alhoon

A possible change I noticed was with Shanti and Sharon. Shanti apparently told Sharon ... good things about me. That is peculiar, considering I have been saying pro-Servile things day in and day out. Perhaps I have not said enough by the time I reached Sharon. Or there is no different choice. Regardless, Shanti seems more likeable in this version, tough but not obnoxious and more involved in your training. Or it could be that I know what happens to her but I think not; I think she is written as more likeable to make a bigger impact. 

I don't know the Order of the Guardians and the Dawnslayers bring only a vague familiarity with the name, but the Keepers of the Feather would probably give the Shaper a wide berth and even spy to see that he is not going to fall under Strahd's thrall or he isn't going to be a know-it-all butthole that looks down on non-shapers and oppresses his Creations. And unless the Shaper is a rebel, they will be disappointed. I do not think they would move against the Shaper though just for this.  

Now, if the Shaper you are talking about is a Drakon Lifecrafter... that is a very very different discussion. Ravenloft is a land of prejudices. 

Magic skill also increased their cone attack damage too. 

27 minutes ago, Randomizer said:

If you join you are officially a Servant

They could have at least picked a better name! Loyalists. Faithful. Believers. Traditionals. See? I found four. Was it so hard? 

10 hours ago, Slarti said:

  I guess someone else had the same bright idea I did and Jeff closed that loophole.

What was that idea? 

Also, hardcoded exit? 

At least, she could be in the town so you could talk to her. Say "hi", chat a bit, invite her back to your apartments for some wine when Shanti is not there...  

Both of you talked about the differences between optimal and viable. I think that for normal difficulty, even veteran difficulty, it is viable to have more than one Shaping type. Not the best, but viable. For all it's worth, I want my late-level party to have a combo of: 

Drayks, Gazers, a single rotdhizon + a Vlish for blessings and/or Drakon there just to have a drakon. 

My early-mid party I envision Fyoras/cryoas, a clawbug and vlish.  Or a Drayk if I can get them early. 

14 minutes ago, Iguana-on-a-stick said:

Upgrading all 7 roths costs 35 essence, so until you do that 5 times, 35 essence is much better than a level of fire shaping. Let alone 44 essence.

With 10 battle Shaping and 2-3 in the other shaping trees ... could you even control 7 fully leveled Roths? 

One of my Fyoras went rogue in the mines (the attack-them kind) and I have "weak" control. 

45 minutes ago, ultra112 said:

I wonder if the Shaper in question could help regrow Ezmeralda's leg?

I  would expect not. While they do healing their services are not for free and I am not sure that Shapers do regrow limbs for people. A lifecrafter that was skilled enough probably. If Ezmeralda could pay - or the Shaper needed her services and goodwill and the shaper had the necessary skill perhaps. 

But I am not sure new-version Ezmeralda would even want to be indebted to a strange mage she doesn't know for him to use on her powers she doesn't understand in order to regrow her leg. 

2 hours ago, ultra112 said:

Also going back to Ravenloft, I wonder what the reaction will the big time heroic npc like Ezmerelda Radanavich or Rudolph van Richten have when they meet a shaper?

I would say that depends heavily on the Shaper, but I would assume Ezmeralda would be more understanding while VRichten would be more cautious. 

At level 16, that would be 150 skill points to play with, leaving 90 for shaping and essence mastery. With essence mastery starting at 4 +8 from any source, you get according to that formula: 4 + (12+1) x 18 = 238 essence. Which is already a ton, at the expense of at least 2 levels of shaping. 

It seems from your very useful break up above that 200 or so essence would get a bunch of drayks and rots with key upgrades, with plenty of essence leftover for spells or to boost them with more levels etc.   

Thus 200 essence is a nice target for say... level 18? 

The equation becomes 4+(EM+1)x(18+2) = 200 => (EM+1) = 196/ 20 => EM=9. 

With Essence Mastery 9 from any source, you would have 204 Essence by level 18. 

So the question now becomes: When you say "three are reasonable by endgame even without killing faction leaders", is it reasonable to expect at least +2 by level 18? 

If yes, then Essence mastery above 7 is a waste for a Shaper. 

Honestly, I would think: Magic for Guardian (For the buffs) and Battle for the Agent (For tanking/melee/meat-shielding) 

I have found that I am very fond of Zora the Scout, which is a very useful (but not very brave) scout with a battle roar. Her dialogue and picture are all good too. I like her very much and I wish she had more dialogue which can be arranged for future games. 

I really want to see what Zora does after GF2 and I think her being sent to the Ashen Islands for being involved in Drypeaks is a reasonable outcome. 

Furthermore, Zora is awesome to have in your party early game.

Here are some wise words about Zora the Scout: 

On 3/27/2024 at 1:24 PM, Randomizer said:

It really pays to have some Leadership to recruit creations or NPCs to join you Some are better than your character at this point in the game and will make it much easier. An example is Zora in Drypeak Mines for her buffing ability, Battle Roar. 

2 hours ago, Slarti said:

Nora is exceptional period -- unless you're eschewing other party members entirely, any party wants her around for 100% of the Drypeak area.  

Ehh... guys, I am at level 4 and I have bought a bit of essence mastery and a bit of Fire Shaping. I kinda feel that the one thing both of you agree is that I should not have done that. 

I will probably soon be level 5 and ... 

You know what? I will buy leadership and mechanics. I have 4 essence left and all the rest tied by my 3 Fyoras. I have them with the haste and cone breath and fast recharge (which seems a waste to be honest as so far nothing survives three breaths). 

But after level 5, should I focus on Shaping Mastery instead? 

53 minutes ago, Iguana-on-a-stick said:

(Ur)Glaakhs/Eyebeasts/Gazers/Rothgroths costs 100s of essence, requiring a large investment?

Even in GF5, I had to reach like level 40 before I could field 7 top-tiers. 

I plan to have some decent blessing, a bit of battle magic and mind magic and decent healing by end game. It may be suboptimal but it's what I want to do. I doubt I will get battle magic 5, but some battle magic to get a few decent attack spells is something I will buy. 

Thank you for this. 

Now, would it be too hard for you to do an educated guess, I am not asking for an extensive analysis, for "early game" (say up to level 7-8), "Mid game" (levels 8 to say 13-14, having picked a faction and explored quite a lot of the map) optimal creations? 

The synopsis above, with 8 levels in Shaping seem like early-high level - as you assumed 8 levels in the required shaping class and all sources to boost the creations. A shaper could get 9-10 to compensate a cannister or training lost by those levels. 

Early level one hasn't have access to many creation types and getting that tier 3 instead of this tier 3 can make a difference. 

I would also like to know if you are in the camp of "spend a lot on essence mastery to get more creations" or the "spend more on shaping mastery for tougher creations." 

I would also know where the various people you recruit fall in that analysis, if possible; what I mean is that early game, Nora the scout is an exceptional battle-creation replacement with her high hp (for level 4) and her roar to boost the others. 

What? 

Raising is the Barzites right? Back in the previous game, they had a cannister mad lass that was seeing shadows and ghosts. 

From what I can see, she is holding the hilt of a slightly curved sword, face-down. If the game had AI-gen graphics, it would be mentioned on Steam and it isn't. Honestly, I don't see the weird angle and I find it reasonable for a scout to have lots of belts. 

What I can say with certainty that it is bizarre and it was as bizarre in the original, is the map where you have rivers merging in a lake... and no outflow. Where does the excess water go? That lake is not an ocean; unless those rivers only flow for a couple of months the water that comes in is nowhere close to what would be evaporated. 

On 3/27/2024 at 1:24 PM, Randomizer said:

An example is Zora in Drypeak Mines for her buffing ability, Battle Roar. Ciphar in Western Mines will kill almost everything in the Saltmarsh if you let him heal between fights by just staying in a safe area.

Someone asked before, I think. Not sure where. 

Is their level capped at the moment you hire them, or is it set? I.e. if I get Zora (who also has a very beautiful art) at later levels, is she higher level?

I do not want to check the script files for spoilers. Her roar is great, her hp and damage combo make her better in fighting than a Thahd I could make.

3 minutes ago, Mechalibur said:

No, there's no way to sabotage the mines. There isn't really even much reason to - the people actually doing the mining are the commons (you can see the miners by the mine entrance early in the game), so it's not really a pro-servile move to disrupt them. Drypeak also isn't an economic powerhouse that threatens the Awakened and even the Takers are fine with you completely ignoring Drypeak since they're basically a non-issue. Only Barzahl really wants you to take out Zakary and the loyalists.

Was that like that in the original? I remember the Awakened ignoring Drypeak, but I think the Takers wanted Lying Zakary the Deceiver dead. Or it could have been me. Not sure. I will kill him. Perhaps I will do it before the end game, but I will kill him. I am not leaving the valley with that guy alive. Yes, I know the Shapers also kill him. But I want my cold eyes to be the last thing Lying Zakary the Deceiver sees as he departs this world. 

The other guy I will certainly kill is the guy that will kill Shanti. I will play along with Barzhal's little games till I can kill that guy. 

Prip the Servant mind in the mines and the Pylons. Apparently, I think I could turn on the Pylons; I confused Prip. But I do not want the mines to work! I want the Awakened to crush the Shapers like bugs and the Servants* along with them (which is what a Taker would say not an Awakened, I see that, I see that...). 

But "story-wise" my character is not anti-Shaper yet. So, going out of my way to NOT fix a glaring problem when my character is not aware there is an entire populated valley 

Is it possible to fix and then sabotage the mine? Is the reward worthy enough for me to do it? Reputation is a kind of reward for me.  

*As long as I am not the one killing the Serviles that look at you with big eyes and ask you to save them, like the Servants in the mines. Obviously I saved those. The Drakons can kill them or convert them later. 

2 minutes ago, Mechalibur said:

 As long as you don't do anything ridiculous like exclusively invest in melee/missile skills on a shaper, you should be able to clear the game just fine.

I would not do that, but if I was playing an agent, I would invest very heavily... on Shaping. 

Cryoas are buffed? I loved Cryoas but in Mutagen...  

As for Fireshaping not being the best any more: Would you explain more? Clawbugs, I guess, are still very good. Vlish, I guess, are a near-must. But that said, the "meat" of my army is usually Fire creations. 

2 hours ago, Slarti said:

- For Mechanics "items", there is also a +1 Mechanics book, and it's in the same room as Tinker's Gloves.  You truly don't need to invest a lot here.

Apologies, but I find that mistaken from the perspective of the casual gamer.
I am in the early game with mechanics 2 I think and I can't open half the doors and the chests in the early areas without living tools, which are rare and expensive at this point. I cannot loot investigate many of Drypeak's buildings and there are abandoned chests in the mines I cannot open. Yes, I am aware that I could return there 10 levels later with the gear and all or save-and-load to use my living tools wisely, but keeping a huge list of doors I have not opened or frequent save-load is not that entertaining. 

Thus, I would dare say: Mechanics are needed in the early game.

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Welcome (so far) change for the original: The dialogue is improved. I may have forgot a lot, but I certainly enjoy the dialogues. It was good in the original, but here it is better. 

There is reputation per faction now?

13 minutes ago, Iguana-on-a-stick said:

 

She also says she "trusts his judgement" and that "he is not the most talented shaper, but he is a good man at times."

 

Suggests to me she's far from blind to his flaws ("at times") but that she does have good reason for her loyalty, even if the details remain mysterious. It's not just soldier loyalty or being a "brainwashed puppet" or anything like that.

I would dare say that her being aware of some of his flaws and still oblivious to how far he has fallen, is kinda leading towards her being a Shaper puppet - as in she is brainwashed to think that her Shapers superiors must have a reason to do what they do, even if she (also a Shaper) doesn't understand it. 

I am planning to eventually make a mod that levels up your NPC companions to reach your level. + One that allows you to convert research notes and shaper equipment to training. 

7 minutes ago, Randomizer said:

Pain, excruciating pain. It is just there as a step for the trainer to let you get trained. 

 

There is a final trainer in Outer Gaza-Uss that can train you in those highest level spells without the pain.

That's because you are a Shaper. If you were a servile you would either have to become a mad cultist with access to a little power OR go through that machine. Tuldaric is the best.