A4

[Toenail Returns]

What do you think will be new features in A4?

[Rent-an-Ihrno]

this topic looks slightly familiar...

[Kelandon]

We often do speculation/request topics when a new game is coming out. We haven't had one for A4 yet. (We did have a sort of "gasp in amazement that he's actually doing this" thread, but not a request thread.)

 

Therefore I deem this thread worthy of life.

 

I hope with all of my hope that it stays turn-based and doesn't go into GF real-time. I hope that we can still control things with the keyboard and aren't required to use the mouse.

 

As for new features, I expect him to use scripting, so we should see a number of specialized behaviors, and I bet we'll have alternate endings, too.

 

Do we actually know anything about A4, other than that it will exist and will have a new engine? I haven't been following the interviews in a while.

[finlay]

Quote:

SW's main page:
What's Coming? We started working on Avernum 4. Hopefully, we'll have screenshots available in the next few months.

I have to agree that I hope it won't be like GF, non-turn-based (although GF is more turn-based than it likes to say), although I would be interested to see that.

edit: emoticons....

[Kingy]

As long as it resembles the rest of the Avernum series its got to be good.

[Rent-an-Ihrno]

ive seen at least 2 threads like this in the last month or so, but there you go.

 

what i wonder about the most is what the heck the plot will be like. i mean, the war is over, right?

 

and of the course the usual blahblah, more spells, more interaction options, more choosable races, no gf-stuff....

[Ephesos]

Hm... let's see, it'll be interesting to see how the rest of the Empire responds to the treaty with Avernum. After all, you can't expect everyone to have abided by it, and Prazac probably put herself in a difficult political position by making the treaty.

 

Other loose ends:

 

-Rentar-Ihrno isn't actually gone, just sulking (and what about peaceful Vahnatai?).

 

-The dragons spoke of a more intense revenge planned, and that was never really explained.

 

-The skribbane problem must be spreading through Valorim.

 

-There are still troglodytes and giants wandering around.

 

-The ruins of the plagues still need to be cleaned up (i.e.: all of Footracer Province)

 

-How did the rest of the Empire (outside of Valorim) react to this whole thing?

 

-What about the exodus from Avernum? Who will stay behind, and how will they deal with the Vahnatai?

 

I think Jeff has his work cut out for him story-wise, and I'd like to see any of those plot points cleaned up in A4.

[abbaon]

I hope Jeff brings back the time limit from A3. I love an RPG that discourages exploration.

[Lilith]

Okay, fess up. You're an old member who made a new account to troll, aren't you?

[ancient_elder]

heh i really loved A3 and the one biggest thing is what will the rest of the empire say and how will the people of avernum do out in the wild by themslves. You've got to remember empress prazac gave them the wild and untamed part of the empire.

[Drakefyre]

I agree - I think that it will have something to do with the Avernites that have settled in Valorim.

[VCH]

Perhaps there is a new ruler of the Empire. I think A4 will start with some small conflict between the Empire and Avernum. But then a common enemy will unite them, until the Empire is totally destroyed forcing the survivors to flee into Avernum. I hope Jeff improves the look of A4 interface and such. I really want something unique to A3.

[mistica]

well, i have seen this topic before i think... still, i hope in A4 i will finally get to know what the room behind the dragons hold.

new spells and weapons will be welcome, and new demons too... that are harder to slay.

new faces of the characters, and i would really like to see the sample name Aldous, Mycroft and Cordelia changed... reminds me of Aldous Huxley, Mycroft Holmes and Cordelia Lear,,LOL

 

what i do NOT want to change is the size and the engine... anything over A3 and my compu hangs like a strangled chicken in the middle of combat. PLEEEAAASEEE MR. Vogel, Have Mercy on me and dont bring in those stupid new graphics & stuff. just let those Tinny tots trot around the surface...

 

Oh, and 1 last request... cant we get more members??? i mean 4 is perhaps a challenge for me.5 or 6 might just solve my problem...

[Timmy, Power Gamer]

Well, Avernum would be alot easier with those numbers, like in the olden days of Exile. But the thing is, mage's are more overpowered in avernum. Just picture a team of 6 mage's, going in and Ice Lancing the slime pit, killing a possible 48 slimes per turn. that's not really how it's supposed to be done.

 

with 6 mages, they could run up, kill a mage, and you'd still have 5 in reserve. In my opinion, mages should be limit one, because of their power. They are the easiest to get rid of, but also the most powerful.

[Sullust]

Maybe Jeff will tell us a story of a war between Nephilim and Slith, and the discussion will finally be closed. If not that I'd prefer the game to take place somewhere besides the previous two locations. The ability to visit the areas would be nice, but they should not be the main part of the game...

[Rent-an-Ihrno]

thx mistica, i forgot to say i want higher monitor solutions (1152 x 870?)

[Mysterious Man]

I want a HUGE game. All of Exile, Upper Exile, and Valorim to be accessible.

[Kingy]

That'd probably end up being to big and to complete a quest you'd have to spend ages trying to rememeber where a certain place was, only to walk for 10 minutes and remember it was the other way.

[Dogbreath]

As much as I enjoyed the huge gameworld of A3 (an entire continant!), I already had trouble remebering where places were. If A4 plans on being any larger, I'd reccomend addding two new features - a map and a travel system. Basically, once you've explored an area, it saves the small map you see in the little box and adds it to a larger, full screen map of the entire gameworld. (perhaps even scrolling screen) Then, once you bring this up, you could click on any of the sections to get a detailed map and choose to "travel to" any given town that you've visited. (Except secret towns, or whatever)

 

This would help a lot with moving around, while making it so you still have to explore the gameworld. (Unlike Daggerfall, for instance)

[Walter]

Quote:

Originally written by abbaon:
I hope Jeff brings back the time limit from A3. I love an RPG that discourages exploration.

It doesn't really do that. I explored every single part of the outdoors, did every quest, and fully explored every single dungeon, finishing well before the tower of magi disaster. The only reasons you would be taking long enough for towns to be destroyed is if you don't use horses or spend a lot of time doing courier missions.

[JadeWolf]

I want a bigger game, a bigger demo ( though not much too big), more spells, the ability to wear more than one ring and the Vahnatai as a playable race.

[Drakefyre]

Quote:

Originally written by Lt. Sullust:
Maybe Jeff will tell us a story of a war between Nephilim and Slith, and the discussion will finally be closed. If not that I'd prefer the game to take place somewhere besides the previous two locations. The ability to visit the areas would be nice, but they should not be the main part of the game...

Nephils vs. Sliths part 4? Noooooo!

[Timmy, Power Gamer]

Maybe this time one will finish the other off!

 

The return of the stupidly overpowered Pachtar's Plate Mail!

 

Revenge of the Slith!

 

I'm not making any sense!

 

I'd like to see the return of dual wielding as well. Maybe, maybe not. BUT, I think It'd be cool to have this big group brawl between the characters of the previous games, to see who's stronger. (Watches the overpowered A3 combat system take over with Patchies Plate Mail and THE Halberd)

[Verelor]

Someone check out my new very large Suggestions List post. It took time! And effort!

[*]

I personally would LOVE to see a prequel... You've all read the stories, heard the history - what if you could be part of that first expedition, I think it was called.

 

A contraversial idea, I know, but an idea none the less.

[Mortimer]

Heck, even the story of the first Avernites, with a young King Micah(sp?), Erika, Patrick and them lot taking over the underworld from the demons. I could see you playing a party during that time that could actually win the scenerio, the First Expedition ... kind of just dies, painfully.

[Igor]

It's no wonder they died, all that useless xian crap weighing them down.

[Mortimer]

Um, I think we are talking about the first expedition into Avernum, the one you read about in Avernum 1 (well before X made the Xian items), not the first expedition onto the surface. Though maybe thats a possible scene too, who knows.

[Tom]

Well, the problem with playing the First Expedition to Avernum is the obvious fact that you would have to play to lose if you wanted to preserve any continuity with the existing games.

 

The problem with playing anything in Avernum after A2 is that Avernum has been covered twice now; everything that could be explored was explored, explored again, and if whatever baddie was in there wasn't cleaned out on the first shot, it was on the second (like the undead pit near Mertis). There's nothing left in Avernum that presents a significant challenge to anyone: the Slith Wars are over and most of the Sliths themselves are all gone, murdered by the thousands by the Empire; the Nephilim are either decidedly on Avernum's side or in small, isolated bands with no real structure or supply beyond basic subsistence; the dragons are all gone; the various undead problems have been sanctified out of existence or are about to be, because Avernum has quite a large number of competent magi and clerics--magic being, after all, Avernum's great strength; the Empire War is won and only isolated pockets of Empire resistance remain.

 

Let's not also forget that Avernum and Valorim already have bands of exceptional adventurers trolling through, keeping things civil. It was said in A3 that the adventurers from A2 were still roving around, cleaning things up and protecting the state. The adventurers from A3 undoubtedly will do something similar in Valorim; not only are they the saviours of Avernum, they are the saviours of the Empire as well. They should have no trouble at all moving anywhere and doing anything that needs to be done (like, say, forcing a regime change in Gale). I look at the speculation that A4 would have to do with restless people being upset with the Empress for allying with Avernum, but it seems to me that allying with Avernum was be the best thing to solidify her power. Avernum has proven now that it can destroy the Empire (look at A2), save the Empire (A3), and that no one, and no one is protected from its exceedingly long reach (A1 and A2, with Hawthorne (on his own throne!) and Garzahd, respectively).

 

With the rest of the Empire firmly under control, there is only one really feasible story on the surface: the dragons' revenge. It might be interesting to see how that plays out. The dragons will have their revenge, but with Avernum now allied with the Empire, would Avernum be obligated to come to the Empire's aid and slay the dragons? The problem with that is that it would make a nice scenario, but not much of a game.

 

The continuation of the Vahnatai story might be another outlet, but it's been done, obviously. However, Bon-Ihrno said that there was a faction that opposed Rentar-Ihrno's methods. That faction was growing smaller, but that only means that it was growing more desperate. Plus, if The Valley of Dying Things is to be taken as canon, there are other factions of Vahnatai who've never encountered humans before. Maybe Rentar-Ihrno, seeing her plans in ashes, will go to them looking for help, only to find them aghast at her actions, if not her motives, and thus we have a problem best solved by Vahnatai adventurers (which, I think, would be cool in the utter extreme).

 

The Sliths might be another way to go; they supposedly have a civilisation in caves even deeper than the Vahnatai (after all, one should bear in mind that Avernum covers old Vahnatai lands, and the current Vahnatai lands are only the next level down).

[Kingy]

What would be kind of fun is if people put their speculations and hopes of what they wanted from A4 into scenarios. It would be kind of fun to see who is the closest when the actual game is released. Obviously I don't mean the whole game type of thing, but maybe just a small section.

 

Edit: I know this isn't the place for this sort of thing but still - 200!

[Drakefyre]

Yes, the Rentar-Ihrno clan is only one clan of Vahnatai. There are other Vahnatai lands that are unexplored that could be the focus of Avernum 4. Or Avernum 4 could have nothing to do with Avernum or Avernites at all, and focus on problems that the Empire was having.

[Kelandon]

Quote:

Originally written by Tom:
the Slith Wars are over and most of the Sliths themselves are all gone, murdered by the thousands by the Empire;

According to ZKR, this isn't entirely true. The sliths come back a number of years after A3 and start a second war.

I'm betting the vahnatai come back in A4 and try to destroy the Empire again. If so, I will be annoyed.

[nikki.]

Maybe it could focus on the Empire's earlier days, when it wiped out the troglodytes the first time?

 

I think that it will definately take place in one of the other continents. I don't know how, what with them being settled, but Valorim is old hat. And with the exception of Exile (which is a much better name than Avernum), Jeff hasn't used the same location twice in any of his games.

 

Perhaps a pre- (or even post-) Empire world could work?

[Bender Bending Rodriguez]

Yeah, I like the idea of being the original expedition into avernum.

[Thralni]

Quote:

Originally written by Kelandon:
I hope with all of my hope that it stays turn-based and doesn't go into GF real-time. I hope that we can still control things with the keyboard and aren't required to use the mouse.

Now I really do agree with you, Kelandon. I hope he isn't going to change this, or it will ruin my Avernum pleasure. (this is also the reason I don't really like Geneforge).

I actually hope that the only thing that will really change is the story, and not so much the game itself.

[Alorael at Large]

A nitpick: Avernum hasn't proved that it can defeat the Empire. It has only proved that the Empire can't defeat it. A defensive war in singularly inhospitable territory is very different from attacking what amounts to the entire known world. Even the assassination is iffy. Hawthorne died at least in part because he was taken by surprise. Garzahd's death wasn't exactly subtle assassination. While adventurers are surprisingly good at slaughtering their way through an entire town/city/fortress/continent/world, Garzahd really should have made a surreptitious escape and left one of his body doubles.

 

Even if all the sliths in Avernum are dead, there's still the main slith civilization. There are plenty of vahnatai left. There's sure to be more strange things lurking in the stygian depths of Avernum. And there are three continents of the Empire that haven't been touched, although they should have been fairly well demagicked and sanitized by years of occupation.

 

—Alorael, who would also bet on vahnatai taking center stage again and who also would rather be wrong.

[Bender Bending Rodriguez]

I would much rather have the game involve the vahnatai or a new unexplored part of Avernum. The vast underground cave setting is what set the Avernum series apart from most RPGs, and without it the game is kind of stupid. That's not to say that the engine isn't great (which it is) The engine is brilliant and I hope that Jeff makes few changes.

[Dark Mage]

maybe could be a new part of avernum, that the empire used just as the other one without they know each other, the 2 parts could be neighbors or something like that.

 

anyway the idea of a region under vahnatai lands is quite interesting..

[Thralni]

As I already said, the story is what I want to see changed. By now, I think, the "Avernum vs the Empire" sort of thing is already done to much. We already were in the last stage of this story in BoA, and therefor, I think something new and maybe radical has to happen, to let things florish a bit. As was suggested, a new still undiscovered area of Avernum might be cool, but I think there should really be some new things about the Vahnatai. An ancient, very powerful society can't just disappear like that. It has to come back somehow. (Only this time, I hope there wouldn't be something like the second chapter of Av 2. Because that I found really irritating).

[Dark Mage]

hey if in avernum there was demons, why in avernum 4 there isn´t angels or something like that?

well i don't know it really...maybe is a stupid idea...

[Alorael at Large]

Because there have been demons all the way through, and because they are a staple of many mythologies and all generic fantasy, whereas angels tend to bring up a very specific mythology.

 

The engine is getting more than "a few changes." We're getting a new engine, for good or for ill. We have been promised some "sparkly," though until there is further evidence it may be considered pure advertising lies.

 

—Alorael, who would like to see an exploration of draconic sexuality with regards to their rather uncertain and changeable genders. That would make a good topic for A4 by itself!