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alhoon

GF2 - My playthrough (full of spoilers)

243 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

What I meant is that I got the same Dialogue from Barzahl. I couldn't rat out the canister-addled gorilla and tell Barzahl, "I found evidence that thing lied to you, Shanti was humiliated and murdered; not died in an accident, not executed legally."

 

All I can say is that "the story stinks! I want to challenge that huge, Shaped-to-lolness guy in a one-to-one fight without creations" which seems a not nice way to make a suicide. I am a Shaper, I can't fight alone. Or actually fight for that manner. My battle magic is still pathetically low. I cast blessings on my creations in battles and try to not block their path to the enemy.

Edited by alhoon

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You're doing something wrong. Because through the dialogue options with Barzahl and Stanis, you totally can "challenge that huge, Shaped-to-lolness guy in a one-to-one fight." And if you don't want it to be a fair one-vs.-one fight, maybe you should poke around for a way to turn to the tide.

Oh, I misread your last post. More punctuation and capitalization would have helped with that. So you found the option to challenge Stanis. You are just offended that Barzahl won't do the dirty work of executing him for you. Well, sorry, but you'll have to do this on your own. As I said, though, if you don't want to fight a fair one-on-one fight, find a way to make it less...one-on-one.

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Posted (edited)

Awesome... I don't care about what they will think of me anyway.

And it's not dirty work to rat out someone. I plan to eventually kill Barzahl anyway. Or, ahem, have those 4 drayks he keeps in pain to do the dirty  noble work for me. Poetic justice and all. Because it just that I don't face someone that powerful. :p

 

I will try have him killed by Heust Blade, my Servile follower. I will keep loading till that Barzite dies from a servile. In hindsight, that's not much better than what he did to Shanti, but ... well, I can't defend that. It's more about revenge than justice here. I would also have killed Shanti and I want the Barzite to die a humiliating death.

:(

I blame the canisters.  

 

EDIT: OK, I know that you all told me to cut down on the Edits, but this happened and made me think it's a bug:

Trying to go to the Arena, I accidentally clicked on what I thought was a random guard. He wasn't. He was a Barzite Guardian that have gone full-canister mad, Trotkan. I told him I don't think he's a real guardian and he attacked me. Having a full roaster, I didn't think much of it, until I saw two Alphas from the guards approaching and I thought "Oh, oh... if all the guards turn hostile to support the Barzite I'm in trouble". Well, they weren't. They attacked the Barzite. I may have messed with the controls of the torture pylons but since I didn't get a message now that the Pylons are bad, I think it was a bug of the form of "creature turns hostile, friendly creatures attack it".

In case it isn't and it has to do with the Pylons: Can I later do the Barzite ending (if I ever find the courage to join them) or I have locked that out half-way through the game?

Edited by alhoon

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I suppose it's revenge if that's your intention, but might it not also be that you, as the lawful representative of the Shaper Council, are carrying out a just execution of a confessed, unrepentant murderer?

Why do think this is bug? Friendly creatures are known to attack hostiles. If one NPC turned into a hostile, it seems logical and normal, not buggy, that the friendly guard NPCs would attack it.

 

Re: the brass pylons: you must construct additional...oh wait, that's a meme, not advice. As long as no one catches you, messing with the pylons won't hurt your standing with the Barzites.

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Posted (edited)

:sick:

How dare you sir!? I am not a lawful representative of the oppressive, evil, genocidal regime that kills PhD candidates. I have turned my back to these snakes. I would have killed Agent Shanti myself if I had the chance, to give more time to my friends to prepare for the Litapocalypse.

If I had a monocle, a tall hat and a cane I would challenge you to a duel over this. (I have a goatee so that part is OK)

 

I think it may be a bug because I assumed the creatures would be -neutral- not friendly. If they're friendly, then all I have to do to get people killed is turn them hostile (without turning the guards hostile).

 

 

EDIT: Not nice. I feel again as I was feeling when doing Shaper quests in GF4. That is, guilty. OK, Stanis was a butthole. But the way he died? As it played out, betrayed by me as I sabotaged the machinery since I was as much a coward as he said and my Vlish were keeping him immobilized while my servile was hitting him with acid.

That's a bad way to go... Sure, Shanti suffered the same indignation, but I wish I was better than Stanis. At least, he will get a grave.

 

Edited by alhoon

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Posted (edited)

Clockwork maze:
Drakon cyborg. Lol.
Oh Come on! I wandered through this clockwork maze and I found the anticlimatic ending... the brilliant, Taygen-level brilliant, shaper was dead. From old age.
And the whole complex is nice and empty and the golems are now damaged (because I deactivated their sensors) meaning the Bazrites can move in.

Question: There's a nice (incomplete) golem there. Is it one of the creatures I could take with me? Cause I don't see any dialogue for fixing it. I have high mechanics and read Kari's notes but there's not an option.


Sharon's ring: For all that's holy! That's among the three best artifact I've seen in 4 games!
I have now (if I don my specialized equipment) 15 leadership and 16 mechanics. I don't need to worry about raising them any more right? 12 or so was the top needed in he previous games except veeery few things.


It's official: Sharon is my favorite GF2 Shaper. Perhaps favorite Shaper.


Toll road:
If found my first Drakon-that-talks. Dryss. He doesn't draw s' always. Strange. He shook me for 500 coins though. I had a ton of leadership and couldn't avoid it.
A pity Drakon doesn't share Dryss' view of "That we're stronger than Serviles doesn't mean we get to bully them!"
And afterwords the $%^#! creature told me there are Drayks there that they will attack me, he just won't ask them to attack me...


My 23 lvl creations have like 5% to 10% chance to hit the Drayks without bless. :/ Why Drayks that I could make are nowhere that close?
Beyond that place is an infested roads that I have real trouble crossing, so I'll leave it for the time.


Talked with the awakened about joining. Two sensible, easy quests that I can totally avoid with leadership. Since I have killed the Drayk already, I am more than easily accepted if I want to join...
Talked with the Takers about joining. Quest to join? Go kill Barzahl by freeing the creations. Good one Takers, good one.  I have sabotaged the controls which deactivates the option to break them. They may still join me, but I don't think that I can take Barzahl out already.

 

 

 

Edited by alhoon

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Aha, aha. So which will it be? The Takers or the Awakened?

FYI, sabotaging the brass post control system as you did should give you an edge if you dare to challenge Barzahl. You did what you're supposed to do and didn't miss anything in terms of breaking them.

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Posted (edited)

I would love to see Barzahl dying by the 4 Drayks he keeps in pain, and thinking of it, the Gorilla is gone, so I think it would be me and the Drayks if I attack him.

 

I will "officially" join he Awakened; that would be my "main" ending.

The rest I would do for completion and to see more of the material. But I am exploring still a few of the zones. I figured that I am too low in level yet. Sure, with my leadership and mechanics I should be able to find the non-combat routes. But they are often hard to find so I prefer to level up a bit and some of the zones are interesting (while some are boring and some are frustrating; I am in an icy place where I am swarmed by a dozen high level Fyoras and later on, several drayks).

 

And I want to See Barzahl's face when the Drayks turn against him. And since I can't see his face, I want to read the text.

And I want to see lying Zakary the deceiver's tears as he begs for his useless life. And since I can't see them, I want to read the text of him... well, dying since I doubt I'll get much out of him.

I joined the Awakened to see what they ask once I join... but they didn't ask me to kill anyone. They want me to sabotage the radiant college so that they can't make canisters. Or, failing that, kill the leaders but they don't care if they survive. I don't know why they didn't ask me to kill Barzahl. Then I loaded. I am still unaligned. I will soon join the Awakened, cause to explore the Takers lands I need to be way tougher than I am it seems.

Edited by alhoon

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Posted (edited)

OK, I take it back... I found a token in the icy pit that allows me to explore further the Taker lands so I still haven't joined. In any case, here's the important part:

 

Gazak-Uss: There's a servile. A hermit. He told me a wild story about Gazak-Uss. About mad creations made by the Barzites and the Takers and dumped there, sealed. Something about the key shattered. About a "door" the "that is where world lies entombed". Some mumblings and half-words about getting in there only if the others thought I would kill -?-

And there's the GF5 capital called Gazaki-Uss in loving memory of the Litalia'd Gazak-Uss.

I bet that's where Ghaldring is. I will totally go there. I'm not leaving this accursed valley till I check that place that learned Thani hyped so much.

 

 

Another thing, Question about build: At the time I'm with 5 Vlish, my 26th level Cryora and Heust Blade (one of my most reliable "creations" so to speak, that hits with 75% when others hit with 25%) I am also at 18 intel thanks to a couple of charms and I sit on ~300 excess essence.

One of my Vlish is "expendable"; I can make and remake it. Sacrifice it if needed to transfer people.

However, there's a Tulda-forged servile I could get to join me once I join the Awakened.

Should I ditch the Cryora that by that time would be like 27-28 lvl? Should I ditch one of my 5 vlish?

 

Should I start thinking on other creations other than the Vlish army? (A newly shaped Vlish costs hilariously little essence and is 21st lvl. Since it's expendable and I can very easily afford 9 essence, I could enhance the expendable)

 

Perhaps exchanging Icerim (27 lvl Cryora, have him for 16 levels) with a 26 lvl Drayk? If I manage to betray my poor cryora that is.

75 essence (Drayk with 2 int) vs 39 essence (Cryora) when I have ~300 essence to spare.

 

EDIT: Nevermind, my problem was solved. I can now make Drakons 8)

Well worth it. Sorry Icerim... it was not meant to be. Litalia would have killed you anyway.

 

Edited by alhoon

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Interesting. So you'll join the Awakened even though you believe the Takers are more pragmatic and likely to survive?

Also, Gazak-Uss is the challenge area for G2 - the optional, totally unnecessary, has nothing plot relevant, chock-full of the most deadly monsters in the whole game, zone. Just FYI.

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Posted (edited)

Whaa... ?!

Isn't it the big-showdown area? Where everything comes to head? I thought that's where the geneforge would be. :(

Why the Drakons called Gazaki-Uss after that place if it's indeed, as some NPCs say just a wasteland that Drakons and Shapers threw their most powerful rogues and locked the door?

:( 

 

 

Thank you for the warning though. I will probably avoid it. I can't believe that I was caught in the hype...

 

Awakened: It was not an easy choice. I don't agree 100% with the Awakened, mind you. They are right next to the entrance and have just a few tuldaforged mages. Litalia et Co would wipe the floor with them if they come in numbers. The "I ran away" ending told me that 12 Guardians are in the first wave. Well, 12 Guardians could take down Medab.

Edited by alhoon

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OK, I know the answer to this is a 99.5% a "lol no!"...

But for that 0.5% I have to ask: Is there any mod that makes Gazak-Uss more plot-worthy? I was stunned that it's the Samman's Isle of GF2 while it is so hyped up and even carries to GF5. Or at the very least a mod that makes it less choke-full of monsters or easier?

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I don't play GF2, admittedly, but I'm going to go with no, there is no GF2 mod out there that makes Gazak-Uss more plot-worthy and less of a Challenge Zone, at least to my knowledge. Though making the zone easier isn't going to be hard, considering that all you have to do is lower the level of the creations that attack you there. Or just remove some of the nastier abilities I imagine some of the monsters there have, which can also be done relatively easily. Making it more plot-worthy would probably take more time to do, all things considered. 

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Gazak-Uss is retroactively plot-important, as I found it was confirmed as becoming Gazaki-Uss by, I believe, Ghaldring himself (or some other important rebel).

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Posted (edited)

In Shath's Wastes I found a very interesting "toy" that can make creations unreliable. The text tells me that it won't be enough to stop Litalia et al and that it's not the first time people try to use such magic. :/ It did a number on me, I can tell you that.
Later on, I found more trolling by the game creator: Opening a vat in a small building. Vlish I could take down with 2 hits. Next vat? A Rotdhizon. Killed me before I even realized what was happening.


Hmm... Learned Shath tells me the Taker serviles are not aware on how the Drayks and the Drakons make their experiments Shaper-like...
And then I found the first ever Eyebeast I encountered in Geneforge games... No description at all except "The Eyebeast moves towards you menacingly". Not the greatest introduction about these guys that I've heard about in several games and just now met.


********

Awakened. At last. Doomed or not, these people are the closest to my beliefs. If they were a bit more Taker-ish and a bit more power-hungry, perhaps they could have made it. We'll see.

 

I was Tuldaforged! And then I loaded cause aaaaaall being transformed gave me was the ability to learn spells that I don't have the skill to cast. It could at least give me some blessing magic or something. I can't cast those spells and most of them are not useful to me anyway.
After that much hype, the transformation was "meh". Simply unlocking abilities. Poor Awakened. :( No wonder they didn't survive as an ideology despite Pinar's small dock. Canisters are much better than Tuldaric's "transformation" that just unlocks abilities. Canisters give abilities.

 

Regardless, I'm not abandoning them to run to Takers. At least not yet. I was told about the "Barrier of the Winds" or something similar. Probably a super-weapon or super-defense to stop Litalia. Would I be able to change history and save my friends? Time will tell.
If it's another "meh, buddies that can't save you from the Litapocalypse" I may decide to jump ship and join the Takers after all. We'll see. From what I've seen in this place, Takers (having a geneforge from what I saw in the map) have by far the best chance. The Barzites can barely control their creations and can barely control their Shapers. Thinking of it, after sabotaging the pylons to fail under strain, it's a matter of time before the place descents into chaos.
The Barzites seem to have bought more than they can chew. They were too reckless with the canisters, too ambitious with the Creation armies.

 

As a note, Golems are completely underwhelming in this game compared to GF4-5 that they had waaay more health. They're more or less like good alphas.

 

Edited by alhoon

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Poor Tuldaric... He did so much for the Serviles before he lost his mind. The best Shaper I've never met. Not that the Tuldaric I met ranks as a bad Shaper, mind you, but I really would love to meet the sane, Awakened Tuldaric that removed the magic barriers from the Serviles, gave them golems to help them build the flying drakons etc.

 

As for the Barrier of the winds... :(
Unless I miss something, while useful, this will certainly not be enough to stop the Shaper council. And the first mission being "one went rogue, we can't control it, please help" doesn't seem promising* on the new drakons sanity either.
The Shapers will simply overwhelm the Awakened with seer numbers as they have way more Shapers in their ranks.


At least so far, it seems that the Awakened are unprepared for what is coming; both by the other two factions that have several powerful creations and extremely powerful individuals and by the Shaper Council.

 

Why is nobody investing in Spawners? That I don't understand. A Spawner is a Shaper. The only spawners I've seen have been made from the Takers to troll their enemies. Sure, the creations are rogues but those rogues don't harm Drayks in GF2. And it seems the GF3 variants weren't harming Litalia (although she could have put them up and left quickly).


* I led the poor creature out. Of course, leaving a confused drakon alone in the wilds is not the safest thing to do, but it has a good chance to go to the Takers.

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1 hour ago, alhoon said:

Why is nobody investing in Spawners?

 

Well, that explains a few things, I suppose...

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So the Barrier of Winds seems like a bad idea to you, but using more spawners sounds like a good idea? :rolleyes: Hmm.

If you've seen the Barrier of Winds and are underwhelmed, well, that's it as far as the Awakened are concerned. That's their secret plan to defend themselves; there are no further big reveals for them.

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Posted (edited)

Yeah, their secret plan seems well enough to defend them from the Takers and the Barzites... if they had their drakons ready already and were making more. But both the Takers and the Barzites have many of the non-flying Drakon variety, Rots, Gazers + ,much more (canisters \ geneforge). So while the flying Drakons would be well enough to "defend the narrow valleys", normal drakons and Gazers would also work. It's just that flying Drakons could move faster to "hot spots" but the Takers and the Barzites still have number superiority.

 

 

As for Spawners... worked for the Monarch. Remember that. :) And for the early Rebellion. I am not saying "more spawners is a good idea" (it kinda is...) I am saying "better spawners is a good idea". They are so good that by GF5, Alwan uses them. And the ones Alwan uses start creating creatures on command, not constantly. That kind of Spawner would be a very good idea.

Frankly, the Awakened have very few Shapers.

 

But all in all, I can't wait to see the Awakened Ending. Could it be that we won? We will see.

Edited by alhoon

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Marjan: Why is that Servile so afraid of the Awakened? L.Varkan told me he's unstable. He doesn't seem completely sane true, but he calls the Barrier of the winds "My prison".


But I felt really good when I heard L.Varkan say that the air will be thick with Drakons ready to defend the Awakened. Thinking of it, a strong show of force has a slight chance to convince the Shapers to stay away and forget about the Serviles of Medhab. Or at least, earn the Serviles a few years of freedom before the Shapers decide to violate any truce and destroy them for good.


Meh, the final quest (Kill the Taker bosses) seems near-impossible for someone that blazed through the game without picking up items from the floor or clearing areas for XP.
On the other hand... I have my leadership and mechanics at legendary levels (like 15 or so). I may have to do this the non-combat way.
I am surprised L.Pinnar didn't tell me to destroy the Geneforge. I mean, OK, kill the 3 insane Drayks (Syros is exempt for some reason). What stops the Drakons from making new ones? As insane as the previous ones with an axe to grind.
Syros is not targeted though.

And then, "we are ready to meet the outside world"
O_O HECK NO!, we are not! We have like ... 40 drakons? 50? 100? With Takers still around and angry and Barzites with their armies (that I sabotaged on my own).
With the Barrier of the Winds we'll be able to hold off the weakened Takers, for a time, and the Barzites since I sabotaged their armies although nobody asked me to. Get attacked by Shapers? We're toast.


Beneri-Uss Entry: 4 guardian statues. :/ Who would think the Takers would honor the Shapers? It is kinda sloppy IMO to put those there. Fancy columns would do better, or nothing at all.
Of course, the next step I take, I find my target: Rakkhus. Surrounded by a good dozen creations. Load. Go through the pantry. Rakkhus walks in... alone. My Vlish keep him immobile and My drakons make short work of him. :/


Beneri-Uss Shaping: Exactly what I was afraid of. A geneforge + Puresteel refining and a Shaping facility to dwarf the Barrier of Winds. The Awakened were stumbling even before the takers had the chance to put this facility to use.
It seems it was a sprint contest in the valley of who would finalize and create mass Shaping facilities. But unlike the Awakened, the Barzites had their canisters and the Takers are making a Geneforge and Puresteel. And both seem more agressive in their Shaping. And Takers have Spawners.
I wish there is an option or something to make the Awakened take over Beneri-Uss and the armories of the Barzites. That would perhaps be enough to hold off the Shapers infinitely.
Cause while the Drypeaks have some vats that make powerful creations in time... the Shapers can send hundreds of Shapers to spam hundreds of tier2 and tier3 creations led by thousands of soldiers... and I am not sure those vats are making creations fast enough.


If the Takers can't stop Litalia et co, with a geneforge, the drakons and puresteel, after the Shapers went through the loyalists, Awakened, Barzites... then I am afraid the Barrier of winds will not be enough.

 

The Taker Drakons seem to be as ruthless as in later games in experimentation on their own kind and eliminating weakness. Good grief, I'm glad I aligned with the Awakened even if they're the less probable to survive.

 

Easss & Akkat: Meh, pretty underwhelming fights. Thinking of it, perhaps there was a mechanical way to kill Easss with the geneforge or use a captive rotdhizon to fight Akkat. I explored much of the Geneforge, but I will leave Benerii-Uss Holding for later.
On the way down, I went by Rising. In fact I went Razing Rising. The moment hostilities started, the place crumbled like a ripe fruit. Barzahl's fight was completely underwhelming... I wonder whether the script was broken. OK, I've stolen all his creations and I was facing him alone with a full stack on my side. But he didn't shape anything. He barely DID anything except to miss a couple of times on my Drakons as they cut him to pieces. Fighting Drakons or Gazers was more challenging than fighting Barzahl.
And there was no "Barzahl dies!" text. :( No key or anything. There are doors there that I can't open. And Geth was NOT hostile although I trashed Rising and killed their boss.

 

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Posted (edited)

:rolleyes: Learned Pinnar asked me to go and be an envoy to the Shaper Council.

Seriously.

 

I plan to do it just to see the ending, but that's quite... well, beyond words. The Awakened really think that the Council will deal with them, after what happened to them in Succia.

 

EDITL

Saw the ending!

 

 

 


Can't say I was too surprised. Constant war... The good thing is that the Awakened had the sense to subjugate the other two factions and put them to good use. I am glad that killing Barzahl made the place collapse and Awakened could absorb the more sane Barzites.

How on earth they kept their ground with just 100 advanced Drakons is beyond me though. That's a mistake in my opinion. 100 Unbound, full and not weakened, were required to beat back the Shaper army near Burnwood, and that was one army from Shapers weakened by 7 years of war.   

 

 

Also, the finale ends with ... a door (?) that hides something... :/ Do I need to do the other endings to see what it is?

Edited by alhoon

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So, what I was saying to Triumph before, when it was spoilersville for you, about an unusual and potential successful ending, was in reference to the Awakened.  To wit:

 

Quote

 

What's unique about the Awakened strategy in G2 is that it is a purely defensive strategy.  Not only do they not initiate conflict with the Shapers, their entire project is built to be a defense.  I mean, they call it a "Barrier"!  No other faction in the entire series does that; not even the Trakovites or Astoria, whose plans for peace both require going on the offense against the strongest parties extant.

 

Even though the G2 Awakened ending describes the beginning of a war that is nearly identical to the war in the G2 Taker ending, I think their defensive orientation would make a big difference if we follow the war's progression to G3 and G4.  It is not at all clear to me that the Shapers are so overzealous as to pursue the same kind of destructive, risk-everything war against an enemy that has declared it would be happy not to attack them... versus one that has declared an existential commitment to destroying them.  Also, in the G2 Awakened ending, the Awakened are responsible for finally destroying the Takers (and the Barzites), something I think the Shapers would not ignore: recall the decent treatment the Obeyers receive in the destroyed-it G1 endings.  AND: think about those conflict-averse Councilors from the western provinces in G5.  Astoria would obviously support any compromise, and Shema is more pragmatic than principled.  No insane rebel attacks means no PTSD sufferers like Alwan on the Council, either.

 

 

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1 hour ago, alhoon said:

Also, the finale ends with ... a door (?) that hides something... :/ Do I need to do the other endings to see what it is?

 

The endings all have the same blurb about the door, except the Taker ending which specifies it is "the final creation of Easss."  Since you've played G3, you can probably figure out what this is: it's Ghaldring, or I guess, his egg or something.

 

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GHAAAAAAAAAAAALDRIIIIIIIIIIIING! ! ! ! :):):)

 

Do we have confirmation about it? That it was indeed Ghaldring? "Final Creation of Easss" you say... Ghaldring says he was one of the first*.

 

And... if Ghaldring is still there growing, and he's fully grown when Litalia reached his place, how long did it get to the Council to clean through the tiny factions fighting among them? All together the Drypeaks feel "smaller" than a single Shaper Province and at that time, the Shapers had 9. Well, perhaps the Ashen Isles were smaller\less populous\less advanced but it doesn't feel that way.

 

As a note: When I just left the place without finishing anything, I didn't get the note about that door.

 

*Of course, there are many variants of Drakons in the Drypeaks; Ghaldring could be the first of the Drakons as I know them. So far I can't say I've seen many GF2 Drakons able to actually Shape instead of using Shaping vats like those Akhari Blaze loves so much. They are certainly worse than the GF4-5 Drakons. (Can't speak about GF3 Drakons, I saw just one and he killed me pretty quickly).

 

Man, that hint, that behind the door is Ghaldring, gives a whole new meaning to the place. I really thought he would be to Gazak-Uss. I guess he's not a "Failed" experiment. And I damn wonder how the Shapers even got in there.

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Posted (edited)

7 hours ago, Cold Hearted Trach said:

So, what I was saying to Triumph before, when it was spoilersville for you, about an unusual and potential successful ending, was in reference to the Awakened.  To wit:

 

 

 

Hmmm... Interesting take. However the finale text ends some years, with the Shapers sending perpetual armies against the Serviles. They simply cannot abide my friends to exist. Also, they were "pleased" that I killed lying Zakary the Deceiver, that I killed Barzahl, that I destroyed the Canister-factory, that I killed the Taker bosses. And still condemned me to death.

 

I don't think the open-heartedness of the Awakened would get them any favors. Astoria was probably not a councilor and she hasn't tasted defeat nor the horror of Unbound burned cities, no war fatigue. Shema... I don't know. But still. The Shapers had less to lose by perpetual war (according to them ) than writing off Drypeaks and erasing all mentions of its existence.

I mean, come on!. Declare everything beyond the secret tunnel "Barred", build a big nice wall, put a few dozen Turrets there and a few guardians and prohibit everyone from mentioning what's there. They have done it in the past, as we learn in GF3-4 at least (and it's not that Alwan is open about his Spawners and his shaping-capable servant minds).

 

But the Shapers had to be caricature authoritarian buttholes and unable to accept defeat by Creations even if they could easily sweep it under the rug.

Proving the Takers right.

 

My view on the Awakened ending: I still think they're too good to survive. Yes they get some years of war-torn existence. But the Shapers don't seem to be letting go by the end. It was as I feared; they are too moral for a war. In most civil wars I've read about, it's the moderates that get crushed first.

The quests and the ending completely validate my view of "Awakened are the only good faction I've seen in GF" but they're reluctance to kill Barzahl (I had to do it myself), Lying Zakary the Deceiver (I had to do it myself), Syros (Didn't touch him) etc makes them hopelessly idealistic.

In the Awakened ending, Taker Drayks escape. Syros is gone, not killed. Barzites are allowed to join, they're just not trusted because they're mad; their heinous crimes against serviles and Creations forgiven.

I wanted a bit more blood on my hands. A less "clean" faction. I practically had to do the dirty stuff myself, without anyone rewarding me.

 

 

Awakened dissolving the Takers: The Geneforge still stands though. I didn't destroy it since I was expecting that the Shapers would never accept peace with Serviles. And with Tuldaric, bless his soul for all he has done, being let's say ... not-exactly-sane and perhaps-too-ambitious I have doubts about leaving it standing. But it will come a time that the Awakened will start losing against the horde of enemies the Shapers send to their door.

And that's when flying uber-Drakon lifecrafters would come in handy.

And Tuldaric would have the guts to do it.

Edited by alhoon

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1 hour ago, alhoon said:

And... if Ghaldring is still there growing, and he's fully grown when Litalia reached his place, how long did it get to the Council to clean through the tiny factions fighting among them?

 

Yet another reason why it is ridiculous to take Litalia's ever-shifting accounts at face value.

 

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Hmmm... Interesting take. However the finale text ends some years, with the Shapers sending perpetual armies against the Serviles. They simply cannot abide my friends to exist.

 

Yes, obviously we know their reaction will, for a while, be their usual exterminatory one.  But fast forward to the state of the war in G4, where there have been real losses and Shaper society is totally deformed by the war effort.  The Shapers had already been willing to violate core tenets of their strict regulations in order to have a better chance at defeating the Rebels, with their new creations, for example.  In G4, they are happy to accept even a geneforged servile as their ally.  If they are willing to that, I see no reason why they wouldn't be willing to call things off when faced with an enemy who doesn't want to fight them and for whom the historical record really backs that up.

 

Quote

In the Awakened ending, Taker Drayks escape. Syros is gone, not killed. Barzites are allowed to join, they're just not trusted because they're mad; their heinous crimes against serviles and Creations forgiven.

 

You may have a more sympathetic view towards some of the Drayks after you finish the series.  I agree that letting the Barzites join is weird; maybe it's just some of the Barzites?  Given the way things happened in G2, perhaps not all of their members have animus towards creations?

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Posted (edited)

I agree with most but:

- I like Drayks. I dislike Drakons, but I like Drayks. Yet, in a war you go after the enemy you like too. When the Red Baron was killed in WW1, the English buried him with great honor... but they were trying to kill him. War is a strange thing.

- I think the most reasonable explanation is that the Shapers arrived when Ghaldring was mature; the text never said that whatever was behind the door was weak. It said it was growing stronger. Still, I haven't spoken with him in GF3 to learn about that.

- I think Litalia's changing views reflect the author's changing views on the matter more than her lying, although there's evidently a good deal of exaggeration there; Even GF4 Litalia would need at least 20 Shapers to effectively purge everything in the Valley. After all they needed to have people hold down areas so that Rogues wouldn't escape.

- In GF4, they're not happy to accept a geneforged rebel. Alwan is less reluctant than Crowley but both are anything but happy.

- In GF4-5 some of the Shapers are willing to stand down because they're losing the war. Simply put, without terrible destruction and whole provinces lost the Shapers wouldn't lose their appetite for war from what we see in GF4-5.

Even in GF4, with half of Terrestia in Rebel hands, the Shapers aren't willing to discuss peace because they're winning, despite taking losses and lost provinces.

In GF5, with the Shaper forces in a crippling for the Shapers Standoff, only Astoria is willing to discuss peace. Without Astoria's diplomacy, the Shapers continue the war even if the Rebels kill four of their councilors.

 

In short, from what I've seen in GF4-5, the Shapers are so arrogant and attached to their power that they will not accept peace unless totally broken and humiliated. For this to happen, Terrestia has to burn, not them losing war in a land that's not holding their people.

 

 

I agree that the Barzites had people that wouldn't be terrible and that people that weren't totally canister-mad. But from the text, I think the Awakened were too forgiving.

Edited by alhoon

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37 minutes ago, alhoon said:

- I think Litalia's changing views reflect the author's changing views on the matter more than her lying

 

I don't mean to beat a dead horse, but the author depicts Litalia as swinging wildly between extremes: her goals are completely different in each game, her alliances completely different, and her emotional presentation is totally different.  (And of course, she spent more time with canisters than any other major human character in the series.)  Whether or not the author's views changed, there can be zero question that Litalia was depicted as an unstable character.  So, the suggestion isn't that she lied -- indeed I don't think she did.  The suggestion is that her memories are not stable or reliable.  She implies as much herself.

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Posted (edited)

Well, I think she did lie to a degree + her memory has huge holes as she admits herself. More or less, Litalia has conditioned herself thrice in her life. Even without canisters there's BOUND to be something loose in there. Now, add Canisters. And a reason to lie.

I am not saying Litalia is a reliable source. She even thinks she can de-shape herself by teaching herself to smile.

 

However, I have to ask now: you said she spent more time with canisters than any other major character in the series. Is there any minor character in the series that used as many? I think Litalia broke the limit. The quite insane Phariton had like 20-30 canisters. Jarred was downing canisters to the point that the Drakons were not considering him human. But I believe Litalia surpassed both of them. She had a "head start" before the Rebellion officially began and she lived waaay longer than Phariton. Even if she stopped the Canisters say a couple years after Ashen Isles, that would give her several years of canister abuse with far more resources in order to get canisters than Phariton.

Perhaps the Monarch had used more. But I don't remember very well what was in his notes. I remember he passed from Sucia. He could have been one of Barzahl's apprentices, but he was too old for that. He has certainly mastered the honored taker strategy of "Throw a couple of spawners and hope one doesn't lose the right tokens."

 

Speaking of those tokens: Hilarious how the Shapers snubbed the control Baton in GF4 while using the technique in GF5 and the technique being used in GF2 (and perhaps GF3. I have to move with that game dammit).

I still recall Miranda's sneer. "What a primitive method. When you're making monsters you want something more to protect yourself from them than a special stick". Guess what Miranda: It worked nicely for the Takers that were close to overwhelm their enemies, worked for the Monarch until he was defeated and worked for the Shapers, the serviles of the Shadow Road and the rebels in the wastelands east of the Line.

Edited by alhoon

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Yeah, the qualifier was more there because there are various minor characters who have clearly gone off the deep end with canisters, but we just don't know as much about them as about Litalia, so it's hard to judge.  There are also some things in G1 that could potentially affect this judgment.

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10 hours ago, alhoon said:

I think the most reasonable explanation is that the Shapers arrived when Ghaldring was mature; the text never said that whatever was behind the door was weak. It said it was growing stronger. Still, I haven't spoken with him in GF3 to learn about that.

Ghaldring doesn't appear in G3. However, multiple characters present a matching story that clarifies the meaning of the G2 ending's sealed door.

Spoiler

 

Exhibit one:

"Who is Easss?"

"The great creator, who fell to the Shaper blades. But Ghaldring, his creation, was hiding in a vault under his fortress, waiting for the time to emerge and begin the great work."

Another conversation goes thus:

"We Takers worked with and helped the drakons. And then the Shapers came to the mountains, as we knew they would. The drakons were killed. Easss died. Most of the Takers died. I escaped. Most didn't. This time, the Shapers were thorough in their purging. But not thorough enough."

"What did they miss?"
"Deep in the drakon's fortress, there was a door, well concealed and powerfully protected. Behind it was the final creation of Easss. It was Ghaldring. Then Ghaldring emerged. He escaped. He roamed the wilds, growing and learning to master his power."

And another yet conversation:

"Who was Easss?"
"One of the first drakon Shapers. The first of our kind to realize that, if each generation of drakons Shaped the next, then we could grow powerful enough to fight the Shapers. He died. A lone Shaper slipped into Benerii-Uss and, using force and trickery, killed him. But before that happened, Easss created and hid the Ur-Drakon Ghaldring deep in the fortress. Ghaldring escaped with us, and will lead us in the destruction of the Shapers."

And one more:

"Who was Easss?"
"Easss was the first drakon who could Shape, and the creator of the second Geneforge, the one which could create the mighty ur-drakon. He did this in mountains far from here. And then the Shapers found him. He was slaughtered, and his Geneforge was destroyed. Before he died, however, he Shaped Ghaldring and hid him away."

 

Taken together, we get a pretty unambiguous picture of Ghaldring being hidden away behind the sealed door sometime prior to the arrival of the G2 PC, then being overlooked in the canonical ending of G2 where the Shapers purge the mountains, and emerging sometime afterward to join up with the surviving serviles and drayks.

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Also, that typo in the thread title. :cry:

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Haven't gone through the Takers yet, since I assume I will have to go kill Awakened for no reason other than they disagree with the Takers. In wars moderates are the first to be attacked.

 

If the Awakened managed to keep the Shapers in a stalemate for years with a small bunch of flying Drakons, I expect the Takers to kick the Shapers really bad with the Geneforge and their many Drakons. Except if they go the tried-and-true Drakon way of "we cull the weak to feed the strong" instead of allowing the Shapers to kill the slightly-weaker Drakons while they keep the good ones for reserve.

 

We'll see. Takers I believe I can do.

Barzites are out of the question and while I would reasonably do Shapers for complicity, Lying Zakary the Deceiver has alienated me so much that I can't bring myself to go to him. I wish I would have him killed and replaced...

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I won't check the endings thread, but ... there are 4 factions, aren't they?

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Yup.  Each faction has one ending.  There is a fifth good ending.

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Posted (edited)

Unaligned good ending? 

Damn that game is complicated.

 

If I load my save before leaving the area after having killed all faction bosses except Syros and the Awakened, and I go and kill the Awakened and sabotage the Barrier of Winds... do I get it? 

 

EDIT: Actually the answer to that is kinda spoily. Please ignore the question.

Edited by alhoon

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That's a very good question... 

Nah. Not yet at least. 

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2 hours ago, alhoon said:

That's a very good question... 

Nah. Not yet at least. 

If you want to check on ending needs, look at Matt P's walkthrough. If you aren't careful, it'll spoil particular quests, but it doesn't spoil any endings.

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It does listing endings, though only in one section.  It also gets some of the ending requirements wrong, FWIW.

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Posted (edited)

Told my sister my GF2 adventure while we were in a road trip. Down to explaining the different factions etc.

She seemed to like it most from the GF stories I've told her so far, although that may be the case that I spent a couple of hours telling her my experience with GF2 from the beginning to the end as a story instead of telling her this and that while playing the game.

 

She didn't agree with my view on everything (including my unmitigated hate for Lying Zakary the Deceiver) despite hearing the story from me, without any effort from myself to give her an unbiased view and certainly not about LZtD. She also didn't share my admiration for Tuldaric, disagreed with my view that Shanti had to die and doesn't understand what appeal I saw with the Takers. Yet, aside of some diverging opinion on the above we are in agreement with my sister about most things GF2-story-wise.

Edited by alhoon

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