Ineffable Wingbolt Upon Mars. Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 Which is the best Avernum game? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Alorael at Large Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 A2. Your poll happens to use moderately biased language and is missing BoA and A4, but my answer is the same whether or not you include anything past the trilogy. —Alorael, who wavers now and then but at the moment thinks A2 is his favorite Spiderweb game, period. Nethergate is very close, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chittering Clawbug Catweasle Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 This board is called "The Avernum Trilogy",so BoA and Avernum 4 do not belong here. In any case I agree with Alorael. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Tyran Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Sudanna Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 Avernum 1. The originals are always best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unflappable Drayk John S Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 Quote: Originally written by Dr. Strange:Avernum 1. The originals are always best. Well, since Avernum I isn't original anyway... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Emperor Tullegolar Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 Averum 3 had the biggest world, the best dungeons, and the most interesting plot. I don't understand why people prefer Avernum 2. Is it because it introduced the vahnatai? No, most people always complain about the vahnatai, and how they are always used as a deus ex machina. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Sudanna Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 It was the first in it's series, and that's close enough. Nethergate's still better, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Dikiyoba Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 Let Dikiyoba think abo... Avernum 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Randomizer Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 Avernum 2 out of the given choices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Emperor Tullegolar Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 Alright, now you're all just picking Avernum 2 out of peer pressure. This is a mispole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Ephesos Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 No, A2 is pretty much the best of the three (even when you include A4, actually). If BoA had been included (as it should have been), I would've been hard-pressed to decide... but A2 would probably still win. EDIT: Oh, and about the vahnatai. They were still novel in A2 (for those of us who hadn't played Exile), and they actually added quite a bit of flavor to the game. Personally, they were a great deal of what hooked me on the series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Callie Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 Avernum 3 is better. Like previously said, its bigger. There is also surface graphics (the previous two Avernums just had the basics) and a better variety of monsters. Avernum 4 sucks, its graphics are poor and the game is slow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Tyran Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 Quote: Originally written by Emperor Tullegolar:I don't understand why people prefer Avernum 2. Two words: Dark Waters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Emperor Tullegolar Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 What is so good about Dark Waters? Hydras and undead? Crystal soul tombs and Vahnatai sleeping chambers? Rapids? Do you just really like boats? Please explain the fascination to me. I enjoyed Avernum 2 as well, but mostly because of the bizarre Empire forts. I loved those. But even those were surpassed by Avernum 3's dungeons. You just can't beat the Filth Factory. Rentar is a genius. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Alorael at Large Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 Dark Waters is all about atmosphere. Mechanically it's nothing special, but the flavor is great. It was even more effective in E2 when losing all your food meant something. Not much, given easy access to Manna, but something. A3 is huge, but the vast majority of the towns are far too generic. The world itself is all pretty generic. It has fun dungeons and some good parts, but as a whole it just doesn't really work for me. Also, while seeing the exact effects of your items is nice, the inflated damage that leaves you doing 199 with a stick just didn't work for me. —Alorael, who doesn't think this is a mispoll. People should know enough by now to vote before reading the thread. Everyone's already biased towards A2 because it's so clearly the favorite here, of course, but bias on a neutral subject shouldn't do much unless there's actually some basis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Emperor Tullegolar Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 What is this 'flavor' you speak of? What makes it different from any other part of the game? Of course Avernum 3 was full of generic towns, it took place in the Empire! It made perfect sense, after all, if you tried to by anything more than 'Weaponsmith' you ran the risk of being thrown into Avernum. I think the blandness added as much to the atmosphere, if not more, than losing your food (which was much better in Nethergate than either Avernum or Exile anyway). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Randomizer Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 Dark Waters was a challenge in exploring while being cut off from help. Like the ZKR scenario in BoA you have to plan for the unknown since you can't go back for something you forgot. Of course after the first time you try to figure out how to maximize the loot without leaving behind something you will need to do everything. Now Exile 2 made you sell or take everything with you. There was no place to leave equipment behind until after Dark Waters. It required a little different strategy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Niemand Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 A2! I very much agree with Ephesos, Tyran, and Alorael about the atmosphere of it, particularly in the Dark Waters area. That, and locations like the Empire Archives and Halls of Chaos had a wonderful feeling of mystery. There were always interesting new surprises, like meeting null bugs for the first time, or stepping into the Archives and seeing the odd sight of the ice water floor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Lilith Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 ET, when you say things like "the blandness added to the atmosphere", it becomes fairly obvious that you're trolling. Besides, we all know that you only like A3 best because you've got the hots for <s>Calista</s>Rentar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Synergy Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 I voted for A3. I enjoyed the mixture of the cave world and the surface world. I enjoyed the vastness of the world and crossing waters. Some of those legendary quests were genuinely chilling, challenging, and exciting for me to fulfill. Pit of the Wyrm, etc. Very memorable stuff. The lasers, however, quickly outwore their welcome. I find the Vahnatai irritating, cheesy, and distracting from the fantasy world feeling. That may explain some of my lack of enthusiasm for the much-vaunted A2. -S- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Emperor Tullegolar Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 Quote: Originally written by Randomizer: Dark Waters was a challenge in exploring while being cut off from help. Oh, I get it now. This is one of those "it's better because it's more difficult" deals. Figures. I suppose if you prefer things like that to epic battles, cool dungeons, and mystery plot then Avernum 2 is the way to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unflappable Drayk The Loquacious Lord Grimm Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 Why E- I mean, A2, of course. A plot based in hope and desperation, the novelty of going off into the unknown to save the the world, the chance to trade insults with everyone's favorite witch, and listen to her peers grumble about her behind her back... But what I think I like the most is that A2 is a story about a bunch of nobodies who take a risk and end up being heroes. You just can't beat a fulfilling underdog story. -------------------- The Silent Assassin is tired of playing the role of Juliet, and would like to get off of the balcony now, thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk nikki. Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 I voted A2, but it was very nearly a vote for A3. My reasons are similar to those already expressed by people who also voted A2. The atmosphere was just amazing. It was the only Avernum game I felt claustrophobic in. Which, really, is the whole point. Quote: Originally written by Emperor Tullegolar: I suppose if you prefer things like that to epic battles, cool dungeons, and mystery plot then Avernum 2 is the way to go. Epic battles? Like the Zigguraut in A2 - the biggest battle in ANY Avernum game, and probably the biggest fight Jeff's coded? Cool Dungeons? Like the Halls of Choas? Or the Zigguraut again? Or any of the Empire forts where the Crystal souls were? Avernum didn't have any generic towns that I can think of, whereas maybe 75% of Valorim was packed with guys called "Merry" and cross-shaped houses. Mystery Plot? Like the whole idea of the Crystal Souls in A2? A3 might have been an okay "whodunnit"-kinda-thing, but A2 had the whole "mystery" thing down much better. And the fact you didn't win the war single-handedly was much more realistic than 4 people entirely destoying a Vahnatai war machine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Upon Mars. Posted March 2, 2007 Author Share Posted March 2, 2007 Hum... thank you for all of your suggestions. Are you sure ? All right i will by A2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Dintiradan Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 Quote: Epic battles? Like the Zigguraut in A2 - the biggest battle in ANY Avernum game, and probably the biggest fight Jeff's coded? Cool Dungeons? Like the Halls of Choas? Or the Zigguraut again? Or any of the Empire forts where the Crystal souls were? Avernum didn't have any generic towns that I can think of, whereas maybe 75% of Valorim was packed with guys called "Merry" and cross-shaped houses. Mystery Plot? Like the whole idea of the Crystal Souls in A2? A3 might have been an okay "whodunnit"-kinda-thing, but A2 had the whole "mystery" thing down much better. And the fact you didn't win the war single-handedly was much more realistic than 4 people entirely destoying a Vahnatai war machine. What Nikki said. Don't get me wrong, I like A1 and A3 as well, and parts of A1 and A3 I like better than parts of A2. But, overall, I just had a bit more fun playing A2 than I did A1 and A3. -------------------- Meta is a Greek word meaning "I will try to impress you by using Greek words". - Peter van der Linden Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Emperor Tullegolar Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 Quote: Originally written by Nikki: Epic battles? Like the Zigguraut in A2 - the biggest battle in ANY Avernum game, and probably the biggest fight Jeff's coded? I don't consider a battle epic just because you are having hordes and hordes of foot soldiers thrown at you. I mean epic boss battles. You guys talk about atmosphere, how about the Rentar/Erika duel, in which your measly characters were powerless, your only goal to survive long enough to reach that panel. I also thought the alien slime was cool, despite not being particularly difficult. Quote: Cool Dungeons? Like the Halls of Choas? Or the Zigguraut again? Or any of the Empire forts where the Crystal souls were? I already admited the Empire Forts were cool (none of them were in Dark Waters) but I still think Avernum 3's dungeons are superior. The Filth Factory is my personal favorite, but how about all those artifact dungeons. I'll admit Avernum 3 loses points for not having the Tower of Shifting Floors, but still. Quote: And the fact you didn't win the war single-handedly was much more realistic than 4 people entirely destoying a Vahnatai war machine. But you did win the war single-handedly, without Gharzad and that portal, the Empire was hurting. And I thought you liked underdog stories? Weren't you intimidated by the fact that you had to accuse not one, but three of the most powerful being in the world of making the mosters? Crossing that bridge to see the legendary Erika only to accuse her of a crime, or wading through lava to meet the most powerful of dragons, knowing you're about to piss her off, that's atmosphere. Edit: Really, the 'Vahnatai war machine" was pretty much just Rentar and a couple of friends (whom you quickly dispatched). That's why I liked Avernum 4 so much, too. You had the feeling when you met her that she was really lonely, no one was helping her, and she was hurt by that. You beat her because she was one mage, powerful, but still one mage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Alorael at Large Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 Both Avernums (actually, all three) have some great dungeons. Let's call it a wash. A2 has Garzahd (twice), Angierach's assorted nasties, Limoncelli, the Ziggurat, and Gaddika. All of those fights make sense in the plot and provide a real challenge. A3 has the Bojar, the Alien Slime, Elhioc, the huge battles between the troglos and giants (the best of the game, in my opinion, even though you don't have to do anything but run), the crystal in the Golem Factory, three crystal souls you aren't supposed to kill, and Rentar. Most of the fights aren't too exciting, really. Mystery? Maybe, but A3's plot is so unobtrusive that you can ignore it until the answer is handed to you on a silver plate. It also becomes fairly obvious from the increasingly heavy evidence (not the special item evidence, things like vahnatai cloaks left here and there) from the Filth Factory onwards. —Alorael, who would actually strongly recommend starting with A1 rather than A2. It's best to start with the beginning, and A1 isn't much worse at all. In fact, the only thing it's really missing is a quest log. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Enraged Slith Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 Was Limoncelli harder in Exile 2 or Avernum 2? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Lilith Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 Obligatory Alorael double-post post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Randomizer Posted March 3, 2007 Share Posted March 3, 2007 Quote: Originally written by Enraged Slith:Was Limoncelli harder in Exile 2 or Avernum 2? He was harder to get to in Exile since if you wanted to maximize looting, then you have to fight the first level more than once to reach the upper floor. Avernum 2 simply increased the patrols outside after you start attacking the fort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasoned Roamer runner Posted March 3, 2007 Share Posted March 3, 2007 Avernum 3 because the storyline was simply more interesting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Emperor Tullegolar Posted March 3, 2007 Share Posted March 3, 2007 Quote: Originally written by Alorael: three crystal souls you aren't supposed to kill I think these were the hardest fight ever. I actually had to save, edit my characters back to health, and reload a few times for this one. Quote: Most of the fights aren't too exciting, really. Well, that's kind of harsh. I don't even think you believe that. What makes you say this? The Garzahd fights were some of the worst in the series. Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of the man and his work, but he had a crappy final battle compared to Rentar and even Hawthorne. His whole final fortress was boring, too. Limoncelli was pretty cool, but mostly because of the little description boxes that came up describing what he looked like and how he died. Avernum 3 had the Tower of Zkal (not only an awesome dungeon but a real challenge for those masochists out there), that one drake's castle, and lets not forget the Monestary of Madness (you know you love it). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Slarti Posted March 3, 2007 Share Posted March 3, 2007 Quote: Originally written by Emperor Tullegolar:Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of the man and his work, but he had a crappy final battle compared to Rentar and even Hawthorne. His whole final fortress was boring, too. Limoncelli was pretty cool, but mostly because of the little description boxes that came up describing what he looked like and how he died. Garzahd's final battle sucked in A2 because it wasn't designed to be fought like that. Garzahd's stats in E2 were drastically different, and the suggested method for beating him (mindduelling) was purged entirely from A2. The fortress wasn't great, but were the others better? At least it wasn't full of pylons. Agreed about Limocelli, though. He was done well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Alorael at Large Posted March 3, 2007 Share Posted March 3, 2007 Both the games have great dungeons. It's not worth bringing them all up. My objections to A3's important battles? In order... Bojar was a generic wizard who happened to get a name. Quick fight, nothing special. The Alien slime is just a lot of pounding with occasional detours to kill the spawned slimes. Boring and not difficult. Elhioc was at least hard. The golem crystal was hard to fight, but it's more of a puzzle since you can kill it with lasers and not get your hands dirty. Rentar should be an "epic" fight, but you're not actually supposed to kill her. She summons faster than you can kill. The result is that it's pointless to actually engage in combat. All you do is slog slowly towards the control panel. —Alorael, who doesn't actually think Avernum has any truly exciting and necessary battles. A4 started making fights more interesting, but before that there really just isn't much. The Ziggurat, the troglos and giants, and Rentar are huge battles, but otherwise they're nothing but more hack and slash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Callie Posted March 3, 2007 Share Posted March 3, 2007 I think the golem factory is cool. You have to navigate through conveyor belts ad try not to fall into the lava pool in the center. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Xaiya Posted March 3, 2007 Share Posted March 3, 2007 Avernum 2 was the best in my opinion. A3 was too...simple. A2 was more creative, and the plot was better too. (and I am voting like crazy, I even voted excalibur as 3star) Edit -fixed the typo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Emperor Tullegolar Posted March 3, 2007 Share Posted March 3, 2007 Quote: —Alorael, who doesn't actually think Avernum has any truly exciting and necessary battles. A4 started making fights more interesting, but before that there really just isn't much. The Ziggurat, the troglos and giants, and Rentar are huge battles, but otherwise they're nothing but more hack and slash. Bashing the whole series at once to disprove my points isn't proving how Avernum 2 is the best. I still don't understand what you see in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Synergy Posted March 3, 2007 Share Posted March 3, 2007 Isn't it marvelous how incomprehensibly different we all are? -S- AFTERTHOUGHT: Except you people who like A2 the best. You're all the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Alorael at Large Posted March 4, 2007 Share Posted March 4, 2007 Quote: Originally written by Excalibur:I think the golem factory is cool. You have to navigate through conveyor belts ad try not to fall into the lava pool in the center. In E3, yes. In A3, conveyor belts were replaced by lasers as the golem gimmick. The Factory is therefore much less glitchy but stilll mind-bendingly frustrating, and only sometimes in a good way. Quote: Originally written by Emperor Tullegolar:Bashing the whole series at once to disprove my points isn't proving how Avernum 2 is the best. I still don't understand what you see in it. I've explained what I see in it, and you obviously disagree. Bashing the whole series wasn't trying to prove my point, it was a commentary on the battles as a whole. They range from mindless to challenging and somewhat interesting, but there really aren't any that made me really think that something incredibly neat was being done. —Alorael, who now thinks back on Nethergate and realizes that one of its strengths is that it relies very little on killing a single important enemy. The only important killings are Castle Aethdoc, which can involve more subtle assassination; Samael, who isn't a fight at all; and the final battle in the Spire of Ages, which also isn't really about critical characters. The most important enemies you face are your four counterparts that you never meet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Lilith Posted March 4, 2007 Share Posted March 4, 2007 On the Celtic side I'd also include the crones on the list of important people for you to kill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Emperor Tullegolar Posted March 4, 2007 Share Posted March 4, 2007 Between those that play these games only for the combat and those like Alorael who don't seem to know the meaning of the word battle, I'm going to have to agree with Synergy on this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenderfoot Thahd Arwcwb Posted March 6, 2007 Share Posted March 6, 2007 Exile three started me off on Spidweb games. I have a soft spot for Avernum three because of that. I also like how huge the world is, especially compared to Avernum. Avernums still great, I just find I explore everything fairly quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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