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U.S. Election Day, 2016


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Poll: U.S. Presidential Election, 2016 (38 member(s) have cast votes)

Did you vote in the 2016 United States presidential election?

  1. Yes (23 votes [60.53%])

    Percentage of vote: 60.53%

  2. No (not an American citizen) (9 votes [23.68%])

    Percentage of vote: 23.68%

  3. No (citizen, but not eligible) (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  4. No (abstained) (3 votes [7.89%])

    Percentage of vote: 7.89%

  5. No (other) (3 votes [7.89%])

    Percentage of vote: 7.89%

Whom did you vote for, or would have voted for, in the 2016 United States presidential election?

  1. Hillary Clinton (Democratic) (22 votes [57.89%])

    Percentage of vote: 57.89%

  2. Donald Trump (Republican) (5 votes [13.16%])

    Percentage of vote: 13.16%

  3. Gary Johnson (Libertarian) (1 votes [2.63%])

    Percentage of vote: 2.63%

  4. Jill Stein (Green) (2 votes [5.26%])

    Percentage of vote: 5.26%

  5. Other (3 votes [7.89%])

    Percentage of vote: 7.89%

  6. Nobody (2 votes [5.26%])

    Percentage of vote: 5.26%

  7. Don't know (3 votes [7.89%])

    Percentage of vote: 7.89%

What is your political affiliation in the U.S., or what would be your affiliation?

  1. Democratic Party (13 votes [34.21%])

    Percentage of vote: 34.21%

  2. Republican Party (3 votes [7.89%])

    Percentage of vote: 7.89%

  3. Independent / Nonpartisan / Unaffiliated (13 votes [34.21%])

    Percentage of vote: 34.21%

  4. Libertarian Party (1 votes [2.63%])

    Percentage of vote: 2.63%

  5. Green Party (1 votes [2.63%])

    Percentage of vote: 2.63%

  6. Other (3 votes [7.89%])

    Percentage of vote: 7.89%

  7. Don't know (4 votes [10.53%])

    Percentage of vote: 10.53%

Which of the following most closely matches your opinion of the Democratic candidate Hillary Clinton?

  1. Very Positive (2 votes [5.26%])

    Percentage of vote: 5.26%

  2. Somewhat Positive (7 votes [18.42%])

    Percentage of vote: 18.42%

  3. Neutral (7 votes [18.42%])

    Percentage of vote: 18.42%

  4. Somewhat Negative (9 votes [23.68%])

    Percentage of vote: 23.68%

  5. Very Negative (13 votes [34.21%])

    Percentage of vote: 34.21%

  6. Don't know (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

Which of the following most closely matches your opinion of the Republican candidate Donald Trump?

  1. Very Positive (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  2. Somewhat Positive (2 votes [5.26%])

    Percentage of vote: 5.26%

  3. Neutral (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  4. Somewhat Negative (7 votes [18.42%])

    Percentage of vote: 18.42%

  5. Very Negative (29 votes [76.32%])

    Percentage of vote: 76.32%

  6. Don't know (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

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The Almighty Doer of Stuff The Almighty Doer of Stuff

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Posted 17 December 2016 - 03:18 PM #141 U.S. Election Day, 2016

There is a rising demand from the Electors (70 of them last I heard) to see the evidence the CIA, FBI, and NSA have that Trump's victory was caused by interference from the Russian government, even Vladimir Putin himself, before they vote, and as I understand it there is even a protocol for delaying the vote while unfolding situations are considered. There are suggestions in the media that depending on the circumstances, whether it's actual complicity or just trying to hide it after the fact, Mr. Trump could be at risk of a charge of treason.
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Edgwyn Edgwyn

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Posted 19 December 2016 - 01:59 PM #142 U.S. Election Day, 2016

Well, so far, there has been no drama.  The votes are going on as scheduled and the electors pledged toward Trump are voting for him.  According to the NYT at 4:45 PM, the only defections have been four electors pledged to Clinton voting for someone else.  The media has certainly not covered itself with glory this election cycle and today is just continuing that theme.  Proving collusion between Putin and Trump would be hard if such collusion even existed.  Right now, collusion is up there with Obama was born in Kenya.

Tevildo Tevildo

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Posted 20 December 2016 - 12:19 PM #143 U.S. Election Day, 2016

So, it didn't work.

Lately I've been hearing stuff about how the Supreme Court could throw out Trump's Presidency. If this is legally possible though, I think it doesn't matter; the Republicans would probably ignore SCOTUS, because they could get away with it and they know it.

Also, anyone notice how Trump has his own private security force in addition to the Secret Service?

I do not think we have rule of law on a federal level any more. On a local and state level, in some places, but not federal.

Good luck and best wishes to everyone here. Please try to keep your anger, if nothing else. I'm forcing myself every day to keep mine. :(

Goldengirl Goldengirl

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Posted 20 December 2016 - 04:36 PM #144 U.S. Election Day, 2016

From an electoral standpoint, trying to remove Trump's mandate to be president seems moot. From a political standpoint, strategies of how to resist Trump's policies and goals is far more productive.

re: rule of law. Paul Krugman recentlycompared Trump's presidency to the fall of the Roman Republic. Krugman's analysis seems pretty non-specific, here, and if anything just makes me think of how executive power has been ballooning in size historically since the onset of the Cold War, which is what uniquely gives presidents the ability to be more influential than they have been previously. Obama used them to pass policy through an obstructionist Congress, and Trump may use them for the same purpose if he is unable to effectively garner support among all parts of the GOP.
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Karan S'jet Karan S'jet

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Posted 20 December 2016 - 05:55 PM #145 U.S. Election Day, 2016

The fall of the Roman Republic was preceded by generations of wars, civil wars, and political purges. The slave population grew to drown out almost all other economic activity. Caesar, growing up, saw the prosciptions of Sulla and the dismantling of several centuries of Roman legal and civic development. His entire generation did. Roman culture more or less collapsed under the weight of its conquests, and dramatically, and for a long time. It is perennially tempting to compare any bad political thing that happens to the fall of the Roman Republic. It is perennially a poor comparison. Caesar, though interesting and unique in his own right, was not the avatar of tyranny. He was not even the first person to successfuly declare themselves dictator for life. And, honestly, his rule was probably the most reasonable, most successfully progressive, most humanitarian thing to happen to Rome since the fall of Carthage, so pointing to the events of Caesar's life as an example of a bad thing is maybe not even a good point to try to make in the first place.
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Pliant Giant Pliant Giant

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Posted 20 December 2016 - 06:02 PM #146 U.S. Election Day, 2016

It's Krugman.  :rolleyes:
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Goldengirl Goldengirl

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Posted 20 December 2016 - 06:08 PM #147 U.S. Election Day, 2016

As I said, Krugman had some very non-specific analysis.

My own non-specific analysis, inspired by Krugman's analysis of "republican facades,' is that the power of the presidency has expanded dramatically to the point where it has overgrown the rule of law, already. By and large, Congress has not worked to contravene this.
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Kelandon Kelandon

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Posted 20 December 2016 - 06:16 PM #148 U.S. Election Day, 2016

View PostThe Flower of Susquehanna, on 20 December 2016 - 05:55 PM, said:

Caesar, growing up, saw the prosciptions of Sulla and the dismantling of several centuries of Roman legal and civic development. His entire generation did. Roman culture more or less collapsed under the weight of its conquests, and dramatically, and for a long time. It is perennially tempting to compare any bad political thing that happens to the fall of the Roman Republic. It is perennially a poor comparison. Caesar, though interesting and unique in his own right, was not the avatar of tyranny. He was not even the first person to successfuly declare themselves dictator for life. And, honestly, his rule was probably the most reasonable, most successfully progressive, most humanitarian thing to happen to Rome since the fall of Carthage, so pointing to the events of Caesar's life as an example of a bad thing is maybe not even a good point to try to make in the first place.
To be clear, Krugman is pointing to Augustus, not Julius Caesar, as the leader who ended the Republic. (This is fairly standard in classical scholarship; Rome transitioned from the Republic to the Principate at this time.) Many similar points could be made about Augustus, but we may as well get the person right.
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Edgwyn Edgwyn

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Posted 20 December 2016 - 06:23 PM #149 U.S. Election Day, 2016

In the last few months, Paul Krugman seemed to be trying to thrown his objectivity out of the window.  While he was never my favorite economist, I used to respect him for his accomplishments in that realm.  As he has dipped farther and farther into politics, my respect for him has dropped.

The ballooning of the powers of the executive branch precedes the cold war.  FDR dramatically increased the power of the executive branch and attempted to (and in several ways succeeded in) suborning the Supreme Court to the executive branch.  While the Supreme Court has in many ways recovered, the legislative branch has not.  Policies are set by the executive branch agencies, not by congress.  In my opinion, this is a very bad thing, but somewhere between few and none of the Senators and Representatives of either party seem to have any interest in actually doing their job.  President Obama certainly did his best to make this situation worse and President Trump is likely to continue that trend.

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Posted 20 December 2016 - 07:07 PM #150 U.S. Election Day, 2016

@Edgwyn

At this point, if you can look at Trump and his cabinet in all their cumulative awfulness and just say that they continue a bad trend, you are in denial far beyond anything I can help with.

@Goldengirl

Agreed. I want to say I fault Pres. Obama in part for failing to curtail this, but it goes waaaay back and a lot of people share responsibility. (Including people like me, for failing to make enough noise about it.)

But, I think that a Trump administration is a qualitative change, not just a quantitative one. Trump is a guy who doesn't even pay lip service to rule of law, and his cabinet will consist mostly of people who make the Bush Administration's worst look like Isaac Asimov protagonists. Trump's only detailed policy item during his campaign was ethnic cleansing. Various forms of bigotry are the only positions he's been consistent on.

If the worst thing he does is stuff the political system with billionaires and make us all peons, I will be astonished.

Randomizer Randomizer

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Posted 20 December 2016 - 07:18 PM #151 U.S. Election Day, 2016

Trump will find that the Art of the Deal doesn't work in Washington politics.  You can't threaten bankruptcy to get a better deal and Congress still needs to vote money to fund stuff.  He's going to have a very short honeymoon with Congress before they try to force him to do things their way.  I doubt he'll make it to the 100 day mark.

While his cabinet can stop agencies from spending money on stuff they don't like such as researching global warming.  He will find that he can't always get his way. I waiting for the day he calls Obama to complain about the Republican Congress and gets told now you know what I had to deal with for eight years.
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Posted 20 December 2016 - 07:23 PM #152 U.S. Election Day, 2016

Tevildo, that isn't what Edgwyn said at all.  He was talking specifically about the ballooning of executive branch powers -- he didn't say anything about cabinets, policy positions, or anything else related to a holistic judgment of Trump versus his predecessors.  I would urge you to be a little more careful before you pull out flame-bait like that line about being in denial.
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