removing those items could have all sorts of unpredictable, strange effects. There's a chance you could permanently damage your save file, or potentially even the game itself. So it’s probably best not to risk it!

Ah, I think I understand what you mean now! Unfortunately, I’m afraid you’re probably mistaken. There is no way to access that portion of the map in Avernum 6. While it is possible to cross the river west of the Abyss in a few places, your explorations are very tightly controlled. You never get to see anything more than about a screen’s worth of map for your troubles. The vast majority of the lands west and north of the Abyss, past the river, cannot be reached in Avernum 6. Sorry! If by some chance you *could* make it to those parts of the map, you’d quickly see why. There’s very little there. Besides some simple decoration, there are no creatures or encounters in that part of the caves. The map segments don’t even connect properly, so you’d have a hard time even moving around! Sadly, Avernum 4 is the last time you get to explore that area fully. I suspect locking off that section of the map is a quite deliberate design decision. After all, it ties in quite nicely to some of the broad themes of the game. Avernum 6 is all about the slow return of the caves of Avernum to their wild, frontier days. And what better way to demonstrate that than to make an important part of the caves inaccessible, simply because of an overgrowth of cave fauna, and a lack of suitable boat-builders!

Nice idea, but I’m afraid that’s not the solution this time. The Orb of Thralni has lost its power by the time of Avernum 6! If you’re looking for a way into Rentar-Ihrno’s old keep, ClawBug, then why not ask her kinsfolk? Perhaps the Vahnatai in Tenevra will have something to say on the matter? After all, don’t forget that the Vahnatai are experts in long-distance teleportation!

Nice work, osnola! That’s something I was going to try myself, but you saved me a little time by preempting me! Take a look at osnola’s save file, Yip, and see if that fixes your problem. If it does, then great! Although I would suggest that you keep an eye out for strange behaviour from boats in the future, just to be safe. If this doesn’t solve your problem, though, let us know what happens. If you’re triggering the demo code somehow, it’s possible you’ll experience some further issues (which should be quite obvious). However, we already know more about your problem: that your version of the game behaves differently from osnola’s. That might give some indication of what to try next, should things still be acting strangely for you!

One simple way to share the saved game would be to use an online uploading service, and post the link in this thread. Here’s a link to a service which seems to work fairly well: https://wetransfer.com/ Unless you really want to, just ignore the opening registration prompts. Click ‘I just want to send files’. You’ll then be taken to a screen which allows you to make an upload. To make sure you’re dealing with the right kind of transfer, click on the little circle with three dots in it, and make sure that you’re on the ‘Get transfer link’ setting. Once you’ve uploaded the folder, WeTransfer should give you a link. Then just post the link in this topic! Of course, feel free to use another system if you’d prefer!

Good on you for trying that trick already! I had a feeling it wouldn’t help, but it was worth checking out! I’m afraid this means that the problem might be a little tricky to solve. I’ll put my thinking cap on, though, and see if I can come up with something! The difficult part about this is that the code relating to that particular boat – and most of the code relating to boats in general – is hidden away deep within the game’s innards. However, it might be possible to come up with a workaround. I’ll see what I can do! In the meantime, would you be willing to share your saved game? It would make coming up with a fix that little bit easier! Since you’re running on a Mac, I should be able to look at it directly myself. I might even be able to shove your party past the block manually, and then send you back a saved game where you can continue normally. If you don’t know where your saved games are stored, below is the appropriate section from Spiderweb’s support pages. I hope this applies for Steam games too – although any forums users who know differently, do say! “If you did not buy Avernum 2 from the Mac App Store, your games are stored in the Application Support folder, which can be difficult to find. To open it, press Command-Shift-G to Go To Folder, enter "~/Library/Application Support/Spiderweb Software", and press return. Your saved games are in the folder "Avernum 2 Saved Games." Open that folder and your saved games will be inside, in folders named 'Save0', 'Save1', etc.” All I would need is the folder relating to your current party. If you're not familiar with a good temporary upload site, I suggest WeTransfer! By the way, don’t worry about the language. You’re making yourself understood very well. Je vous comprends bien!