Item properties!

[Celtic Minstrel]

Okay, the next reformatting on the list! Possibly chosen somewhat at random...

 

So, I'd like to add a "missile number" to the item record. This field would be relevant only for missiles, not for targetable special abilities. It wouldn't even be for targetable special abilities that call a special when used, if such a thing is added; in this case one would use a special node to create a missile animation if desired. I also think it would be useful to add a second field to give information for the special ability, though it's probably not necessary.

 

Click to reveal.. (Missile numbers)

This is a list of what I think each missile is.

Code:

0 - acid/poison1 - dart2 - flame3 - arrow4 - arrow 2 (glowing or something)5 - spear/javelin6 - lightning?7 - razordisk?8 - razordisk 2? (I've no idea what this is)9 - ???10- knife11- ???12- rock13- fireball14- summon?15- magic?1000 + x - custom missile graphic (takes 4 slots, with 2 frames in each slot – I think that'd be right, anyway)

 

It might be nice to be able to make a weapon that depends on (for example) Assassination skill or Defence skill rather than Bashing/Edged/Pole Weapons skill.

 

There are two unused slots on the list of item varieties, and even more could be added. Possibilities include Bracelet, Cloak, an additional bow/ammo pair... ideas are welcome. There's also a second shield type. It should be determined exactly how that differs from the first shield type (if at all), and possibly rename it accordingly.

 

Ideas for item flags (ie identified, concealed ability, etc) are welcome. I don't have any ideas myself.

 

Item graphic 64 (the duplicate mushroom graphic) will be deprecated and possibly replaced. Item graph 95 is blank – should it be filled, or is it useful to have a blank item graphic? Additional graphics could be added if we felt like it. Custom graphics will now be 1000 + slot rather than 150 + slot.

 

And last but not least, the special abilities.

Click to reveal.. (Current ability list)

Code:

(weapon abilities) 1 - Flaming Weapon 2 - Demon slayer   3 - Undead slayer 4 - Lizard slayer 5 - Giant slayer 6 - Mage slayer 7 - Priest slayer 8 - Bug slayer 9 - Acidic Weapon10 - Soulsucker11 - Drain Missiles12 - Weak Weapon13 - Causes Fear14 - Poisoned Weapon(general abilities)30 - Protection31 - Full Protection32 - Fire protection33 - Cold protection34 - Poison protection35 - Magic protection36 - Acid Protection37 - Skill38 - Strength39 - Dexterity40 - Intelligence41 - Accuracy42 - Thieving43 - Giant Strength44 - Lighter object45 - Heavier object46 - Occasional Bless47 - Occasional Haste48 - Life Saving49 - Prot. from petrify50 - Regenerate51 - Poison Augment52 - Disease Party53 - Will54 - Free Action55 - Speed56 - Slow Wearer57 - Undead Protection58 - Demon Protection59 - Humanoid Protection60 - Reptile Protection61 - Giant Protection62 - Disease Protection(nonspell usable)70 - Poison Weapon71 - Curse/Bless User   72 - Cure/Cause Poison   73 - Speed/Slow User   74 - Add/Lose Invulnerability   75 - Add/Lose Magic Resistance   76 - Add/Lose Web77 - Cure/Cause Disease   78 - Add/Lose Sanctuary   79 - Cure/Cause Dumbfounding   80 - Add/Lose Martyrs Shield   81 - Cure/Cause Sleep   82 - Cure/Cause Paralysis   83 - Cure/Cause Acid   84 - Bliss85 - Add/Lose Experience86 - Add/Lose Skill Pts.87 - Add/Lose Health88 - Add/Lose Spell Points89 - Doom90 - Light91 - Stealth92 - Firewalk93 - Flying(spell usable)110- Flame111- Fireball112- Firestorm113- Kill114- Ice Bolt115- Slow116- Shockwave117- Dispel Undead118- Dispel Spirit119- Summoning120- Mass Summoning121- Acid Spray122- Stinking Cloud123- Sleep Field124- Venom125- Shockstorm126- Paralysis127- Web Spell128- Strengthen Target129- Quickfire130- Mass Charm131- Magic Map132- Dispel Barrier133- Ice Wall134- Charm130- Antimagic Cloud(reagents)150- Holly/Toadstool   151- Comfrey Root152- Glowing Nettle153- Crypt Shroom/Wormgrass154- Asptongue Mold155- Ember Flowers156- Graymold157- Mandrake158- Sapphire159- Smoky Crystal160- Resurrection Balm161- Lockpicks(missile abilities)170- Returning171- Lightning172- Exploding173- Acid174- Slay Undead175- Slay Demon176- Heal Target

 

I have tons of ideas for new item abilities, so instead of listing them all I'll just give a few examples:

• Item call special node (nonspell usable)
• Targetable item call special node (spell usable; the node will only be called if the targeted space does not have a Target Node on it)
• Invisibility (makes wearer invisible while equipped; may be hard to implement though)
• Martyr's shield (while equipped, treat as if the wearer has the Martyr's Shield status effect)
• Many existing abilities have obvious extensions; for example, there are Slayer abilities for some species but not others; not all status effects and damage types are covered in the weapon abilities and possibly elsewhere; some spells do not have an equivalent special ability.
• Create/destroy crate/barrel
• Summon species (summons a random creature of a particular species; for example, a random reptile)
• Create Item

More ideas are of course welcome.

[The Almighty Doer of Stuff]

You can equip two shields (and no weapon) if you use one shield of each shield type. I don't know if any scenarios use the second one, though.

[Celtic Minstrel]

I know the bladbase doesn't use the second shield type (Chokboyz checked that out).

 

But does the second shield type have the same behaviour? That's what I need to determine.

[*i]

Just a comment with adding item abilities. Several scenarios were designed with certain assumptions in mind. One thing to avoid is the create/destroy barrel use because it can break existing scenarios. The alternative is to make certain items with certain abilities non-transferrable between scenarios.

[Celtic Minstrel]

Originally Posted By: *i

One thing to avoid is the create/destroy barrel use because it can break existing scenarios.

How so?

Originally Posted By: *i

The alternative is to make certain items with certain abilities non-transferrable between scenarios.

Well, I don't like this idea, but if it's truly necessary it could be done fairly easily.

[*i]

At least in At the Gallows, I put a couple puzzle dungeons that would seriously be broken if that item was used. I made an assumption about things when I did the scripting that would be violated.

 

I do think anything new that potentially perturbs the behavior of if-then tests for nodes should be non-transferrable.

[Celtic Minstrel]

...That doesn't quite answer my question, but anyway...

 

 

Destruction of crates and barrels is already possible, by pushing them into water or by taking a conveyor into them.

 

 

However, come to think of it, such an item ability would be very redundant when you consider that the same effect could be achieved with a targetable call special node ability... and of course, any item that calls a special node would not be able to be taken out of the scenario anyway.

 

So let's not add that ability.

[*i]

More specifically, the mode of destruction of the town's only barrel at the only place for it to be destroyed triggers a series of nodes that assumes a certain spatial location of the party. If the party is not there, the dungeon becomes impossible to compete.

 

I agree with your conclusion.

[Celtic Minstrel]

Okay, regarding Spell Usable abilities. First, I'd like to call the "Targetable Use" instead, which would mean that Magic Map is shunted into the other usable category (which would be "Non-targetable Use").

 

Next, my first though was, there should be an item ability for every spell a player can cast. I quickly realized, however, that this was a bad idea, and decided to narrow it down to encompass every targetable spell a user can cast. However, that's still not entirely satisfactory. My thought is, it would be nice to be able to create a scroll for every existing spell, without having redundant item abilities.

 

For reference, here's a list of all the spells, sorted by the type of target they require.

Click to reveal.. (All spells)

*indicates that a non-targetable ability already exists which replicates the spell.

Spells requiring no target

Light*

Long Light*

Magic Map*

Stealth*

Flight*

Location

Minor Manna

Light (priest)*

Detect Life

Manna

Firewalk*

Word of Recall

 

Spells targeting a PC

Minor Haste*

Strength*

Identify

Envenom

Haste*

Resist Magic*

Poison*

Minor Bless*

Minor Heal*

Weaken Poison*

Sanctuary*

Symbiosis

Bless*

Cure Poison*

Awaken*

Heal*

Cure Paralysis*

Cure Disease*

Restore Mind*

Remove Curse

Martyr's Shield*

Cleanse

Major Heal*

Raise Dead

Revive

Hyperactivity

Destone

Resurrect

Avatar

Major Blessing

Protection

Major Cleansing

 

Spells affecting the whole party

Avatar

Major Haste*

Minor Heal All*

Cure All Poison*

Bless Party*

Mass Sanctuary*

Heal All*

Revive All

 

Spells targeting a single space

Spark

Scare

Scry Monster

Minor Poison

Flame

Slow

Dumbfound

Summon Beast

Unlock

Fear

Ice Bolt

Capture Soul

Simulacrum

Dispel Barrier

Fire Barrier

Major Poison

Kill

Paralyze

Daemon

Mindduel

Force Barrier

Quickfire

Turn Undead

Ritual - Sanctify

Stumble

Curse

Wound

Summon Spirit

Move Mountains

Charm Foe

Disease

Holy Scourge

Smite

Dispel Undead

Summon Guardian

Ravage Spirit

 

Area Spells

Flame Cloud

Goo

Stinking Cloud

Conflagration

Sleep Cloud

Fireball

Web

Fire Storm

Shockstorm

Antimagic Cloud

Forcefield

Flamestrike

Divine Thud

Dispel Field

Dispel Fields

 

Rotatable Area Spells

Wall of Force

Wall of Ice

Wall of Blades

 

Multitarget Spells

Weak Summoning

Flame Arrows

Venom Arrows

Summoning

Spray Fields

Major Summoning

Death Arrows

Sticks to Snakes

Summon Host

 

Radiating Spells

True Sight

Slow Group

Group Fear

Shockwave

Mass Paralysis

Curse All

Shatter

Mass Charm

Pestilence

Protective Circle

I think that the spells requiring no target should correspond to a non-targetable ability. Ditto with the spells that target a PC or the whole party, though a few of these present problems.

 

The first problem spell is Symbiosis – as I recall, you target a PC, who is healed at the expense of draining some health from the caster. For the spell, it's easy to distinguish between target and caster; however, for an item, the target is either the person who uses it or the whole party. So who's the caster? The obvious choice would be the person who uses it, but there's a problem here: if the target and the caster are the same, it's just an ordinary healing spell. (Can you even cast it on yourself in the game?)

 

The next problem spells are the resurrection spells: Raise Dead, Resurrect, and Destone. If the ability is set to affect only the user, it'll be impossible to use since the user needs to be dead in order to gain any benefit from it. If the ability is set to affect the whole party, it would be much better than the actual spell. And neither way would actually replicate the spell effect.

 

These two problems could be solved by showing the Select PC dialog when the item is used; however, there are no other item abilities that do this.

 

For the spells that target a single space, a targetable ability could easily be created if it doesn't already exist. The only thing to watch out for here is that any spell that summons a single creature (Daemon, Guardian, Summon Spirit) could be implemented with the existing Summon ability. In addition, Sticks to Snakes could be implemented with the existing Mass Summon ability.

 

There are problems here too, though. The Mindduel spell would seem to require its caster to have actual spell points. If there's a Mindduel item ability, the user may not have spell points.

 

The other problem is Capture Soul and Simulacrum. This one isn't as serious; it wouldn't be hard to store captured creatures in the normal soul crystal. But what if there's no creature in the soul crystal? What would a Wand of Simulacrum do then? One could just make it print an error message... or, there could be a single ability encompassing both spells, which allows you to capture one creature and later summon it once.

 

The area target spells don't really have any problems; they could just be added as targetable abilities. Same with the multitarget spells and the rotatable target spells. That leaves the radiating spells. These are spells where you don't choose a target – they affect everyone in a certain radius. Should they be targetable abilities, non-targetable abilities... or, not abilities at all?

 

 

There's one other minor thing here. Some of the Spell Usable abilities do not have exactly the same effect as the corresponding spell – for example, they may affect a smaller or larger area. So, it would seem prudent to allow the radius of an area effect spell to be specified in the item ability. I intend to add an extra field for this sort of thing to go with the ability strength.

[Celtic Minstrel]

Originally Posted By: *i

Might be nice to structure items in such a way that we can link a protect/damage to any arbitrary type. Custom types would need to lose their ability upon leaving the scenario.

That would be difficult, I think. I'm not sure I like the idea of allowing designers to create their own custom types. We'd have to take the items away upon leaving the scenario, and if they're really good items I imagine that would be rather disappointing...

There is one Unused item type. We could make that one customizable, I suppose...

...wait, there's two currently, not one. Still...


There's no good reason to make any additional weapon types. 1H weapon and 2H weapon pretty much covers all possibilities. A way to make an additional bow+arrows type could be nice. But that's not the same as having a customizable type.

[*i]

Sorry for not being clear. What I was getting at is to make item abilities such that we can have items that can do extra damage to or reduce damage from any given race, or cause any status effect.

[Celtic Minstrel]

Oh. I thought I had mentioned that somewhere. I'm certainly planning to do that.

[Celtic Minstrel]

I'm wondering... are any of the Exile 1 item graphics worth swiping?

 

See here. On the first row, there's the gold and the arrows; on the second row, there's that white thing and the shovel/pick; on the fourth row, there's the combined herbs (probably not worthwhile) and some pole weapon. (The halberd on the first line is just the normal one, right?)

 

Also see here. On the first line, there's something between the bow and the halberd, plus the arrow. On the second line, there's a different scroll. On the third line, there's a rather ugly shield.

 

I'd also like to know what some of them are!

[The Almighty Doer of Stuff]

I thought of something last night. It's not immediately necessary since we haven't really been planning new item types as far as I can see, but if we needed an extra slot in the item types (Gold, 1- and 2-handed weapon, Tool, Pants, etc.), we could potentially combine Gold and Food into one type. Right now, the only fields that those two use are Item Level (to determine the default amount of gold or food), Special Class (for instance to see if the gold or food is still on a space with a special node), and potentially Item Treasure Class and Always Identified (I don't know if these work, as I haven't tested them, although I know the only way to assign them to Gold or Food in the original scenario editor is to temporarily change the item to a different item type).

 

Therefore, if we combine them into one type, we can use one of the unused fields as a switch, to determine whether the item is gold or food. Furthermore, the same item type could be used to make picking up an item give you a Special Item, like in Exile 2 with the Red Scroll in the GIFTS lair. I searched for the Red Scroll in my inventory over and over until I realized that picking it up had given me a Red Empire Pass special item instead of an inventory item. Also, if we add the feature back in, the item type could be used to give the party a new quest in the Jobs list.

 

Heck, maybe simply picking up an item could change a stat, or give you a status effect as well, depending on how you set the switch.

[Celtic Minstrel]

This is a good idea. I'll point out that we can always add as many item types as we wish – there's no need to combine two item types to free up a slot. (We'd just have to edit the dialog to add more LEDs... which will be easy once the new dialog engine is finished.)