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Scripting and modding GF5

Geneforge GF modding mod editor script

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Gameman112358 Gameman112358

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Posted 22 January 2017 - 12:32 AM #71 Scripting and modding GF5

The infinite ammo baton was more because I was thinking about testing that idea anyway. I wanted to experiment with artifact weapons at one point anyway. May as well see what can be done in this game, right? After all, this thread is supposed to be seeing what can or can't be done in this game, and showing people that this game can be modded pretty well, if you're willing to put the time and effort into it. (For me though, school is coming up soon, so I probably won't be able to spend too much time with mods. Just to let you guys know. I'll probably still post ideas on here relatively frequently, though.)

As for new classes, I'm not exactly sure if its possible to add new classes to the game, and even if you could, I think most of the slots for player classes have been filled out already. Like alhoon said, mages and fighters as classes would essentially be gimped versions of existing player classes. Those two are better served as support NPCs than as player classes IMO. Trying to get to Perikalia, which is by my estimates is around the transition from mid to mid-late game, would be very difficult with a mage/fighter character. You can alter the stats of player character classes though. Go to gf5itemschars and simply put cr_statistic i = z; into one of the player classes. Replace the i with the stat that you want to increase, replace the z with how many points that you want to increase on the stat. Refer to the second post of this thread for information on which stat is which: http://spiderwebforu...scripting-info/

alhoon alhoon

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Posted 22 January 2017 - 01:08 AM #72 Scripting and modding GF5

And that's how you make new character classes. :)
Put Shaping to 0 for Shaping powers (including healing but also making Fyoras) and put the points elsewhere; to magic for mages, to combat stats for warriors. Add a couple of points just in case. Cannisters should IMO still increase Shaping, as should training.
While technically the player may get away sooner by putting points in shaping before finding a canister\trainer for "the first steps", I don't think it would be a problem in the long run.
"I am not mad, no matter what you're implying." - Litalia

GF5 mod with extra quest chain here!  Discover who you are and set up your base.

"Ohhh, no! No, it's so close! So close!" - Blxz, ambushed by an Unbound

Gameman112358 Gameman112358

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Posted 22 January 2017 - 01:53 AM #73 Scripting and modding GF5

I was thinking more along the lines of a completely new, original class being added alongside what we've got already, but whatever. Honestly, I don't really think these mage/fighter classes would be that good, given that they're overspecializing in one aspect and abandoning the rest, but that's just me. :p
Personally, I prefer using the cr_statistic thing to give additional combat stats (eg. missile weapons) to weapon focused classes (Guardians, Warriors, Shock Troopers), which are considered horribly underpowered and not fun to play. Also helps to sorta differentiate them a tiny bit. At one point, I gave them all a ton of combat stats, with some variations. Guardians get much more Parry than the other two (more focused on soaking up damage and then giving it back), Warriors get somewhat more weapon based stat boosts (missile weapons, melee weapons. More focus on weapon damage).
Shock troopers were odd for me. I wasn't really sure what to give the Shock Trooper, given that the character is essentially a Shaper that is supposed to be capable of fighting alongside her creations. The name makes me think this character's combat tactic is to stack up as much damage as possible, so I ended up giving Shock Troopers 3-4 extra action points along with the buffs to combat skills. She also gets a larger bonus to her quick action stat. Not sure how it'll go, need to test to see how much stronger she'd be with extra AP + better weapon capabilities (It would probably help, considering that Shock Troopers seem to be considered horribly underpowered by players, at least based on what I've read on the forums). Also have a few other ideas for the shock trooper that I'll try later.

Gameman112358 Gameman112358

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Posted 29 January 2017 - 02:32 AM #74 Scripting and modding GF5

I managed to get the artifact batons set up and ready to go. The combination of things you need to make them are... unusual, however. I had to change what you needed to make the batons themselves. Initially I thought I would have them require one of the major components needed for other artifacts (unmelting ice for example), but then I realized that it would make them not worth the opportunity cost whatsoever; the other artifacts IMO are very strong, and having the player be locked out of them for a baton is not worth it. That being said, I would need a little bit of feedback on what I currently have for these batons, see what to improve. They currently use a combination of the enchanting crystals. You have to go to the smithy in Mera at the moment to get these, and you need to bring in the materials and some money to make these. First level of baton costs nothing. Second level of baton costs 100 coins. The batons are:
T1 Baton
Perfected Thorn Baton (Regular Thorn Baton + Purifying Elixir):
+6% Armor
+2 Dexterity
This is the starting baton that you will need to make the stronger batons. In terms of strength, it is slightly stronger than an acid thorn (without the status effect), and it has infinite ammo. All upgraded batons also have infinite ammo.

T2 Batons
Bastion Baton (Perfected Thorn Baton + Golden Crystal + Steel Spine):
+20% Armor
+3 Dexterity
+30% to hit
+6 levels damage in combat
+50 Damage Shield (Enemies take damage if they use melee attacks on you)
Strongest thorn attack out of all the batons in terms of raw power, but has no status effects to go with it.

Hunter Baton (Perfected Thorn Baton + Tiny Orb of Mist + Ivory Skull):
+10% Armor
+4 Dexterity
+5 to Luck (It apparently gives stat boosts, including dodge, so I added this)
+2 Extra AP
Thorns cause the Curse status effect if it lands.

Ether Onyx Baton (Perfected Thorn Baton + Runed Onyx + Ethereal Bindings):
+10% Armor
+3 Dexterity
+20% to Stun Resistance
+20% to Energy Resistance
Thorns cause the Slow status effect if it lands.

Channeler Baton (Perfected Thorn Baton + Runed Ruby + Charging Stone + Blessing Crystal):
+10% Armor
+3 Dexterity
+4 to Battle Magic
+4 to Mental Magic
+4 to Blessing Magic
Thorns cause the Searing Lightning status effect if it lands.

A lot of this stuff is WIP, so don't be surprised if these batons seem either overpowered or really weird in terms of how they're supposed to be used and who gets the most benefits out of them. The second level of batons all have an attack that is stronger than a Reaper Baton, with the Bastion Baton being the strongest in terms of pure damage.

alhoon alhoon

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Posted 29 January 2017 - 02:49 AM #75 Scripting and modding GF5

How fortunate. I was at the time, like 5 minutes ago, considering posting here how it goes with the artifact batons and weapons since I decided I will include a variation in the warrior mod. After all, it's for warriors. :)

I'll read your ideas and perhaps adapt some of them. I don't mind "locking out" some artifact choices for warriors\Guardians. It's a matter of balance too and not all components are needed IMO. I'll have to find a way to pass the recipes though to the player so he or she can decide whether to go for it, or not.

About items required for your mods: You could always add them as quest rewards. Or drops. For example there's a HUGE rebel force in the fens that you can defeat (including 4 Unbound) and if you do, you don't get ANY reward. Completely anticlimactic.
Killing Litalia? OK, you get a nice text and some goodish loot.

Those, and more, could also have artifact materials.


EDIT: OK checked a few of them. With your permission I will "steal" the idea of Perfected+Crafting material since I like it.
About feedback: They're insanely powerful in my opinion. So powerful that they would make the game a stroll...
Channeler: +4 to magic? For the characters supposedly weaker in magic? O_O
That breaks class balance I think.

Bastion: That's a big defense bonus (armor bonus+dex) and the bastion packs a terrible attack to boot.


My opinion? Tone down the bonuses but I love the "theme" of the crafting materials adding to the perfected baton according to what they can do.
While I will not keep the bonuses you give, I will, with your permission, use the names, recipes and "spirit" for a couple of them.
"I am not mad, no matter what you're implying." - Litalia

GF5 mod with extra quest chain here!  Discover who you are and set up your base.

"Ohhh, no! No, it's so close! So close!" - Blxz, ambushed by an Unbound

Gameman112358 Gameman112358

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Posted 29 January 2017 - 04:20 PM #76 Scripting and modding GF5

I will admit, I was more focused on having fun and messing around with the idea of an artifact baton; balance was sorta secondary to me. It's funny though; when I look at the Ether Onyx Baton, I realize that I took the two probably worst crystals in the game (Ethereal Bindings and Runed Onyx), and despite my efforts to make that baton strong, while still thematically fitting what the crystals do to the baton exactly... the baton itself isn't THAT great, at least relative to the other batons (which I will admit are straight overpowered. XD).

The Channeler Baton was sorta something I came up with on the fly. I remember in GF4 that when you're in the section where you have to fight a certain NPC at a certain point in the game, you got these characters called Channelers, which increase your Spellcraft tremendously when in your party (I wish I knew a way to replicate that... probably hardcoded, but it would certainly be useful to know if it is possible to do something like that for companion NPCs.). Also, the baton itself is actually (in my mind, at least) specifically designed for Shock Troopers, who have some of the worst magic I've ever seen. Really broken baton, admittedly, but at the same time, there are artifacts that give you +5 to all magic stats, so... XD (You do need rare materials to get those, admittedly, whereas the Channeler Baton the only serious component is the Purifying Elixir; Runed Ruby, Charging Stone, and Blessing Crystal aren't difficult to make.

Bastion Baton... that was certainly fun to do, to put it lightly. XD Steel Spines = Defensive Mindset, Golden Crystal = Massive Damage Boost. Pretty much a super strong baton that would make the Reaper look like its very little brother. XD As I said, balance wasn't super important as it was seeing what can be done.

Permission for the names, recipes, and "spirit" for the batons? I'll give you something better. I'll send you the modified Gf5itemschars.txt, Gf5objsmisc.txt, and the z11Tmeradlg.txt files shortly (You have to go to the Mera Smithy to get the batons. I haven't seen a way to add new recipes, so this is the workaround I had to use. Only the Mera Smithy at the moment has this; none of the other smithies will be able to create these batons). Save you some of the work of making them. Besides, I had a lot of fun making these, and while I'm not ready to release mods quite yet, I'd be more than happy to lend my work to other modders (as long as they ask nicely. :)). Especially in this case; Warriors/Guardians are the biggest underdog ever since Geneforge 3, and I would be more than happy to do anything to make them stronger as a class (Same goes for the Shock Trooper, but you aren't making a Shock Trooper mod, you're making a warrior mod, so... yeah. XD)

EDIT: Btw, the reason why all of the batons have a dexterity boost is because, I was thinking that, if you're modifying the creature in the baton to be better, one of those modifications might be that, alongside the infinite ammo, perhaps the creature in the baton has better depth perception, allowing it to aim at enemy targets better. To reflect that, I gave them a dexterity boost, since that makes the baton more accurate (Though in hindsight, maybe I should've just given the batons a missile weapons boost, since it does the same thing without making the character overall better at dodging and acting sooner in combat).

alhoon alhoon

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Posted 29 January 2017 - 10:36 PM #77 Scripting and modding GF5

Quote

which increase your Spellcraft tremendously when in your party... probably hardcoded
Probably not. Can be done with Script.


Using a similar script like in Perikalia when you buy Alphas etc (I could copy-paste it here) you could have a flag like
sf(95,1,0) [Friend absent] \ sf(95,1,1) [Friend with you] \ sf(95,1,2) [Friend with you and stronger]

and go on he\she\it joins
alter_stat(XX,gf(95,1)*2);

and once he\she\it leaves:
alter_stat(XX,-gf(95,1)*2);

With XX being the stat you want to raise. From Spellcraft, stregth, unlock spell or other abilities.



Quote

there are artifacts that give you +5 to all magic stats
And you can still make them on top of the Baton. Also, those don't deal a lot of ranged damage and status effects.
If that baton was available when playing a Shaper, I would go for that artifact perhaps, despite not using batons.


Quote

I had a lot of fun making these, and while I'm not ready to release mods quite yet, I'd be more than happy to lend my work to other modders
Very much appreciated!
Still, I think you should release them. I'll be happy to take a look and offer feedback if you want and send them back to you so you can make any last-minute changes and release friend.
Since you are willing to share (and rightfully! The artifact batons as an idea is very cool) why not bless the rest of the community with it, making the Fighting people's work a little easier?
Mera Tev is quite early. Early enough to generate attention.
"I am not mad, no matter what you're implying." - Litalia

GF5 mod with extra quest chain here!  Discover who you are and set up your base.

"Ohhh, no! No, it's so close! So close!" - Blxz, ambushed by an Unbound

Gameman112358 Gameman112358

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Posted 31 January 2017 - 12:27 AM #78 Scripting and modding GF5

Does Vampiric Touch really do much in the grand scheme of things? I haven't tried modifying the values yet, but Vampiric Touch doesn't seem to be particularly strong. It seems to refill your health each time you hurt an enemy, but the effect isn't exactly noticeable in my experiences...

alhoon alhoon

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Posted 31 January 2017 - 04:02 AM #79 Scripting and modding GF5

Never used a vampiric weapon to know...
Can't be less useful than the items that reduce energy needed by 5% when my Shaper barely drops below half energy.
"I am not mad, no matter what you're implying." - Litalia

GF5 mod with extra quest chain here!  Discover who you are and set up your base.

"Ohhh, no! No, it's so close! So close!" - Blxz, ambushed by an Unbound

alhoon alhoon

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Posted 03 February 2017 - 12:43 PM #80 Scripting and modding GF5

This just added to my warrior mod.

spawn_creature(47);
set_level(47+8, 25);
set_boss_level(47+8,1);
set_attack_bonus(47+8, 2);
set_name(47+8,"Clunky");
set_attitude(47+8,0);
set_walk_speed(47+8,42);
set_new_abil(47+8,12); // Thanks Gamerman112358!


Haven't reached Batons yet...
In case you wonder, Clunky is an augmented (as you can see) stinging Clawbug that aside of else causes fear with his stinger. Through things I won't spoil, Clunky is a temporary ally of the player. Not added to the party, but under the player's control. Clunky may help the player in combat or be thrown to delay enemies and die bravely while the player opts for... less call it self-preservation over glory and makes a tactical retreat.


And yes, the thank you will be in the script.
"I am not mad, no matter what you're implying." - Litalia

GF5 mod with extra quest chain here!  Discover who you are and set up your base.

"Ohhh, no! No, it's so close! So close!" - Blxz, ambushed by an Unbound

Gameman112358 Gameman112358

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Posted 04 February 2017 - 01:06 PM #81 Scripting and modding GF5

A Stinging Clawbug that can poison + fear enemies, alongside having a very high movement speed? That's pretty strong. Something to point out: increasing the walk speed of a creature does affect how much distance it can cover in combat. What that means is that a creature with a higher walk speed can cover much more ground in 8 turns compared to a creature that has standard/slower walk speed. Something to keep in mind. :)

I'm kinda curious where this thing shows up and how much health it will have, since the phrase "thorn to delay enemies and die bravely" for a tactical retreat makes it sound like it can take a lot of hits before going down.

alhoon alhoon

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Posted 04 February 2017 - 02:27 PM #82 Scripting and modding GF5

Nah, he was less powerful than my creations apparently. All those +4 to creations stats added up and Clunky was the odd one. Missing 55% of the time. Had to bless and shield him before sending him to delay ~6-7 powerful creations. He didn't hold a single round poor shod. Clunky had about 1000 hp.

I knew about the advanced combat speed in battle, but frankly 50% speed increase was not that much.
After doing a few things, the player can opt for Shaping himself (well, allowing an NPC to do it actually) to give him 50% speed increase the same way or some other modification.

I wanted to make poor Clunky a memorable creation without making him 35 level or something. If I make a Clawbug with my character, it would be worse. But simply put Clunky doesn't come close to Tralls or Gazers.
"I am not mad, no matter what you're implying." - Litalia

GF5 mod with extra quest chain here!  Discover who you are and set up your base.

"Ohhh, no! No, it's so close! So close!" - Blxz, ambushed by an Unbound

Gameman112358 Gameman112358

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Posted 04 February 2017 - 02:51 PM #83 Scripting and modding GF5

It would be pretty damn funny if Clunky was actually capable of standing up to a horde of Tralls/Gazers/*insert high powered creation here*. Just imagine: a little clawbug facing off against a bunch of massive, super powerful creations... and the claw bug comes out on top. XD Cue trololol song. XD XD XD

idonotexist42 idonotexist42

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Posted 04 February 2017 - 05:50 PM #84 Scripting and modding GF5

On the subject of Clawbugs, in Gf5 the plated Clawbug that the player makes and the rogue one are separate creatures in the scripts (unlike some of the upgrade creations) and I buffed the players version immensely, called it an "Assault Clawbug" Balance wise, despite the significant buffs it doesn't feel OP and it gets outclassed by the time you make it into the storm plains. It can hold its own ok against glaaks and Alphas/betas but past that they start to get squishy despite being tough little bugs. I gave them back the poison sting, one extra AP on top of the existing bonus (for a total of 3), gave them natural armor, buffed resistances, especially physical, parry, quick action, dexterity and strength bonus stats. recolored them grey. That sounds like a lot but weirdly it doesn't play crazy. what they do make is a very solid creation for the Mera chapter and the beginning of the storm plains. It won't trivialize the enemies but it makes them easier than they would be with regular t2 creations or upgraded t1.

I can post my modded scripts with the balance tweaks I've done if anyone wants them. I didn't add content to the game but I like to think I improved upon the existing stuff that I modified. They're not quite finished but the meat and potatoes are in there. Once I finish my current playthrough of the game and make the changes I want as I go it'll be mostly finished but probably I'll tweak the numbers further after I do another play through the game starting with all my mods already in place to see how it feels and refine the balance.

Vampiric Regeneration seems weak because none of the items that have it have very much of it and the blessing crystal effect doesn't add much of it either. Try giving an item more of the stat and see how much more of an effect it has than it did before. I think you get back in health the same amount as the stat on the item is, it's not a percentage of the damage you deal. I buffed the existing "thirsting items" and especially the "Thirsting Knife" and it's not super useful where I am in the game now because I'm not taking that much damage and so I haven't had a chance to see whether it could save my ass in a tight spot or not but it's less trivial feeling.

The stats for the batons need tweaking but it's a cool concept and great that you've gotten as far as you have in implementing it already. giving them status effects otherwise unobtainable to the PC's attack is a good idea to make them special though. I actually gave reapers the searing lightning status effect anyway though because it seemed appropriate.

Gameman112358 Gameman112358

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Posted 04 February 2017 - 06:10 PM #85 Scripting and modding GF5

I just added a bunch of the vampiric regeneration onto an item... I can say now that it is probably the most useless stat I've ever seen. I put +80 of that stat on a dagger, and not only does it not trigger all of the time (sometimes it does, mostly it doesn't), it only heals 1 HP regardless how much you put into it. 1 FREAKING HP.

I wish we could mod what each stat does exactly, because I would buff the hell out of Vampiric Regeneration.

Also, yeah, it is possible to change the creations that the PC creates, while also ensuring that none of the creations in game are affected. I think most of the creations that the PC makes are separate from the creations that are seen in-game, so you can alter the majority of them, I think. I'll try exploring that further at some point. Only caveat is that changing the "decaying" creations (Charged Vlish, Corrupted Thahds) won't prevent the decaying effect from being put onto the creature, I think (Translation: the altered creature will still die once you leave the zone or it's been left alone for too long. I don't know if there's a way around this; if there is, I'd like to know about it, simply so I can replace the Charged Vlish with a different Vlish variant).

idonotexist42 idonotexist42

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Posted 04 February 2017 - 06:30 PM #86 Scripting and modding GF5

I had the idea for an artifact melee weapon mod, because even though Ranged definitely needed the most love, Melee deserves some help too. So far I've tweaked a lot of "special" melee weapons and made them actually special and buffed them to be viable to incentivize players to collect and keep multiple swords, but I had this thought that there could be a crafting quest to gather these special weapons and enhance and/or combine them further.

One of the problems I have with spicing up melee is that because of when the player gets certain items in the game, that item has to be sorta balanced around the part of the game they're playing in. Currently a lot of things are already underpowered by the time you get them, or become obsolete quickly, but if you balance around how you want weapons to perform at endgame and buff them enough to do that, the earlier game weapons become hilariously OP for the part of the game you find them and you wind up with the opposite problem as you started with. By having upgradeable weapons gated by quests and items you need to acquire that can be timed around specific parts of the game, you eliminate that balance issue since you can just have the items scale in power to your enemies and achievements instead of just being stuck at the level they were discovered.

I was thinking that a couple designated artifact weapons could be the main focus of the mod and then the other lesser weapons you collect can be fused into your primary greater weapon. You don't compete with the regular artifacts for ingredients because the ingredients for the artifact weapons are existing weapons and it incentives you to go kill bosses and loot stuff and gives you something to do with those unique drops besides selling them like common vendor trash the way you usually would.

The main scripting obstacles I see are actually with scripting the new upgraded weapons because there's properties I'd like to give to them that I don't know are actually possible. Like an attack doing multiple status effects and multiple damage types.

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Posted 04 February 2017 - 09:11 PM #87 Scripting and modding GF5

Gamerman: There has been a lot of work on changing creations already. More or less it's... in a Thread I don't remember. Someone changed the PC roamers to something else and I think that's the most interesting change since Roamers are the weakest IMO. There has been a couple of people talking about them.

I have been thinking for example to change wingbolts with podlings for the PC. But that seemed strange.

Clawbugs were quite powerful IMO as they were but each to its own.

Idonotexist: I think it's possible to give multiple status effect and attack types. Not on the weapon itself but on a new attack type.
However, I'm not an expert. Gamerman has pulled some nice effects on the artifact baton and I think he could tell us if there could be multiple attack types and effects.
"I am not mad, no matter what you're implying." - Litalia

GF5 mod with extra quest chain here!  Discover who you are and set up your base.

"Ohhh, no! No, it's so close! So close!" - Blxz, ambushed by an Unbound

Gameman112358 Gameman112358

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Posted 04 February 2017 - 09:32 PM #88 Scripting and modding GF5

Actually, the Artifact Sword mod was something that I was planning to do myself, as something that would go alongside my Artifact Baton mod. The Artifact Swords would use components that you would find relatively commonly (talking like weapon enchantment crystals, swords, maybe attack crystals like the Icy Crystal), which you would then give to a smithy, who, with a fee, gives you a powerful weapon to use. Pretty much my artifact baton work, but with swords. :)

Podlings in place of Wingbolts? That wouldn't be a good switch, since Podlings are annoying because of the fact that they come in numbers + they have AoE status effect attacks. Their attacks don't really do a lot of damage individually, and enemies get aggroed to whatever hit them last, meaning that PC made podlings are going to be going down fast unless they've got a lot of support. If treatable, they're more of less support creations, used to spread debuffs to numerous enemies. That would be more fitting at t2-t3, where you can take out one of the weaker creations (*Cough* Glaahks *Cough*) and put podlings in. Not t4, and taking Wingbolt's position. Also, keep in mind that changing what creation won't change the essence cost (I think), meaning that podlings are going to be very expensive to make if they take the Wingbolt's slot.

I can tell you guys right now that you can't have attacks with multiple damage types and multiple status effects. At least not with the gf5objsmisc script. I've tried; you can only have one status effect at a time for an attack ability. Same with the damage type; there doesn't seem to be a way to implement multiple damage types. Only thing that seems to have multiple status effects is the blessing spells like Battle Roar, which seem to be tied with the ab_effect_type line, not the ab_status_effect line. You can buff blessing spells to have multiple effects if you know what you're doing (I made Battle Roar give everyone Essence Blade alongside its other buffs, for example), but I don't think it's possible to have attacks with multiple damage types and status effects (Believe me, if there was a way to make it possible to have multiple status effects and damage types on attacks, I would've utilized that in all my modifications, experimental and released, like the Artifact Baton mod).

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Posted 04 February 2017 - 09:55 PM #89 Scripting and modding GF5

Sad to  hear about the lack of a way to add more damage types or status effects.
Yet, there was a misunderstanding: Poison, acid, that electric aura thing...different forms of damage IMO even if they are just status effects. Like Rotgroth's attacks.

Wingbolts: By the time I got them, I already had Gazers. Never built a wingbolt in the game (not that I built Glaahks) but I could have used a mass-curse creation.

But taking out Wingbolts? For ugly things like podlings? Nah, couldn't get myself to do it. That's like changing Alphas (boring and kinda weak for their cost) with patchworks (equally boring and uglier).
Couldn't even get myself to have Podlings join the party like I do with NPCs.
"I am not mad, no matter what you're implying." - Litalia

GF5 mod with extra quest chain here!  Discover who you are and set up your base.

"Ohhh, no! No, it's so close! So close!" - Blxz, ambushed by an Unbound

Gameman112358 Gameman112358

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Posted 04 February 2017 - 10:11 PM #90 Scripting and modding GF5

Well, you can have multiple damage types, since it's the weapon ability + status effects, but that's pretty limited, all things considered.

Ohhhh. I see. So the problem is that Wingbolts come too late to be useful, since you already have Gazers. Not sure how you do it, but I won't ask (I usually have Wingbolts come waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay before I come close to getting Gazers, so... YMMV, I guess.) Don't know why they have the same attack; that's just asking for redundancy to happen. XD

Here's the problem: Wingbolts cost 140 essence; replacing them with podlings means that you're going to be coughing up 140 essence + essence for 2 intelligence to get podlings (Can't change essence costs, don't forget), which don't have a very good attack in terms of damage (great status effects though), and not so hot survivability. Dunno about you, but Podlings are better off replacing freaking Glaahks than Wingbolts. At least Wingbolts have a strong attack... Though I was considering giving Wingbolts a different attack to use. Or something else to differentiate them from Gazers... Diamond Spray Wingbolts, anyone? XD (NPC Wingbolts keep the regular attack, just the ones the PC creates will have that attack)

So basically you couldn't replace Wingbolts with Podlings because they're too ugly in terms of graphics? Not even as a joinable NPC? Wow. XD XD XD Yeah, the new creations (Patchworks and Podlings) were given some pretty hideous graphics. It's even noted in-universe; the game via pop up text or NPC conversations will occasionally comment on how ugly those things are. Can't argue that they're powerful and annoying as hell though.

idonotexist42 idonotexist42

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Posted 04 February 2017 - 10:58 PM #91 Scripting and modding GF5

I turned the Charged Vilish into a Podling type creation essentially. It's still a Vlish (A purple, glowing Vlish), I didn't literally turn it into a Podling, but I gave it one of the Podling attacks (Slow Rain) and buffed the hell out of it overall. It's not OP but definitely more worth the essence than it was before and gives you some AOE damage and de-buff ability, and earlier in the game. I like Wingbolts, I think they're good creations for the essence and I wouldn't want to replace them with Podlings. I think I gave Diamond Spray to the Charged Upgrade Wingbolt and changed the name from Unstable Firebolt to "Unstable Thunderbolt" or something. I think the regular Wingbolt is fine as is, and it serves the niche of a mid-late game ranged single-target creation very nicely. Sure, they share an attack with Gazers but their energy bolt is way weaker than the Gazers and several of the fire creations also share attacks that are just stronger version of the earlier tier's breath weapon.


The only way I know to give an attack multiple damage types or status effects is through blessing crystals because those are applied to the item as stats not as part of the base ability. The problem is that the damage from them is trivial, most of the debuff status effects aren't guaranteed to be applied on every hit, and I think giving them to an item via the scripts blocks you from using another crystal on it in game (I could be wrong though). I had one possible thing to try: blessing crystals only give 1 point of their assigned stat to an item, I'm not sure how those stats behave, but maybe you could take a sword and give it several points of "fire/cold essence" to make it do more extra elemental damage than you'd get from just the regular blessing crystal. I suppose that if nothing else that could let you give a point each of more than one enhancement to let an attack do multiple status effects.

Gameman112358 Gameman112358

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Posted 04 February 2017 - 11:33 PM #92 Scripting and modding GF5

I actually tried what you suggested just now; giving it several points of fire/cold essence. I gave it +80, just to see if the large number will do anything. Did absolutely nothing. You can't just add the stat to the weapon; you need to use the crystal. I tried to buff the crystal itself, but it didn't give any extra damage or anything.

I never bother with the charged creations all that much; the problem I have with them is that they decay away once you leave the zone or you don't heal them for a period of time. They're literally expendable, and that makes them unreliable. The worst part is that kills they make are leeching exp away from my character, since while the charged creations can gain exp, it doesn't matter for them since they can't level up if they're just going to die the moment I leave the map. Though I did find out that Pyroroamers don't have the decaying effect present on charged creations, surprisingly. That means I can buff them to my heart's content, without worrying about them essentially decaying away (Too bad it isn't possible to change the essence cost of a creation. Pyroroamers are pretty damn cheap in terms of essence cost, both for their creation and the amount of essence you need to put extra skill points into them. Doesn't help that you can get the upgraded roamer variant very early on because you get +1 to Shape Roamer from Rawal, and you can easily get +2 Shape Roamer skill from Haria-Kel).

idonotexist42 idonotexist42

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Posted 05 February 2017 - 02:24 AM #93 Scripting and modding GF5

:( that is a shame :(

See the problem with the charged creations was that the intent was to have situationally useful disposable but extra powerful creatures to be like shock troops for hard boss fights and masses of enemies, they're temporary but wreck face while they're up and it's supposed to be a worthwhile tradeoff but they're not the way the current creatures are implemented. I tried to make the charged creations all worth the essence and viable by buffing them and giving them unique qualities. The charged Thadh I made so it's like a miniature Rot, not as powerful as a real Rot by any means but they could come in handy and their acid attack was useful especially in the beginning. Charged Vlish becomes AOE Debuff Podling with a weaker version of the gazers melee attack I think I gave it, damage shield. it's good for when you have packs even in the late game it's just fragile and you have to be careful with it. The charged Wingbolt I've alternately given either diamond spray or purifying rain, and upping their stats even further than they are. Figured Diamond Spray gave it uniqueness but fit with the creation because it was the multi target version of it's regular attack basically, and stronger so it had situational usefulness to burn down packs of foes with burst damage. For Purifying Rain, I figured it was already named the Unstable Firebolt so I'd work with that and not have to rename it and I wanted that multi target damage and I figured since a Wingbolt is already a Knockoff Gazer, why not have the upgraded Wingbolt be a knockoff Eyebeast? I can't remember which version I have presently in my scripts. The Burning Kyshakk mostly just got flat buffs because it was already good and had a niche. The Shock Trall was already good but I made it stronger by buffing the stunning rock ability itself and making the stun more stunny so it can really lock down enemies and not just be a Trall with extra AP.

Pyroamers I totally replaced the PC's Shaped ones with Cryoroamers. Figure ice version of the base creation is the theme for Fire creations, the Cryoroamer is a souped up Cryoa with better melee basically. They're not OP as creations but they're a little too good for their essence cost probably, they become largely obsolete by middle of the storm plains but before that you can have a horde of them because they're so cheap and they slaughter everything. Having two in your party? plays totally balanced. Have six and you've got leftover essence still for spells? a little much.

alhoon alhoon

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Posted 05 February 2017 - 05:47 AM #94 Scripting and modding GF5

I haven't read the whole conversation yet, but I'll reply to a couple things:
Gazers: I may remember wrong. Perhaps it was Tralls I got before Wingbolts and between Tralls and Kyshaaks Wingbolts while powerful were a waste of essence.

Expensive podlings: It would be easy to increase their damage. I was talking about a character specific podling, not messing with the rest. Also Weak attack against 3 enemies = 3 weak attacks, don't forget that. A podling is an always-hit mass Vlish attack.
Vlish: It's not that those flying sacks of tentacles would win any beauty pageants...
Glaahks: At least they have a specific function: being close combat magic creations.
On the ugliness of Podlings: That Drakon fellow made them. Obviously drakons have different views on form. But the patchworks? Those were made by Shapers! They are in the foundry. No wonder they're in the foundry and in just a few other places.
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Gameman112358 Gameman112358

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Posted 05 February 2017 - 05:46 PM #95 Scripting and modding GF5

A character specific podling? Which one? Is it a new one you had in mind, or is it one of the existing ones? Existing ones are regular Podlings (Weakening Rain), Armored Podlings (Curse Rain, not really armored though), and Assault Podlings (Slow Rain). Unless you're making a new Podling type that only the PC can summon, in which case I'm curious what you have in mind.

Vlish are pretty ugly too, I will admit. Powerful though, which is funny given that even though they were hit pretty hard with the nerf bat, they're still good. XD Still kinda wish it was possible to replace the Charged Vlish with a different Vlish type (You can replace the Charged Vlish, but the Decaying effect still applies, meaning that the new summon will die the moment it either doesn't get healed or you leave the zone).

Glaahks IMO don't do their job well enough. How I see it is that they're meant to charge in and essentially stun lock an enemy, using the fact that their melee attack supposedly causes the enemy to be stun locked in place. However, that only works for the enemy, simply because they have numbers on their side, while for the player, that Glaahk is taking up a creation slot. Which can be used for any other powerful creation. Even worse for the Ur-Glaahk; more essence spent, and it's not that much better relative to essence spent. I would not hesitate to replace Glaahks and Ur-Glaahks with Podlings and Armored Podlings (with some heavy buffs) respectively simply because Podlings fit the whole 'magic debuff attacker' schtick better (Though I'd probably be more likely to massively buff Glaahks and Ur-Glaahks if that was the case, since it is possible to buff those two creations while ensuring that enemy creations don't become ridiculous as well).

Podlings are made exclusively by the rebels, I think. I have never seen Podlings as part of a Shaper attack force, nor have I seen them in Shaper fortifications. Only rebel attack forces and defenders have Podlings mixed in with them, and I think some NPCs note that Podlings are a rebel-exclusive thing. Patchworks I've only seen in the Foundry, which is Shaper controlled, yes. But I've seen them waaaaaay more with the rebels, not the Shapers. So who made the Patchworks first is up for debate.

alhoon alhoon

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Posted 05 February 2017 - 06:04 PM #96 Scripting and modding GF5

Never put too much thought on which podling I would custom-copy-paste for the player, since I never put too much thought in putting them in.
Podlings are Rebel only and made by that Drakon that makes the Shredbugs IIRC.

Patchworks outside the foundry are rogue IIRC.

Charged creation... I used the Kyshaaks extensively as suicide bombers in the late game.


ALSO: You were right that I got Wingbolts before Gazer. I loaded a fairly old game. Tralls was the ones I got early on. Still kept the Kyshaak I had in that save and I don't regret it. Leveled up Kyshaak suit my game better.
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Gameman112358 Gameman112358

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Posted 05 February 2017 - 06:34 PM #97 Scripting and modding GF5

I actually don't like Charged Creations simply because they:
1. Leech EXP off of you, since they will die the moment you leave a zone, meaning any level ups they get are pointless.
2. Aren't exactly much stronger than their regular variant for the most part (Charged Vlish is the worst offender, though I think there are other examples)
3. (Personal Playstyle problem) I like to keep creations alive. Unit preservation is sorta my way of playing the game. I won't try keep a fyora for the whole game, but I am going to try and keep my creations alive if I can. (My experiments on the script are actually to encourage this play style; make it easier to hold on to creations. Too bad there is no way to alter essence costs for creations, otherwise I would cut the essence costs for adding additional skill points to creations by 50%-75%. You wouldn't want to keep a t1 creation alive all game, but you would have more incentive to try and level up existing units. Adds more options to the game.) Charged Creations go completely against that play style, simply because they're designed to die, and I can't do anything about it.

Those reasons are why I wish it was possible to swap these charged creations with something else. I wish I knew how to get rid of the decaying effect, because if I did, I would swap out these charged creations with something else instantly. (I miss terror vlish, for example.)

Charged Kyshakks are definitely good suicide bombers, I will admit. Extra AP is never bad either. Pretty expensive for a suicide unit though.

alhoon alhoon

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Posted 05 February 2017 - 11:47 PM #98 Scripting and modding GF5

I actually kept my cryora alive to the very end. Boosted her starts too in the end. A 44 lvl Cryora with extra stats costs like a Cryodrayk and is better or same.
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Gameman112358 Gameman112358

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Posted 06 February 2017 - 02:26 PM #99 Scripting and modding GF5

Cryoas are one of the few creations that you can viably keep with you for most of the game. Same thing can't really be said about all of the other creations, though. And Cryoas still lack some of the aspects of a Cryodrayk (Resistances, for example). So they're not that much better than Cryodrayks, but have a very similar essence cost. You also have to keep the Cryoa alive for a really long time. Not worth the investment IMO. There isn't really anything in the game to give players reasons to keep their older creations alive once you get stronger creations. That being said, it probably wouldn't be hard to simply buff lower level creations so they are able to scale better in the later parts of the game.

It is possible to change what creations the PC can make though. The majority of creations the PC can create can be separated from the NPC versions, with a little bit of work. Not all of them, but the majority of them. I remember making it so that the PC can create Battle Gammas instead of Battle Betas as the upgraded variant for the Battle Alpha, for example (I think Battle Gammas were a much better choice for the upgraded variant, since it has +4 AP and is substantially stronger than Alphas or Betas).

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Posted 06 February 2017 - 08:48 PM #100 Scripting and modding GF5

While you're right there's not enough to the game to make player want to keep their old creations, I would panic a lot more if my 12-to-40+ (ending lvl 44) level Cryora was close to die than any of my creations. I liked her.

Not reason enough to keep her? Perhaps. But not reason enough to ditch her either as the game was at such difficulty that I could spare the slot without trouble. And at level 40+ with all my artifacts and boosted dex? She didn't need resistances. She was almost never hit.
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Gameman112358 Gameman112358

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Posted 06 February 2017 - 11:15 PM #101 Scripting and modding GF5

Hmm. Actually, speaking of smaller creations, I actually found a way to buff them, sort of. In my head, t1-t2 creations aren't super big, at least when compared to later creations, such as Wingbolts, Battle Alphas/Betas/Gammas, Rotghroths, and Drakons. There was an interesting stat I found, called cr_nimbleness. Basically, from what I can gather, this stat increases the dodging chance for the creature that has it. So for example, if I set cr_nimbleness = 40; onto a creature in the script, that would increase its dodging chance by 40% (From what I've seen), essentially meaning that a 50% chance to hit becomes a 10% to hit. I noticed this stat on 'ghost' creatures, like specters, ghosts, and other things of the sort. I actually at one point made a joinable NPC have cr_nimbleness = 50; in its part of the script. Yeah... let's just say no enemy could hit her no matter how hard they tried. XD

This might actually be a good way to buff some of the smaller creations. Smaller creations can be more nimble, and thus, be harder to hit. Roamers and Fyora/Cryoas in particular. I know boosting dexterity or luck would probably achieve the same thing, but still, more useful scripting information to use. Bigger creations have massive health pools and other things to help them stay strong, while smaller creations would be better at dodging attacks outright, to make up for their lack of DPT and health pools. Just putting ideas out there. Going to experimenting more with this myself.

Oh, and increasing the levels of t1-t2 creations and their upgrades might make it a little easier to keep them alive to the end. Currently, the level discrepancy makes it extremely difficult to keep lower level creations alive and viable at the endgame. To take your example alhoon, if I were to boost the base Cryoa's level from 12 to 20 and set cr_abil_level 1; from 0 to 4 (The same levels as the NPC 'Savage Cryoa' players face at many parts of the game), you would have to work much less to bring that cryoa to the same level of a Cryodrayk, and it would not take a lot of extra effort to make that cryoa surpass a cryodrayk (Freshly made, not ones that you keep for a long time). That would encourage people to keep their creations around a little more. Having said that, it might make the earlier parts very easy, given that Savage Cryoas were no joke to fight against, and having the PC make them would be pretty strong. But then again, Cryoas aren't cheap in terms of essence cost for both creation at the start and stat boosts, so it might not be as bad as I think. Just my ideas. Also, more scripting ideas! :)

EDIT: And actually, speaking of Cryodrayks, I'm kinda curious why NPC cryodrayks have extra AP; they have as much extra AP as a Battle Gamma! Giving a strong ranged attack two attacks per turn? Really? Why? Just why?

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Posted 07 February 2017 - 04:21 AM #102 Scripting and modding GF5

NPC  Cryodrayks? For balance reasons I guess.
And while a savage Cryora could be useful till the end game... she would be a total annihilator at levels 8-9 or so... You get Cryoras VERY early.
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Gameman112358 Gameman112358

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Posted 07 February 2017 - 04:28 PM #103 Scripting and modding GF5

Oh yeah, let's just give an already powerful creation (Cryodrayks) the ability to move and still attack twice. That's totally balanced... XD I'm actually tempted to see how broken PC made Cryodrayks would be if the PC made ones had the +AP... XD (NPC Cryodrayks get +4 AP, btw)

Maybe not to the level of the Savage Cryoa, considering how strong it is, but it would be closer. Increase the level of PC made Cryoas (NPC ones are unchanged) from 12 to 16, and give them cr_nimbleness = 20; (Makes them harder to hit; in this case, 20% harder to hit. 30% -> 10%). I don't know, I'm just thinking of ways to make lower level creations viable.

Also, btw, I think I'll be dabbling in Artifact Swords, once I have the time. I think I'll be doing something a little bit different this time; this time, you need a 'unique' sword from the start, like the Captain's Shiv or the Stunning Blade, for example, instead of just taking a generic sword. You then put Purifying Elixir onto them, which will boost them, much like Artifact Batons. You can then put certain materials to really make them powerful, again, much like the Artifact Batons. These swords will have a set specialization based on the starting sword and the materials put in. I'll probably be changing things regarding the swords as I go, so feel free to give me suggestions. :)

EDIT: Also, I'm trying to think of what to replace the Pyroroamer with. The main problem is that the Pyroroamer is pretty bad as a creation, but it's really damn cheap in terms of essence costs. Putting a super strong roamer variant into that slot would create a lot of problems, simply because it's not difficult to get the Roamer's upgraded form early on, and as noted, it isn't terribly expensive to create them and increase their stats. Considering maybe buffing the regular roamers first, then make the cheaper upgrade more of a side-grade; essentially, the new roamer form would be very strong in terms of damage, but it would be a glass cannon; it wouldn't need too many hits to die. Alternatively, it could be the other way around; does less damage than a regular roamer, but it can debuff enemies and it has a lot of HP and resistances. There's probably more ideas around this forum, so ideas are welcomed. :)

EDIT 2: Also, considering the idea of merging the Artifact Baton mod with the later Artifact Swords mod, as well as some other weapon mods I have in mind (javelins, some other stuff), and then calling the new mod "Artifact Weapons" mod. Just putting it out there.

alhoon alhoon

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Posted 07 February 2017 - 06:15 PM #104 Scripting and modding GF5

No more useless javelins? That's heresy! Apostasy! Apostasy and heresy!

Roamers: I think glass cannon is better. Vlish Debuffs.
I like your idea of taking unique weapons, perfect them and then turn them to nice things.
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Gameman112358 Gameman112358

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Posted 07 February 2017 - 10:18 PM #105 Scripting and modding GF5

It wouldn't be hard, actually. Javelins actually have the same mechanics as batons; they use ammo to fire a projectile. Simply removing the ammo problem and giving the Javelins some perks would make them stronger, much like the artifact batons. Only problem is that I'm not sure how to ensure that artifact Javelins and artifact Batons are distinct from one another; considering that both are ranged weapons, I'm trying to think of ways to ensure that neither weapon would make the other redundant. Ideas welcomed. :)

Artifact swords will be something I will enjoy making. Melee has always been sorta dead after GF3, after the multiplier nerf. It wouldn't be hard to set it back; simply set for "Broadsword" type weapons ab_effect_per_level = 8; to unnerf sword attacks, but at the same time, why not go a step further? Take unique swords, put more materials, and make them into very powerful ones. I'll get to that when I have the chance. Though I have some ideas on what to do with the swords.

Not Vlish debuffs. More like "weakening" acid. The roamer I had in mind would use an acid based attack much like the regular searer, but it causes the 'weaken' status effect instead of poison. Though I'll be honest, most of the t1-t2 creations need buffs, with Roamers, Thahds, and Artilas being the worst offenders. Some upgrade variants as well; Plated Artilas aren't the greatest (I gave them 50% physical resistance in my experiments along with stronger existing resistances, and at one point, +2 AP. It helps them a bit.), and Pyroroamers straight up suck, which is why I'm considering these ideas. I'll be buffing and changing regular roamers first before I touch Pyroroamers (Btw, I'm making sure that NPC creations, friendly or not, don't get these buffs. These will be for PC made creations only; the enemy already gets a numerical advantage and other bullsh*t to throw at you, so it would be horrific if enemies were suddenly x20 stronger).

I'm also considering replacing the type of Vlish that the PC can create at the start; Curse is good, but at the same time, looking at the variants of Vlish that can be seen, I want to give the PC a different Vlish type to make. There are so many to choose from, not mentioning the possibility of custom Vlish types. Just an idea. :)





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