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Scripting and modding GF5

Geneforge GF modding mod editor script

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Gameman112358 Gameman112358

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Posted 13 January 2017 - 10:06 PM #36 Scripting and modding GF5

Managed to fix it, I think. Dunno what happened exactly; I'll keep an eye out in my testing to see what happened.

Also, I was actually tempted to use the Zone Simulator to add more canisters to areas. Mostly because I like being a power hungry maniac at times. XD Probably wouldn't be hard to do either, all things considered. Kinda curious if any modders have ever simply filled a room with tons of canisters to use. Or made the Geneforge give tons of stat bonuses (Much like in the first game) for the sake of roflstomping everything a few times. XD

alhoon alhoon

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Posted 14 January 2017 - 05:17 AM #37 Scripting and modding GF5

There are much easier ways to raise stats than the zone simulator.

Go to the script for a signpost, and make it give you xp, stats, gold, max health, whatever.
"I am not mad, no matter what you're implying." - Litalia

GF5 mod with extra quest chain here!  Discover who you are and set up your base.

"Ohhh, no! No, it's so close! So close!" - Blxz, ambushed by an Unbound

Gameman112358 Gameman112358

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Posted 19 January 2017 - 12:05 AM #38 Scripting and modding GF5

Meh. I know there are super easy ways to increase stats, but I've done that a lot of times, so I figured I may as well see what the Zone Simulator is capable of (It can do a lot of things to modify the game, short of adding a whole new zone to the game). Adding a ton of canisters is just one of those things I decided to mess around with.

alhoon alhoon

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Posted 19 January 2017 - 06:27 AM #39 Scripting and modding GF5

Quote

It can do a lot of things to modify the game, short of adding a whole new zone to the game
I am not sure about that. It can certainly replace a whole zone with a lot of effort.
"I am not mad, no matter what you're implying." - Litalia

GF5 mod with extra quest chain here!  Discover who you are and set up your base.

"Ohhh, no! No, it's so close! So close!" - Blxz, ambushed by an Unbound

Gameman112358 Gameman112358

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Posted 19 January 2017 - 02:25 PM #40 Scripting and modding GF5

I meant like a completely new, original zone being added to the game. You can replace zones, but it doesn't seem like you can create entirely new ones.

alhoon alhoon

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Posted 19 January 2017 - 04:10 PM #41 Scripting and modding GF5

As in, Zone 83?
I also don't think I can...
But has anyone Tried? Are we sure the game will go berserk if there's more zones?


EDIT: I Could replace GF5 areas with GF4 areas. But it requires some work as some columns are in different places and creatures are different. I.e. just copying all zones from GF4 to GF5 would not work. It requires some work. So, no porting GF4 in GF5 with just a few buttons.
For GF3, it wouldn't work at all, as zones in GF3 have less and different info.
"I am not mad, no matter what you're implying." - Litalia

GF5 mod with extra quest chain here!  Discover who you are and set up your base.

"Ohhh, no! No, it's so close! So close!" - Blxz, ambushed by an Unbound

alhoon alhoon

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Posted 19 January 2017 - 06:32 PM #42 Scripting and modding GF5

Quote

but it doesn't seem like you can create entirely new ones
We thought wrong. I added a zone. :cool:

To be clear: I added a new zone, not replacing any zone. It's easy to do so actually.
I have visited and fought in the new zone. With practice, I could put the zone on the map and give it an icon.

Making a nice zone though, is a completely different matter. It would take days, unless I figure a way to do it quickly.
I was thinking making a bitmap in paint, converting it to table in matlab, replace the colors with the "proper" ground. Lighting is easy.

Terrain is NOT easy. Objects are a complete drain. Creations are easy.
I think I'll be better off, cloning a cave or something and making changes there.


While I added just one zone, I think the limit is 99 zones total, so you can probably add 17 extra zones. That's as big as the Storm Plains...
Someone, not me, but someone, could add a whole new province!

EDIT:
There's something in the script called "set_new_abil" and "set_strategy" as well as "bless_char". You can see them in the script of zone 56. No idea what they do.
"I am not mad, no matter what you're implying." - Litalia

GF5 mod with extra quest chain here!  Discover who you are and set up your base.

"Ohhh, no! No, it's so close! So close!" - Blxz, ambushed by an Unbound

Gameman112358 Gameman112358

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Posted 20 January 2017 - 04:51 PM #43 Scripting and modding GF5

So it is possible to make new zones. Huh. Probably a little time consuming to do, but good information for any modders out there. :)

I'm not sure what set_strategy does exactly; I've never really tampered with it. My speculation is that it can change the behavior of creatures that are specified, but I can only guess what it does exactly.

Set_new_abil allows creatures to have new perks added to them. I have a list of all of the ones I have found.

Counter abilities are ones where if an enemy attacks this creature with a melee attack, the enemy will gain a status effect immediately after doing so. Only works for melee attacks, if it lands. Has no effect on ranged attacks.
set_new_abil(1000,1); Curse Counter
set_new_abil(1000,2); Slow Counter
set_new_abil(1000,3); Acid Counter
set_new_abil(1000,4); Poison Counter
set_new_abil(1000,5); Charm Counter
set_new_abil(1000,6); Terror Counter
set_new_abil(1000,8); Spike Counter (Simply damages the enemy)
Strike abilities are where the creature's melee attacks are augmented to have a status effect inflicted on an enemy if it lands. You can combine these with status effect attacks in the gf5objsmisc script, where you can have melee attacks be able to cause two status effects at once. Only works with melee attacks, no effect on ranged attacks.
set_new_abil(1000,10); Poison Strike
set_new_abil(1000,11); Acid Strike
set_new_abil(1000,12); Fear Strike
set_new_abil(1000,13); Charm Strike
set_new_abil(1000,15); Slow Strike
This one is special because once you assign a creature with this ability, it gains a bunch of extra action points. I don't remember the exact number, but I think it was 4-5 extra APs. Basically creatures with this ability can still move pretty far and still be able to shoot twice.
set_new_abil(1000,20); Extra Action Points

To use these abilities, simply replace the 1000 with whatever the creature's zone number is, then put it into the script. That creature should have that ability. Do note that this also works with creatures that are capable of joining you. Companions can gain these abilities if you put it into the script. Also, these abilities also work for the player character itself, by simply putting in pc_num() in place of the 1000.

bless_char basically makes it so that the creature it is applied to has all three of the essence enchantments in the game. Essence Armor, Essence Blade, Essence Infusion, all at the same time. Normally you can only get one enchantment at a time, but bless_char allows creatures to have all three at once.
bless_char(1000,2);  All Essence Enchantments
Again, replace the 1000 with the creature's zone number, then put this into the zone script. Do not change the two; it doesn't do anything if you do. Again, you can put this on the player character, putting in pc_num() instead of 1000 and putting this into the zone script.

The abilities stay on the creature regardless of what zone you're in. Useful for companions, since they can retain their ability regardless of zone. You can only apply one ability to a creature at a time; if you try to apply two abilities, one of the abilities will override the other, meaning that only one ability is taking effect.  bless_char only seem to work in the zone that it was put in; it doesn't stay on the character if it goes to a different zone. At least based on my testing.

alhoon alhoon

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Posted 20 January 2017 - 06:54 PM #44 Scripting and modding GF5

Good to know. Very good to know.
"I am not mad, no matter what you're implying." - Litalia

GF5 mod with extra quest chain here!  Discover who you are and set up your base.

"Ohhh, no! No, it's so close! So close!" - Blxz, ambushed by an Unbound

Gameman112358 Gameman112358

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Posted 21 January 2017 - 01:40 AM #45 Scripting and modding GF5

Those abilities would probably be useful in your warrior mod, thinking about it. I'm not sure what you have planned, but if you have an NPC companion that has no ranged attacks, putting abilities on that companion might be a good way to help them keep up. Putting a counter ability can be useful for a companion that is designed to go into the thick of enemies and soak up tons of damage, since they'll run up to melee range, attack, then the enemy will retaliate and suffer one of these status effects. The strike abilities would be somewhat similar, but I think they'd be more useful for aggressive, melee focused companions to help kill enemies faster.

Actually, speaking of combat, did anyone actually try buffing the stats for melee weapons and missile weapons? It would probably help with some of the woes people on this forum face when they use combat related characters. I've actually buffed regular thorn batons quite a bit (Didn't change the projectile ability in gf5objsmisc script, but I increased the level of the thorn baton item itself(it_level in the gf5itemschars script) greatly. Enemies don't get stronger missile attacks, but the PC does. I think I increased the level from something like 5 to 15. You can probably do the same with other batons. Melee weapons... well, everyone kept saying that they're completely dead in GF5, so I buffed them to be not dead. XD I raised "shortsword" based weapons scaling (ab_effect_per_level in the gf5objsmisc script) from 4 to 6. Not much, but it should help them be more viable early game, and most blades don't use "shortsword" scaling mid to late game. Most melee enemies use "shortsword" scaling, so I did keep the stat increases small so enemy melee attacks don't end up too ridiculous. "Broadsword" based weapon scaling got a much bigger buff; since only the PC has access to "Broadsword" weapons (no enemy in the game uses "Broadsword" type attacks), I was more than happy to buff their damage scaling, from 5 to 12. Essentially "Broadsword" based weapons scale up much faster and better. I doubt this will make melee broken, considering melee got nerfed waaaaaaay too hard over the course of the series, and the fact that you still run the risk of charging off to your death, considering that you could hit an enemy that brought a lot of friends to kill you. XD

Also, what I did was make it so that the severely underpowered, weapon focused characters (Guardians, Warriors, Shock Troopers also count) start out with extra combat stats (Parry, Quick Action, Melee Weapons, Missile Weapons) right off the bat. No other class gets to have these extra stats. Because this game has nothing like combat disciplines from Avernum, the only other way I could think of to make weapon oriented characters is to give them a bunch of extra combat stats, and it's really the only thing that IMO prevents these characters from being straight weak. I gave them a bunch, like 5-7 points to each stat (maybe more in some cases; you need a lot of Parry for example to make it work). I did this and everything else above for the sake of making weapon oriented classes more fun to play because they were literally that bad IMO. (Serviles and Infiltrators/Agents don't count, mainly because those characters do have a focus on weapons, but Serviles are considered to be horrendously overpowered by a lot of people I think, simply because they can get everything, from strong creations, decent magic, lots of health, and strong weapons. Infiltrators/Agents use magic to fight their way through, and use melee and missile weapons to support that. They aren't particularly reliant on weapons, and they're considered to be a decent class in GF5.)

alhoon alhoon

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Posted 21 January 2017 - 02:15 AM #46 Scripting and modding GF5

On the contrary, since the game can be won without much combat, I plan to put the abilities on enemies. As for weapons, well missile weapons is what most guardians use I think. Not sure.

When I go back to the Shaper mod though, I may add the option.
"I am not mad, no matter what you're implying." - Litalia

GF5 mod with extra quest chain here!  Discover who you are and set up your base.

"Ohhh, no! No, it's so close! So close!" - Blxz, ambushed by an Unbound

Gameman112358 Gameman112358

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Posted 21 January 2017 - 03:02 AM #47 Scripting and modding GF5

So you can actually win the game using mostly diplomacy (leadership), disarming mines (mechanics), sneaking around, etc? I haven't really seen a particularly impressive implementation of that in most of the Geneforge series; while diplomacy and mechanics do help a lot, most of the games do require quite a bit of fighting to go with it. I guess I enjoy charging off and killing sh*t too much then... XD

If you're going to put those abilities on enemies, probably best then to have said enemies be melee focused. After all, most of the abilities don't really work unless they get into melee range (Strike abilities only work on melee attacks that land on the enemy, Counter abilities only work on enemies that use melee attacks, and both have no effect on ranged attacks). Some enemies in the game already use the Extra Action Points ability, so it wouldn't be hard to replicate. Kinda thought it would be useful for melee focused companions since melee sucks a** most of the time.

All NPC Guardians use Acid Thorns, which is a missile weapon, like you said. Increasing the strength of the individual thorns themselves would buff both the player and enemies that use the thorns. I actually bypass that by simply increasing the level of the item itself (in this case, the Acid Baton), which essentially increases the damage done by missile weapons done by your PC without effecting enemies(It seems that effectiveness scaling for NPCs with a built in missile attack vs the PC using an item like a baton to do it is completely separated; it is possible to adjust the level of items, which increases damage, chance to hit, etc, without increasing the strength of NPC missile weapons. Something to keep in mind if you want to buff the PC but not NPCs or enemies (in this case, missile weapons)). Most NPCs that use missile weapons are pretty obvious about it (their graphic will have them holding a baton), but some aren't as obvious. Guardians use acid thorns, some Warrior NPCs (holding swords) use regular thorns, Thornflingers (holds a baton) use venom thorns, quite a few Serviles use either thorns (regular or acid) or javelins, Bennhold uses acid thorns (didn't expect that given that uses the graphics of a mage; died the first time because of it lol XD), and there's probably more that I missed.

Triumph Triumph

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Posted 21 January 2017 - 08:43 AM #48 Scripting and modding GF5

View PostGameman112358, on 21 January 2017 - 03:02 AM, said:

So you can actually win the game using mostly diplomacy (leadership), disarming mines (mechanics), sneaking around, etc? I haven't really seen a particularly impressive implementation of that in most of the Geneforge series; while diplomacy and mechanics do help a lot, most of the games do require quite a bit of fighting to go with it.

You can definitely beat some (all?) the games without doing ANY fighting. It takes some work, and I think most people go the fighting route, but it is possible. I beat G3, siding with the Shapers, without striking a single blow myself, and I came near to beating it the rebel route except that I'm 99% sure the game glitched out on me and removed a critical element of the endgame (a friendly NPC who was supposed to fight for me). Based on having played through G2 and G4 the regular way, I'm pretty sure one could also finish those games without personally doing any fighting. I've never played G5 besides the demo, but I would be surprised if the same isn't true. The only game where I think some fighting *might* be absolutely necessary to finish is G1, but I'm not at all sure. I should go back to the pacifist experiment again one day...  Anyway, there are definitely some zones you cannot clear if you don't fight, but mechanics / leadership / sneaking past enemies / relying on friendly NPCs to do the dirty work does indeed offer a path to finishing (most / all) Geneforge games.

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alhoon alhoon

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Posted 21 January 2017 - 02:01 PM #49 Scripting and modding GF5

What Triumph has left unsaid, and I agree with Gameman, is that NOT fighting makes the game far more difficult and for most people, less fun. What's the point in playing a Shaping person if you don't shape? I could see one trying it with a servile for RP purposes.
Triumph, what level did you end GF3 without fighting? How could you defeat the Monarch without fighting? Even breaking his baton requires fighting. Did you rely on those 5 serviles that can come with you?
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GF5 mod with extra quest chain here!  Discover who you are and set up your base.

"Ohhh, no! No, it's so close! So close!" - Blxz, ambushed by an Unbound

Gameman112358 Gameman112358

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Posted 21 January 2017 - 02:24 PM #50 Scripting and modding GF5

alhoon, Triumph did admit that there are some zones where fighting is unavoidable, regardless of leadership or mechanics stats. Monarch is one of those fights that a leadership/mechanics/sneaky player cannot avoid. He is right though that there are ways to avoid fighting altogether. Though at the same time, you're right that it isn't terribly fun to simply watch a bunch of NPCs go at it with each other without the PC getting in on the action (and exp). Nor is it fun to disarm a bunch of mines/traps/etc.

As for characters that revolve around this sorta thing, Serviles, Infiltrators, and Agents all fit the bill for that sorta thing, considering their play style revolves around a (mostly) singleton character that uses trickery, mechanics, magic, and the occasional blade and support creation to win battles. They still have to fight, yes, but they don't have to necessarily fight nearly as much as some other characters, and because they have strong magic, it is easier for them to help friendly NPCs via buffs such as Essence Blade, War Blessing, Protection, etc.

Geneforge is definitely not one of those games where you are greatly rewarded for doing essentially a "Pacifist Run"; you lose out on experience for both you and your creations, which means you're screwed the moment anything manages to aggro onto you, simply because you're underleveled and therefore weaker than quite a few mid to late game enemies. At least that's my experience whenever I try to use guile and trickery to win. I usually use leadership and mechanics to help make fights easier/get help/get cool trinkets for myself, but for the most part, my character still plays a main role in the fighting. For Agents and Infiltrators, I actually at one point way way back when I started scripting gave them a bonus to their leadership and mechanics skills. Agents got a little more leadership, while infiltrators got some extra points in mechanics. Isn't there a stealth stat in GF4 and GF5? If there is, I'd add it to both characters too, though I don't think alter_stat will work (You have to put the stealth stat increase on an item for it to work. Not sure, would need testing to confirm). Though I wish I had an idea on what the stealth stat does exactly...

Triumph, that G3 NPC that you're mentioning... I know who you're talking about, and I think it has something to do with the fact that said G3 NPC's script is buggy and does not trigger properly to make that NPC use the correct dialogue with your character. I've actually had that happen to me, though in my case, simply walking by that NPC and advancing further into the zone seems to have fixed the problem, and that NPC works as intended when you do. Not sure if it will work for you, but it's worth a try, I think.

Btw, is it possible to make new crafting recipes? Or is that hardcoded into the game? If it's hardcoded, I already know of a workaround to use. I'm curious because I want to make a crafting recipe for the Shaped Blade. Basically stuff like Shaped Blade + Purifying Elixir = Perfected Blade, which is stronger and gives a certain stat boost like other Perfected items, and then make it so that the Perfected Blade has its own powerful crafting recipes. This is not only to make the Shaped Blade something worth keeping around (They usually lose out to quite a few endgame blades, Guardian Claymore and possibly Puresteel Blade for example), but also give some variety to the weapons. Most gear has powerful crafting recipes, but most weapons do not, and I want to experiment to see if I can change that.

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Posted 21 January 2017 - 03:26 PM #51 Scripting and modding GF5

That is interesting. I don't know of a way, but I believe you when you say you have a work-around. One of the reasons Guardians "miss out" IMO is that they can't craft an artifact weapon.
Gamerman, you have quite many good ideas man. Making a mod doesn't necessarily have to be 10+ quests and 500+ lines of new dialogue. A fast quest that allows one to make an artifact-level weapon from a variety including an artifact-level baton since many go missile, would make an excellent mod.

When I say quest, I don't mean a multi-tiered thing. Just a couple of options to give the puresteel workers puresteel, elixirs and components and get your artifact weapon.
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GF5 mod with extra quest chain here!  Discover who you are and set up your base.

"Ohhh, no! No, it's so close! So close!" - Blxz, ambushed by an Unbound

idonotexist42 idonotexist42

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Posted 21 January 2017 - 04:00 PM #52 Scripting and modding GF5

I found a much easier way to buff melee characters. Go into the scripts (gf5itemschars) and buff the actual existing weapons. You can even go into the objmisc file and create new abilities to assign to the weapons. I replaced many of the existing weapons that were inferior by the time you got them with new cooler ones that actually had neat effects. I mostly took advantage of the existing "effect-touch" abilities and gave them out to various weapons to make them useful. For the burning blade I made a new ability that actually did fire damage that was a melee ability and put the energy dot effect from lightning aura on foes. Each of the elemental blades I made actually do their corresponding damage type. I think the puresteel soul blade got something that did magic damage and put the energy dot on foes. Guardian claymore got stunning, the original stun blade sword got buffed to be like a steel longsword. some melee weapons I replaced with ones that did ranged attacks so they were like an infinite wand sort of. I made one that did the daze ray I remember, called it the "confounding rod"

Pliant Giant Pliant Giant

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Posted 21 January 2017 - 04:06 PM #53 Scripting and modding GF5

View Postalhoon, on 21 January 2017 - 02:01 PM, said:

What Triumph has left unsaid, and I agree with Gameman, is that NOT fighting makes the game far more difficult and for most people, less fun.
Citation please?  On the "less fun" part.  While not fighting obviously isn't going to be everyone's cup of tea, I don't think I've ever seen a discussion of it where "this is simply less fun" was the dominant opinion.
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alhoon alhoon

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Posted 21 January 2017 - 04:15 PM #54 Scripting and modding GF5

Really? That's a surprise for me. I kinda assumed that since there are so many hostiles in the game, and it's a squad-tactics game, most people would take the fighting road.
Do you mean that most people prefer the "not-fighting" paths? I haven't seen anyone that did it except as an experiment to be sincere.
"I am not mad, no matter what you're implying." - Litalia

GF5 mod with extra quest chain here!  Discover who you are and set up your base.

"Ohhh, no! No, it's so close! So close!" - Blxz, ambushed by an Unbound

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Posted 21 January 2017 - 06:23 PM #55 Scripting and modding GF5

I know it's a surprise to you.  You consistently assume that whatever opinion you have, is the obvious opinion and that most people will agree with you.  What you have is your own sensible opinion, but you have somehow morphed that into what "most people" think, while skipping the step of actually finding out what most people think.  Maybe stop doing that.  Or at least stop stating your assumptions as if they are actual facts.
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alhoon alhoon

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Posted 21 January 2017 - 06:34 PM #56 Scripting and modding GF5

OK, no reason to be aggressive. I didn't mean to insult anybody and while I may be wrong, I don't think that I consistently extrapolate my own opinion as the majority opinion or as if my opinion is a fact.
"I am not mad, no matter what you're implying." - Litalia

GF5 mod with extra quest chain here!  Discover who you are and set up your base.

"Ohhh, no! No, it's so close! So close!" - Blxz, ambushed by an Unbound

Lilith Lilith

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Posted 21 January 2017 - 06:55 PM #57 Scripting and modding GF5

If you really want to find out what people think, it's possible to create a poll, you know.

Gameman112358 Gameman112358

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Posted 21 January 2017 - 07:02 PM #58 Scripting and modding GF5

Sheesh, everyone calm down please. No need to get so worked up over it. He was stating his opinion, nothing more. :) Anyways, back on topic...

View Postidonotexist42, on 21 January 2017 - 04:00 PM, said:

I found a much easier way to buff melee characters. Go into the scripts (gf5itemschars) and buff the actual existing weapons.

I think I already did something like that, though less extensive than what you've done. I basically made it so that melee weapons scale better over time as you get more levels of melee weapon stats. ("Shortsword" class weapon scaling went from 4 to 6 (ab_effect_per_level = 4 -> 6;), while "Broadsword" class weapon scaling went from 5 to 12 (ab_effect_per_level = 5 -> 12;). Basically, melee weapons got a significant buff to how much they scale. I have no idea if this makes them overpowered or not; they're a heck of a lot stronger, but you're still going to have to get into melee range, which means that you'll be wasting action points moving in, and you're running the risk of charging into an enemy that brought in a ton of their friends to kill you. XD
I haven't really touched missile weapons too much aside from the regular Thorn Baton, which I increased the level of the item itself instead of changing the thorn attack in the scripts, which would've buffed the enemy attacks as well. Enemy attacks IMO are already strong enough as it is, so instead I increased the it_level in the gf5itemschars, which increases the damage of missile weapons the PC uses, but doesn't do anything to NPC missile attacks. My reasoning for doing this: Enemies have infinite ammo, high level, and generally come in large groups, meaning that their missile attacks are stronger and are in larger numbers compared to you. You don't have infinite ammo, and missile weapons didn't really cut it IMO in their base form.

A lot of your changes sounds pretty cool though. Might actually consider trying them in my experiments. I did find out early on that giving a "melee" based weapon a ranged attack meant that it had infinite ammo. Basically, put a powerful ranged spell on a blade and it will never run out of ammo. Doesn't consume any essence or energy using it either, and it doesn't have any requirements to use it, which meant that characters with terrible magic (Shock Troopers, Warriors, Guardians) could use ridiculously powerful spells for no cost. I was actually considering at one point giving weapon oriented classes unique, infinite ammo wands (using the technique you described) no other character in the game can get that give buffs such as war blessing, protection, etc. when the character uses them, but I found it easier to simply make it so that these characters start out with extra blessing magic stats at the start of the game. Only blessing magic; no mental magic or battle magic. It's magic to boost your character and your creations, nothing else. I seriously think that should've been the case from the start; would've made playing weapon oriented classes a little easier, and it doesn't make sense that weapon oriented characters don't have at least some blessing magic to boost their combat abilities.

alhoon, the workaround I had in mind was simple, but somewhat time consuming. Using some of the techniques that your Shaper mod used (the lab and how it called for materials to build stuff), what I could do if I wanted to make an artifact blade is make it so that if you have the materials needed for an artifact blade and you go to certain NPC smithies, in the dialogue box, you can select an option where they can, for a small fee (maybe 100 coins or something like that), make the blade with the materials you gathered. Basically, script wise, you lose the materials and a little bit of money, and then you're given the artifact blade. Why did I make the cost so low? Well, the smithy isn't paying for any of the materials; you got them on your own. I don't really want to work my a** off and run the risk of death to get these materials and worry about a high cost on top of it all. These swords would be incredibly powerful; their attacks come with a status effect, they give a bunch of combat related stats, and they do as much (if not more) raw damage as a puresteel blade. They can be enchanted, of course, on top of everything.

As for the idea of an artifact baton, I'm actually tempted to make one. Though I would have to think of a way to make up for the fact that batons can't be enchanted (I actually at one point made batons able to accept enchantments, mostly because I wanted to see if it would do anything. It did absolutely nothing, the last time I checked. Thorns were still regular thorns). Actually, what I had in mind for an artifact baton is that it would be similar in terms of the artifact blade creation; you go to a baton breeder (or whatever NPC that is appropriate in this scenario; I don't know if GF5 has any baton breeders lying around) and give them materials for an extremely rare, one of a kind baton. The materials would be similar to most artifact items, and you would have to pay a little bit of money to do it, but these batons, not only give stats, but also imbue a status effect that most batons don't use (curse, weaken, fear would be interesting, charm would be ridiculous, etc.), and they also... *drumroll* Come with infinite ammo! That's right, they never need to reload. Saves me the effort of making custom ammo for them, plus, you already had to work your a** off getting very expensive materials that you could be using for other artifacts, may as well make the baton worth your while. There's probably also some other ideas on how to make these artifact weapons strong that I missed.

alhoon alhoon

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Posted 21 January 2017 - 07:05 PM #59 Scripting and modding GF5

Well, I don't see it as an important issue for me at least, in order to open a poll about it. I made an assumption, in regards to something Gameman said.
It was a line I threw in 50+ posts about scripting. I don't know why all the fuss about that hasty assumption to be sincere.
Now, scripting, I do consider an important issue. I think I'm in the minority about taking such an interest in modding, seeing as there are few people in this thread, but Gamerman and Idontexitst seem to share my enthusiasm.


Back to topic:
Playing as a shaper usually, I travel around with 4-5 creations supported by whatever artifact or item that boosts them I could find. I fight with blessings often. I would say that I rarely am outnumbered.


Quote

alhoon, the workaround I had in mind was simple, but somewhat time consuming. Using some of the techniques that your Shaper mod used (the lab and how it called for materials to build stuff), what I could do if I wanted to make an artifact blade is make it so that if you have the materials needed for an artifact blade and you go to certain NPC smithies, in the dialogue box, you can select an option where they can, for a small fee (maybe 100 coins or something like that), make the blade with the materials you gathered. Basically, script wise, you lose the materials and a little bit of money, and then you're given the artifact blade. Why did I make the cost so low? Well, the smithy isn't paying for any of the materials; you got them on your own. I don't really want to work my a** off and run the risk of death to get these materials and worry about a high cost on top of it all. These swords would be incredibly powerful; their attacks come with a status effect, they give a bunch of combat related stats, and they do as much (if not more) raw damage as a puresteel blade. They can be enchanted, of course, on top of everything.

That's a worthwhile quest IMO. As I said, it doesn't have to be 100 lines of dialogue.
I am glad my scripts helped you hammer this out.


Infinite Ammo Baton:
So, basically, a Baton that can Shape. :)
Spawners can do it. So could batons.

Again, I encourage you to put those nifty ideas in a mod.
"I am not mad, no matter what you're implying." - Litalia

GF5 mod with extra quest chain here!  Discover who you are and set up your base.

"Ohhh, no! No, it's so close! So close!" - Blxz, ambushed by an Unbound

Gameman112358 Gameman112358

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Posted 21 January 2017 - 07:16 PM #60 Scripting and modding GF5

Guys, please don't get worked up over which playstyle is more fun/better... save it for another thread if you guys want to continue that discussion. Whether or not you prefer to fight your way through or use diplomacy/mechanics/stealth to win the day, that's up to you. Do whatever you think is the most fun. I just personally think that it would be more difficult (not less fun) to try and be a guile hero, using NPCs and other tricks to win the day. More difficult because from my PoV:
No killing = way less exp = PC is underleveled = Going to have a bad time when you have no choice but to fight.

alhoon alhoon

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Posted 21 January 2017 - 07:20 PM #61 Scripting and modding GF5

Let's get back to scripting Gameman. Did you see the rest of my post? About the Shaping Baton etc? That way you could find an "ingame" way to make an infinite ammo baton.
"I am not mad, no matter what you're implying." - Litalia

GF5 mod with extra quest chain here!  Discover who you are and set up your base.

"Ohhh, no! No, it's so close! So close!" - Blxz, ambushed by an Unbound

Gameman112358 Gameman112358

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Posted 21 January 2017 - 07:28 PM #62 Scripting and modding GF5

It wouldn't be hard to make an infinite ammo baton in terms of scripting. Just take a melee weapon, replace the icon graphics with baton graphics, give it a thorn attack, done. You've got an infinite ammo thorn baton. I'm just trying to think of a way to bypass the in-universe reasoning that the PC is essentially making a handheld spawner if they make it. XD (Though no one seems to complain if you wander around in Shaper towns with creations like Gazers, Drakons, and Drayks, so... yeah. XD Maybe I'll just use the "war is hell" excuse for this one. XD XD XD)

It probably wouldn't be hard to mod in an artifact baton, with stat boosts, custom attacks, etc. I'm trying to think of NPCs that would be feasibly do such as task. Baton breeders would fit, but I didn't see any in GF5. Smithies are out; they don't work with batons as far as I know. Who then? Any ideas?

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Posted 21 January 2017 - 07:31 PM #63 Scripting and modding GF5

You don't HAVE to tell people you're carrying an illegal baton, do you? ;)

Anyway, I may need your help in the not-so-near future. I would like to put the Shaping Baton in my next mod. While with your instructions I could pull it off, if you've already done it, why do the work twice?


Another way, if you don't want Shaping Batons (I do), is to say the Baton is Shaped in a way that it can grow thorns itself, rapidly.
"I am not mad, no matter what you're implying." - Litalia

GF5 mod with extra quest chain here!  Discover who you are and set up your base.

"Ohhh, no! No, it's so close! So close!" - Blxz, ambushed by an Unbound

Gameman112358 Gameman112358

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Posted 21 January 2017 - 07:37 PM #64 Scripting and modding GF5

True. XD Plus, Shapers don't seem to give a sh*t if you're wandering around their cities with Barred creations like Drakons, Drayks, and Gazers, so... XD

Rapidly growing thorns would work as an in-universe excuse. Batons use the same principle as healing magic to rapidly make thorns inside itself via healing magic principle.. Healing magic is shaping, in a sense. It's shaping new flesh and blood for a person, essentially.

I haven't really done anything regarding the infinite ammo baton, but it wouldn't be hard for me to simply whip up something for you to try out. It would take a little bit of time, but it shouldn't be super hard. :)

Actually, thinking about it, is it possible to get artifacts relatively early in the game? Some people say you can get mid-level artifact items when you get to the Mera-Tev, though I think those individuals did have to do some pretty dangerous maneuvers to do so (which may or may not include trying to sneak around Unbound. XD)

I think, for crafting batons, there should be three stages.
1. Regular thorn baton (the first and weakest one): Same old baton we know.
2. Mid-level artifact baton (Baton + Purifying Elixir = Perfected Baton): Infinite ammo, better overall, gives extra dexterity or missile weapon bonus. Still using regular thorns, though. No status inducing ones yet. Why just the Purifying Elixir and nothing else? Since a baton is essentially a creation, the Purifying Elixir makes the creation much stronger and allows it to rapidly make thorns. Also, consider opportunity cost; one purifying elixir is difficult to come by for most of the game, and making this baton means you're not going to be making another artifact. It should be a little easier to make this compared to others.
3. High-level artifact baton (Perfected Baton + Unmelting Ice/Pure Quicksilver/etc. = ???? Baton): Again, infinite ammo, gets another overall boost in effectiveness, increase in dexterity/missile weapon boost. Also, it gives you armor now, much like regular armor. Now though, depending on what you put on it, it gains an attribute depending on what you put on it. Pure Quicksilver? You get 3-4 extra action points + more dexterity. Unmelting ice? Slowing effect on a single enemy + AoE Ice damage*. Stuff like that.

(*There are impact sfxs that do damage depending on what you put in; refer to post #14 in this thread: http://spiderwebforu...-modding-items/)

EDIT: Okay, I made the infinite ammo thorn baton and I'm testing it now. The item graphic itself looks weird, but it is working for the most part. No need for reload, no ammo needed. It's pretty much a beefed up regular thorn baton that has extra stats and gives armor.

EDIT 2: I actually found an easier way to make thorn batons have infinite ammo. In gf5itemschars script, set the it_charges to -1 (it_charges = -1). It make the baton have infinite ammo. I think it works for anything that has an "ammo" counter, like wands and stuff like that. Good to know I found something new. :)

idonotexist42 idonotexist42

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Posted 21 January 2017 - 09:18 PM #65 Scripting and modding GF5

For my infinite ammo ranged weapon I avoided anything that did super high damage, went for those monster only abilities that do mild damage plus a status effect, like a daze ray. that way they scaled with ...melee weapons I guess? damage and power wise but still wouldn't get over the top with the damage and make warriors/guardians better casters than shapers and agents.

I believe I also fiddled with how swords scale both in the abilities scripts and the item scripts much the same way you did. Thorns batons too, though they didn't need as much tweaking. I also beefed up the buffs on some of the armor that helped melee warriors to give them an extra boost. I think for Warriors/Guardians their power scales with gear more than with caster classes who scale primarily with skill points and aren't held back by trying to get better swords. Of course the trade off is that they're squishy as hell.

I might go in and add innate bonus stats to certain classes like someone had suggested.

alhoon alhoon

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Posted 21 January 2017 - 10:04 PM #66 Scripting and modding GF5

About walking around with barred creations: I completely agree. Going to a meeting with Taygen with a couple drakons in tow?! OK, how about going to Ghaldring with a couple of Drakons in tow?

I have decided already that in the Gazerforge mod, if you have Gazers in the party it will be addressed. You may lose your gazer or you'll have to earn permission having one.

About the infinite baton: You didn't have to make it for me. As I said, I could have pulled it off. The point was to avoid doing the work twice, not delegate it.
In any case, thanks. I'll probably go with the -1 to charges used one.
"I am not mad, no matter what you're implying." - Litalia

GF5 mod with extra quest chain here!  Discover who you are and set up your base.

"Ohhh, no! No, it's so close! So close!" - Blxz, ambushed by an Unbound

Bearfax62 Bearfax62

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Posted 21 January 2017 - 10:21 PM #67 Scripting and modding GF5

This kind of stuff definitely fascinates me, even if I will almost certainly never be able to do it myself. :p

I've definitely brainstormed a lot of potential mods for if I ever wanted to get into coding. Stuff like rebalancing the games in various ways, adding new classes (Perhaps an outsider set of classes for 5? I've always liked the generic Mage and Soldier sprites, those could be made into Sorceress and Warrior alts.) and, albeit a very difficult idea that could very well be impossible, "what if" mods for the sequels that follow up on alternate endings from the previous games (Post Awakened/Barzite G3, anyone?). I hope that these games can attain an active modding community, the potential is definitely there; and as we've seen with your excellent mod, alhoon, enough quality to go around!

alhoon alhoon

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Posted 21 January 2017 - 10:44 PM #68 Scripting and modding GF5

Thank you for the kind words. Never say you're not be able to do it yourself. You wouldn't know unless you try and you would get better with experience.

Alternative "what if" mods are possible, but it would take dedication, vision and a lot of time.
Basically you would have to rewrite the script and dialogue for a whole game and design the areas. Look how long it takes me for the warrior mod and I haven't even finished it. For someone that doesn't work on the mods full-time, it would take like a year to make even a small mod, with 10-12 areas. 300-500 hours of work* is my estimation of what would be needed for a good 10-12 area mod. That's 6-10 hours of work per week for a year, without pay.
Yes you could shorten the time by just making mostly grass areas filled with monsters and little-to-no quests and dialogue. But that's not what you asked about.

It is a nice hobby though. So if you like grandiose plans, by all means try.


*After you've a solid grasp on scripting and area editing.
"I am not mad, no matter what you're implying." - Litalia

GF5 mod with extra quest chain here!  Discover who you are and set up your base.

"Ohhh, no! No, it's so close! So close!" - Blxz, ambushed by an Unbound

Bearfax62 Bearfax62

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Posted 21 January 2017 - 11:03 PM #69 Scripting and modding GF5

Thank you too! I've been looking into game design for a long time, perhaps I may try my hands at some smaller mods as a way to get started after I learn how to code.

The whole alternate sequel idea is a pipe dream of the highest degree, but one I may at least try.

And of course I'll create smaller mods first. Those first two ideas seem very well possible, but I'm wondering; has anyone actually tried to add new classes into the game? Any major limitations, or is it possible to make whatever combination of stats you want?

alhoon alhoon

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Posted 21 January 2017 - 11:40 PM #70 Scripting and modding GF5

Personally, I haven't tried to add new classes. A mage class would basically be like a sorceress without shaping. A fighter class would basically be like a Guardian without Shaping.
It would definitely make the game harder, and IMO you would need to add a couple of support NPCs, at least until the player reaches Perikalia and can buy Battle Betas and artillae.
"I am not mad, no matter what you're implying." - Litalia

GF5 mod with extra quest chain here!  Discover who you are and set up your base.

"Ohhh, no! No, it's so close! So close!" - Blxz, ambushed by an Unbound





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