The warrior challenge.

[Delicious Vlish]

After having played through the game a couple of times now, and having a bit of extra time, I have decided to take up a challenge.

 

I am going to run a warrior through. He will be pro-shaper. He will never use canisters. Unfortunately, he will be forced to use the geneforge... Which is why he will be anti canister and pro-shaper. I have not decided if he will betray the shapers in the end for another sect.

 

He will play with honour, roleplayed as a sort of knight errant. Battle magic will be disdained. Icy crystals, spray crystals, wands, everything like that, full of bad juju. Swords and batons will be his main weapons, typically swords. Shaping will be allowed, although he will never add to his own shaping skills. Blessing magic will be limited, achieved though items, to allow him to give 'commands' to his army. Captain's Shiv and other items will be hoarded to this end.

 

I will be full clearing as much as possible. While I intend to have high mechanics and leadership, and I might work around some nasty areas, I will go back and clear that area of rogues eventually. Everything must be slain with thorns and steel. One on one brutal toe to toe combat. With no battle magic or canned battle magic. And this will be on torment.

 

Healing magic will be completely unrestricted. A good leader and a wise knight is well versed in medicine and anatomy... And I fully intend to care for my charges with the best care available. While I plan to be pro-shaper, any creation in my care will not die from neglect or poor treatment on the battlefield.

 

I plan to experiment with vampiric items, and the first ethereal bindings I get will go in to the oozing sword.

 

Oh, and that is the last finishing twist. Every named sword in the game, from the Stunning Blade to Tek's Spectral Dirk, every special unique sword that I find will be hoarded, not sold. And at first chance, will be escorted to an anvil, where I will place an enchantment of my choosing in to the blade, and then that blade will be used in a duel with a worthy foe... Hopefully a tough somewhat unique creation or enemy. For example, the maddened dryak in the early part of the game could be killed with the Stunning Blade after I find something to upgrade it with. Then there is Krazo. There is no shortage of worthy foes to test my mettle against.

[Dikiyoba]

Hooray!

 

Dikiyoba will watch this thread with great interest.

[Leftover Sauerkraut]

Do items that add to shaping count? Otherwise no wingbolts or drakons

 

And it's on torment, right?

[Delicious Vlish]

First order of business was to get Mechanics up to 12, and also crank leadership. A couple of odd spare points were placed in melee skills.

 

Javelins have been my friend so far. With no icy crystals, I needed a hard hitting ranged weapon for some targets, and I don't yet have a venom baton.

 

I learned right off the bat that three fyoras will kill me. Three worms can finish me off. I hit very hard in melee already with a bronze sword, but I am not quite one shot killing my targets... So far, I spend a lot of time trying to run away and pelting things with javelins and thorns, and finishing off weakened foes with running melee jabs. Keeper Tycho under most circumstances is pretty easy, just whittle him down with icy crystals. I didn't have that option. Shortly after finishing off those two first areas, I had 12 mechanics and I went and retrieved the girdle to boost my int. Had just enough to make a cryoa, which I named Coldclaw. Coldclaw does more damage than I do... Which means that when he blasts something with icy breath, the enemy focuses on him, not me. It has been tricky keeping Coldclaw alive. I tend to run around in combat mode, using my self as bait, tagging something with a thorn, running away around a corner, and leading that something back to my chilly little friend.

 

The Thahds around Keeper Tycho were very nearly the death of me. I went down to 1 hit point from that battle, and parried a blow that would have killed me.

 

Not having daze is proving to be very challenging.

 

Yes, I will use items that boost shaping... I will not spend precious skill points though. Pretty much everything will go in to melee skills and physical stats.

[Randomizer]

I would have held off on mechanics of 12 until after the Cairns gate. Since you are so high in mechanics I assumed that you hit the Boiling Mudpits for the easy experience. High mechanics really hurts in the early part of the game except for the extra experience and being able to save living tools.

 

It will be interesting to see how you do in Sandros Mines. Daze is really useful in the early game to keep from getting swarmed. It's harder to edge up and just get one at a time from most of those groups.

[Delicious Vlish]

The Mudpits are next on my list of things to do.

 

I needed a cryoa ASAP. Rather than waste points in int, I dropped those points in to mechanics. I don't plan to add anything to int... Just items.

 

Having my little blue buddy so far has been the key to actually winning most battles.

 

My fyoras proved to be, well, worthless. Everything kept killing them in one hit. I'd make one, it'd be around level 5ish I think, and then a worm, or a thahd, or something would hit it, and it would die. The loss of firepower and a meat shield was usually enough to tip the battle away from my favour, forcing me to beat a hasty retreat. Coldclaw can take two or three hits before he will die. He connects more with his targets than the previous fyoras did, making his damage more consistant. I lost my first fyora while in the tutorial section actually... The rogue fyora you meet in there did him in, along with one of those worms. Not only does the belt allow me to make a cryoa, I also have enough essence left over to cast minor heal a couple of times, which has been a life saver.

 

I have carefully traveled all the way to the shaper camp, where I got a much needed necklace to keep me from getting stunned so easily. I already have around 30 living tools... The high mechanics means everything I touch either opens straight away or opens with a single tool.

 

I need to carefully work my way up to the point where I can augment my self and increase my hit points. Once I get there, I should be a bit more sturdy. Once I get a venom baton, I should be able to do more hit and run tactics. Poison would also be helpful against creature regen... Some times monsters heal more in a round than the damage I inflict. Which is... Annoying. The venom baton will allow me to run and gun, and once I can do that, I know I will be ok.

 

Not having daze is really weird. I have grown so dependant on it. If this were a melee servile, this would have been a cakewalk thus far.

 

But the challenge is fun.

[Leftover Sauerkraut]

Tell me if I'm wrong, but in the Sandros mine, instead of talking to the shade that makes everyone hostile, can't you skip the dialog option and attack the shade directly? I did this on my second time through and no other shades turned hostile.

[Delicious Vlish]

With enough leadership you can make the shade leave you alone.

 

I just finished the boiling mudpits, which along with everything else I have done, places me at level 10. Leadership is 7, mechanics is 12. I had to add a point to strength, as my armor was starting to slow me down, which meant certain death. Still have not reached the venom baton. Stun resist is over 60 now with the necklace from the shaper camp. The point placed in strength means I can now chunk most things in one hit with my sword. Turrets are a PAIN with out icy crystals. Coldclaw is supremely valuable for ranged attacks. Javelins must have a decent multiplier, because damage is ramping up nicely so far.

 

That roamer in the boiling mudpits very nearly took me out.

 

I have completely forgot how damaging and dangerous stuff really is. Not having daze is forcing me to reconsider how I play the game. I am most definately mortal, and it sort of feels good to be playing as such.

[Delicious Vlish]

I have discovered an interesting use for the stunning blade. It is useful for missile users.

 

I have found that I can run up to a hard hitter, like one of those battle alphas on the bridge, stab it, and run away, all the while shooting when I get to my last action point. The alpha on the other hand, has had some action points leached away by the stunning blade, keeping it just out of reach. This also worked wonders on the shaper patrol in Spirefield. Getting the fyora fang charm was nightmarish... I don't remember it ever being that hard. One of those fire puffs hit me for about 40 to 50 damage. Ouch! Coldclaw is turning out to be an amazing asset. I think I might actually do some upgrading and keep him for a very long time. I'll have no way of getting a cryodryak, and I have found cold damage to be very consistant through out the whole game, especially against wingbolts and end game enemies.

 

I have a venom baton now. Which rocks. When teamed with the action point leaching of the stunning blade, I can wear down almost anything in relative safety, provided that something does not have a ranged attack. And then I am up chocolate creek with out a popcicle stick.

 

I bought two points of spellcraft. Hey, it'll help my healing skills.

[Slawbug]

Yeah, Cryoa are the new Vlish, in some ways anyway.

[Randomizer]

Cryoa even work with undead if you don't mind that they have to bite them.

 

You really need to raise endurance as soon as you can. I found that you can wander through the dumping pit's poisonous atmosphere and shrug off the damage except for that box in the corner.

[Suspicious Vlish]

DV:

Quote:

I have found that I can run up to a hard hitter, like one of those battle alphas on the bridge, stab it, and run away,

In the Windows version, you can't move once you have attacked...

[Lilith]

Can't do it in the Mac version either, unless there's a conveniently-placed pot or other searchable object available. Of course, due to the changes to the AP system, running away to avoid being attacked is less effective than in previous GF games anyway.

[Delicious Vlish]

My apologies... To make it clear, since nobody has figured it out yet, and the fact that I only have 8 ap because there is no speed spell, is that I attack and run away the next round. The next couple of rounds are spent running willy nilly.

 

The poison pit was nasty. The thahds nearly did me in. I woke up all three at once by accident. The artillas were exceptionally unfriendly and very nearly killed Coldclaw. The thorn bushes were bad. I'd run forward to stab one, only to have others join in and shoot me. I didn't want to waste precious venom thorns shooting those topiaries of torment.

 

Shalia was taken care of and reunited with Greenfang. The roamer and artilla ambush at the docks was very nearly fatal with out daze.

 

I have a couple of shaped lances I am saving. I think I'll wind up using those on a certain dryak when the time comes.

 

I think I will have enough essence soon to make a vlish, once I gain the ability. Coldclaw has been upgraded a bit, and is doing about 60 to 80 damage a shot with icy breath, a bit more if blessed.

 

Endurance has been raised, and so has dexterity. This improved my missile damage will give me an edge in combat. I am all done raising leadership and mechanics, so from here on out I am free to do anything with my stats.

 

Just need to escort the caravan to their doom.

[Delicious Vlish]

Update.

 

I have access to an anvil. A very long and ugly fight. I endured. Shades had a hard time hitting me actually. Was wearing a steel breastplate I stole.

 

Coldclaw was joined by a Vlish named Vlindaloo. Vlindaloo has been a huge boon and has pulled both my warrior and my cryoa out of a few tough spots.

 

I launched an absolutely brutal assault on the circle of the dryak. I wanted the charm to boost healing skills. And I wanted all of the loot too. I have found that the thirsting blade with an enchantment that makes it drip acid is actually a pretty good weapon. I was getting back upwards of 20 life on a really good hit, but only 5 to 10 on a really poor hit. Double strikes would noticeably move my hit point bar. Between the vampiric touch and me constantly casting regeneration on my self, I'd survive prolonged combat with many powerful enemies. Serviles with batons do a lot more damage than I remember... Usually they just stand there motionless waiting for me to kill them. Not the case here.

 

Upgraded the stunning blade with cold essence. Against some foes, the cold essence can do upwards of 50 damage, which is actually pretty good.

 

Have the Lodestone greaves... Which has made a big impact on how much damage I do. I can now chunk many foes on first contact, provided that I get a second swing from quick action.

 

Battle with the swamp bandits was an ugly afair. Jadetree provided a blistering offense which caused me to retreat a bit and catch my breath. But yeah. I chunked them. Vlindaloo really saved our bacon. I have never really noticed the vlish cursing ability before to be honest. I knew they did it, but never really noticed the effect because stuff was motionless or died fast. Once Vlindaloo blasts something, that something has a really hard time connecting a hit. Monsters drop down in to the 20 to 30 percent hit range after a vlish bolt. Also, my hits connect more frequently. Cursed stuff takes more damage. All in all, a good effect.

 

Need to go after the heart of the kiln and then get my hands on an acid baton, both of which are going to be rough.

 

Yes, I plan to kill everything on my way to getting the gemstone. No daze, and all those vlish... Oooh. Ugh.

[Slawbug]

20-30% hit after a curse?

What difficulty level is this?

[Delicious Vlish]

Torment.

 

A the curse cuts their chance to hit in half or so.

 

It should be noted I am wearing a LOT of armor. Shaped gloves, breastplate, stuff like that, and that I tend to run around with protection cast.

 

Edit. I should also mention that I have some blessing stones stuffed in my armor and my shield.

 

With protection cast, most things have about a 50/50 chance to hit me. A little more, a little less, depending on what is attacking.

 

I am nearly level 25 now.

 

Another edit.

 

Ilya West Road area. The massive thahd had a 52% chance to hit me with just protection cast. No vlish bolt. One of the clawbug patrols had a displayed 28% chance to hit with protection cast after a vlish bolt. The displayed numbers could in fact, be wrong.

 

Patrol thahds hit so hard... Dang.

[Delicious Vlish]

I like to call this picture "Fools Rush In."

 

Because that is what happened here. After a couple of failures and reloads trying to lure out a few at a time, I just went all out and went in swinging. I used some shielding pods, some speed pods, and cast blessing.

 

What you don't see in the picture are vlish. I killed those with javelins and thorns, and icy breath from Coldclaw. There are bloodstains everywhere. Many foes had already fallen. You can see that I am at half health... I had just healed a little bit from stabbing something the previous round. And you can see, I am heavily armored and well protected once Vlindaloo curses something. Try as I might, I couldn't chunk anything down here in one hit. Nope. There was much hacking and slashing, as well as wailing and gnashing of teeth. I almost died the round or two after this shot was taken.

 

Stunning blade is still incredibly useful for many encounters. Captain's Shiv is nice for when I need to give orders, and the assorted missiles in my belt come in handy.

 

Game is getting impossibly hard in some spots though.

[Randomizer]

You went in through the kiln side!!!

 

No wonder you had trouble after facing the hell hounds and then the vlish. It's marginally easier from the entrance side.

 

Maybe you should try the Electrified Fields for some easy experience. I'm surprised that you are lasting this long without crystals. You have all those roamer packs to fight in Rocky Point that are going to be a problem.

[Delicious Vlish]

I already did the electrified field.

 

Oh. And for the record, I don't recommend anybody try this whole anti magic slay everything with steel and thorns type hero.

 

And yes, I came in from the kiln side. The reason being... Most of the vlish are in a neat little cluster in the center of the room. Come in fast and hard enough, and you can take them out with out to much fuss... Sort of sneaking up behind them. Most of the other creations are way on the other side of the room, sort of leaving the vlish unprotected. It takes a round or two before everything swarms you.

 

Rocky Point roamers... Ugh. I really don't have a plan for those just yet. I don't have any multi target attacks. I'll figure something out. Might even post a picture. I am also worried about the shaper attack. I think I am in for a rough time.

 

Heck, the fyora guarding the workshop darn near killed me.

 

Edit. You can see the vlish corpses in that picture... They are the blobs of goo between the cart and the stone spire. Really, they are easier to ambush this way, as they are totally unprotected, pretty much all of the melee critters are at the other end of the room, typically where most people enter. All I can say is, try it your self.

[Suspicious Vlish]

DV:

Quote:

My apologies... To make it clear, since nobody has figured it out yet, and the fact that I only have 8 ap because there is no speed spell, is that I attack and run away the next round. The next couple of rounds are spent running willy nilly.

That doesn't even make sense in theory. Logic tells me that the Stun effect would wear off pretty quickly, and then your foe would chase you down and whip your thorn baton toting ass.

 

Perhaps you could post a video on Youtube showing your 'Stun Blade + Missile' tactic in action?

 

Quote:

Rocky Point roamers... Ugh. I really don't have a plan for those just yet. I don't have any multi target attacks. I'll figure something out. Might even post a picture. I am also worried about the shaper attack. I think I am in for a rough time.

I'd say that winning that fight would be nigh on impossible. Probably as difficult as using a Wizardslayer to escape Irenicus's chateau (BG2) with the Tactics mod installed.

 

Quote:

I have never really noticed the vlish cursing ability before to be honest. I knew they did it, but never really noticed the effect because stuff was motionless or died fast. Once Vlindaloo blasts something, that something has a really hard time connecting a hit. Monsters drop down in to the 20 to 30 percent hit range after a vlish bolt. Also, my hits connect more frequently. Cursed stuff takes more damage. All in all, a good effect.

Yeah, I always disagreed with the mainstream assessment that the Vlish was merely 'a former shadow' of its cousins from the previous Geneforges. It's still the most powerful, and useful, second tier creation.

 

The curse ability is darn useful. I've noticed a damage increase of approximately 15-20 when my Vlishy attacks a second time. It also approximately halves the chance of the enemy to hit.

 

Added to which, Vlish seem to be very good at dodging. For example, my Vlish had a 50%-75% chance to dodge non-cursed clawbug attacks. Add to that the innate physical resist, and you have a winner. I still am making Vlish at the very end of the game.

[Randomizer]

This might work at Rocky Point. Stay near the entrance and wait for the roving roamer patrol to go past. I forget if there are three or four of those that split into worms. Go for the last one each time as they circle so you don't have to deal with the rest. On speed spores you should be able to kill half of them before the worms get to move. Hopefully you don't have to fight the lashing roamers at the same time.

 

The rescue of the Rebels isn't too bad if you don't mind losing some experience losing some Rebels. Speed spores and let them help even up the odd.

[Delicious Vlish]

The stunning blade lasts for several rounds, and drains action points. I can tell when it is wearing off by how close something gets to me before it stops. Starting off, it has about half of its normal movement, and that increases slightly each round. It works better than one might think, especially if you have venom thorns. Or acid thorns, as I now have an acid baton.

 

I survived Rocky Point.

 

How did I do it? First, I visited the anvil and popped a skull in to my Captian's Shiv. Then I went to Rocky Point and very quickly before the roamer pack got wind of me, cast augmentation on my self and my pets. Before I could cast bless and protection, here come the wormy roamers. Speed spores, shielding spores, cast bless. The shiv makes a noticeable difference in my creations and how often stuff hits them. Never had a chance to notice before. Soon, the screen is filled with worms, roamers, and more roamers, as some of the other roamers from around the corner guarding the nest decided to come out and play. I kept protection and bless up, and tried to keep speed going. And I was chunkin'. I'd blast stuff with a venom baton, switch back to the shiv, and then stab whatever was in melee range with my second attack. Vlindaloo was kicking roamer behind. Blasting, cursing, fiesty tentacle slaps of pain, he was doing better in the thick of combat than Coldclaw was. And then, somehow, it was over. Every roamer, every worm, all dead.

 

I went over and claimed my hard won acid baton from the off the path grove.

 

Then I dealt with the shaper attack on the rebels.

 

There was much chunking. Cursing power from sword and vlish was an unstoppable combo... The mage got both acid and venom thorns right in the kisser for nearly killing Coldclaw with magic. I also almost lost Vlindaloo to the clawbugs, who just wouldn't leave the poor vlish alone. Both Coldclaw and Vlindaloo ran out of energy in the battle... Which caused some awkward moments let me tell you.

 

I bought the venom chainmail and other goods from the merchant.

 

And now, a picture.

 

 

WHAT A FIGHT!!!

 

As you can see, he's cursed. Heavily so. Vlish bolts and the power of the skull embedded in the shiv. He's having a hard time connecting as you can see. He went from auto-connect to swiping at air. As you can see I have barely made a dent in his hit points, and he kept regenerating more hit points in a round than the damage done to him. I had to keep him cursed, and then try to pop off a shot of acid or venom to stop his regen. I got Krazo down to a 10% chance to hit eventually.

 

It took a while, but I laid him low. As long as I kept him cursed, and kept reapplying the curse to keep him severely cursed, he was manageable.

 

I spent a long long time hacking at the vlish in the ruins... Needless to say, I haven't won. Yet. But I will. Somehow. I have ideas. None of which will probably work.

 

I think I need another Vlish.

[Suspicious Vlish]

DV:

 

Quote:

The stunning blade lasts for several rounds, and drains action points. I can tell when it is wearing off by how close something gets to me before it stops. Starting off, it has about half of its normal movement, and that increases slightly each round. It works better than one might think, especially if you have venom thorns. Or acid thorns, as I now have an acid baton.

*shrugs* Post a video on youtube, and I'll believe you.

 

Try using this: http://www.fraps.com/

 

Quote:

I survived Rocky Point

How many times did you have to reload?

 

Quote:

I bought the venom chainmail

Why?! The 10 damage reflection just isn't worth it, IMHO.

 

Quote:

Vlish bolts and the power of the skull embedded in the shiv

That's one point on which we agreed. Augmenting a weapon with the Ivory Skull for a melee character.

[Dikiyoba]

Hmm. After reading this, I think I'll experiment with the stunning blade some more. I've never had a chance to use it for very long before switching over to the steel broadsword.

 

Dikiyoba.

[Randomizer]

For facing that vlish instead of making another vlish, you could try making a few fyoras to swarm the four images to find the right one. I know you don't want to use temporary creations.

 

The worst part is the four images split up to attack. You could try luring them into the eastern room.

[Delicious Vlish]

Sorry, Mac user here.

 

The stunning blade is not a major exploit. Merely minorly useful in wearing down strong foes. It is really very simple. You hit something. They go down to say, 5 action points. You have 8 action points. You can run 7 moves away from them and fire with a venom baton. Next turn, they have 6 action points. You still have 8. You are still one point away from them.

 

At this point, they are heavily poisoned. You have two options. At low health, move in, hit hard, and finish them off. At mid health, move in, stun again, run away, rinse, repeat. I am not saying it is the most powerful exploit in the universe... But I will say it is useful for the circumstances I use it in. If stuff can't reach you, stuff can't hurt you. Really very simple.

 

And Rocky Point didn't take that many reloads. It was tough, but mostly I got lucky with the RNG.

 

Edit.

 

Venom chainmail. I don't think I bought it for the damage reflection, I think I bought it for the stun resistance it offers. I think. Brain is still fuzzy. Lower defense, more stun resist. I think.

[Slawbug]

I'm not entirely clear how this stun exploit works either. I understand DV's math, but your opponent gets a turn right after you strike and will presumably attack you then.

 

That said, in G3 I used the Stunning Blade for a VERY long time with my Melee Agent. Under G3's system, it could stun twice (once for the ability and once just for being a damage-dealing attack), which with Quick Action meant up to four stuns per turn. Most enemies could be incapacitated in a single hit if they were alone. It stopped being useful late in the game due to most enemies having stun resistance or extra APs, or appearing in large groups.

[Delicious Vlish]

I bit my lip and retrieved the Oozing Blade. That went badly. I did more reloads trying to get past the submission turrents than I care to count. Ouch.

 

Oozing Blade handily chopped Mr. Mirror Image Vlish into bite sized sushi chunks, complete with green wasabi sauce.

 

Shaftoe's servant mind kept wrecking me. Kept casting orbs, was very painful. The clawbugs were no picnic either, but more of an annoyance rather than a real danger once Vlindaloo got ahold of them.

 

Moseh was a non event. No combat, no hurting, no pain.

 

A very tiny screenshot showing why you crank dex out the wazoo as a warrior and ratchet up your missile skills.

 

 

POW! The screenshot shown is the damage done with a single shot with an acid baton. This is non blessed random shot damage. Cast war blessing and this damage goes up considerably. Even on torment, this kind of damage is no laughing matter, this is a noticeable bit of hurt being directly applied to the enemy. Yes, the rat lived through the opening shot and tried to eat me. This is how I will be surviving later... Run and gun.

 

The Gruesome Charm, and the dexterity it offers, will give me a considerable boost to my damage with missile weapons, probably the most important aspect of the charm for me. The extra essence is nice, don't get me wrong, but each point in dex really matters when you play by the seat of your pants like this, and once dexterity gets up there, your baton shots start becoming the great equaliser in the end game. When so many enemies either parry your melee assaults, or it is simply not wise to close in to melee range, baton shots are the great leveler. Submission batons doubly so because of the ancillary effects offered. When you do 150 points of damage or there abouts with an acid baton, sure, you are no infiltrator or magic using servile, but that is no warm tickling breeze either to a monster. And then there are the fun toys like submission batons and reaper batons.

 

Now that I have a decent baton and a good blade, I am feeling pretty confident that I can go and whack this guy calling himself Monarch.

[Delicious Vlish]

Quote:

Originally written by Yama:
I'm not entirely clear how this stun exploit works either. I understand DV's math, but your opponent gets a turn right after you strike and will presumably attack you then.

That said, in G3 I used the Stunning Blade for a VERY long time with my Melee Agent. Under G3's system, it could stun twice (once for the ability and once just for being a damage-dealing attack), which with Quick Action meant up to four stuns per turn. Most enemies could be incapacitated in a single hit if they were alone. It stopped being useful late in the game due to most enemies having stun resistance or extra APs, or appearing in large groups.

Yes, the enemy gets a strike. ONE strike. So long as that strike doesn't kill you, you are free to run away and pelt them with thorns. It beats melee where you might get squished. The best way to avoid taking a fatal amount of damage is to not be there when it happens.

Once again, I am not saying this is a super high powered exploit. But for those slaying with thorns and steel alone, it is one of many dirty tricks in your bag. There are better ways to skin a cat.

[Delicious Vlish]

I am guessing that interest in this game has slumped. Nobody comments on the insidious infiltrator, and not many folks are commenting here.

 

So I guess I am going to save the effort and hang this up.

 

For the record, I mooshed the golem in the fen, and I went toe to toe with Monarch and survived.

[Goldengirl]

Quote:

Originally written by Delicious Vlish:
I am guessing that interest in this game has slumped. Nobody comments on the insidious infiltrator, and not many folks are commenting here.

So I guess I am going to save the effort and hang this up.

For the record, I mooshed the golem in the fen, and I went toe to toe with Monarch and survived.

I am paying attention, and would like to know atleast the details of your fight with Shaper Monarch.

[Dikiyoba]

Aww...

 

Let's hear about your fights in the fens, at least.

 

Dikiyoba.

[Xaiya]

Just so you know, I am using a warrior too, and on my first playthrough.

 

You guys keep saying how warrior sucks.

[Delicious Vlish]

The warrior, does indeed, suck.

 

The Servile has him beat in every way.

[Randomizer]

The servile has an easier time than a warrior since he can gain magic spells easier and still make creations later on in the game when things start to get hard for him.

 

The warrior is a weaker version of the guardian since all the other classes can make creations which was the guardian's main advantage as a fighter.

 

DV you can keep up the game if you want. I think the hardest part at this point will be getting through the western part of Sandros Mine. Since you won't use magic you are severely going to be hit by essence shackle slowing by the Soul Twins and I don't think you have a strong enough creation to face the Old Golem. Most of Burwood won't be a challenge except the Western Morass.

[Delicious Vlish]

The golem battle was pure luck. All there is to it really. I kept the golem cursed... As best I could. Even blessed, Vlindaloo and Coldclaw had a tough time connecting their attacks. The spawner was hard to kill and kept spitting out creations while the golem pounded us.

 

Even with protection, and the golem being cursed, the golem would hit me for about 150 damage... I was chunked many, many times. I finally got my self to the point where the spawner was gone and I was forced to cut down the mightiest tree in the forest with a herring. I'd switch between the oozing blade and the captian's shiv, which had the skull in it. And I fought the golem to a stalemate. I could not apply enough damage in a turn to out do his regen. Reloaded, fled the grove.

 

Returned with soldiers from the rebel camp. The stabby kind and the thorn shooting kind.

 

Assault began anew. Speed pods, blessing, protection, the slow process of chopping down the spawner, removing the distractions, all the while dealing with a golem hell bent on smooshing somebody.

 

There was much stabbing, and shooting, and missed attacks, and a great deal of furious angry cursing, so much so that it scared my dog. With the servile, it is so easy... Dominate stuff as the spawner creates it, cast kill, dominate, cast spine shield, blast with magic, collect phat lewt. Not the case here.

 

Nope. I had to take down the old box of rocks the hard way. He chunked a couple of my soldiers. The thorn shooters were barely even scratching him.

 

But he was slowly going down. I began to wonder, who would wear out first? I was losing troops... I was losing my healing supplies. My essence reserves were limited, and keeping bless and protection up was a difficult task. No blessing and everything game to a grinding halt.

 

It took forever, but I wore him down. That golem crumbling sound was never more welcome.

 

I made the legs of the tyrant, which turned out to be a really good move for me.

[Synergy]

As the stubborn writer of the Infiltrator saga, I'd like to say it is quite nice to read of someone else's exploits for a change. I suppose I really should work on wrapping my tale too. I'll be interested to see how far you can get with this build.

 

-S-

[Delicious Vlish]

 

He isn't much, is he? Yes, he really is as weak as he looks. Yet, he is resourceful and survives. I couldn't imagine the game with out mechanics and leadership. This shot was not to long after creaming Monarch.

 

Monarch was killed by pumping him full of acid and venom thorns. Acid shots were doing around 100 to 150 damage. Venom shots a little less. Getting in to Monarch's melee range is suicidal. Yet, there was a few times I closed the distance and poked him with the oozing blade, mostly to get him good and angry and leave my creations alone.

 

My baton shots did just enough damage to stun Monarch. Just a little. Which helped I am sure.

 

Monarch's big spawning creator was a terrible fight in its own right, worse than the battle with Monarch. I got swarmed with Ghlaaks that I just couldn't keep up with. Usually, I just dominate the Ghlaaks and spine shield them, which ends the fight all to quickly. Not the case here. It took me almost an hour or so to take down that freak and it was at this point I started realising, from here on out, it is all about time investment and wearing stuff down. Which sort of took the fun out of the game. I'm not quitting, not just yet, but I am thinking about it. Either that, or I start using magical items, and break the theme of my character. Although, I fear, at this point, a couple of icy crystals and a few wands wouldn't help me much.

 

From this point on, I will be dealing with things that are going to take me a significant investment of time to hack down, and I will be facing them by the swarm. My damage can barely keep up with monster regen. Where a servile or an infiltrator would barely even pause while they waved their hands and blow stuff up, I will be inflicting the death of a thousand tiny paper cuts.

 

Things I have noticed. So far, my batons have done far more damage than my melee weapons. Even with quick strike getting some double hits, the batons are a more consistant damage dealer. Acid and poison does damage over time, wearing a target down. Sticking something with a sword places you in melee range. In my battle with the golem, I lost a lot of turns because of stun. Being in melee range means you get hit, which means if something slaps you silly, you lose a round of attack recovering. Which means no damage that round. As far as actual damage numbers go, with, say, the oozing blade, I do about 60 to 80 damage with an attack, a little more if blessed, and on a lucky hit, a double strike. Compare that to doing 100 to 150ish damage straight up with the venom baton. No chance of a double strike with missile weapons, but damage delivery is consistant. Damage is also high enough (usually) to cause a bit of stun.

 

Missiles have some funky damage numbers. I don't know how they work. The baton it self has one damage multiplier, the thorns another, then there is the missile skill, and dexterity. Melee weapons have the weapon, your strength, and your melee skill. Somehow, the missiles come up with consistantly higher damage rolls. Why is this? Are the multipliers really making that much of a difference? I don't understand nearly enough about math to be able to figure this out, but this was true in G3, and is especially so in G4.

 

Burwood awaits, and I do not currently have the means to create a Wingbolt. Not enough essence. Need to figure out what I am going to do.

[Slawbug]

Quote:

Originally written by Delicious Vlish:
As far as actual damage numbers go, with, say, the oozing blade, I do about 60 to 80 damage with an attack, a little more if blessed, and on a lucky hit, a double strike. Compare that to doing 100 to 150ish damage straight up with the venom baton.

Hmm. This is somewhat odd. Both Venom Batons and the Oozing Sword do 1-5 damage per level of damage. What's more, the sword is 6 levels higher than the baton and you also have 3 more points in Melee than Missile. And they both do physical damage. This is *really* odd.

Well, let's do the math the way we'd expect it to look:

Weapon level + str/dex + melee/missile

Sword: 12 + 9 + 12 = 33
Baton: 6 + 9 + 9 = 24

Multiplier average of 3
Sword = 99
Baton = 72

Monarch has 40% armor, so multiply by .6 average:
Sword = 59 damage
Baton = 43 damage

Luck, or some other factor, might push damage up a little, so the sword damage is about what we woudl expect. But clearly, something is making the baton do damage very, very differently. 43 damage is nowhere near the 125 or so average you're reporting.

I'm honestly a little befuddled, because I've never seen missiles do damage so drastically different. Certainly not in G3 when I ran a missile agent.

I don't think the thorns are a factor at all since you can fire a baton with the same results with or without a thorn item in your inventory, and without the thorn item, there's no chance of using its multiplier or anything else.

What's amazing is that you are reporting damage three times above what the formulae predict. Doubling the impact of dex AND missile skill AND the item bonus doesn't cover it. Doubling the multiplier doesn't cover it. Maximizing the multiplier results doesn't even cover it. It would have to be some combination of these kinds of effects.

And I'm skeptical, because as far as we have seen, these parts of the attack are dealt with uniformly for every single attack in G4. They're handled the same in the item defs, too. Jeff would have had to hardcode in a different way of handling missiles.

Vlish, are you sure about those numbers?

[Delicious Vlish]

Look at the picture of me blasting that rat for all that damage.

 

Thorns do a die of damage, batons add another, then you have dex and missile weapons skill affecting those somehow.

 

I don't know how it works... But I know I have taken screenshots of it working.

 

 

Right there. This was while retrieving the Gruesome Charm. I plugged a rat with the acid baton.

 

My damage has since gone up, as my dex is now higher, my missile skill has gone up, etc.

 

I keep telling people that missiles ramp up differently than everything else. It is possible to clear 200 damage with an icy crystal. I've said it time and time again and I guess nobody was paying attention.

 

Even on a much weaker lifecrafter with only a meagre dex investment and a few in missile weapons say, from items and training, it is easy to get just enough damage from batons to really layeth the smacketh down.

[Slawbug]

That's an acid baton against a Brain Rat. Brain Rats don't have armor, and acid batons do 1-6. That ramps our damage estimate up to 84 with the normal formula, only 17 points below your result. Your sword strikes also did more than the formula suggested, so it's likely there is another element, maybe a random factor in the multiplier rolls, that pushes things higher on average.

 

(Meanwhile, the Oozing Sword would be expected to do 99 damage against a Brain Rat, from the formula.)

 

Missile damage ramps up faster because missiles ramp up multipliers and weapons don't, while missiles have significant base damage and spells don't.

[Delicious Vlish]

An acid baton does 6 to 36 damage base as listed. The ammo does 1 to 6 damage base as listed.

 

Somehow, the damage comes out much, much higher. I suspect that somewhere a multiplier my be boosting a cumulative result rather than base. Maybe. I mean, I've seen it happen in other games.

 

My missile skill has since gone up, as I have traveled through Burwood, helping the infiltrators. Horis survived somehow. The damage I can do with a a baton is absolutely staggering compared to what I can do with a sword. I have a submission baton and that has made a huge difference in my survival. Damage is even higher than the acid baton, provided I am not battling magic resistant creatures. If so, I whip out another baton and have at them.

 

Vlindaloo and Coldclaw are still holding on somehow. Vlindaloo misses a lot now. I've raised his dex a bit, but it didn't make much difference. his cursing isn't as pronounced now. Cursed monsters are still whacking me for 60% to 80% chance to hit, which is pretty bad. It means that no matter how much armor I am packing, stuff is going to hit me. Which is making me rethink my armor strat a bit. No sense being encumbered in heavy armor if it isn't doing much good.

 

Coldclaw dies in one hit if a wingbolt blasts him. This... This is not good for me. I have had to do a lot of reloads, not because I was in danger, but because my pets die.

 

I have a new companion named Shotwell.

[Synergy]

Why is your mechanics so high?

 

-S-

[Delicious Vlish]

 

More baton goodness. I remembered to take a screenie while I assaulted the servile cultist stronghold.

 

This is a non blessed shot.

 

Clearing that area was a nightmare. It took me forever to take out the center area.

 

I broke down and added precious skill points to int. I was able to create a wingbolt named Dingbat and upgraded Coldclaw and Vlindaloo a bit more. Monsters seem to find Vlish Vlindaloo delicious, so I upgraded his endurance a good bit actually.

 

I fought the Uberoozebeast. Ugh. Almost died. I put the gloves on though and it was worth it. Was sorely tempted to use the Ornk canister. I have aided three of the infiltrators so far.

 

I battled the weird trall for the anvil. That was unpleasant. I'd highly recommend anybody trying what I am doing right now to just skip this. Must have reloaded over a dozen times.

 

Already I am forming a plan to attempt to destroy the rebel camp. There are bottlenecks there, and I can lure monsters back a few at a time. I am going to wait till I have a reaper baton to try this. I do realise that assaulting the rebel stronghold and killing whatshername with a melee oriented warrior on torment will probably be my undoing.

 

I never thought I'd get as far as I did. This is worse than pulling teeth. I probably need my head examined.

 

I realise that I have no way to cast mass energise. Not sure what I will do to try and fix this.

[Delicious Vlish]

Quote:

Originally written by Synergy:
Why is your mechanics so high?

-S-

Servile technicians!

[Delicious Vlish]

Some days, you just get stabby.

 

 

When I walked out of town, nothing lived. It was as quiet and still as a tomb. There was a lot of chopping that took place. Coldclaw, Vlindaloo, and Dingbat all survived the melee, and so did Shotwell. I didn't even have spine shield. Or mass energise. All I had was speed, war blessing, and protection. All in all, there was a lot of chunking going down.

 

I credit my survival to hoarding all the life steal items I could and regeneration.

 

Oh.And submission batons. GLORIOUS submission batons.

 

 

 

These are fairly average damages. Most shots did about 150 damage. Some shots cleared over 200 damage. Against foes with little or no armor, these are fatal. Ratchet up the damage high enough, and you get a double stun effect... One from damage, the other from the thorn. And I am not sure, but I think the strength of the stun from the thorn is effected by your missile skill... Monsters were absolutely immobile after I plugged them once or twice.

 

What truly amazes me is my little blue buddy Coldclaw. He has been with me since the begining. He mows down Drakkons, eyebeasts, gazers, wingbolts, anything. He has been heavily upgraded by now. He can easily do over a hundred damage to the right target, and typically stuns his foes. He has finally become hard to kill. He has stood toe to toe in melee with, well, pretty much the whole town when I went to killing. He is darn sure stronger than any cryodryak I have ever had. For whatever it is worth to the reader, it is more than worth it to keep one cryoa from the very begining and upgrade it constantly. He is one bad little lizard.

 

Vlindaloo consistantly does over 100 damage a shot now as well. He shrugs off most everything, seems to be very difficult to hit, and his melee damage is absolutely frightning... More so than my own. Keep in mind, he has been heavily upgraded. He can slap down battle gammas with relative ease. He chunks golems. He can slap a dryak silly.

 

Dingbat was the last to join the party, but was worth the wait. He too, was heavily upgraded, even though it was costly. Playing a warrior on torment, I went for qaulity over quanity as a gamble, and it paid off. Wingbolts can achieve over 200 damage a shot on average if you upgrade their strength a good bit. They also become excedingly dangerous in melee if you do this. I could not have destroyed the rebel stronghold with out Dingbat and his furious magical blasts that did sizable chunks of damage to the many, many war tralls I encountered.

 

The endgame awaits.

[Leftover Sauerkraut]

How useful is Shotwell? Is he like a battle beta that costs no essence?

[Lilith]

She can plink at things with a baton for minimal damage and is lucky if she can take a hit without dying. On balance, not all that useful.

[Delicious Vlish]

Shotwell was somewhat sturdy, she is a missile character after all. She didn't do a whole lot of damage, but she did help.

 

Mostly she was nice for roleplay and background.