Owenmoz

Hm, is there a best Warborn tribe to make friends with, or just kill em all?

Ogres give an achievement. But everyone says they are horrible. Wretches and Titans are both good choices depending on what you feel like.

Nathalie loathes necromancy.

Tru but its me we're talking about. The only one to potential and such.

Im not sure what made tawon gods more appealing than crystal souls. But you're right they are almost the same. Another difference is that crystal souls are "born" mad and then are helped by their peers to attain sanity. While gods are bound to eventually go mad.

And well if you go to the velusa library you actually learn how to do it.

Yes i agree that was what really drew me to them. It seems so much more interesting that way. Although that was also taken from me by hearsay only though it appears that like all magic it will fail over time and thats why they get less stable and weaker.

Such good lore thrown under the bus for the sake of sense. *Sigh*

Although if its all truly simply due to necromancy it makes no sense that the gods themselves don't really understand what they are and stuff like that.

On another point of speculation. Why didn't Nathalie make me into a god when i became keeper? They said they lacked knowledge for longevity. But this is very close to it.

Anyone else kinda disappointed they are just necromancy? I kinda liked the previous lore that said they drew strength and attained godhood through their worshipers and lost it through their loss as well. Idk seemed more romantic and heavy than necromancy. At this point anyone could become a god and facing them is much less awe inspiring.

Im relatively antisocial. And while i may be rude or unwelcome to people at certain days specially if they come into my house obviously uninvited. But i will not kill them nor try to nor take their minds. That's the important difference. I also expect some will adapt. But the vast majority will die off.

I take my hat off to the very misguided and fatalistic wisdom of your plan. Sometimes we all just want to see the world burn. Might as well teach important lessons.

Chaotic good?

On the other side thats exploitation of gazers.

God hates gazers!

Gazerality is a sin!

All gazers go to hell!

The purity agent is gods punishment for gazers!

Ok just kidding and im out of stereotypically gazerphobic remarks. Not that im gazerphobic. I have gazer friends.

Ok im done

All have tendencies for megalomania. And complete disregard for human life. They don't tolerate us. They are very belligerent and insolent. The ones that generally don't attack you is due to some sort of agreement with the rebels which they are paid not to. Even then you need only to give them an excuse and they kill you. If they were to follow human law they would expect reward for it. Thats not how it works, humans are not rewarded for following rules. They are punished for it. Gazers engage in capital punishment often. You wouldn't need to seek them out and destroy them. Simply subject them to human laws and they would slowly but surely become extinct. Sure we don't really prosecute wild animals that kill humans strongly(cept, harambe i still remember you bro. 2016 neva 4get) because they are not considered to be highly intelligent and able to make choices outside their instincts. So acting the same with gazers is preferential treatment. If some manage to survive human law; those have the right to continue living although im not sure their kids will but if they do, why not. Highly intelligent reasonable beings? I long thought that humanity's limitations are due to lack of discussion with other intelligent forms as they are bound to think in ways we do not and thus grasp some things more easily.

That being said a gazerforge is the most awesome but hugely irresponsible idea i have heard of. First because the reason drayks were barred is that they eventually become too smart and too independent that only the most accomplished shapers could properly tame them as such they are deemed born rogue. Gazers and eyebeasts are literally the most independent creatures made and nearly impossible to control. Most stray gazers in the beginning of the game came to be due to them breaking free of their master's control and killing them. A shaping gazer would be by far too strong a match for a shaper. They are naturally absurdly powerful at magic. With the edge of shaping taken off? Not likely to be defeated.

That being said drakons are very proud of being independent. A slave no matter how powerful wouldn't gall Ghaldring, free ranging shaping gazers would but why on earth would you think thats a good idea?

Ah you are an angel. I always wanted that. But i had in mind to get kratoa kell or whats its name after makkar dies. But i'd settle for rebel base. Its grate i tells ya grate! I just wish i could take it over as a shaper or of the kind. Still doe. Grate.

Gazers are a danger to society!

I didn't get the first is what i meant. I heard you did a warrior kinda one too

Tbh i never really not kill footracer. I always powergame. So i always kill him. I said mercenary over the token that allows you safe passage. But i get you on that. Idk if it has any real effect though?

Greta is cool but she isn't really in prominent on that game. She seems to be there as a by the way.

Ahh i never got the mod. Unfortunately my main pc broke down so im stuck with a husk.

And tru. I met my match here. Actually better. And sometimes even i wasn't sure what we arguing about.

Tru again. Gazers are a danger to society!

Ps. I'm not being "too" responsive cause of work so; sorry.

I find that teleportarion and shittone of pets work great. Everyone should have one. Potions of recovery are important. Health pods as well. Around two speed bursts and expect your main tank to die. Get rid of the drakes first. If inconvenient though take care to remove the titan mob. Though really. Drakes are trouble. If you can. Try summoning in and waiting for the beat to disappear until you get corrupted hound. Good health and imune to acid. As well as great attack.(the scarab does randomly get it. Idk bout wand of calling)

 

 

No he doesn't, he wants a special one. Your character just convinces him it's special

We all want a special potted plant deep inside.

Edit: Jesus Christ not literally.

Well, let's say that I have predicted the outcome of the spoily one. From what several people (humans, serviles and Drayks) say in GF4 and GF5 it wasn't hard to predict.

The first blows are done within GF5. Remember that weirdo servile that has a control tool? Foot-racer? She's loyal to Ghaldring and would allow me to pass. Guess what I did in order to help Phyllida of the human side.

Hahahahahahaha! Thats a mercenary heart my man! And true it was predictable. More so in g5 than g4 as at least ghaldring didn't seem too arrogant. I got annoyed at g5 for not bringing any voice to the rebelion. The best options are not the actual rebels.

Ah... I see you haven't seen all the endings of GF5.

I actually have just its tricky not to spoil to blxz so im arguing on the possibility not canon.

Tru. I don't get how though. It is not a nice experience not being sure about the future and all most of all that. You don't know what to look forward to and you can't plan for anything. And it does craps to the economy. working is pointless. ehhh lets just say war is stupid and again. in my experience people settle for tyranny if it gives stability.

The unbound were developed by the drakons in secret. human participation was a diplomatic token. They were not needed. And only had a role in the very last part of it.

And true, arrogance brought the shapers down. But surprise, complacency and the limitations of their own laws too. Drakons wouldn't be too surprised and they have no laws. If anything they can shape themselves further into stronger even more powerful beings. Im not saying humans have no chance. Just saying it wpuld drag out for very very very long. And with new unbound shredbugs and diseases roaming the victor will be king of a sewage.

I don't think the human rebels care much about who stays in power. So long as its fair and not autocratic. Drakons do care about who stays in power. But like i said. The war take wasn't my best argument. After all it doesn't really matter why they fight. But that they do.

Eh, no. It's actually quite common for the victors of a rebellion to turn on each other. Since I don't want to turn it political, I'll refer historical examples.

 

I wss going to say its not the same. But well it is. Even the russian revolution(actually this one could be classified as 3 wars in a row/simultaneous, all short lived though) was like so. And South Sudan as well.

That being said there is a difference between a power struggle which is usually the cause for those things falling appart and an ideological one. They mix it up a lot of times but in general it comes down to who wants to be in power. In this case its not about power really. Its about ideology.

Edit: to avoid multiple posts ill let you wrap up your points first. Anyway people really really don't like war. Im not familiar with your examples but if im to bet, i would on those wars not having lasted long.

Alright i think you're done. So mainly. Tru some people have the will to go to war repeatedly. My experience with that first and second hand is people quickly settle for tyranny if it brings safety. But I overstepped when generalising.

Also right. I inconveniently forgot that. I was referring mostly to g4 on that. But on g5 the human rebels were engaging Astoria right? Their limited participation on the war was due to the truce. Still drakons are more powerful than either they single handedly saved the rebelion. As they created the unbound without human help.

Yeah. Shapers are very strict but they don't destroy people who remotely disagree. The mayor of dilame was merely moved to a closet.

The main difference on the previous rebelions drypeak not included is that they had no shaping. Mere humans even mages are easy to subjugate. Or how the saying goes a shaper is an army. What diya and current shapers were/are facing is fellow shapers and creations. All those rebelions barely had time to be spoken of. Also the whole geneforge timeline is iffy depending on what game you base it on. Using g1 as a base they haven't had a true war in millennia. But granted by g5 they do mention previous small scale rebelions.

Lolz. I'll never understand your dislike for him. He's like a younger brother to me. Much love.

Ok... They are awesome in battle. Also a fave of me(unlike vlish... Icky floating thingys) my final thing is cryodrayk rotgoth and gazer(kyshak too in the last ones). That being said srsly in 5 games i cant think of a single stable gazer. Its part of why i love them/fear them. So maybe a few are sane. But mostly... Nahh... Besides nothing should exist without laws to govern themselves like drayks and drakons could be governed under human law with certain cultural exceptions( mainly for instance the makonde tribe can cut ebony for cultural reasons while its illegal for anyone else to do it) some small concessions and limited autonomy. I don't see gazers accepting it. They keep to themselves mostly ya. But they are a danger to anyone that crosses paths with them. That will not do. I blame the shapers for the defective shaping of their minds. But still. They crazy.

No you didn't say that. But you did say: "If what keeps them in power is not their wise use of this power, the need to lose their power.

Which is what I work for. " My questions were based on this.

And no, litalia is responsible for that and diplomatic relations. As well as greta. Both of which enforce the laws to remove dissent. I.e. trajkovites. And tech traitor also means that. Ghaldring has you try to kill litalia because she was a traitor.

They simply have no need to make examples. It isn't their authority thats being questioned.

Mostly on the shaper laws being wise and not just hoarding. Cept the genocidal ones.

To be fair i am not pro shaper. I just don't like the leadership the rebels have. And their methods. Ideally were shapers more lenient and open minded it would be best. Like what Astoria is trying. Im just sad it took a war of that scale to open her eyes.

We can all agree that there is no example of a two in a row revolution. And that humans, drayks and serviles would be as exhausted as the drakons by the end of the war(if not more as most fighting was done by them while drakons hid and did magic shappy things in the labs)

No because genetic engineers didn't create international law or any constitution. UN and governments are the ones with power. And both can pretty much have cafeteria guys jump when they say jump. If it were us to create the laws and enforce them i don't think the justifications on why i hold the power matter as much as the fact that i do. But the shapers don't have power only because they can shape. They may have siezed it thanks to it. But they would n't have held it just for it.

True. Corporate espionage is a crime and most research facilities have a non disclosure clause. But the big difference here is companies do it solely due to intellectual property and money. And that sure is hoarding power. Unlike for instance me handing the nuclear weaponry research to the Syrian rebels. It is not about whats right or wrong or about money in this case. Its about preventing disaster that arises from irresponsible use of power. Much proven true as instead of doing helpful research the rebels are just wreaking havoc. And thats a very not in depth take on it. Same with the Syrian rebels. I don't doubt for a second they would use what they can to win. Weather their motivations are right or not doesn't matter. They shouldn't have access to it.

Your take that diya's general went against his back is contradictory to another take where you say

" it is mainly their cruel, cold and uncompromising evisceration of anyone that remotely disagrees with them" cause thats not even remotely. Thats straight up insubordination

Besides in geneforge 4 the shapers are at war. All countries have a clause for martial law which includes curfews and severe crackdown of human rights for the preservation of the state.

Also Diya was sent to harmony before the rogues. And having a shaper law asking a shaper to step down in favour of a more experienced comander would require the shapers to have been faced with a similar situation before. They haven't. The whole shaper army hasn't seen real war for millennia. So in this aspect a young shaper is as good as his general. That general was no veteran. Older yes. But this is the first time they are facing a situation if those.

Gazers are not sentient. They are insane. Weather they are simply sociopaths or psychopaths is to flip a coin. And more so that they view themselves above law. Any law. Without a law to govern them they should not exist. And i say the same for any human. In fact that is why death sentences exist.(and the general penal code)

If they are not intelligent they don't need independence. In truth they shouldn't have it as they can't take care of themselves. The plan in itself would be acceptable were it not fpr the fact that its preceded by a mass genocide of basically everything.

And the rebels are wiser in their use of power? Unless there is a viable alternative why overthrow something that works?

Finally rebels don't look any kinder on traitors. They lack the means and time to enforce it well but in no way are their intentions different.

That being said im glad part of what i said earlier got to you.

Ahhh now i have lots of opinions to share.

In short. (Its actually long)

Not necessarily the long term effects of the rebelion might as well be the installation of another magocracy. The drakons are definitely more powerful than the human part as evidenced by g4. Obviously less scrpulous in unleashing destruction.

So maybe pararel to the Bolshevik revolution. It started with good intentions. It won, even if for a period they stayed true to their goals (during Lenin's rule) it quickly gave rise to Stalin who undid the little good the revolution had managed and ruled with a tighter iron grip than both the church and the tsars together.( Tru he has advanced society in terms of tech and stuff but a great price) not even the politburo dared move against him and the people didn't either. For all the atrocities he has committed everyone decided it was better and easier to wait until he dies. And up to date his rule has had bad repercussions. For all efforts the future leaders weren't able to fully erase his influence. And they tried. That to say taking power by force requires use of force to stabilise rule. And further to avoid dissent. It sets a bad precedent and centralises power. And its flipping the coin on who end up with that power weather its a worthy being or not.

Mind that humans had support of drakons to rebel against the shapers. Whose support would they have against the drakons?

On shapers. They SEEM apathetic. They need to create distance from the people and emanate control and authority. That is what kept them in power. Sure creating life is badass but the public needs to revere them and trust them. You can't really trust your life to someone who will get drunk with you and carouse the barmaids. You can't trust the person to have that power either. Some get used to bossing people around and seeing them as tools. But a lot of them still keep their humanity. Taygen gets an outsider girlfriend. A lots of the shapers care about people. Dinwanya himself gave room for the general to give suggestions or even make decisions. He was to let the blacksmith use an enchanted forge. He let lankan in close and long enough to get punched by him. Even looks to you for support. Shaper Donnel tries to heal your mind from the effects of canister abuse. Miranda is very human and straight forward with you. A lot of shapers have a love for teaching. Becoming a shaper is a possibility to any outsider that can take it.(i think to any mage and any outsider can learn magic.)

And i agree with you that the shaper system is doomed. Creating intelligence without expecting independence is unrealistic. Expecting unconditional obedience is unrealistic. Creating a life form that is basically slave labour is just plain wrong.(draws a paralel with the geth in mass effect).

And killing anything that doesn't fit those requisites is definitely not ok. A bad and dumb idea.

Thats not to say however that the shaper laws arent wise. Short sighted a bit. But for instance im going to become a genetic engineer. That area is tuled by tight laws and ethics. The simplest example i can give is plants. You create a gm plant, when you do you should make sure it is a sterile plant first and foremost. Why? Because if the polen or the plant escapes to the biosphere it can set out an unpredictable chain of events and drastically change the native flora etc etc... And its a simple plant and thats one of the most basic rules. They exist for a reason. And its not just to hoard power. It is to limit the potentially destructive effects of shaping. You talked about burrowing mold from geneforge 3 created by a shaper. But its a shaper that broke those laws and got swiftly punished for it. They enforce their laws on their own sect. And if such tightly controlled knowledge is still misused by people well trained on it imagine if they let just anyone on it. Well you get stuff like taygen's puruty agent. Shredbugs, spawners, creators, unbound etc... And that is deliberate misuse of shaper arts for belic reasons. A geneforged person can have in them the innate power to relesse even deadlier diseases. Shaper laws exist for a reason. Shaping arts should be horaded and very few should have access to them.

And true. Drayks and drakons should be able to live. But are they to be ruked by the same laws as humans? As shapers? Are they to be left to their own devices? Specially with the power they have?

Are eyebeasts and gazers to also be allowed to exist?

On the serviles i agree completely. Why i in a lot of games choose a rebel ending.

Self shaping should be banned to. The idea that the power should be earned and learned not just given is very wise. Actually let me draw the pararel to humans again. Self shaping is really close to the concept of eugenics, which is also forbidden by international law. Because among others it gives room and excuse for ethnic supremacists. Create a discriminatory system based on how "advanced" a person is. Research for such things require human experiments. Which are for one illegal for that matter since the results can be horrendous. And success on it has unpredictable repercussions. Defending self shaping is wrong. For once i do mind strongly if you don't change your mind on that. Excluding the obviously seen effects of canisters all the other reasons should be enough for you to stand against it. I really ask you read more on the subject and its impact on society.

Egalitarianism is the base idea of communism. No social stratification. Equal opportunity. Working together to grow together. All that.. Beautiful ideals. But humans are selfish communism cannot exist. Not in a society where everyone feels the need to be better than the rest. Even with a more open and transparent government there would not be true equality. And the serviles themselves would have to struggle long to be seen as equals by humans. And that wouldn't happen completely.

Abolishing the magocracy as blxz was saying would be impossible unless you remove the magical powers including shapping from everyone. And even then magic would be replaced by something else, the people with better bigger and more swords would be in power. Or the people with more money. doesn't matter. Its how it works. There is no escaping it. There is always power backing authority. If there is no power or at least the illusion of it(preferably both). There is no authority.

EDIT: On tech advancement. There is always stagnation in technological advancement. Never a stop. But always stagnation. Changing the laws wouldn't stop that. They'd just stagnate slightly later when you're done with illegal research. Look at us now. No flying cars and space colonisation yet. Still going forward. Just slower than some 100 years earlier.

 

how the war never seems like much of a challenge. You never get to intervene in big battles for your homeland, save a city from being massacred, put up a resistance on any of your fortresses. It's all smooth sailing from one region to the next, effortlessly ending the war. The main antagonist is not Dheless, but Redbeard and his escalating insanity. The main menace is being at the mercy of the guy you have to work for. Dealing with him through the entire game ended up feeling tiresome to me, since it's something you have to endure up until the very end of the game.

 

Tru

I also really liked that there was a lesbian eye.

I'm sorry i didn't answer earlier. Work is scrambling my brain. And as you can see by now. Fighting honourably results in death. Without spoiling much all i can say is if you're really bent on it, in time you'll get your direct and honourable fight.

 

 

My personal theory is that the Corruption is a kind of nexus between alternate universes with different and mutually hostile physical laws; each version of the Corruption's origin story happened in one of the universes that are now connected to it.

Nethergate crossover!

I just finished the game. I will do two half replays. I don't think i can handle more wyldrim for a full one.

Meanwhile its a great game. Possibly more fun that avadon 2 for me.

I gotta say though: huge spoilers ahead:

Alright like i said before ill let it drop. Still. Have fun doing litalia's dirty work rebel abomination scum >.> jk. update me when you do his side.

Well of cpurse he doesn't believe you. But he cant prove it so thats good enough. If he kills you anyway maybe its cause you have a too pro rebel allegiance. Idk doe. Anyway i think by the end of dhonals you can stand your own against him.

Just to see what would happen, I gave the Canister to Lankan. He promised to fight the good fight (against the Shapers and the monsters created by his benefactor...). I talked to Diwaniya... he went batpoop crazy and killed half my party before I had a chance to act. So much for his weakness...

You could have lied.