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Remington Remington

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Posted 07 April 2017 - 09:56 PM #1 Sosaria (My first game)

Hi,
I have finally after all these years started using the scenario editor. I played the game as a kid when it was first released so long ago like many others here. I loved every second. I'm trying to learn how everything works and reading the forums about it so I can make a balanced game if possible. I feel like most of the default sprites/tiles are really good and I want to use some but also make custom's, which is actually a lot of fun. Any Tips are welcome. Is there anything major or cheap that I should watch out for when making a game? I did copy a map from my favorite game that I played for years and love. (which I hope is ok.) I'm going to use ideas from that and other games that I loved in the past (and hopefully my own a little XD) I wanted to show what I have done so far, which took A LOT of work because I had to piece it all together in paint XD.


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Posted 08 April 2017 - 02:46 AM #2 Sosaria (My first game)

Welcome! Using someone else's map could technically be copyright infringement, although I suppose there are ways to do it that would make it more of a tribute than a theft which would therefore be covered by fair use rules. Not sure of the details of that, myself, but maybe someone else knows.

But it's great that you're interested! I'd be more helpful if I had not just woken up while in the process of quitting caffeine, but hopefully later I'll have something more useful to say. I will say that most of the day, Celtic Minstrel (lead developer on the Open Blades of Exile project) and I tend to be in the IRC chat room, which you can find in the forum header. He'll be asleep until probably around 10 or 11 AM Eastern Time, most likely. I'm sure he'd love to hear from you.

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Posted 08 April 2017 - 07:18 AM #3 Sosaria (My first game)

Oh for crying out loud.  Basing the continent shapes and terrain features of a world map on the classic Ultima world map (which has been remade and translated into different game systems all over the internet) is not going to be a copyright problem.
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Posted 09 April 2017 - 06:46 AM #4 Sosaria (My first game)

Don't have a hernia.

Remington Remington

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Posted 09 April 2017 - 03:37 PM #5 Sosaria (My first game)

Yeah I wasn't sure if using this map would be a problem. Anyway I might make this my update page for what I do if its ok.
I was wondering a few things if possible (sorry they might have been asked a million times and might be in the BoE Scenario guide)

1. I wanted to try to make my game single player. Or maybe with NPCS that the player can hire. Is this possible?

2. I'm Trying to make the game challenging and thinking of penalties to the player or party if they die since you can basically save/load on the fly(which can make some battles/dungeons easier) Anyway around this?

3. I just started with this game again after years and haven't got to explore everything but, can you make outdoor/indoor fog of war come back in a specific map?

4. I wanted to stick to indoor only battles if possible and make a ton of dungeon type areas with multible floors. is this a good idea?

5. I understand the limits of the game. 255 map tiles I can get by with, but since most of them are going to indoor/outdoor/dungeons, what is a good way
to detail up a map? I was thinking about using some of the items? or maybe even some of the monsters slots since there is a lot that I might not use, but they all are great.

Also I updated my world map a little more and here are some of my building walls and houses so far (Its A LOT of work!)

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Posted 09 April 2017 - 05:49 PM #6 Sosaria (My first game)

Presumably you're working on original BoE so this doesn't apply, but pretty much everything you mentioned is theoretically not a problem in OBoE. This doesn't help you right now, since OBoE is unstable and unplayable, but from the sounds of it you're going to be taking quite a long time with other aspects of your design, so perhaps OBoE will be usable by the time you get to wanting some of its new capabilities.

To answer your questions (unless otherwise noted, these answers only apply to OBoE):
  • It's possibly to make NPC that will join the party as a full party member - in effect, transforming an NPC into a PC. There's no way in either version of BoE to force a player to start with only one character though, short of deleting (or, in OBoE, storing) all but one when the scenario starts.
  • There is absolutely no way in either version of BoE to give the player penalties for full party death. I believe there already exist penalties for PC death, though. I have no intention of ever adding anything that would subvert the ability to load the game where you left off. Personally, I think you shouldn't be concerned about this. Save-scumming is boring usually, but if someone's so dedicated that they can be bothered to do it, then I see no reason to stop them.
  • There is a new way to affect fog of war in OBoE, if I recall correctly. If there isn't, it would be trivial to add.
  • This is really just a matter of opinion, really. It's easy to prevent outdoor battles either by not setting up the wandering encounters or by not ever allowing the party to leave town. Personally, I think a few outdoor battles makes a vast outdoors more interesting, though. They don't necessarily need to be random ones - if you dislike wandering encounters, you could just use the fixed outdoor battle encounters.
  • These limits are pretty much all removed in OBoE. You can have effectively unlimited amounts of terrains, items, etc. For pre-OBoE though, it has been common practice to turn furniture into items (rather than terrains), which would save a fair amount of terrain slots. Of course, item slots are the most limited, so whether that's a good idea really depends.

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Posted 10 April 2017 - 10:07 PM #7 Sosaria (My first game)

So I was trying to think of ways today to force the game to be single player, I tried a series of nodes. KILL THEM ALL BUT ONE! So firstly I made a small room where the player starts with one exit and put a node on the only exit that poisoned the party or even did a massive amount of explosion/unblockable/instant kill damage, but you can get a "you lucked out and dodged the damage"?? or start with 1 or more priest type characters you can heal your way out of it (anyway to stop this?) I was thinking of putting more then one of those "death nodes" in a row in a straight one space hallway so that even if the player SPAMS heals they can only save one member, which might work, but still seemed like it could be fought through with enough healing/luck, also since you go from "DEAD" to "DUST" (which if i remember correctly dust status you cannot be ressurected?) its harder to pull off. In my head im thinking if the player could even get two crappy no skilled pure mana priests out alive..then its not going to work for me. Any other ideas based off this that anyone can think of? I want it so that I can kill off all other party members except one of choice in anyway. I figured this could even be made for a cool scenario type where the player had to earn ressurect's of some sort for his party members later on!!

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Posted 10 April 2017 - 10:38 PM #8 Sosaria (My first game)

BoE has those portal nodes where only one PC gets to go through, right?  It might be messy, but is there a way to enter one of those at the start and just never reunite with the party?  (Not sure how that works with town changes.)
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Posted 10 April 2017 - 10:43 PM #9 Sosaria (My first game)

That's an idea ill try if this doesn't work out because I might have figured it out.."Split Party" right before they exit the door, which is AWESOME so far if it works because you can even select which character you would like to play. also was thinking that if you teleport them back into the room or somthing you could reunite then make them split again so you can change class/characters! :)


EDIT--So I think i got it working now after HOURS of trying stuff and it ended up being easier then I was making it. I first use the Kill/Raise Dead node, First I use the Kill Node with "extra 1a being set at 4" then i continue on to "Select a PC" Node, you then pick which character you wish to play then it continues to Raise Dead Node and they come alive and active. If you step back onto the Kill/Raise Dead Node again you can then select your other PC's, although it seems to drop everything your holding on the ground which Isn't to bad I guess. Also if you die on a single player its GAME OVER! which is almost exactly what I wanted, I also think this might make the "Save Scummers" harder to use considering you only have one Player life at a time..so say you saved with poison on you on accident..and you have no cures...well you might be screwed :)

Although I haven't yet tested to see if you use the Kill dead node if you lose all your EXP since you go to the "surface", I did test to see if poison stays there even if there on the "surface" and it does! All in all I think this can be used as a single player character selection experience :)

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Posted 11 April 2017 - 03:46 AM #10 Sosaria (My first game)

Refusing to allow players to revert to backups tends to irritate them if there's not a good reason for it. If it only adds difficulty without adding challenge or, more importantly, fun, then you may be wasting your time. I know I won't be playing your scenario if you do that, anyway.

I don't game much these days but I've been told that starting around the late 1990s, a shift away from the "lives/continues" system began, and by this point, even the infamous "Game Over" screens are hard to find.

As for forcing one-PC parties, I advise against that too. I'd just warn them in the Readme and the scenario intro text that the game is designed for single-PC parties and that the game may not function well or be properly balanced if they do otherwise. If they really want to play with multiple PCs, they'll just go through your check and then reunite the party or add more PCs, using the character editor. Besides, if you have a 6-PC party, the party will be balanced for that. A one-PC party has special balancing requirements, and if you just kill five PCs, the remaining PC probably won't be balanced to play any challenging scenario. They can play "Terror from the Park" I guess.

If you want you can even include a prefabricated party. Make a party the way you like it and package it with the scenario. You still can't force the player to use it, but it's the player's own fault if they disregard instructions and don't get an ideal play experience.

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Posted 11 April 2017 - 03:51 AM #11 Sosaria (My first game)

I thought if they used the character editor they would still HAVE to run into my Node spot since its the only place to move out of the room. they can't raise dead or reunite because there not dead or split! there in a "surface" status. granted I know they could become godly on a single PC non the less. If they can edit my work then there's nothing I can do either way. Which if it was me I would change that (I just hate cheating in all forms usually the majority of people choose to cheat)..unless there's a item or something to move past the node, since I don't know much about the character editor. I thought playing one PC could be fun and balanced if you set the monsters up right plus I'm adding the fact that you can switch between characters for different situations but once again I havn't got that far. I'm just not one for "parties" of 6, I like solo if anything and I really wanted to make it work somehow.  I think I made it sound worse then it will be. you will still be able to save/load fine in my scenario, Im just trying to make a 18+ year old game somewhat challenging even though I know there's puzzles and whatnot. also do you know how I can make containers/barrels/crates keep the items after you leave town and come back?

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Posted 11 April 2017 - 04:38 AM #12 Sosaria (My first game)

If the items are in a barrel or crate and the barrel or crate is in a Saved Item Rectangle, the items will remain, although you may have to put the crate or barrel back where the items were if it resets to its prior location. The items will be there but you can't grab them until you make the tile a container by pushing one onto it.

The character editor can be used at any point in the scenario or outside a scenario, not just at the beginning. They get their party split or killed, walk out of the special room, and just put them back. Simple.

There's no such thing as cheating in a single player game. If your restriction isn't fun, they'll either "cheat" or stop playing. But I don't believe the majority choose to cheat. People rarely like doing things they know will break the game, and if they do it seems to be after an "honest" first playthrough. Just consider, does the restriction only make the game harder, or does it make it more fun? That's a decision to be made carefully for every feature of a game, not just stuff like this. It's good to keep in mind.

The game will be 20 years old as of this December. 19+, not 18+. Boy, do I feel old. All the more reason not to waste my time with pointless restrictions.

If you want to switch between PCs for different situations, a prefab party would allow you to give the player the characters the game is balanced for.

The new scenario editor would, if it did not crash five minutes into using it every time, make some of this stuff easier. But it does crash so it's moot right now... :(

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Posted 11 April 2017 - 04:41 AM #13 Sosaria (My first game)

View PostThe Almighty Doer of Stuff, on 11 April 2017 - 04:38 AM, said:

There's no such thing as cheating in a single player game.
I mean, I do see the point you're making here, but cheating is still cheating.  Breaking the defined rules to gain an advantage doesn't actually require that the advantage is in a competition with another player.

I think that stating the scenario is intended for a 1 PC party would work fine; but finding a way to remove the other 5 PCs would also work.  In both cases the player can choose to ignore or circumvent the warning, but that's their choice to not play the game as intended.
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Posted 11 April 2017 - 05:10 AM #14 Sosaria (My first game)

Ennui Im glad to atleast hear that it can be possible to make it work, for me I'd rather FORCE them to play with 1 PC at a time, It just feels better to me that they HAVE to rather then choosing not to and ruining my whole experience for the player. The all mighty doer of stuff, Im not getting what your saying. I just checked the character editor with a loaded party or not and I dont see how you can "add" party members after there past the node or even before it. I think the way I setup the node there's no way I can find around it, If i never put a split party node/scenario or reunite node in my scenario they can't do it. None of them are dead either and no way possible to die at the spot I have them start at, let alone after the node takes effect on your party I noticed in the character editor it says "Surface" next to there name and doesn't show there stats or anything, if you are in my scenario and even take one step you hit the "Kill/Raise" node, That's when it says "Surface" by there name. What i get out of that is there not even in the game techinally until I switch back to them again. If your saying they can just get into my scenario editor files and change that..then yeah I figured that..there's nothing I can do about it which suck's

Try it for yourself because I wanna know in perfect detail how to get out of not hitting the node even with character editor, for my own knowledge so I can tweek it! :)

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Posted 11 April 2017 - 05:22 AM #15 Sosaria (My first game)

What I'm saying is, there's an option in the character editor called "Reunite Party". You can't actually add new PCs in the legacy editor, but if they go in with a multi-PC party to start with, they can bring them back with the click of a mouse.

You're fighting a battle that doesn't have to be fought. A player decides what does and doesn't ruin their own experience, not the designer. If a player can't experience it how they want, there's a good chance they won't experience it at all. But like I said, I think very, very few players will disregard the advice of the designer anyway, regarding party specifications.

EDIT: Also, all you have to do is hit Shift+D and suddenly you can walk through walls and monsters can't attack, in OBoE anyway. I think in legacy you need to enter the scenario password, but most people can't run legacy BoE anymore, which is a large part of why we're working on OBoE in the first place.

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Posted 11 April 2017 - 08:22 AM #16 Sosaria (My first game)

View PostThe Almighty Doer of Stuff, on 11 April 2017 - 05:22 AM, said:

You're fighting a battle that doesn't have to be fought. A player decides what does and doesn't ruin their own experience, not the designer. If a player can't experience it how they want, there's a good chance they won't experience it at all.
The flip side is that the designer decides what does and doesn't constitute their game.  You're right that if the designer's designs and the player's preferences don't line up, the player is either not going to play or not going to enjoy the game.  This doesn't mean that any time there is potential for a designer and player to have different ideas, the designer should automatically abandon their design thoughts and leave the choice open to the player just because it's "a battle that doesn't have to be fought."

I could just as easily say "The player is fighting a battle that doesn't have to be fought.  Not every game is for them."  And it would be just as overgeneralized.

That said -- there might be specific factors that make one or the other approach make sense, in a particular situation.  I'm not sure what exactly the compelling reason is to let players override designer preferences about party composition.

--

I also note that the original Blades of Exile clearly leaned more towards giving the designer control than you guys are, as the removal of the scenario password and Shift-D restriction you mention demonstrates.
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Posted 11 April 2017 - 09:13 AM #17 Sosaria (My first game)

View PostEnnui Skunk, on 11 April 2017 - 08:22 AM, said:

That said -- there might be specific factors that make one or the other approach make sense, in a particular situation.  I'm not sure what exactly the compelling reason is to let players override designer preferences about party composition.

I think of it as a cost-benefit analysis. But I wasn't so concerned about the reasons to allow or disallow overriding party composition, as the concept of punishing the player for losing or interfering with save-reload. I'm sorry that wasn't clear. But I'll try both anyway.

Pros of forcibly restricting party composition: 1. Some players are not very bright and will disregard instructions without even knowing why they're doing it, and then they won't enjoy the game and won't understand why. (Sadly an actual concern...) 2. Some artists feel hurt when they lose absolute control over their work.

Pros of not worrying about it: 2. Players who already know they enjoy a game more without certain restrictions, or like trying to break games after they've done it the recommended way, will not be able to enjoy the game as they like. 2. It's less work. 3. Strong, dedicated, loyal (and paying if it's a for-profit venture, which this is not) communities sometimes form around picking their favorite artists' work apart. Trying to squash this can be good for consistency of the product, but pushing too hard can also squash these communities before they grow. (See the What Goes On? Beatles Anomalies List or the "Five Nights At Freddies" wikis for examples.)

-----

Pros of preventing the player from saving and reloading freely: If this is an arcade machine at Chuck E. Cheese's with a saved high score list for people to see their names, it can give glory to skilled players. This, however, is not an arcade machine. I personally see zero benefit to this. Feel free to insert one.

Cons of preventing the player from saving and reloading freely: It's stressful and upsetting to spend hours and hours playing a game, until you sneezed and your little game dudes hit themselves with Divine Thud during the pitched final battle, and you either lost a lot of loot, EXP, etc. or worse, were forced to start over. Most modern games have been moving away from this since the late 1990s, and nowadays it's very uncommon for a game to actually punish their players.

-----

Feel free to correct, add, or change anything. I'm curious.

EDIT: (For clarification: I lose track of what I am saying, why I am saying it, and the general flow of conversation very easily. I'm not sure why the save/reload issue was still on my mind when it seems to have been settled many posts ago. I blame schizophrenia.)

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Posted 11 April 2017 - 09:42 AM #18 Sosaria (My first game)

Ah, that makes more sense if you were talking about save/reload.  Yeah, Remington, I don't know how much time you've put into games with permadeath, but it really does transfigure everything about how the game gets played.  I think that's not a step to take lightly especially when you're using an engine where save/reload is baked in and expected.
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Posted 11 April 2017 - 11:29 AM #19 Sosaria (My first game)

View PostEnnui Skunk, on 10 April 2017 - 10:38 PM, said:

BoE has those portal nodes where only one PC gets to go through, right?  It might be messy, but is there a way to enter one of those at the start and just never reunite with the party?  (Not sure how that works with town changes.)
It doesn't work very well; if you exit town and re-enter, the items of the missing PCs are dropped. As far as I know, reuniting would still work in that case, though; they just would no longer have their stuff.

View PostRemington, on 10 April 2017 - 10:07 PM, said:

(which if i remember correctly dust status you cannot be ressurected?)
You can resurrect from dust status. It just requires a higher-level spell.

View PostRemington, on 11 April 2017 - 05:10 AM, said:

Ennui Im glad to atleast hear that it can be possible to make it work, for me I'd rather FORCE them to play with 1 PC at a time, It just feels better to me that they HAVE to rather then choosing not to and ruining my whole experience for the player.
This is literally impossible within the BoE engine and always has been, thanks to the existence of the character editor.

View PostRemington, on 11 April 2017 - 05:10 AM, said:

The all mighty doer of stuff, Im not getting what your saying. I just checked the character editor with a loaded party or not and I dont see how you can "add" party members after there past the node or even before it.

  • If a character died, or if you used the Split Party node, the character editor can bring back the missing party members.
  • It is possible to add new PCs after the game begins, without using the character editor, but as I recall, you need to be in the town you started in; so you can easily get around that by making the startup town a "setup" town that removes 5 party members and then takes you to a different town.

View PostEnnui Skunk, on 11 April 2017 - 08:22 AM, said:

I also note that the original Blades of Exile clearly leaned more towards giving the designer control than you guys are, as the removal of the scenario password and Shift-D restriction you mention demonstrates.
That isn't really relevant here, given that the scenario password never restricted use of the character editor, only the scenario editor.


Long story short, Remington - you need to design under the assumption that the character editor does not exist. There is absolutely nothing you can do to prevent people from using the character editor (or saved games in general), so there's no point in even trying. There's nothing wrong with trying to force the player to use only one PC, though. If they take the effort get around it, that's their fault for ignoring your instructions. You've said that most people will cheat, but to be honest, I don't think that's the case unless cheating is easier than just playing the game. In this case, cheating means:

  • Save your game.
  • Open your saved game in the character editor, make changes, save results.
  • Return to game, reopen your saved game.

I don't see how you could call that easier than just continuing to play with a single character, as you want them to.
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Posted 11 April 2017 - 11:49 AM #20 Sosaria (My first game)

View PostCeltic Minstrel, on 11 April 2017 - 11:29 AM, said:

That isn't really relevant here, given that the scenario password never restricted use of the character editor, only the scenario editor.
I was addressing the more general question of player control versus designer control that ADoS brought up.
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Posted 11 April 2017 - 01:47 PM #21 Sosaria (My first game)

  • If a character died, or if you used the Split Party node, the character editor can bring back the missing party members.
  • It is possible to add new PCs after the game begins, without using the character editor, but as I recall, you need to be in the town you started in; so you can easily get around that by making the startup town a "setup" town that removes 5 party members and then takes you to a different town.
1-as far as I know with using the BoE character editor, you cant. I have it setup to where you can only play one character at a time once you move the only way you can which is south across the kill/raise node, all PC's except the one you pick will be on the "surface" if that player dies in the game it will end and the reload screen menu comes up. I even saved the game after the kill/raise node and died and saved and tried the character editor but there doesnt seem like there's a way to bring all other PC"s back. so they could ressurect that ONE PC if they died I noticed, But the party is not split at all, so I wouldn't think the game or character editor can reunite as there not split and I wont be adding a reunite node for that reason.

2-thats actually a good sounding work around just incase they can get around the node.

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Through more testing you are right about being able to create new PC's while in the game. I didnt even see that XD.  you just delete your old PC and create a new one.. so what is a good way to make that one room my startup town and then instantly teleport them to another so they cannot return and make new PC's?

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Posted 11 April 2017 - 04:29 PM #22 Sosaria (My first game)

Stairway nodes will take the party to another town. Also, we're not joking. There is an option in one of the dropdown menus in the character editor to "Reunite Party". It has always been there and you cannot stop it. If they're not just dead and they're not split, what are you doing to make that happen? If you're using the Split Party node, all you have to do is open the character editor, select that menu option, and save, and the party is reunited. If you're doing something else, you are probably exploiting some sort of bug which may not be wise. The character editor has always been very powerful, because one purpose for it is to rescue the party from glitchy scenarios.

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Posted 11 April 2017 - 04:37 PM #23 Sosaria (My first game)

Type 86: Kill/Raise
Affects a PC's main status, such as "dead", "alive", or "fled combat". If the target is a monster, "dead" and "dust" are the same, and "fled" and "absent" are ignored.
Extra 1a:
If field Extra 1b is non-zero, this field is ignored. Otherwise, this is the type of death inflicted: 0 - regular death, 1 - dust, 2 - stoned.
Extra 1b:
If 0, makes the PC/Party intact again (not dead, stoned, etc.) Otherwise, kills/stones the PC/party.
Extra 1c:
If 0, the PC/Party gets no saving throw to resist the effect (for example, from luck or protection from petrification items). If 1, the PC/Party is allowed a saving throw.
Note:
Needless to say, this should be used very carefully. Nothing makes a scenario unpleasant faster than lots of arbitrary death.
Advanced:
This special node has a few advanced features. If you set Extra 1a to 3, you can mark a PC as having fled combat, or even bring them back from this state (this only works in outdoor combat). If you set Extra 1a to 4, you can temporarily split the PC off from the party, or bring them back; you can also bring back a PC this way after using a Split Party node, allowing for more advanced party splitting. (Note that Reunite Party won't work unless a Split Party node has been called.) Finally, if you set Extra 1a to 5, you can delete or undelete a PC.
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Posted 11 April 2017 - 04:40 PM #24 Sosaria (My first game)

Also, I think nodes 105-107 must be new nodes?  But they do seem to allow adding and removing PC's in a way that is implied (through the discussion of NPCs) to be un-Reunite-Party-able.
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Posted 11 April 2017 - 04:50 PM #25 Sosaria (My first game)

Ah, yes. The OBoE scenario editor is nearly unusable though, so I imagine Remington is using the legacy one. Legacy BoE did not offer the capability to do anything but dead, dust, stone, alive, not dust, and not stone, with Kill/Raise Dead. That's interesting though, I didn't know CM did that. I knew he made it flexible but I didn't know it resisted the Character Editor.

EDIT: But wait, no, he must be using the new one. I know CM uses it without much trouble, but I can't use it at all. Well, I'm glad someone's using it. I do once again suggest a prefab party if you want to have special classes usable in certain situations, and I think I should also reiterate that forcing the player to use one PC isn't great. Perhaps just checking to see if they have more than one and booting them out otherwise? Like I said, any six-PC party is going to be balanced for six PCs and selecting one PC from a six-PC party will make the remaining PC useless, most likely.

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Posted 11 April 2017 - 05:02 PM #26 Sosaria (My first game)

View PostThe Almighty Doer of Stuff, on 11 April 2017 - 04:50 PM, said:

I knew he made it flexible but I didn't know it resisted the Character Editor.
I'm not actually sure if it resists the Character Editor when you explicitly set a character to "absent" (the status used when the party is split); that passage in the manual is referring to the Reunite Party special node, not the Reunite Party option in the Character Editor. If it does resist though, I'd consider that a bug.

However, if I recall correctly, you can also explicitly set a character to "nonexistent", so assuming I do recall correctly, it's still possible to delete characters in a way that the PC editor can't restore.

It also seems like that manual entry is rather out-of-date, given that it doesn't actually specify the values you used for things like "absent".

View PostThe Almighty Doer of Stuff, on 11 April 2017 - 04:50 PM, said:

But wait, no, he must be using the new one.
His screenshots show otherwise in two ways: a) bright graphics and b) native-looking scrollbars.
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Posted 11 April 2017 - 05:08 PM #27 Sosaria (My first game)

That's what I meant! I guess I should have pointed to the guide from the start it was hard for me to word it right lol, So this is what I have setup now.

A small "starter" room that the player begins in..they can only move south to the node location, (Kill/Raise-1 hurt 41a extra,Pick a PC,Kill/Raise-1 hurt) then I setup to where once they move and pick, they are warped outside to the world map due to the "town boundries" and the town is gone from existance because I will add no entrance to it again. I then put the same thing in any non-starter town and you can then pick another character for play :) as said before it doesn't seem like you can create a new NPC outside of starter town and the character editor cannot do anything as far as I have tested.

I also put this warning message as soon as the player walks on the node -----Note-This scenario is to be played with 1 PC. Once you pick, All other PC's items will drop to the ground. Also make sure to un-equip everything prior. DO NOT click cancel on the "Select a PC" menu or all PC's will "Surface" and the game will end.
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Posted 11 April 2017 - 05:13 PM #28 Sosaria (My first game)

That's one way, but you could also make them step on a Stairway node that teleports them to the true starting location in the true starter town.
Exile 2 Book of Items (I didn't create it, I just converted it to HTML.)

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"—Alorael, who spells phoenetically. No matter how much his orthography is a wreck, intelligibility rises from the ashes."

"I've never played a Spiderweb game. I didn't even know SW made games until I saw this thread." —Nikki

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Posted 11 April 2017 - 05:32 PM #29 Sosaria (My first game)

Yeah that will work better for sure ill have to change it to be that way as I would rather them start next to the "character select node". I still wish I could find a way to limit a player to a certain number of PC's from the start rather then the 6 different PC's (although they could set this up with initial creation, but it would be nice to force it, it's not that big of a deal though) but I haven't figured it out yet.  I was thinking, now that this actually works,, this could be setup to where you could give 1 character "mule" skills of sorts to help your other characters and you have to level each one (which I would have to find ways for a Priest mule character to level up lol) but the possibility's are bound. I do still hate the fact that the player drops all there items when you step on the node but ill put a chest/dresser next to the second node with the starting equipment and so they can store there stuff. I also haven't tested to see if you can get exp or if you revert to being level 1 for some reason..I doubt its like that though.

EDIT-  I DID not see this before! this might be a better way to do so that they wont drop all there items on the ground at each character swtich and they could be "hireable" NPC"s which is exactly what I wanted! no idea how to set this up though..ill have to tinker with it D:


   Type 106: Store PC This special node removes a PC from the party and stores them away somewhere. Stuff Done 1, Stuff Done 2: If these are set to something other than -1, this SDF is set to the unique ID of the stored PC, minus 1000. Only leave these unset if you already know the unique ID (for example, because you obtained it when creating the PC with the above node). If you don't know the unique ID of the stored PC, there is no way to unstore it. Extra 1a: If you set this to 1, the PC is not stored, but the SDF (if present) is updated. Uses: This could be used if you have an NPC that joins the party, and you want the NPC to leave at some point and later return to the party. Type 107: Unstore PC This special node takes a PC previously stored with the above node and, if there's space, puts it back into the party. Extra 1a: The unique ID of the PC to unstore. If less than 1000, the game will add 1000 to it. Extra 1b: A special node that will be called if the party already has 6 PCs.

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Posted 11 April 2017 - 05:53 PM #30 Sosaria (My first game)

Nodes 106 and 107 are new in OBoE, so assuming you're using the original version (from Spiderweb's website), you can't use those. If you're working on the original version, you should reference the docs that came with it, not the ones that are up on calref.

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"—Alorael, who spells phoenetically. No matter how much his orthography is a wreck, intelligibility rises from the ashes."

"I've never played a Spiderweb game. I didn't even know SW made games until I saw this thread." —Nikki

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Posted 11 April 2017 - 06:01 PM #31 Sosaria (My first game)

Oh ok ..didnt know that :( so how do you get OBoE? you all been saying it doesn't work right though? are you able to copy your scenario over to it? I still like the way I have the node setup as is but it sounds like I could do alot more.

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Posted 11 April 2017 - 06:13 PM #32 Sosaria (My first game)

You can convert legacy scenarios to OBoE format with a menu option. It informs you of any specific changes you may need to make where OBoE broke compatibility with legacy scenarios, then you can accept and it will switch.

CM has no problem running OBoE, including the scenario editor, on his Win7 computer, but I can't get the scenario to run for more than a couple minutes before crashing, and it's slow. The main program works better, especially after the recent bug fixes (if CM releases another build, you can enjoy those fixes) but OBoE is still in development in general, so there are bound to be some other bugs. There's probably a link in the forum header to where you can get it, IIRC. Also, check out http://www.OpenBoE.com/ . It has little that's not on the forum header at the moment though.

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Posted 11 April 2017 - 06:13 PM #33 Sosaria (My first game)

Just a note, based on the description of nodes 106 and 107, those clearly should not be affected by the editor's Reunite Party function -- as that would be more likely to create errors than to fix them.
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Posted 11 April 2017 - 07:42 PM #34 Sosaria (My first game)

View PostRemington, on 11 April 2017 - 06:01 PM, said:

Oh ok ..didnt know that :( so how do you get OBoE? you all been saying it doesn't work right though? are you able to copy your scenario over to it? I still like the way I have the node setup as is but it sounds like I could do alot more.
Experimental, buggy versions can be downloaded at my website if you want to try them. At this point, if you want to work on your scenario, I'd recommend not using OBoE. I'll also point out that OBoE requires at least Windows XP (and I can't guarantee it works even there, though I seem to recall someone saying it does at one point). I wouldn't expect this to be a problem for you, but who knows?

View PostThe Almighty Doer of Stuff, on 11 April 2017 - 06:13 PM, said:

You can convert legacy scenarios to OBoE format with a menu option. It informs you of any specific changes you may need to make where OBoE broke compatibility with legacy scenarios, then you can accept and it will switch.
Actually, that's not a menu option. It just comes up automatically when you save your scenario... or when you load it... one of those.

View PostEnnui Skunk, on 11 April 2017 - 06:13 PM, said:

Just a note, based on the description of nodes 106 and 107, those clearly should not be affected by the editor's Reunite Party function -- as that would be more likely to create errors than to fix them.
Yeah, store/unstore have nothing to do with the editor's Reunite Party function. If I'm reading my code correctly though, the Reunite Party function both in the editor and as a special node does work on parties that have been split using Kill/Raise instead of Split Party. I haven't actually tested this however.
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"Man, I know how you feel. I once spent an hour playing WordPad before realising that it was a text editor." – Thuryl

"Dikiyoba just hopes no one ever blows up Saturn. Getting those rings back into their proper position would take hours."

"—Alorael, who spells phoenetically. No matter how much his orthography is a wreck, intelligibility rises from the ashes."

"I've never played a Spiderweb game. I didn't even know SW made games until I saw this thread." —Nikki

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Posted 11 April 2017 - 08:09 PM #35 Sosaria (My first game)

Oh wow I Just installed it and tried it for a minute or so, Definitially feels easier to use. Im using windows 10 and its working so far in the scenario editor, but I can't figure out how to get my custom graphics to work, I put them in the graphics folder but..




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