Automatic game creation potential?

[nick777]

The idea of automatic game/scenario game creation intrigues me.

 

If anyone remembers the game/program Adventure Construction Set by Stuart Smith (mid 80's), you could make games with sub-areas within the game. There was also an option to have the computer finish making the game for you (or make the whole thing). The scenarios frequently didn't make sense as to the storyline, but it was fun exploring the zones and fighting the monsters.

 

I once read that soap operas could be written with a program...sort of like a mad lib type thing...blanks could basically be filled in, and plots could be chosen or randomized to make stories.

 

Seems to me like something like this would be really cool, and a way to generate new Spidweb type games to play while we are waiting for another release! What do you think?

[Lazarus.]

This reminds me, whatever happened to Blades of Rogue?

[Niemand]

To be honest, I don't think that there's any practical way to automatically generate BoA scenarios that have anything more to them than hacking and slashing. After all, it would not be an easy project to generate dialogue scripts with conversations that made any sense, or to have a program write new creature scripts that did anything very new or interesting.

 

That being said, I am personally working (slowly!) through the beta testing stages of a scenario inspired by Rogue which generates random levels as you play. I thas however, no significant plot, and utilizes only a small subset og the game's full capabilities.

 

Edit: (While I tried to get past the wall of 'internal server error's Lazarus got a post in first.) Blades of Rogue is trapped in beta testing because the Windows version of the game has problems with it. It appears to be unable to handle the sheer awesomeness. More seriously, it's nearly unplayable on Windows, and as far as I've been able to tell, the problems aren't my fault, but I still don't know why they're happening.

[Ephesos]

I think it's a cool idea, and I think Niemand's Blades of Rogue already kinda does that. At least, it does it to the extent to which we are currently capable, even acknowledging that we're basically doing things to Blades of Avernum that Blades of Avernum doesn't like having done to it.

 

But I think the biggest limitation to this idea is that it's really hard to generate a meaningful story from it, even more so and sort of cohesive atmosphere. And those are the things that (at least in my mind) have defined SW games up to this point. I mean, once Blades of Rogue gets stabilized on Windows (if it's possible), then I suppose there could be more talk of making it more complicated. And really, Niemand's the one to handle that, and as he said, all you get is hack'n'slash.

 

Anyway, hello and welcome to the boards ('cause I haven't seen you around before).

[Callie]

Yeah, we'd have to research digital sentience first.

 

EDIT: I doubt digital sentience is possible, but at least it is in SMAC.

[Jeran Korak]

Blades of Rogue?

[Randomizer]

Quote:

Originally written by The square route of nothing:
Blades of Rogue?

This is an unreleased Blades of Avernum scenario where a single character moves through randomly generated dungeon levels in search of the Amulet of Yendor as in Rogue-like games. This version doesn't have all the features that you see in other Rogue games like magic shops where you can sell and buy goods. Maybe in the later versions.

I can't see why it's having problems in Windows.

[Lazarus.]

Been a while since I looked at it, but it was quite quirky as I remember. Spontaneous errors when monsters drop items was probably the biggest problem.

 

That said I got through thirty-some levels I think, so it's not THAT buggy.

[Balladeer]

What about just an automatic terrain creation? Where you can tell it you want so many outdoor sections, and so many towns, and so many cave dungeons. Then once the terrain is built by the computer, the author builds their story around it.

 

It could include people and monsters but the author has the responsibility to work them into the story or adjust the design. Kinda like how civilazation builds a world that you now have to populate.

 

A pre-scenario building tool.

[Celtic Minstrel]

That's an interesting but quite different idea. I do like the idea of a Blades of Rogue, I think. An automatic terrain generator cannot be done with AvernumScript, though, because AvernumScript does not modify the scenario file. It would have to be a separate application that uses code from the editor. It's interesting, but may not be worth the effort.

[Niemand]

Quote:

Originally written by Randomizer:
This version doesn't have all the features that weren't in Rogue anyway like magic shops where you can sell and buy goods.

FYT (Which is not something I do, as a general rule, but BoR does actually capture a large fraction of the major features of Rogue, excluding traps, food, darkness, carrying the amulet back to the surface, and duplicating the monster list, among a few others. Some were too difficult, and some, like food, were just to freakishly annoying.)

With regard to BoR's windows problems, I don't have any idea why these things are happening, as I haven't been able to identify any way that my scripts or other resources could be causing them, but I haven't really had time to attack the problem.

I think that Jewelz' idea was intended to be implemented with an external program, which would write out a .bas file that the author would then fill in detail for. I still think it would be ridiculously difficult for little payoff, but it's entirely doable.

[Aran]

Quote:

Originally written by Lazarus.:
it's not THAT buggy.

Doesn't it redefine the concept of a bug, with its automap clearing stuff?

[Aran]

Quote:

Originally written by Celtic Minstrel:
That's an interesting but quite different idea. I do like the idea of a Blades of Rogue, I think. An automatic terrain generator cannot be done with AvernumScript, though, because AvernumScript does not modify the scenario file. It would have to be a separate application that uses code from the editor. It's interesting, but may not be worth the effort.

Hello? set_terrain.

If I remember it right, I actually put out this challenge first. Well, actually I just talked about how it might be technically possible but insanely impractical, but in the vicinity of hardened designers that comes to the same thing.

I worked on a rogue-like dungeon generator once that got as far as creating frilled rectangle rooms, connecting them with corridors and walling them. I didn't have the perseverance or skill to stick to the task the way Lazarus did with BoR, however.

[Celtic Minstrel]

I know about set_terrain. But it affects the current state of the town (or outdoor section). Jewlelz was, I believe, referring to a program to generate a .bas file with random towns (as Niemand pointed out). This cannot be done with AvernumScript - it is entirely outside of its sphere of influence.

 

• A rogue-like game, where the terrain is generated at runtime, is possible with AS.
• A program to generate terrain which can then be used to create a scenario in the editor, is not possible with AS.

[Niemand]

Quote:

. . . the way Lazarus did with BoR

Ahem. I think we all need to be reading each others' posts a little more carefully today. Actually, looking closely myself, maybe just Aran needs to.

[Randomizer]

Any chance that you will release BoR as a Mac only version as incentive for the rest to convert? Except for a few minor glitches it worked fine. The unidentified items could be identified using the character editor.

[Aran]

I plead 22 hours uptime. Senses shut down.