Jump to content

Star Sage

Member
  • Posts

    20
  • Joined

  • Last visited

Everything posted by Star Sage

  1. @wackypanda: Are you talking about Khogarth in the Fort on Greenwood Isle? Cause I just did him....er, by which I mean, I just did the scene with him, and I got no message about alignment change either way, though the dialogue indicates you go Shaper both for getting him to back down, and for killing him. Either way though, I don't think this is too harsh, as you can go through all three previous options before the Alignment choice, and one of them is literally just to walk away, and he stops you from doing so. At that point, he's gone a bit too far, and while killing him is harsh, this is an emergency situation, and he's accosting the only person capable of doing anything about it. And this is, again, after you tried to walk away, and told him to back down(While likely being an armed wizard, with two more as backup). I think that qualifies as too dumb to live. Also, as a note that ties into the first post, you seem to lose(Again, I don't see a pop up, but dialogue says so) shaper points for lying to him. That kind of is my point about shapers and their morals. They don't lie to people. If they say something is going to happen, it happens. That's why they're slow to react, because they want to be absolutely sure they can do what they need to do safely, before they act. Heck, that even ties back into game 2's plot. Drypeak is an example of them promising something, but not being able to fulfill it, so they just keep throwing resources at the problem, both in terms of personnel and materiel. It's probably their second most noble trait. As for the Disease plot...a bit too contrived, I'd say. Also, it kind of, again, seems to paint Diwaniya as a put upon guy. If his specialty isn't diseases, then he might not have the training to deal with that sort of thing, same as how you had to go seek out a Sage on Greenwood Island to cure that fungus stuff the one guy had. Personally, I'll say, the easiest way I can see to make the island a bit more balanced, if you're willing to change things up, is split the San Ru map. One area the city, the other area Diwaniya's keep/manor, and make it so, while Diwaniya is indeed sending some forces out to help, he's mostly just cowering in his own home, with his 'chosen' people, basically those he likes best. He justifies it by saying not everyone can live in his home, which is packed to capacity, and thus, he has to make hard choices, a fact you can agree or disagree with. At that point, Lankan does have a leg to stand on with his arguments, and so does Diwaniya. Still paints Litalia and Hoge as awful, awful people, however, so it overall still leaves the rebels looking bad. That last point...well it's not like Retcons are uncommon in this series, given that an entire continent vanishes between games, but still, it's an interesting thought. Remember, Drypeak Valley showed the Shapers what happens when their art gets away from them, and perhaps over the intervening decades between games 2 and 3, they cracked down on unregistered mages and magic, just in case. It doesn't really fit, considering the PC's statements in Dhonal Island's mage school in the keep, but it is something to think about. @alhoon: Some of that is responded to by my response to wackypanda, so I'll skip to the Astoria parts. She doesn't want peace, she wants the fighting to stop. That seems like a minor thing, but it kind of informs every decision she makes. She's willing to set the world up for a far worse war in a generation than the one being fought now, as her 'peace' is nothing of the sort when you reach her ending. Again, it's a peace wherein the 'leader' of one of the sides is killed, and worse, one of the two sides in this peace, is going to end up with a conniving monster in charge, though which depends on if Greta is killed or not. This is most seen by how the Shadow Road operates. If she wanted peace, she would have her own people helping to manage it. Instead she's more turning a blind eye, hoping that the Rebels can be bought off with gestures of good faith, and by the looks of it, that's not working. Not only do there seem to be more unbound in her area than most others(3 in the ruins, 3 wandering the swamp, and one attacking the mountain pass), but worse, the Kaz jerkwads are helping to setup the lab in the Shadow Road to make more horrors to unleash on her. And yes, the statements made about Kaz indicate they helped, which is the third time the Takers have pulled this sort of crud on people who trusted them. Also, as to the point, they are indeed willing to allow people to come back to them. Remember the Serviles in Game 4, the ones that joined the cult. The one that actually wanted to return was allowed to do so. The one that convinced him to leave and wanted to be a cultist was reabsorbed, but then, she wasn't right in the head. Then there's Shotwell, the guy who can join you in the destroyed city on the northern coast. He was a rebel, and repented, and Alwan let's him. Or that Rebel Trainer in the camp in the Fens. He's very much working with the Rebels, but they let him come back, though have him spy for now, whereas the Rebel spy in the Shaper Fen camp is a Refugee, not a Shaper or other person in authority. Final point, the Shapers know that surrender to the Rebels isn't any better than a Rebel surrendering to them. Again, there are few defectors, as the other topic we've both been involved in makes a point of, and of the ones we know of, they tend to go insane or get 'bad' canisters to a more frequent degree. Heck, to the point where I think the Drakon's might be doing it deliberately, though I'll admit, I have no proof of that. Regardless, the Rebels don't seem willing to sue for peace either, given you have to kill their leader, and break their fortress to even get them to the table, and even then, they're setting themselves up for more fighting, if you kill Greta.
  2. Back to the original topic for a bit, though I will respond to the Astoria stuff later, but Master Hoge and Morales(I think that's his name, the guy to whom the crate was addressed on Dhonal's Isle).
  3. Then I will say specifically that you're just wrong in Post #22 in this topic. You're point there is that Diwaniya is in the minority, when you've barely encountered the shapers in a non-combat setting. Most of the ones you see in 4 and 5 are currently engaged in a war with the Rebels, and thus, assume, as you're most definitely not somewhere a normal person should be, that you are an enemy combatant, and to be treated as such. Heck, considering the way the war started, with random attacks unleashing monsters they didn't control, the Shaper attitude towards the Rebels is understandable. Mind, I'll acknowledge that the older games are harder to play(Heck, I probably wouldn't have made it through Game 1 the first time without the Kill Code), but it does limit your perspective on the combined narrative of the games as a whole, as you're missing chunks of it. That said, you do bring an interesting perspective to the discussion, as you only saw the war itself, never the build up, and thus see the sides a bit differently that someone who saw the origins of the rebellion would.
  4. Bah, philistine, didn't even read the whole of the first post...that or it's been a while and she wasn't important to you. She got a whole point to herself as a Pro of Game 2. Anyway, Shanti is your mentor figure in game 2, she's the Master you're apprenticed to, and your guide on how Shaper society works. She's harsh, but fair, and considering some of the others we meet later(Alwan, Rahul, etc.) who are in shaper society, I think she represents the Shapers as they're supposed to be. They rule, but they're not without their sense of justice. For those who side with them, there are great rewards, for those who merely stay out of their way, there's some contempt, but nothing overly harsh. It's only for those who oppose them that you find their wrath. She made a huge impression on me my first time, and is probably one of the reasons I'm pro-shaper for most of the games. The other reason is Litalia is a very bad word I won't say here, and severely turned me off the Rebel ideals.
  5. Okay, I'll disagree with that, alhoon. Shanti and others tell you that it's not fear you want to use to keep others in line, it's awe. Yes, we do see the shapers reacting harshly, but mostly towards actual rebels, as in, those who have struck out against them. At least for humans, creations are different, and I'm going to ignore them for the moment. Heck, remember in 5, we find a guy in the stocks in Alwan's main fort, and he hit a commanding officer too. He was mostly going to be left there for a while, maybe with a beating(And a fine, but I think that just skipped over his jail time) As for the Rebels on Harmony Island. Well, they were still resisting when the Shapers came down, and thanks to us, they learned that Lankan was getting assistance from Litalia. Lumping them in with the main rebels makes sense at that point, especially if they were still holding out hope that she'd come through for them.
  6. If you're curious, I don't quote because I'm lazy. Yes, I wrote a 5K word critique of the series as a whole, but I'm still too lazy to work the quote system. @Nim: I do see where Jeff made that decision, and I accept it, the big issue is that in game 3, they're trying to get me to work with them, the Rebels I mean, and I just don't see where they're going to be an improvement over the Shapers as a whole. Heck, the Shapers are, for the most part, pretty good to the people under them. They're not nice, but no one goes hungry, and everyone has a roof over their head. It's creations and serviles that have the big issue, and while I feel for them, mass murder is not helping their case any. My first taste of that was on Greenwood, in the school. Hoge, if you have the leadership for it, will basically admit what he did, and while he'll hit you with a theoretical issue, it's not one we ever see in the games. His version being forcing the Serviles to work in a mine, during a non-critical time. As compared to the food gathering their being forced to do in the opening days of the war. Better, there's a spy servile in the kitchen, whom I tend to kill most times through. Whatever she's fighting for, she killed students, or helped kill them. And then, when confronted with one still alive, not only makes no apologies for what she'd done, but then basically tries to threaten you into joining their side, saying the shapers are going to fall. As for the rest...yeah, Harmony Island has issues, and while I can propose a few ways to patch over the issues, it is a case that the basic premise has flaws in it. @idonotexist42: Hmm, major game changes sound okay on paper, like I said, I still prefer the more streamlined approach, but I will agree with the addition of the charm bracelet, especially as it is giving up an inventory slot for something that might only have marginal use. Now, as to Harmony Island, I will have to disagree there. Lankan did a lot to make me hate him from the moment I met him. Not only in how he acts, but also in that he ran. He didn't confront Diwaniya, he didn't reason with him, and what few accounts of the punch we hear about sounds more like he walked up and started shouting at him, and then just hit him to punctuate it, and that includes the stuff his own followers say. Mind, they say it was the correct choice, but then, considering where they are, they kind of can't not say that anymore. I think the biggest fault I have with Lankan is that he ran. While he was probably afraid, the fact that he ran, into the monster infested island, dragging his friends along with him, shows his lack of caring about them. If it had just been him, it would have been bad enough, but he dragged families apart for this, and worse, he has a spy in Shaper's city as well. I mean, that just screams to me that Lankan isn't on the up and up for all of these things, though I do feel for him at least a little in one way. Litalia is screwing with him. Seriously, consider where he is, on the north eastern tip of the island, an otherwise defensible position. So what did Litalia's little band build just outside his position, a healing crystal for the rogues of the island, which will drag them towards him. Mind, they don't seem to be attacking often, and might just be keeping others away, which in and of itself would work as a plan considering she'd want him isolated and desperate.(I do recognize that we don't know when the crystal thing was built, but given the turrets by the Gather's camp were new additions, it's not a stretch to say the crystal is one as well) However, whatever sympathy I feel for him is mooted by two things. First, even when confronted with the revelation of what Litalia did, he doesn't care. By his own statement. Worse, when you bring the canister to him, and then smash it, after he refuses to stop coming towards it, he orders his people to kill you. There is literally no way he can win against the rogues now, and he's really only trying to kill you out of spite, and even in a base playthru, his group is next to no threat to me, Alwan, and Greta, let alone my vlish army. I think that shows he doesn't care about the lives of those who followed him either, just his own power/position. That is why he refuses to go back too, in my opinion. If he goes back, he'd lose some of that, no matter how minor the punishment he'd be given, he wouldn't be the unshakable pillar he likes to be seen as. I will however agree that, yeah, the biggest flaw is that, thanks to the disconnected nature of the islands, the lack of follow through with the story on Harmony is one of the biggest issues. If something happened, like you leading an assault on the southern city, or wiping out the rebels were there, maybe it would work. My favorite would be just to have them break up and go back to their homes, but yeah, either of the other two would work as well if you want to do that. Or heck, maybe a big fight with some NPC allies. Lankan vs. Diwaniya, with you helping out one of them. Say at the Dock, when you go to leave, if you gave the canister to Lankan, Diwaniya appears to try and stop you, and you get to assist Lankan in beating him, give you a taste of what it's like to fight a real shaper, while also giving a dang good reason for Alwan to leave, as he just helped kill someone he respected for position alone. If you instead killed the Rogues, Lankan is waiting for you, when you and Diwaniya go to undo the magic bindings on the dock. Lankan is mad that you destroyed the rogues, as his people left him, and he reveals another canister arrived for him. Using it, he then fights you and Diwaniya, with again, a taste of what's to come later. As for the last part of what you said....yep, that's what I said too, and obviously I agree wholeheartedly, though I will say, five could use a way to assist the rebellion, without also being Gheldring's lackey. Again, something like Greta or Mekan running their own subfaction inside the Rebels that you can join with, rather than just the one line that says you overthrow Gheldring after the rebellion is done.
  7. @Alhoon: Ah, I see, so it's not that you find the points invalid, you just find the issue itself to be small enough that you can overlook it for the things that game does get right. I'm not going to argue that, as it is a personal preference thing there. As for the Mega-Monarch, your character makes the observation themself when you find the Unbound in the fortress, comparing the two approaches, Mind, I'll give you that you can indeed change sides, but you get a horrible ending because of that, if you've spent the whole game serving the other side. Of course, I do think that's what allows jeff to make the endings as diverse as they are, though I'll hold up that 2 does similar things while still allowing lots of freedom to pick right up until the ending. Oh, and I think we have a misunderstanding. I didn't mean balanced as in power balance, I meant balanced as in, the Rebellion here, compared to 3 and 5, is actually a legit option for me. Their justification for their actions in the other two games always came off wrong to me. Knocking things down, without really trying to set anything up to replace it. It's why I bring up the fact that in game 3 there's only 1 normal human in the rebellion(And having played 5 just last week, I don't think there's any at all in that one, save maybe a border guard). In 1 and 2, the 'Rebels' are all trying to build new societies, or otherwise survive, in 3 and 5, it's focused mostly on knocking down the shapers, with little care as to what comes after, and the Shapers have a tendency to make much better points than the rebels in regards to morality in general. In 4 the moral high ground isn't something either side ends up with. The Rebels really were trying to build a functioning society again, or at least, defend and keep territory, where before they were just trying to destroy things. @Nim: Ah, I see. And no, I don't think that justifies it entirely, I'm saying that at least would be an argument that could be made if you have that happen. As it is right now, Harmony Island shows the Rebellion is all about scorched earth, and isn't trying to show off why they're right and the Shapers are wrong. The only people they're hurting here is a community of normal people, and the serviles of the island. Nothing else is being accomplished, not even really doing anything to the Shapers, as Diwaniya doesn't seem the type to leave to help, he'd have just squatted on his island til the crisis is past. At least if you make the herbs something used in shaping, attacking the island has a strategic point.
  8. @alhoon: Ooh, where do you disagree? I like discussion on these points, it's why I posted it, and do want to hear what others think. As for the idea of a mod...probably not me. Last time I tried to mod a game I broke my computer, makes me weary of doing it again(If curious, Evil Genius was the game). I could write the dialogue, as I am a writer(Plug for my account on Fanfiction.net: https://www.fanficti...80903/Star-Sage) @Nim: Like, totally dude. I actually have no idea how else to respond to that, as I'm not sure what it means.
  9. Hmm, I'll go a bit backwards and respond to the last part first, as I want to say I do disagree with that. After having to juggle all the inventories in Avadon of my characters, I welcomed returning to the Geneforge series, where I only had to worry about one person. It's not just because of the items themselves, as Avadon has the junk bag to store stuff, but always having to worry if you checked everyone for everything. It's a bit tedious in my eyes after a while, and besides, I like the idea that they're not going to drop their favored equipment just because you say so. That said, I do agree with the idea of giving creations/companions more than one attack. A ranged and a melee would work best there, perhaps even an enhanced AI script for when you give them more intelligence, allowing them to make the best use of their abilities. Heck, for those two in game 3, it might be interesting to give them shaping abilities. Have it be temporary every time, using up their magic, and never lasting more than the area you're in, explained by you being better than Alwan at shaping, and Greta being only partially trained. As for the above point, well, it's mostly agreeing with what I said, so of course I'll agree with it, though I'll even go one step farther and say Lankan's thing actually soured me on the Rebellion overall for a lot of the game. I mean, think about it, what was the strategic significance of Harmony Island? It has a shaper lord, a very minor one, described as being only a few years out of school and...that's about it. The Rebels attacking that island the way they did makes little sense in the long run, considering the resources spent there could have been used to maybe help make the creator better on Greenwood, or Dhonal's Island. Thinking about it farther, it shows they're basically not thinking of anything but destruction at this point, which while appropriate, is kind of what makes me not like them in this game. They went out of their way to attack normal people here, and didn't care about them in the slightest until they started to rebel themselves. After all, Lankan admits, Litalia did not contact him until after he'd hit Diwaniya, so it was less, we want people to be free, and more a recruitment opportunity. Again, there are a few ways to make this better. Directly state that the herbs of the swamp can be used to make essence(It's implied once, but for the most part, they say the herbs are used in food prep more than spells), and they're doing this specifically to cut off the supply of the stuff to the Shapers as a whole. Boom, it is now the fault of the Shapers that the Herb gathers got attacked, as if they didn't need the herbs for their art, the rebels would have had no reason to bother them. Heck, you could even play that up, say that the island was fine for generations just selling herbs to mainlanders, till the Shapers came and planted their special crop. In regards to Lankan himself, I had the idea of reversing who hit who as a good way to build sympathy for him. As it is, he's basically a guy who hit the equivalent of a cop, in the middle of an emergency situation, because the cop wasn't able to just fix the problem by snapping his fingers. If you buy that he's merely acting that way because the Shapers encourage them to think that way, than he's just an idiot for doing that, as he just hit a guy whom he thinks can destroy him with a thought. If he's not someone who buys into that(And lots of people don't), then he's just made the problem worse by distracting the guy who is the only one able to fight the monsters. For the reverse, have Diwaniya dealing with some Alphas or Betas or the like, with the crop in hand, when Lankan comes up. Diwaniya's tired, and gets short with him, telling him to leave, and Lankan refuses, demanding to know when he'll fix the problem. When Diwaniya won't give any definite answers, he grabs him, and one of the creations acts to protect the Shaper. Now, Diwaniya can admit to you privately he could have stopped it, but he didn't because he felt the fool needed to learn his lesson, and thus he allowed him to be punched and blown across the room. Now, to make it fair, Diwaniya goes over and heals him immediately, even protests that he would never have allowed anything worse than a bruise or the like, as he still thought Lankan was a useful tool. However, the moment Lankan is whole, he accuses the Shaper of trying to kill him, and when Diwaniya protests, trying to get him to calm down, Lankan hits him in a scuffle, hard enough to break his nose. Lankan then runs off, telling the tale of how Diwaniya tried to murder him for just asking questions, while Diwaniya will be furious, and even bears the broken nose for his trouble, saying he'd actually healed the ungrateful muckraker. Boom, now we have a dilemma. Diwaniya shouldn't have done what he did, but Lankan was at fault too, especially given the healing, which is why the island is divided between the two. They both make good points, and the people don't really know which one is in the right here.
  10. Okay, had these thoughts bouncing around in my head for a while, and figured I’d better get them out before they pound a hole in the side of my skull. In this case, it’s just some ideas and thoughts on the Geneforge series, and as I want to collect these in a way that makes sense, I’m going to order them in a structure like this. I’m going to go over three categories. Pros, Cons, and then Remake Points. Obvious what the first two are, the positive and negative aspects of the games, the third is where I think the game could be improved through a remake of it, from better stories, to just general systems I think could easily be improved. I’m going to start it right now, with a small overview of the series using those three categories. Geneforge Series(As a Whole) Pros: This series is one of maybe two I’ve ever played that uses a binary moral choice system in a way that feels organic. It’s not good or evil, paragon or renegade. It’s actually a complex web of morals that I think really gives the world of Terrestria life. Unique gameplay. You’re always a summoner in these games, no matter which class you pick, the major element of the game is Shaping, and like Bioshock and Plasmids, this is taken as a core of both the character and the world as a whole. It really gives the game an interesting feel, and makes party management both easier, and complex at the same time. Only one inventory to mess around with, but one that affects everyone in the party, who all draw from the same pool of resources, almost like a toned down strategy game. Cons Gameplay itself can always get a little old by the end. Near about level 30 for most playthrus, about the half to two-thirds mark of the game you’ve got your character built, and while you might refine it a little, your strategy will vary little. I know this is more about me than anything else, but it would be interesting to have more growth options near the end, like some special skills for people specializing in Leadership/Mechanics, or extra creation types or something. Remake Points Graphics and engine improvements could be implemented easily enough, maybe putting it on the same engine as Avadon. I’m obviously not a graphics snob, considering I like games like this, but still, it would be nice to give every named character their own model, or at least match the models up a bit better with the descriptions of them. Maybe some Old Save Bonus or New Game + system could be implemented to give you a cool feeling. Like, for instance, in game 2, you find a satchel at one point that belonged to the main character of game 1, and in game 3, one of the deliveraries to the school was from an ‘unnamed’ friend of the teachers on the mainland, and it contains some stuff from game 2, etc. More utility creations. One of the more interesting parts of game 4 was the use of followers that raised stats of the main character. It might be interesting to add those into any remake set, something that makes you a better mage, or gives a healing buff to everyone in the party, etc. With that out of the way, let’s get onto the individual games, some of which might surprise you. Still, it’s based off my opinions, so let’s move right along to the games. Geneforge 1 Pros First game in the set, so it began most of the series’ moral complexity from the start. The three servile sects are actually quite distinct from each other in philosophy and tone of their individual areas. Probably the best overall start of the games, funneling you right through a few areas and drip feeding you the world building at just the right level. Enough to make you curious, but never enough to really overwhelm you like some later games. Cons Sucia Island is probably the most disconnected of all the locations in the series, in a lot of ways. The individual areas feel disconnected from each other, with nothing really spilling over between them. The biomes of the island aren’t really together, with lush forests giving way to deserts, which then give way to frozen valleys. The story tries to justify this, but it does a poor job in some instances. And worst of all, the story is the least connected to the overall plot. While Sucia Island is important, in the grand scheme of things, it’s not as important as what was done later in the Valley of Game 2. The factions are meaningless. It feels weird to say that, but here, the factions and the loyalty are at their most useless. They’ll give you a few items, and some neat little stories, but since they’re so disconnected, you end up being able to ignore them. Heck, as all they give you is items and every great once in awhile a canister, this feels pointless. Like they should have a greater effect than they do, especially as only one faction, the Takers, actually ties into an ending, as you kind of need their help to get o Trajkov. The endings. This is a problem to a lesser extent in game 2, and barely present in the remaining three, but it feels like there’s only one good ending, out of about five bad ones. The one good ending is loyalist, almost nothing else gets you one that doesn’t plunge the world into war, and even that one is suspect for later, as Trajkov being the only one able to resist the geneforge’s corrupting influence, when he’s clearly been affected by the canisters, is just weird in the continuity of the series. Remake Points Map redesign. This is the only game in the series I’m going to say this, but this game needs a full redesign of most of its maps. It feels like Mr. Vogel(Can I call you, Jeff?) was really not sure how to make the maps right, and went with the same design philosophy that Avernum used. In that game, you would, at most, have probably five characters(It was possible to do eight, but unlikely as that would require all four being summoners), the tight hallways and narrow passages helped by keeping things out of sight, and building a sense of dread. In a game where almost everyone not doing a challenge run will have eight party members, it gets cramped and they tend to get in each other’s way a lot. Give more options. For the most part, a large selection of the maps and events require you to have great combat ratings, and they don’t really like the sneak/tech/charisma builds that are of great use in the later games. Make more connection points. There are events in this game, like resurrecting mind four, or assisting the renegade Sholai that seem like they should provide actual gameplay benefits, but either don’t do anything at all, or give you an item. Sometimes it is indeed a good item, but it would feel even better if these had some effect on the world at large. Like the Renegade Sholai actually moving in with the Obeyers, or the Takers sending warriors to assist with clearing a hard area, or things of that nature. Geneforge 2(My Personal Favorite) Pros Best overall story in the game. Where game 1 felt like it didn’t really have much of a point beyond setup, and the later three games feel like only parts of stories(Because they are), this is a complete tale from beginning to end. Everything here feels more complete because of that, as it doesn’t really need you to play the first game to get it. Excellently put together, and very cohesive world. Best factions. While the other three are anti-shaper, the version they take on are actually unique, as each has their own overall goal, and their reasons for doing what they’re doing. Most of these would be reflected in the Rebellion of the later games, but it would mostly take its stance from the Takers, with only a few bits from the other two. Really good here. Your choices are your own. You can even reject the valley’s conflicts, and just leave, though that leads to a bad ending, it’s still an option. And unlike game 1, where doing so felt weird, as you leaving the adventure half finished seemed just odd by that point, here it was actually something you could logically think would work, even though you’re warned it’s a bad idea by a few people. Every major combat encounter can be avoided or mitigated in some way. Anyone that has to die for any of the endings can either be mechaniced around or talked down, or just made very easy through non-combat options. This includes faction bosses, something the later games sometimes forget to do. Shanti. I’m going to list her here because she’s so much...more than what she seems. This is your teacher, and in the whole series, really the only person who is nice to you, not only because it’s her job, but because you’re her student. She cares about you because you are her responsibility, and she wants you to learn and grow as any teacher would. This is most shown in that fact that you can snark at her, and while later games would have you slapped down for doing that sort of thing, she laughs along with the joke. Really short screen time, but very important in my eyes. Cons The factions could help you more. Like in game 1, it sometimes feels like your actions should result in more aid than just a few items. Especially the Takers, given you can easily betray them at several points by either killing people they need, or stealing stuff, and yet they seem to trust you. It feels off, like they should have sent someone with you to watch you. There are times where you can learn things, but never are able to bring them up in conversation. In the Demo/Beginning area around Drypeak, you can bring up what you’re finding to Shanti, and she has things to say about it, but then later on, you can discover stuff like the fact that the Awakened leader has an escape ship, but can never do anything with that information. It just feels like there’s things to do there. The inventory. In game 1 it was bad, but for the most part, you only found a few items of real worth, and most of those were quest related. In game 2, it has a proto-crafting system, but because the sprites of many items are repeated, you can easily miss some nice items for it, and never realize it. Also, it was just a pain to mess around with. Pacing. After you get through the Drypeak area, the game’s pacing goes down the hole. It constantly repeats stuff, making sure you know things, as you can sometimes come into areas from separate routes, and it just feels so weird. It’s why I think this is the easiest game to start, but the hardest to finish, as by the time you’re through one area, you kind of already know the story for the rest, and it’s just a matter of getting there and doing things. Remake Points Expand on Shanti a bit, give her more of a presence at the beginning of the game, and maybe give a way to end her story differently. A bit of a spoiler, but she dies in the main game, and I’d love a way to either catch up to her if I get to her soon enough, or to find her being healed by serviles or something. The creations around the valley that you can get to join you are a neat idea(There are 7 of them, not counting Nora and three Ornks), but maybe expand them a bit too. Give them conversation options like with Greta/Alwan from Game 3. Not quite so extensive, but more just feelings they could give you, that sort of thing. Make more sprites. As I said in the Cons, the lack of different sprites for this one really hurts it at times, both for equipment, but also for some scenes. In example, when you finally find Shanti’s dead body, you’re told you buried it in a bit of dialogue, but it just kind of sits there instead. Give us a mound of dirt or something. Geneforge 3 Pros The most focused story in the bunch. There is not one part of this tale that isn’t tied directly into the main plot, as the Rebellion’s opening attack is what kicks everything off, and it’s what makes everything matter. Companions. Greta and Alwan, while a bit two-dimensional here, are still great characters, and really add something to your quest, both in how they interact with you, and how they interact period. These two are going to become big faces in the later games, and they start out here just getting their feet wet, so it works. Varied mission types. This one is probably the best at giving you missions on your quest. Not just go kill the thing or go steal the thing, but get me these things here that require talking to, or stealth around the back end to prevent being seen by this one guy. And almost every mission has more than one ‘success’ condition, so it all works out to really make a neat tapestry. The only game in the series where, regardless of which faction you fought for, your use of canisters in commented on, and in a way that makes you feel awesome either way. Cons Least connected overall world. While everything happens because of the main plot, the main plot itself can’t change at all because of your actions. This means each island is it’s own little story, and even when your actions should cause reactions from people, they don’t, at least not till the end game on the Isle of Spears. Harmony Island. This place sucks. It’s the second island in the chain, and it has the worst put together story. I complained above about the lack of connection between islands, and this one is the worst for that. Heck, there are just sometimes here were it feels like you should be able to do things, like talk down the island’s rebels or the like, and the game straight up says no. And then you get the sides here. Help the rebels means leaving the roaming monsters that no one likes. Help the shapers means leaving Diwaniya with his broken mental state. This game does the least to justify why you’re so important. No, really, you have almost nothing here to make you special. You’re not the only shaper on the islands as in 1 and 2, where even the few shapers that where there sat in cities and never moved. Here, there’s several shapers moving around, but they never seem to get anything done. Heck, only once do you even find on to help you out, on Dhonal’s Island, and that was Erika, who then vanishes after this, and never appears again. She should have been the one sent to Gull Island, not you, as she was already fully trained. More about this in the Remake Point. The Rebellion is at its weakest justification here. Even in games 1 and 2 those siding against the shapers are given good reasons, and actually made sympathetic. Here, they’re straight up terrorists, and while that makes sense, given their actions, they’ve done too much bad to get my sympathy. Worse, they have exactly one normal human in their bunch, everyone else is a shaper or mage they got to join them. Really makes them feel off putting to me. Remake Points Fix Harmony Island. Literally, that’s a point here, but the story there has a lot of stuff to fix. I suggested in another topic on how to do a few things, but a major one is either make Lankan more sympathetic(Seriously, he hit someone, and then ran off rather than face punishment), or make Diwaniya less so(A put upon guy who’s doing his best in what was supposed to be a make work assignment turned wrong). I have some more suggestions for doing it, but really, just make it happen somehow. Greta and Alwan, allow us to make them stay til the end of Gull Island, if not beyond. Especially with Greta, but even in a way with Alwan, you should be able to convince them, with a high enough leadership, to stay with you. Not only are they good combat companions, but it would allow more interaction with them. For instance, with Alwan, you can claim you’re assisting the rebellion to get closer to the leaders, a real Agent sort of tactics. With Greta, you can just point out how the rebellion isn’t helping anyone but themselves, make her doubt that these people are anything but selfish. Give more reason why the Shapers are sending small forces, i.e. just the player character. A good for instance here would be for Rahul is that there literally are no boats left. When you make it to the dock, there’s only one ship, and it’s got a spell on it that makes it so only the weaker shapers, meaning the students, can use it. There, now there’s a reason why you are alone there. Just an odd thing to note, and something I want to comment on here, as it comes up in discussions of game 3. In this one, you find several times, promising to help people not only annoys Alwan, but also lessens your loyalty to the shapers. The reason for this is interesting, and one I had a thought on in later replays: If a Shaper promises something, it happens. No ifs, ands, or buts, if a Shaper says something is going to happen it is. That’s why Alwan gets mad at you for promising things. Oh, he wants you to do them, no question, but not promise to do them, as it means you have to, without reservation. It also causes you to look more rebellious, as you’re willing to follow orders of non-shapers. Geneforge 4(My personal least favorite) Pros The most well connected story of them all. Everything is well setup, with lots of foreshadowing of events. Characters will make offhand mentions of things that become important points later. Monarch, the Drakon’s Scheme, just about every major point is talked about long before it becomes important. Miranda, Greta, and even Alwan to a lesser extent get more than enough screen time to really flesh them out, and make them real characters. They each justify their existence, and really bring a sense of self to the factions that they don’t have in the other games in series. This is probably the fairest balance between the Shapers and the Rebellion in terms of the story. You learn more motivations for the rebels than just power from the people, or killing the shapers from the creations. Also, the Shapers come across as more totalitarian than before. In some ways justified, but still, they’re much dirtier, and not the only people bringing order anymore, as they were in the first three games. Every section is very well set, with the biomes here connecting in logical ways. Extremely well done there, and really gives each section of the story its own feel. The factions feel different. As you can only support one side or the other, your rewards are locked in, and each one gives you something for finishing major quests, usually something special, and just having them means you might base part of your build off them, giving each faction a different play style. Cons Invincible enemies. These do not exist, or do so in only small ways in the previous three games, and even in the final game, they’re never so blatant as they are here. This is, of course, because the story has to have them survive til the end, but lacking the justification of others, they feel cheap. Heck, game 3 let you kill Hoge early, even in the school(Though there’s no way you can win that without cheat), so the lack of ability to do the same here feels off. The Shaper Camp. This area feels like it was a chekhov's gun that failed to fire. In games 2, 3, and 5 there are testing areas, ones with places you’re not supposed to go yet, but can get some nice rewards when you’re stronger combat wise later. It felt, especially given the guard outside Southforge’s lines, that the camp was being setup for the same, but it never happens. Worse, it infinitely respawns enemies, which, while I’ll allow it in border forts, makes no sense here. As stated above, it just feels off. While the plot is well set up, the pieces don’t always connect as well as they could. Now, this is because it can’t always insure you’ve saved certain people, like the caravan from Southforge, but still, it really does feel like you should encounter these people later. My biggest one are the people in the Safehouse. Your told directly that they want to leave, but they never do, even if you kill all three guardians. Monarch feels incomplete. Not just because you never learn his origin, but then there’s the option at the end of his fight. You can let him go, without demanding to know his story(Mind, he could lie, but it would have been nice to be given the option). Here, he’ll just say he’ll go bother the Shapers, and you don’t lose reputation with them if you allow it(At least I don’t think so, it has been a while). I don’t think there’s an equivalent option for the Rebellion, like recruiting him to bother them, or capturing him for them. It’s odd. Once you’re locked into an ending, it’s very hard to change, and that’s a shame because once I hit the end of the Rebel storyline, I really want to change. The Drakon’s plan, even according to the character, is just a larger scale version of Monarch’s, and that’s an awful thing. Especially since not only did we see how bad that was, but we’re then told that there’s no other options, when you could have been kicking the shapers butts up and down the provinces. The final battles. The battle at the Unbound area is different depending on if you’re a shaper or a rebel. I know this is because of it being a game, but it feels cheap when the game hits you with all these defenses if you’re playing a shaper, but then you have almost none of them if you’re a rebel. Neither Cons nor Pros Shotwell and Khur, interesting idea here. One for each faction, and so much like Greta and Alwan, giving little story tidbits and just some extra muscle for areas you go to. I find their inclusion a bit confusing, as both will join you only for a single province, before falling away. For their own reasons, of course, but still, I’m not sure how to feel about them, I just think they deserve a mention. Remake Points Fewer invulnerable enemies. I know it only happens a few times, but either make them a cutscene completely, like have Alwan leaving the keep when you meet him, like with Miranda and the creations at the checkpoint, or just something to keep me from noticing he’s invincible. More ending options. While game 3 gave us two endings, game 4 gives two and a half, when it really should be giving four and a half. One ‘win’ ending for each side, one ‘neutral’ ending, and then the Trakovite ending. In this case, for the shapers, expand it a bit. We merely have to pick if we want to open the gates out of Gray Ghost to open an escape route early. It will give them more warning we’re coming, making more forces, and giving you the current ending fight to win. If you just go straight after them, you fight a much smaller force instead, as the attack is so sudden. Mind, now you don’t escape, and while the rebellion dies, so do you and Alwan. In the rebels case, the neutral ending is the current one. For the win ending, you have to go assault the shaper strongholds on your side of the continent. Specifically Rivergate Keep, and the Shaper Camp, with a few optional targets that will help you in the final assaults by gaining more npc allies. Upon beating the camp, you’re told you won the war because most of the more proactive shapers were in that camp, and without them, eventually the sheer weight of the Rebellion won the war. Geneforge 5 Pros Difficulty level does the most to change the play experience here. In the previous games, it really only had an effect on the damage formulas, making you hit harder and enemies hit softer. Here, it controls the enemy levels directly, and that has a lot of major differences on them, allowing them to hit more, and more powerfully. Really good job here. Lots of options, and lots of ways to damage enemies. You can win the whole game only killing a few guys now, especially as even a few points in stealth allows me to seemingly sweep invisibly through certain areas. I really like that. Combat options are expanded, and now, as there are spells for all damage types, and more importantly at least one enemy in the game resist each damage type, you’re more varied in your combat. Thanks to the way Shaping and Spells work, it never feels wasted when you get more power. Cons The images. A weird thing to bring up, but in the other games, you mostly got unique images in the beginnings and endings. Here, those loading images you see, yeah, those are the ones you’re going to see for the endings too. It makes them feel less special, and worse, due not only to repeating on loading screens, but most of the endings themselves using the same ones, it feels like there’s few differences between them. Heck, that farm village scene is used in all five endings, regardless of who you helped. Pacing. In the opposite way of game 2 though. Wherein game 2’s paces was bad because it constantly had to repeat things, just to make sure you didn’t miss them by skipping around the map, here it’s because nothing repeats. Every story is unique, and the details, even if you find out there’s stories there, aren’t told til you arrive. Like the Dera Reaches. You know there’s something weird going on, but you learn nothing about what exactly until you’re already in the middle of it. Very few stories connect. Not quite as bad as game 1, but honestly, closer to that than any of the others. None of the plots connect here, even when it feels like they should. Bennhold for example. He is a major bandit, somehow always raiding shapers(Even one of the guards, I think, says he’s been doing this since before the war), but we never really find out how, and you just kill him. It’s the end of a questline, true, but nothing comes of it. You kill him, and it’s over. The Final Battles don’t work for some factions. There’s two of them, and they seem tailored to two factions, specifically the Rebel and Alwan endings for the fight against the Council and Ghaldring respectively. The fight doesn’t work for the Trakovites, Taygen, or Astoria’s factions though. For them it actually feels antithetical, as for the Trakovites they’re trying to end shaping, or at least get it restricted, and by doing this, they’re returning the Shapers to power. Taygen, well if his Purity Agent doesn’t work on the Drakons, then it’s worthless. And Astoria just killed the leader of the other side during a peace talk. I hope that shows in brief why I feel the way I do about them. The faction stories aren’t well written. So many of them are on the same maps, but in a lot of cases, the missions themselves seem to prove the faction wrong. The Rebels can’t win without your help, Astoria really doesn’t want peace, she’s just tired of fighting, and the Trakovites are focusing solely on the Shaper lands, because they’ve got a deal with the Rebels to do so, showing how far they’ve fallen from their precursors in game 4. Again, Alwan and the Rebel stories mostly work, which leads me to think they were written first. The Nodye Coast and other such areas are on the map, but unreachable. Not really that big a con, but they’re built up so much, it feels like they were going to be included at one point and then cut. Remake Points Biggest one, take two of the factions out. The Trakovites and Taygen specifically. Fold them into the other stories. Trakovites instead of being hypocrites, go to being the Rebel side of the peace storyline, setting up the meetings and stuff, and helping Astoria. Taygen and Rawal go from Council members, to just Shaper Lords, like what Rahul was in game 3, with both being under Councilors, Alwan and Astoria respectively. With that done, you can use their stories to expand the other plots. In this case, Rawal is a schemer, and actually threatens Astoria a time or two, with you being someone he got via the more ‘underworld’ sort of connections. His experiments are now tolerated because she can’t expose him without doing damage to her cause, and so he’s allowed to be his jerky self. Taygen keeps much of his story, but now has Alwan breathing down his neck, trying to stop him from finishing the agent, which is a bad end if you do release it, similar to the ending with Rawal. In this case, however, you have to assist some of Alwan’s agents in putting down the rebellions in the camps that have gone down, but then escorting them out of camps that are still up. Showing his iron fisted mercy. For the Rebels, keep them the way they are, but add some to both Alwan and Ghaldring. In this case, Alwan’s Pride, and Ghaldring’s ambition. Both have a lot of both, and certain actions you do raise or lower them. For Alwan, things like killing/capturing Bennhold and showing the ‘superiority’ of shaper law makes him proud to be a shaper. Ghaldring meanwhile has ambitions to become a new lord at the end of the rebellion, and if you help him, your star will rise, even as he goes iron fisted on everyone. Killing his rivals, allowing him to take credit for your victories, etc. cause his Ambition to rise. Give two variations to the three endings, with different images to go along with them, though each faction gets similar ones. For Alwan, if you get his Pride up enough, he joins you, in Shade Form, in the final battle, becoming a very powerful NPC, but also taking some of your other reinforcements away, to attack other points. Ghaldring meanwhile will only join the assault on the Citadel if he’s going to be crowned king at the end of it all, and is likewise a powerful NPC, but one that turns away a few others via his presence. For the Peace Faction, you get two final battles, a choice. Assist the Rebels coming down the valley from the north side of the Citadel, or assist the Shapers coming up from the south. From the north, you run into Alwan’s people, who try to block you, regardless of the peace process, and you can talk them down with a high enough leadership. From the south, three named Drakons, the Blazes, and an Unbound are waiting for you. You can take control of the Unbound, if your leadership is higher than their’s, and have it help you kill them. After all that, the ending varies if Alwan or Ghaldring was there, or which route you took to the final conference, as you assisting one side gives them the better position. Nothing too extensive changes, just who’s in charge after everything's said and done. Anyway, that took a lot longer to write than I thought it was, but I think I got everything out. Tell me what your thoughts are, where I’m wrong, or where I’m right. I look forward to hearing from you all.
  11. Wish I'd seen this topic when it first started, but still, better late to the party than never, as I too have some thoughts on how I'd improve game 3. Not from a gameplay perspective, as I do think it's a well designed game, and wouldn't change much there, but from a plot one. 1) Change the Harmony Island plot to make Lankan more sympathetic. Alter the backstory so that instead of him hitting the Shaper who's name I can't spell, the Shaper hit him. Not in a malicious way, no, just in a way that makes sense. For instance, the Shaper is dealing with creations that he's just starting to have trouble controlling. The problem has only been going on a few days, but with so many people killed, Lankan wants to know what the Shaper is doing about it, being the self appointed leader. He walks up to the Shaper, who when he gets enraged after all the demands, yells at Lankan, who tries to grab him. In response to the 'threat, the battle beta that the Shaper was working on moves. Now, the Shaper admits, he could have stopped it with a thought, but instead he allows the Beta to hit Lankan, not hard enough to break bones, but enough to send him into a heap. Lankan, recovering from the blow, is healed by the Shaper, who simply orders him away, telling him he's busy. Lankan, after seeing that he's healed, declares the Shaper tried to kill him for speaking up, and when the Shaper protests, Lankan decides to attack him in fact. The hit is fast enough that the Shaper and the creations can't react, but when they start to come after him, Lankan flees. Suddenly he's able to say the Shaper attacked him first, while everyone with loyalty to the Shapers says he brought it on himself on hearing the full story. He then marches off, bringing people with him into the swamp. 2) Allow for you to expose Lankan to his followers. Not just in telling the full story of what happened above, but actually able to talk to them about how the person Lankan wants help from, is in fact the same one who created the rogues. Then you can have a big conversation wherein everyone is yelling at him, and he protests that they need the power to protect themselves. About how the actions of the Rebels have only proved the Shapers don't care about them. You can then, with a high enough leadership, get the swamp dwellers to turn on him, either violently or peacefully. In the former, they tear him limb from limb, and go back to their homes, horrified by what they did. In the later, they leave him alone in the camp, with Norrell convincing the Shaper(I know his name starts with a D), to declare their living in the swamp like that punishment enough. 3) The Third Island needs more events. Or rather, it needs more connectivity between events, with the western half of the island actually controlled by the Rebellion. None of what it is now, wherein the Rebels are just disrupting things, but instead them trying to create more areas like on Gull Island. Free Cities, out of Shaper Control. Just a town or two, showing them tending to the serviles and humans they'd freed would be enough to garner sympathy from some people, maybe even have a servile hospital for those who had been left behind, front and center. Putting their best foot forward as it was, before Gull Island shows their darker side. 4) Give more characters screen time. There's people like Erika who is in the camp and needs your help dealing with the disruption, and then she herself comes to help deal with the creator. People like that fleshed out a bit more would work. Maybe she's one of the people in that Fort your arrive on Island Three that you get to talk to, a shaper coming to rest and resupply at one of the few safe havens, able to show their human side as she helps heal some of the more distressed creations, and even the people, but then shows her devotion to the shaper cause when you meet her on the road. She's cornered a servile, and you only get to watch as she dominates the rebelling creation, and then absorbs it after asking it questions. 5) Open up the Isle of Spears a bit more. Due to the way it works, if you're pro-rebel, you'll only see a small part of the island, as the rest is forbidden to you. Worse the parts you do see seem to paint the rebels in an awful light, showing how far down they're willing to go to win, and that what they're fighting for isn't even freedom, it's merely to change whose on top. Gull Island shows pretty much the same thing, but here it just confirms those suspicions, and it really takes all my sympathy for them away. Instead of showing them being jerks to each other, maybe show individual settlements you can visit, oh, and remember to include some normal humans in the mix too. As it is, the rebels in game 3 have only one or two humans in their ranks, with the rest being Shapers(Arguably not normal humans), and creations. Show us the people who are so fed up with the Shapers now, that they've thrown their lots in with these monster.
  12. Okay, I booted the games up, wanting to play them again to help me write a bit of fanfiction(Geneforge Crossover), but found to my dismay that the games are acting funny. I looked through a few help topics, but most were older, or their problem was more extensive then my own, so I wasn't sure if they would work. In this case, I'm having an issue only with the Menu, with the settings and everything. Events pop up just like they're supposed to, and the area load times are not bad enough to be outside my memory of what they were from my previous playthrus, though the exit might be a bit more delayed, not by much. Just the Escape Menu, which can take up to 5 seconds to pop up. Is this the same problem as others have, or is this something different?
  13. I always saw it more as a 'they had the designs laying around, but didn't use them until pushed'. Remember, games 1-3 are in isolated areas. A secluded Isle, a valley cut off from the rest of the continent by high mountains, and finally the Archipelago which was described by almost everyone as the ass end of nowhere, which made it a good place to train new shapers, because if they got ahead of themselves and made something uncontrollable, it was isolated, and not a threat to others. Game 4 and 5 though are at the shapers door, with people pressing them harder and harder, so of course they bring all their guns to bear. Remember also, until 2, all the creations had a purpose outside of battle(Not that we used them for such, but then, it's a game, and you don't need workers). Fyora: Easy to shape, good training for newbies, and also can serve as both pets and attack dogs. Roamers: Scouts and finders, able to move in ways others aren't, I seem to remember someone describing them as fast as well. Drayk: Banned creations, but intelligent, probably meant to be leadership for when a shaper isn't around. Thahd: General Purpose worker, easy to make, stronger than a servile, but stupider too. Use for manual labor. Clawbugs: Diggers and otherwise good at construction/deconstruction, useful for building new labs and facilities. Battle Alpha: Despite the name, they're basically stronger versions of the Thahd, and can be used as such, when one thahd isn't enough, make an alpha instead. Artilia: Like the Fyora, usually the second creation you learn, simple and easy to make, but different skills are required. Vlish: Distance extender for control and command. Glaahk: Hmm....no idea what non-combat purpose, but then, maybe they could just be used as guards, to protect your stuff, or protect you from an experiment gone wrong. Strong acids to break down something before it grows out of control sort of things, basically trashmen for the Shapers. Mind, these are just my own thoughts on the matter.
  14. I made a whole big topic on what I would have done with the endings, along with a few other things, but as for the question this topic proposes, I will agree. Due to the other games being more about what you do to shape the world, and game 5 being more about the world itself, the endings feel lackluster at best. I will add that the endings don't really have nearly enough variation to them. I understand that there is a budget for time and money that can be used, but it really made the endings feel....samey compared to previous games. Game 1 you got three very different endings, and several variations off those. Game 2, it was moved up to 4 endings, and again, variations. Game 3 had only 2 endings, but they were so different in tone, and the fights to get up there were so different, that it felt even more diverged than previous. Game 4 upped the ending count to 3, but again, altered the circumstances enough they they felt different. Game 5....well, it really only has 2 endings, fight the shaper council, or fight the drakon for one of 4 different reasons. After that, you get a short text recap that is decent, but has far too many repeated parts between the endings, even if you take the fighting shaper council which still ends similarly. Now, I understand why this happened, again, Jeff wanted us to know there was peace, at long last, but it kind of made that peace feel hollow.
  15. I will simply say here, I forgive game one it's world building being a bit less than perfect. While Jeff probably spent a long time on it, along with the rest, it would have been a heck of an undertaking, and most of the game still worked well. For the rest of those question, most got some explanations down the line, and while Geottsch was just insane by that point, considering some of his own lines and his ending. As for game 2....I never found this to be true. Remember, as I said above, I tended to focus on combat powers and then usually on Shaping. My standard tactic was go in, make 7 of my then best Creation, and send them in to cause havoc. If they died in battle, make more, if I ran out of Essence, or the enemies grew too close to me, run away, go to town to recover, then return and repeat. This strategy saw me through games 1-4 with little to no trouble even on Torment. Game 5 rebalanced a lot of things, especially magic and shaping, which forced me to lower the difficulty to easy. Anyway, because of this, I tend to plow through maps at a fairly good clip, never risking death too much. With that in mind, I was always interested in the little things in Game 2, the touches to the world, and all the people I could talk to, as well as places to explore. Heck, the story even made my important make sense, as there were very few shapers(I counted 10+ total real shapers in the valley besides you. The three in the shaper camp, the two guys you came to meet, one or two in the wasteland settlement's keep(One might be, or might be an outsider who takes care of creations), that lady living alone in the early woods, and the botanist with her seeds, and the two working with the awakened(One in their main town, one in the research facility). Any others seem to be Canister heads instead of real shapers.) I was also still motivated by hatred of the Takers from game one, and the knowledge that they seemed to be the aggressors here as well, even the Barzites were just sending probing attacks, whereas the Takers were sending full raiding parties, and in some cases they were just breaking stuff to do so, with no real thought given to it. Because of this I had plenty of reasons to want to go kill their leaders, even more when I talked to them, and found them more arrogant than any shaper I had yet met. Though I will agree, probably the weakest true Ending in the series. Even endings where you'd heavily modded yourself but joined the Shapers tended to be more upbeat and less about how these jerks had lied to your face about what they were promising you.
  16. That might work too, adding some 'Special' attack sort of things(Like say, give the Abilities of a Guardian to regenerate HP naturally, or a Legend of Zelda style sword beam every time you swing your blade). Still, I was trying to think of how to make the mundane guardians and others better, rather than just the magical upgrades of the others. As for the third level creations, remember, they require a maxed out second level creation, so they would balance out mostly by the fact that the player would need to invest more points in EP raising stats and abilities than otherwise, leaving the player themself as a load for their powerful, and very much singular, creation. This would be the balance as I see it, with you, the shaper themself, basically being the single point of failure, and having to run away from basically every combat threat. Had to reload the game to find out what you were talking about, but once I saw what map it was, I did remember. I must comment, I enjoyed that one for the most part, only getting frustrated because the baddies kept running around the map, rather than coming at me, which these would do, as this is the final battle, and they'd be on the defensive, rather than attacking. Still, my build focused more on AoE attacks(Eyebeasts for the win), and I can see why others would prefer not to. Though remember, that was the Bad end for that story, and hopefully one you'd realize is not the proper way to do things. As for the Perfected creation level, I see that as something only the PC could do. It would explain in the later 3 titles why you're so special compared to everyone else. Heck, you could even have some people comment on how it's a special skill, to enhance what you make, that is rare for any shaper. It would explain why Lord whatshisface from the 3rd island in 3 is so willing to send a barely trained apprentice on a dangerous mission, and why the rebellion is so willing to make you their champion, when they have other lifecrafters. And in 5 it would explain why Rhawl was so focused on you, as this ability is quite powerful.
  17. Arem Blade or something. He was a taker in the first game. No description is given of him there. In game 2 he's the one you go to for your First Loyalty quest for the Takers(He tells you to kill another faction's leader), and is described as old. Nothing beyond that, but considering statements made, that puts him at around 40-60 for a servile. Third game he's in that town on Island 4 that the serviles/creations have taken over. You can only talk to him if you're a rebel, and he'll tell you about the past games in vague terms, while being described as at least a century old. Fourth game he's in the Rebel Town in the Fourth Zone(After the Fens but before the Mountains, Brenhold I think). Again, described as at least a century. Fifth game he's in the Kazg I believe, and once again, he's about a hundred years old, and gives past exposition. So, Game 1: Start date, about 200 years after Geneforge was originally made Game 2: About 20-40 years after game 1 Game 3: About 30-50 years after game 2 Game 4: Stated to be 7 years after game 3(the war is commented by many to be 7 years old, and game 3 is the start of the war) Game 5: About 3 years after game 4(Again, many comments about it's been 10 years since the start of the war, and someone in Alwin's keep comments that it's been 3 years since the Unbound problem began)
  18. Interesting setup. I personally just use an editor program to trade in items at area entrances for Skill/ability points(In games 2 and 3, you can up the Creation Abilities to 50, and that gives them fifty levels. 4 and 5 gain one level for every point in them, though beyond Creation Abilities scores of 100 they become unstable and crash the game)
  19. More to the point, I think the rebels might be having trouble making Lifecrafters. Remember, it's only been three years, but I doubt the Drakon's would really allow the Northforge to reactivate, considering they're going to a lot of trouble to make that site secure as the source of the unbound. Having random 'untrustworthy' people stomping around would make them less than happy. Also, let's face it, making lifecrafters with the Geneforge is rather a bad case of roulette. Of the 5 Geneforge users you meet in game 4, only one isn't crazed.(The spy playing at being a fisherman in the first area). Two of the remaining are slightly unhinged, and beginning to have bouts of megolomania(The Canister distributer in the Safehouse in Area 2, the lifecrafter in the rebel camp), one is just crazy(Shalai in the first area), and then there's your PC, who constantly has to deal with anger issues, and recognizes that something is wrong. So it does make sense that they're having personnel problems. The Drakon's are probably using the Unbound as often as possible to keep their stranglehold on power.
  20. Just finished my second replay of G5(Got all endings the first time, but decided to replay the whole series for the lols), and had some ideas on how to improve either gameplay or story, just in case the games ever get a remake(And games 1 and 2 are dying for one, especially their inventories), or even another game in the set. Both are things I would like to see, and as such, figured I'd get some of these ideas out there. First, some gameplay enhancements. The PC in game 5, especially compared to his fore-bearers is rather weak gameplay wise. I mean, I remember eventually being able to steam roll certain maps in games 1-4, but here, I can barely beat even mid game challenges with an end game character, and some of those end game challenges are darn near impossible on the hardest difficulty. Now, to counter some of these challenges, I think the PC should get some boosts as well. For instance, melee and missile attacks. Right now, the multi attack ability of melee is tied with Quick Action, which makes some sense, but it means that Melee is never quite as good as it should be, IMO. In G5 they 'fixed' this mostly by nerfing Shaping and Spells enough to bring them down to its level, rather than making it strong, which would actually be easy. How would it be easy? Well, just take that multi hit from QA, and instead tie it into the Melee Skill, and give Missile attacks a bit of a boost to their Crit rating(For instance, give the Crit of a missile attack the ability to ignore all defenses and do max damage regardless of everything else). Oh, and make it so Multi attack isn't just once and done, instead have it be a chance of happening that halves every time it does, allowing you to do it theoretically until the target is dead(In reality, probably maxed out at 5 times, if that). Of course, speaking of buffing, something else I noted while replaying is the Spell Levels. Those...don't matter nearly as much as I remember, even in earlier games. For Battle Spells, it's about 1-5 damage boost per level, not exactly big time. For Status(Both Buff and Debuff), the effect is, I think, a few seconds longer for the effect, and for Healing magic, it's the same thing, 1-5 boost to your healing power. Now, I would keep that effect, since it's minor, but add another to it. Any level over the first has the effect of making the spell cost one less Essence point per casting. This would necessitate the raising of Training cost for the spell skills by an order of magnitude(X10), but I think it would give me a reason to go after them. Ability to Poison enemies without taking away from my creations, yes please. Heck, it wouldn't even be that unbalanced, considering the highest cost spells tend to be 10 essence points, and I think the most I ever raised a single spell skill was 6, for Firebolt in G1, it would just give the early-mid game spells a way to stay relevant the entire game. And now we come to my favorite part of the game, and what makes it one of the most unique, Shaping. This is already pretty well balanced, and it shows off both good design, and some real thought put into it. However, there is nothing that can't be improved, at least as long as it isn't Portal, so let's take a look at Shaping. In this, I think the only way that it can be made better is to give it one more level. The Creation's stats are limited by a lot, since you can't just say, make a maxed out strength creation using all your essence. I wouldn't change that, BTW, as that could cause errors in the game. Instead I would suggest something else. All those bulbs/lights on the creation menu for these things. They have a serious diminishing return in the last few, so how's about we enhance those. Namely by allowing better creations if they're all filled in. The way I see this working, if you're making a First Tier creation, it turns into a Second Tier if you give it all the juice(Stated to be an ability only you have, BTW, to make you out to be special). Now, this would be expensive, even with some stat boosts, and you could only make one or two of these at a time, even in the end game. Still, it would allow you to make the Second Tier's without scouring the entire world for trainers/canisters. Of course, if you are willing to go that far, you do get one more enhancement. Namely, a new Third Tier. First were the Basic Creations, Second are the Optimized Creations, and then Third comes the Perfected Creations, all of which have some form of enhancement onto them to make them worth having only a party of one. I see them going like this.(I'm gonna use Tier 1 names for them, since I can't think of stuff to call them otherwise.) Fyora: Faster than normal, having 15 AP at start of combat, and thus, can move twice. Not a big enhancement, but with them having maxed out stats as well, these things are a battering ram. Roamer: Has that Poison Rain Ability as it's base attack. Drayk: Uses an energy attack now, and can 'Surround with lightning' as Energy is less resisted that fire or ice. Kyshakk: I don't use these enough to suggest anything. Any ideas? Drakon: An innate Terror Ability. At the start of every round, anything that is in sight of the Drakon(meaing they can see it) has a chance of being terrified, and running off. This is independent of its own action that round. Thahd: Has a chance to Daze anything it hits. Clawbug: Anything killed by one of these becomes another Clawbug that's AI controlled friendly, for the remainder of the current map. Battle Alpha: Battle Zetta(So Zetta Fast, World Ends With You reference), these things benefit from the whole, multi strike ability, hitting at least twice every time, maybe more if their dex is higher/lady luck is kind. Rotghroth: Anything suffering poison or acid status nearby gives these guys it's HP, implied to be them literally absorbing the rot. War Trall: Also don't use them enough to think of anything. Ideas? Artila: Essence Absorb. Damage done by these creations is given back to you at a 1/10 rating as essence. Vlish: Submission Vlish. These would trade the poison/curse for a Charm to their attack, which flips an enemy to your side, for a set amount of time. Glaahk: Also don't use these enough. And again, ideas? Wingbolt: If they kill something in the round, they get a bonus move. Gazer: Add a charm effect to their Aura attack, making them an enhanced Summoned Vlish Ornk: Two ways to go here, the Ultimate Scout, or the Vaporal Rat. The first is basically, take away their ability to attack, but give them infinite AP, so they can literally go anywhere on the map at any time. The second is a take on something from an early 2000s game called the Bard's Tale. In this, the Ornk's gain a massive boost to attack, something that is either a non-element or otherwise powerful, but are no sturdier than before, meaning they're glass cannons. Since the Ornk canisters are always hard to find(Still haven't found the one in G5 myself, got the ones in all the others, though took a while to figure out how to make one in G4) these aren't going to be too overpowered, especially since those canisters tend to be found near end game anyway. Those are my gameplay enhancement ideas, how's about storyline? Well, for games 1-4 I would just say, make things connect better than they do right now, as some examples. G1: Make it so doing something like resuscitating Mind 4 causes you to sometimes spawn in areas with Friendly Creations nearby. Other ones like that include if you join with a faction you can sometimes get its warriors to help you, and the like. G2: Can't think of a good way to make this one work....hmm....nope, it already connects pretty well. Maybe have something like, if you take both Conduit Shards when you leave the valley while unaligned, you get a special ending where the valley descends into chaos, since no one can finish their project, and the Shapers eventually sweep in and kill them all, at massive cost so you're not as celebrated as if you'd done it yourself. G3: Add some interactions, like on Island 2, if the leader chooses to ignore the fact that Litalia is the one who caused their whole rogue problem, you can then bring it up with someone else in his camp, turning them against him, and driving them away. Also, if named characters leave a map(Like the scouts on Island 3), they should show up at the main bases or camps later. This applies to G4 as well as G3. G4: Have the ability to argue a bit more, or at least call the Drakon's out on their tactic. Heck, offer to lead a charge instead of using the Unbound, and if you helped the Rebels the whole way, give you a better ending, like instead of becoming literal scorched earth terrorists, you turn them into a fortified nation instead, forcing peace. Now, as for G5, the biggest enhancement I can think of storywise is the endings. Namely that the endings are a bit too...general for my taste. Oh, they start off unique and interesting, but most of the endings descend into the same thing. Heck, for the Shaper/Councilor endings, there is no change in them, not really. And with most endings, they say Terrestira returns to normal, or words to that effect, which is literally impossible in two of the five endings, and quite difficult in two of the others. Mind, I understand why this is. Jeff was probably overworking himself just to get this game out as quick as he did, among all the other projects, and it's still not bad, it's even pretty good, but they could have been great with just a little bit of extra effort, and I came up with some ideas on how to make them better. Namely, right now there is no perfect ending, and no bad ending, all have their points. I would say, add 3 variations onto each ending in and of itself, one Good Ending, one Bad Endings, and one Golden Ending. Rawal: For him, just go with what you have now. Add in a bit of variation to it though. Instead of holing up in his mountains, when it seems the Shapers are losing, he offers his Tooled agents as the next step in defending themselves, and for a while, these people who will die if they don't fight to their hardest, do actually seemingly start to win. But then, just before they assault Gazaki, the Drakon's pull a trump card. In canon, they were studying the control tools, and in this case, they learned to turn them on, activating them, and killing everyone with them. It would have a few lines of difference if you yourself got your tool removed, but you'd still get overwhelmed and lose regardless. This would then result in the Shapers losing the war, as there's not a big gap in their lines that the Drakons, having prepared for it, take full advantage of, pounding their way through. BTW, this would all be text, no pictures, just to make you know this was a bad ending no matter what you do. Astoria: Instead of having you go around doing seemingly random or even detrimental things that prove she's wrong, have her send you around to get blackmail material on the Shaper Leaders, and the Rebel Leaders. In doing so you learn not just what their doing wrong, but also what they want, allowing you to use a carrot or stick approach to them. After this, Astoria calls the faction leaders together, and then you get to go around a table, using the info to get what you want. Bad Ending: Blackmail them. This results in them being rather upset with you, and making the peace at best, a temporary thing, as they all chaff under the bindings of their blackmail material, with you never really being safe again. Good Ending: Convincing them to work together to build a better future. Rawal and Gheldring want power, together they can gain it faster than alone. Alwin wants the war to end, and you can literally get the rebels to help him clean up the rogues, while promising not to make more. Taygen is the same as Alwin, the Trakovites would be a non-issue, and Astoria would want the whole thing over and done with. In this ending, you become a major ambassador and are able to power play well in the new world order, but everything is held together in that precarious balance of power, a single major innovation on either side could upset the balance, but for this lifetime at least, there is peace. Golden Ending: The leadership has failed, this war has dragged on far too long, and none of the sides really know what right is anymore. In this ending, with the guards all gone, and just you alone with the leaders, you kill them. This results in you becoming the new leaders, ushering in a new age of peace as the Drakon's respect your power, and the outsiders and Shapers see no real way to dispute that the leadership was corrupt. You slowly build a new order, forcing drastic changes down everyone's throat, sometimes at the point of a blade, but you know the people, having lived among the normal people, the creations, and the Shapers, and know how to get the best results, creating a lasting peace, even after your death. Trakovites: Instead of the rather insane things that Litalia has you do in G5, this time they use the setting a bit better. Namely, you hear throughout the game that the Woods People of the Mera, and the Nomads of the Desert fought the Shapers. In so doing, they designed devices to undo creations, and using their plans and materials, Litalia is going to build a massive version of their device, with you going around to get the stuff needed to make it. This would tail into the Bennhold quest, as he would have the last material, which would be a Resonance Stone, the secret of his success over the Shapers. Taking that from him by force or thought would lead to the end game where you are given the ability to set the power level of the device, which would determine your ending. Bad Ending: In contrast to G4 where you wanted High Power to the Unbound creation facility, this time setting the Disruptor Device to high power causes problems. Namely it causes those with Essence in their bodies to combust. That includes creations, Shapers, and more importantly anything that has been Shaped, including those healed by Shapers, which since that would have been a common request back in the day, means just about everyone. And for those who don't just burn to ash, all standing pools of Essence explode like small scale suns, devastating civilization. Heck, with most of the ecosystem having been designed, like trees and crops, Terrestria itself is now dying. Good Ending: The medium setting on the Device makes it so Essence can't exist in raw state, which kills all Shaping, but it doesn't kill those with Essence in them, so the Shapers and the Drakon's war is forcibly stopped as the normal people whom both sides had ignored, are suddenly thrust into the fore of civilization. With Shaping ended, the people of the continent have to learn whole new ways of doing things, and it results in many deaths, as even the healing magic of the Shapers is taken away. Millions die for their ideals, but there is peace, and in the end, the Trakovites consider that their victory. Golden Ending: The Disruption Device on Low Power causes one of the more interesting endings, as Shaping doesn't die, but it changes forever. In effect, Essence is now hard to control, as using it causes something akin to a buzzing sound in your head. Those who can't focus, or are easily enraged(Shapers like Rawal or Taygen, and basically anyone who used canisters or the Geneforges, which includes you and Litalia), can no longer use their arts. Those who can pierce through the disruption need such focus and skill to do so that they are the type who never act without thought, and those who think through their actions are less likely to be focused on their own personal power, and more on stability and order. This results in a golden age, as the Shaping Arts are taken farther than ever before by those who truly earn the right to use them. Alwin: His mission change from what they are, disrupting the other Councilors or otherwise making his the most visible solution, to just doing what he says he will. You are sent to defend the three forts, which you can do by either raw force, or by repairing defenses, or talking down the attackers. Once all three are secured, Alwin himself, wearing a special suit of armor, leads the assault, finally starting to die just as they reach Gazaki. You are then put in charge for your accomplishments with the forts and with the advancing Shaper forces. With that, you attack the Drakon's citadel, and then have to choose how to deal with the rebellion's core. Kill them all, focus on killing Gheldring, or kill all Drakons. Bad Ending: Killing them all results in the largest melee the series has to offer. Literally as many units involved as can be fit onto the map, with you in the middle of it all, able to turn the tide of battle with Blessings, inspirational speeches, or just plain killing the other guys. Of course, now the rebels know that no quarter will be given, as the Shaper forces advance. This causes them to go even farther in their scorched earth policy. As you move east, you find the lands devastated, and whole areas salted, with nothing growing on them. Finally, when the last rebel falls, all you can do is look around at the burnt husk of a world around you, and ask if it was all worth it. Good Ending: Alwin of course says that if you kill Gheldring, you can end the rebellion. And he's right, this will end the rebellion's ambitions. This leads to a medium sized brawl between you with a few Shaper allies, and Gheldring and a few Drakons. Win and you are treated to an ending where the Rebellion slowly begins to collapse, the Drakons carving their own little kingdoms out of the lands of the Rebellion, each with their own horrors to unleash. However lacking the resources that each had, these kingdoms are overcome one at a time, finally bringing about peace as you subjugated those who had refused to surrender. Golden Ending: You kill all Drakons, leading to a fight between just you and Gheldring, implied that the others are busy elsewhere in the complex hunting down the other drakon, who otherwise would have run when their leader fell. With their downfall, the other rebels realize that its over, and surrender. Thanks to Alwin giving you command, you not only take their surrender, but also force terms on both them and the Shapers, something that Alwin wanted to do for the longest time, showing his morals from G3(Wherein he pointed out that he knew Shaper law wasn't always absolutely right, but that war wasn't the time for moral dilemmas). You basically take Alwin's position as Councilor using the fact that the Rebellion surrendered to you, not the other Shapers, and make the treatment of intelligent creations(Mostly Serviles), much better. This leads to a new golden age for Shapers as they don't have to worry as much about Rogues, and thus have the ability to focus more on their art. Rebels: This would play out very similarly to what it does in canon, except you'd have more help with the assaults as the Rebels wouldn't just send you out to die, especially after that first victory against a Councilor. The big difference would be the Rebellion would have three leaders, Gheldring, Greta, and Mehken, representing the Drakons, the Humans, and the Serviles respectively. Upon getting to the Shaper Citadel in the ending, you get to help one of the three with their plan to end the tyranny of the Council once and for all. Bad Ending: Helping Gheldring would cause the end battle to proceed exactly as it does normally, and once you win a new order is established, with Drakons at the top, and everyone else at the bottom. Not that there are no power struggles, with you becoming a top lieutenant under Gheldring, a position that puts you over even most Drakons. However, the lizards are crueler even than the Shapers in their victory, restricting even breeding among the 'lesser' races, and soon establishing a dynasty that would last until they are toppled, something that, thanks to their ReShaping, will not happen for a long, long time. Good Ending: Helping Greta gets you an ending wherein you basically debate the Councilors to death, meaning you get them to surrender peacefully. This ending would result in the Shapers and the Rebellion splitting the continent in three. The drakons take the center, the Shapers the west, and everyone else the east. The Drakons serve as the so called Wind Guards, keeping the two sides separate, and maintaining their own power base, while the Shapers try to just ignore the loss of more than half their lands. The others build a society without Shaping, based of hard work and mutual trust. Slowly though, the average humans become disenfranchised in all lands, as they aren't Shapers, can't stand up to the Drakons,and are not as strong as the Serviles, who grow smarter with every generation. Greta's morality for the creations dooms humanity itself to a subservient role, but at least there is peace. Golden Ending: Mehkan wants to do something about everyone, and instead of going into the Citadel to fight or to demand surrender, you go back to the town, and rally everyone, Servile, human, and Shaper, to yourself. This cause, the cause of the Rebellion has always been about freedom, but in the end, something corrupted it. Mehkan wants what they wanted even in the beginning, and rallying everyone behind her, with your help, they achieve it, forcing the militants on both sides to lay down their arms when its revealed that she, through her network of fellow spies, controls the food stores of the whole continent, and that all the farmers and other growers stand with them. Together, these normal people and serviles force a truce between the two sides, and create an elected leadership in place of the military ones that had been dominate for ages. And it works, the leaders, driven to help the people, not for personal power, actually start to improve things for everyone, and you and she descend into the shadows, to enjoy this peace you have made. Taygen: His missions work, as does the Purity Agent, so I say leave those alone, but add something to the end, where instead of just pushing the button and getting the ending he wants, you are allowed to alter the Agent, as you are tasked with getting one final ingredient, that you then add. This final part is blood, either from you, from a sample Taygen prepared, or from a Drakon. Bad Ending: Your blood added to the Agent causes it too be a bit less specific in its target. This means that everything that has ever been Shaped, be it through canisters, the art itself, or even just healing, is now dying. You alone are spared as the plague spreads(Your blood as base means the plague is literally part of you now). You are forced to wander the continent as everywhere around you things just fall over dead, sometimes melting before your eyes, and leaving you alone in a blasted wasteland(As stated above, even the ecosystem is Shaped to some degree). Good Ending: Taygen's sample causes all creations to start dying, and only them. The plants stay, something he mentions as one of the goals of his study to make it so they don't devastate the biosphere. And it works. The Agent kills the creations, allowing the Shapers to just make a new generation of them after the plague has died down, and when only the humans of the Rebellion remain, they surrender themselves to the Shaper's mercy. Still, it is remembered that now one of their own has a weapon that can literally reset the board, and as everyone slowly recovers, that knowledge causes them all to sleep a little less well at night. Golden Ending: Using the Drakon sample makes the Plague effect only them, something that kills the Rebellion almost overnight, as their heavy hitters literally drop dead. Taygen, pleased enough with the results, makes sure everyone knows it was your efforts that led to this victory, and you become a celebrated hero, enough that you can get the Rebellion's lands to be more peacefully reintegrated with Shaper society, allowing a more natural union to take place rather than a forced one, and slowly changing the way both sides see each other. You are celebrated as a hero, and life slowly goes back to the way it was before the Rebellion with a few improvements. Those are just some random musings on the subject of the series and how to improve it. Hope you enjoyed reading them.
×
×
  • Create New...