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alhoon

GF5 - creations [Patchworks, Rots, Gazers]

12 posts in this topic

We see the patchworks mainly in Rawal's lands. They are an ugly creation that aside of being ugly seems to be as effective as a powerful plated clawbug \ battle beta or something. They are melee creatons with a few extra action points. Key here? They are encountered mainly in Rawal's lands.

There are some patchworks with the Gazer hiding in the passage that leads to the citadel (or something similar). And there are patchworks along with... the Unbound. How on earth Unbound got hold of Patchworks? Why didn't they eat them? If they can shape them... who taught them to shape patchworks.

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I found something that I have forgot: There are Gazers in Taygen's Spire and his pet agent there, that works on the purity agent, Shapes Rots. OK, Rots can be found in other Shaper places in GF5 (Shaper Alexie the Barred-creation researcher has some in a Fort). But... Gazers? They have been phased out of the Rebellion as too unpredictable according to GF4 Litalia. And Taygen of all people has 2 Gazers in the Spire?

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I found something that I have forgot: There are Gazers in Taygen's Spire and his pet agent there, that works on the purity agent, Shapes Rots. OK, Rots can be found in other Shaper places in GF5 (Shaper Alexie the Barred-creation researcher has some in a Fort). But... Gazers? They have been phased out of the Rebellion as too unpredictable according to GF4 Litalia. And Taygen of all people has 2 Gazers in the Spire?

 

I guess if one creation is as bad as any other to you, might as well make use of the strongest ones as long as you're using any at all.

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But Gazers are not just bad, they don't just have the "tendency" to become rogue, they're nearly auto-rogue. Sure a war-trall may have 2% to become rogue within a year or two if you calm it every few weeks. A Gazer? Would probably go rogue the moment you release control to take the next one in the line.

 

And Gazers are also very smart and very good in magic. An angry Gazer could know what to blow up to cause damage in the facility and sabotage research. All in all, they are some of the most dangerous creations for Taygen's purposes... and not that better than War-tralls.

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Does Taygen strike you as a person who makes good life decisions?

Triumph, Seraphite and Blxz like this

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Hmmm... True. He is even described as a bad tactician by his own people. More research than decision-making abilities.

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Hmm. I did notice that Taygen has Gazers in Kayar's Spire. It is something that has irked me for a while. I wasn't really sure why he's using Barred creations in his main research lab, considering that the research lab to the south of the Dera Reaches was completely overrun because of Gazers that went insane and wreaked havoc.

 

Now that I think about it though, maybe he has them to use as 'source material' for the Purity Agent; Taygen's disease does require the DNA, or essence (or something like that) of its targets to be able to infect and kill them, and Gazers are definitely something that Taygen would want to the Purity Agent to destroy. So maybe the Gazers are there for the Purity Agent research, taking samples from them and introducing them to the Purity Agent so the virus is able to target and destroy Gazers when it is released. That's just my theory though.

 

EDIT: Also, now looking into it, I think there's some Gameplay and Storyline Segregation going on here; if Gazers were able to go nuts in a matter of moments, it would probably not be wise for the Player Character to be able to shape them, yet we can Shape Gazers, Eyebeasts, Drakons, Ur-Drakons, etc. and have absolute control over them, without any risk of them going rogue. Just putting that out there.

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Yes because the player never releases control of those creations.

I always assumed that we can have 7 creations while medium-power Shapers are shown with a couple dozens. The guy Shaping brains for Alwan controls 46, by changing which ones he controls at the time. The creations in the forts and all are said to be there and a Shaper comes over once a while and calms them which makes me think they come, take control, make them nice and placid and then release them and go to a different camp. The commander in Rockfall mentions this.

There are also the handlers that are Outsiders leading the Creations into battle (or, ahem, renting them out) without Shaper supervision and we see a lot of those handlers in the games. It is mentioned in Rawal's castle that Rawal and his Shapers are keeping the Tralls under strict control.

And that madwoman Shaper Alexie that Shapes Rots has them "controlled" by a pillar. And there are the pacification pylons.

All in all, we see a lot to suggest that Shapers put things up to "keep creations calm" until they need them.

 

At times the player can take temporary control of creations. Mainly turrets in GF5 and a bunch of insanely powerful creations in the fight against Ghadring. First time I played the battle, before I realize it's not a hard battle for my 47-lvl artifact-full Shaper... I led so many creations against Ghaldring that they had trouble getting in the fight to get a shot.

(Bragging follows)

 

 

Aside of my creations there were I think 4 wingbolts and 4 Kyshaaks somebody had made that I took control of. At a time where with my creations we could take the 4 Unbound of the fence together. Speak of an overkill.

 

I wish I could tell Astoria "Stay back. Me and my 15 tier 4-5 creations will take care of that".

Thinking of it... I actually could have attacked Ghaldring without informing Astoria I guess, except if Ghaldring is unkillable until you tell Astoria.

 

 

 

Ever Artillae are somewhat tricky from what I saw in GF3/4. Shaila's Artilla in GF4 you take control of and get with you. Until he sees Shaila and immediately the ungrateful worm flips sides. In GF3 there's an about-to-rogue Artilla that Hoge made that I couldn't take over but I could control it long enough to absorb it.

Rawal in GF5 absorbed my Fyora. MY Fyora. Not an uncontrolled Fyora or released Fyora.

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Ahh, true. The player character never seems to lose control of his/her creations (well, as long as you put +2 Int into the creation, which allows you to control it), and it does show in battle; if you put +2 Int into a creation, not only you control it, it also can't go rogue (only runs away at low health). I did actually test this; if you don't put +2 Int into a creation, not only does it act on its own (detrimental enough already, since it might accidentally bump into a giant pack of enemies and trigger them), but if it takes too much damage, it actually runs the risk of going 'rogue'. Basically, that creation gets the Charm effect cast onto it, and it attacks you and your other creations. It also runs the risk of running away. So it is shown that the player character has such control that their creations don't run the risk of going nuts.

 

Hmm, perhaps the reason the player character can't control 50+ creations like the super powerful Shapers can (obvious balance reasons aside; being able to control 20 War Tralls would be horrifying) is that the PC is sacrificing number of creations controlled and control range (Shapers seem to be able to control creations from far away, while the PC can't do that) for stronger control over creations under their control. PC creations never go rogue unless you've made them purposely dumb (meaning, no +2 Int on creations). At worst, they'll run away in fear when near death, but they never go rogue. They follow your every command, and even when running in fear, it doesn't take much to calm them down and get them fighting again (in my experiences, I sometimes have a text at the bottom where it says "You have regained control of *insert creation here*", where the creation in question shakes off its fear and fights again, even at low HP. From what I saw, it only seems to happen if you're near the creation and you're in combat. Kinda inconsistent in terms of proccing, though, so I can't be sure. But it has happened before). I dunno, I'm trying to explain game mechanics in the lore of the game, which doesn't always work (Gameplay and Story Segregation is at play here).

 

Oh yeah, I remember the final Ghaldring fight. You were given a lot of assets to use, if you have the right amount of Leadership skill. Of course, making that fight much harder wouldn't exactly be difficult; coding in new attacks for Ghaldring and his Ur-Drakon assistants, increasing their level, etc., are not very hard. And that's just one part of the whole stage, so... yeah, plenty of potential to make the fight much harder if need be.

 

Artilas, to take as an example, aren't really the smartest creation of the bunch; they're more or less like a pet cat or dog in terms of intelligence (except it's a snake. That shoots poison/acid. XD). The GF3 Artila and GF4's Greenfang both have one thing in common: they're both made by a Shaper that's not you. In GF3, it's Master Hoge (I think). In GF4, it's Shaila.

 

Perhaps the PC cannot completely control creations that were made by a different Shaper/lifecrafter. In GF3, the PC finds the Artila while they're still relatively weak; their training probably gave them enough ability to temporarily control creations and order them around, but full control over a creations made by a different Shaper (your teacher, no less) is not possible. That is what happened with the GF3 artila; your player character could control it enough to absorb it, but not enough to override Hoge's commands.

 

In GF4, Greenfang, the abandoned artila, followed your side readily enough, I will admit, but it wasn't able to shake off the original lifecrafter's control over it. You were able to guide it to where you wanted it to go, since it was relatively directionless when you found it, but deep down, it still held a bond to its creator (no matter how messed up it was), which in this case, is Shaila. Once you got Greenfang too close to Shaila, its original bond flared back to life, and from that point, well...

 

Greenfang turns on you, rejoins Shaila, and tries to kill you alongside its original creator. I can't say I was terribly surprised to have that happen, considering that Greenfang was Shaila's creation before she abandoned it, and I wouldn't expect Greenfang to shake off its bond with Shaila that easily.

 

 

As for Rawal absorbing the PC's Fyora, I imagine Shapers are probably able to absorb creations at will if they are capable of doing so. The PC in GF3 did just that to the aforementioned Artila, after all, why not Rawal as well? Not too surprising IMO.

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Actually with the +2 intelligence my creations Can get rogue in GF4 and GF5. I figured that the bad way in GF4. My wingbolt was very damaged and I was looking at it thinking to draw it out of the battle. Next thing I now, it went rogue and killed my character with one shot. Ungrateful thing...

In GF5 I also had that happen although it's rare (since my creations have high intelligence from level and items)

 

Shapers need those big blue Crystals to control creations from far away.

 

Taking control of creations... it happened in GF5 final battle though. And with Shaila's artilla perhaps it was the creature shaking out your control out of loyalty. Serviles I think are mentioned to rarely be able to do that.

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Really? Huh. Never really had that happen to me; only time creations go rogue on me is if they have no Int points and I am unable to control them. Otherwise, if I can control them, the worst that happens is that they run away when they're at low HP. Maybe it happens on higher difficulties; I never play the game above normal mode, so maybe it's worse the higher difficulty you go.

 

Oh yeah, Shapers need those giant crystals to control creations far away, now that I think about it. Otherwise, Shapers have to sorta check up on their creations every now and then to make sure they're stable; Fort Rockfall's commander mentions something among those lines.

 

When I said taking control of creations, I was talking more like you directly controlling them; being able to tell them exactly where they need to go, for example. GF5 final battle creations would follow you, but otherwise, they acted on their own for the most part. You couldn't tell them to move away or switch targets.

 

Greenfang comes close to your player character taking control of other creations, since once you have it in your party, it's a creation that you can order to attack, move away, etc. like a creation that you (the player character) made with your own essence. However, like you said, Greenfang's loyalty still lies with Shaila, and once you got Greenfang too close to her, well, you can reasonably assume what happens next.

 

Serviles, well, because of how they're Shaped, it's difficult for them to shake off control to a Shaper/lifecrafter, but it can be done if the Servile has enough willpower or is smart enough. Pretty difficult though from what is known, however.

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Actually with the +2 intelligence my creations Can get rogue in GF4 and GF5.
Maybe it happens on higher difficulties; I never play the game above normal mode, so maybe it's worse the higher difficulty you go.

I've had that happen in G1 on Normal, usually with Fyoras and Thahds early on. Can't remember if it's happened to me in any other game in the series (or with any other creature).

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