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Party opinions (Editor Re-spec)


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TindalosKeeper TindalosKeeper

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Posted 11 August 2016 - 11:21 AM #1 Party opinions (Editor Re-spec)

So, with several suggestions, I tried to re-spec my party, using the Character Editor... And... In my opinion, it doesn't look that bad!

I have 63 points to allocate on level 30 (65 on level 35), and 16 traits in total!

So, here you go! I wanna see your opinions! (Of course, I tried to maximize those skills that are benefitting me, for my ranger, it's almost impossible to give her something worthwhile since I have to spend useless points in other skills that she won't use...)

Dual-Wield Warrior (Perfectly can go for Shield usage, Owns 1 Cave-Lore and 1 First Aid from quests, bought 2 Tool Use from Trainer, Drath's Knowledge is obviously quest-gotten, changed skills to be able to max Hardiness and Parry "legally")

http://imgur.com/a/81rYU

Ranger (2 Tool Use from Trainer... Sadly, she doesn't have some form of defensive skills in her skill tree, so she has to go for the Evasion approach :/, but the survival traits apply to her nicely!)

http://imgur.com/a/clMwR

Priest (2 Tool Use from Trainer... Unchanged, except for Traits)

http://imgur.com/a/LAfbT

Mage (2 Tool Use from Trainer... Unchanged, except for Traits)

http://imgur.com/a/wz5Ov

Please keep in mind that I'm in no way, trying to increase my skills far beyond what you can get! 63 (or 65 for level 35) skill points and 16 traits in total, you can do the math! :)

This is also on Torment.

Thanks for reading! :)

Earth Empires Earth Empires

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Posted 12 August 2016 - 08:11 AM #2 Party opinions (Editor Re-spec)

casters need more endurance.

party order is priest 1st then fighters and mage?

wisdom crystals and for example Elderaan tower give extra xp (although getting from lvl 35 to 40 simply by Elderaan tower will take very long time).

also 24 lvls in priest/mage skill is bit waste since spells need only 16 lvls.

TindalosKeeper TindalosKeeper

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Posted 12 August 2016 - 08:46 AM #3 Party opinions (Editor Re-spec)

More Endurance? The guys have chugged the 5 levels of Endurance I could give them, and I gave them the three health traits.

A good health amount in particular? Like 350?

Pliant Giant Pliant Giant

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Posted 12 August 2016 - 08:49 AM #4 Party opinions (Editor Re-spec)

They don't need more Endurance.  What they could use, however, is 10+2 levels of Hardiness.  The weapon skills you need for that can also be used to help you qualify for Adrenaline Rush, which is more than worth it for spellcasters.
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Lilith Lilith

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Posted 12 August 2016 - 05:24 PM #5 Party opinions (Editor Re-spec)

Yeah, one thing that bears mentioning is that even characters who will never use melee weapons can benefit from getting 10 points in Melee Weapons or Pole Weapons just for access to battle disciplines and Hardiness (and maybe Parry). Hardiness is that good.

TindalosKeeper TindalosKeeper

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Posted 13 August 2016 - 12:52 AM #6 Party opinions (Editor Re-spec)

Well, friends. With everything I changed, I managed to get to the surface.

But I'm now stuck with Hawthorne "Speed" thingy... Yeah, I have resistances, but Empire Dervishes are too "spongey"...

How can you get past these human sponges? Even by trying to as fast as I could, they will appear, anyways. With the other spawning guys as well :/

They say you have to kill them quickly, but... In Torment? Really? :|

Edit: Now that I'm thinking about it... I have a mage with a teleportation spell, and invulnerability elixirs... If that mage can go and do the run around, while she lets the party die midway... Is it a good alternative? Or I have to do the fighting, yes or yes?

Unbound Servile Unbound Servile

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Posted 13 August 2016 - 03:00 AM #7 Party opinions (Editor Re-spec)

From my experience on Torment, the default party setting (warrior, archer, priest, mage) can be a rough ride. Your dual-wield warrior is good, his build is pretty close to what I did.
I would give your priest some archery skills and equip him with a bow.
I would also replace your archer with a second mage, two mages AoEing down enemies will be your primal source of damage.
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Lilith Lilith

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Posted 13 August 2016 - 07:15 AM #8 Party opinions (Editor Re-spec)

It's a good idea to avoid fighting as much as possible: if you try to kill every single enemy you definitely will get overwhelmed. That can be easier said than done, of course. Letting some characters stay back and get killed to create an opening for the others might potentially be a viable strategy as long as you have a way to revive them afterwards, but it's a last resort. Don't ignore effects like knockback, immobility and daze that can create openings for your allies to safely move past.

Randomizer Randomizer

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Posted 13 August 2016 - 09:56 AM #9 Party opinions (Editor Re-spec)

Also summoned monsters make disposable roadblocks to tie up opponents while you move away.  

You get none or very little experience for fighting the never ending swarm of fighters.  So moving forward is your best option.  If you are having trouble, then don't even stop to loot.
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TindalosKeeper TindalosKeeper

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Posted 13 August 2016 - 09:42 PM #10 Party opinions (Editor Re-spec)

I DID IT!!!

My puny party...

Vanquished Hawthorne with one hit! I was pretty impressed that he went down in a single hit, instead of taking some time to kill... Indeed the old Emperor was frail...

I had to use Speed Potions while saving around on docile sites, I also used my Arcane Summons to block out those hallways where they can't pass... With great effect! Since the NPC's behave like "players", they can't "click" the tiles to chase after me, so they stayed until the summon dissapears.

I ignored Garzahd, haha! I don't care about him, I'm here for Hawthorne! (Not sure if I should have killed him for special equipment or something :/ )

In the final fight, what I had to do was to chug down 2 Invulnerabilty Potions for each member during the full fight, and Speed Elixirs, to keep myself healed and to cast Divine Retribution to slow down those pesky Golems, as well as damaging them enough for Hawthorne to heal them... For some reason, attacking one of them will drain a little, but when attacking all golems, it's like he uses 4 "chunks" of his shield to heal them all... Bad move...

I really had no idea that the golems would use Cold Novas, or something like that to hurt my fighters, but that wasn't a problem, my invulnerability potions kept me safe... And thanks to the Ward of Blades, I kept my good Ranger evading some attacks around...

Then, the golems decided they should beat the crap out of me, which... was... Pretty weak, lol! I was more afraid of the Novas than that!

I think Hawthorne then decided to use magic again for the Golems, and that... that was the moment... The golems could do Novas again, but the shields were gone now (I, actually don't remember if the golems did more magic or just more fists, I was reading the texts, haha!), and I did just one Divine Retribution to see how many hits he'd take... Holy crap...

230+ Damage... One hit KO!

I was glad that his minions dissapear after that, but some remained, trying to kill me, I took Hawthorne's stuff, not caring about his treasury... That was enough Avernum for today, haha!

I stepped into the portal, and... VICTORY! :D

I could add screenies, but I'm not sure if that might spoil it... I'm so happy...

And I did it on Torment!

*sigh*... I kind of feel ashamed that I had to "re-spec" 1 of my warriors, so he could have the Hardiness I never gave him...

What do you think? Do you think by doing that, I cheated?

I did it only to "re-spec", I am aware that I have 63 skill points in total + 16 Traits (or 65 points at level 35), so I never used more than I should...

Thank you so much! I now have the achievement on Steam! :)

Now, I should defeat Grah-Hoth... I'm not sure how tough this guy can be... :(

Lilith Lilith

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Posted 13 August 2016 - 10:26 PM #11 Party opinions (Editor Re-spec)

View PostTindalosKeeper, on 13 August 2016 - 09:42 PM, said:

*sigh*... I kind of feel ashamed that I had to "re-spec" 1 of my warriors, so he could have the Hardiness I never gave him...

What do you think? Do you think by doing that, I cheated?

Well, think of it this way: it isn't really any more or less cheating than if after asking for advice on the forum you'd started over with a new build in a second playthrough. You already know you'd have been able to get through the earlier parts of the game since they're the same as they were before, so the only difference is the amount of time it took you to do it.

TindalosKeeper TindalosKeeper

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Posted 13 August 2016 - 10:54 PM #12 Party opinions (Editor Re-spec)

View PostLilith, on 13 August 2016 - 10:26 PM, said:

Well, think of it this way: it isn't really any more or less cheating than if after asking for advice on the forum you'd started over with a new build in a second playthrough. You already know you'd have been able to get through the earlier parts of the game since they're the same as they were before, so the only difference is the amount of time it took you to do it.

So... I guess my victory is not as good as the others, maybe since they didn't respec, but it's a pretty simple build... Raising resistances are necessary if you are ever going to get hit anyways, absorbing that damage instead of getting overwhelmed by it is very common.

I barely remember what I have to do, I never killed Hawthorne in Avernum 1, since I was a dumb kid back then, hehe. But I feel like I'm now much better than before! :)

Also, I was wondering... If I killed the Emperor... Can I kill Grah-Hoth? Or he is way more difficult?

Randomizer Randomizer

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Posted 13 August 2016 - 11:54 PM #13 Party opinions (Editor Re-spec)

Grah-Hoth isn't more difficult, he's just a different approach.  You don't have minions chasing you through the halls so you have time to kill them and prepare for the final fight.  There's even some exploits that can make the fight easier.

As Lilith said, respec a character is just a fast way of replaying the game now that you know better what you need. Playing on torment requires doing certain things to keep alive that you don't need to do on =normal difficulty.
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TindalosKeeper TindalosKeeper

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Posted 14 August 2016 - 12:42 AM #14 Party opinions (Editor Re-spec)

Given the fact that there's an hidden penalty in your resistances, then I guess the best approach to eliminate that penalty, is to raise those values higher.

Go for damage, yeah! (Damage skills and traits), but focusing more on the defensive areas (Hardiness, Resistances, Perfect Health, etc.)

It's really not so difficult to figure that out! Anybody who knows about that penalty, would think about it! :)

Ummm... Did I do good? I mean... Am I ready for other Avernum games with this in mind?

Lilith Lilith

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Posted 14 August 2016 - 12:50 AM #15 Party opinions (Editor Re-spec)

It's not a hidden penalty to resistances as such; that was misinformation that ended up getting spread around. On Torment all damage you take is simply multiplied. It can look like a penalty to resistances because of a glitch in the display of the "damage blocked" number on higher difficulties, but that's not how it actually works under the hood.

Anyway, if you didn't find your playthrough unenjoyably difficult overall, you'll probably do okay with Avernum 2: Crystal Souls as well. A few skills have been tweaked (dual-wielding is slightly weaker, but it's still the best melee option so it mostly just makes magic look better in comparison) but it basically works the same way as Avernum: Escape from the Pit.

Foumantoo Foumantoo

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Posted 13 February 2017 - 09:27 PM #16 Party opinions (Editor Re-spec)

View PostDeleterious Alleles!!!, on 12 August 2016 - 08:49 AM, said:

They don't need more Endurance.  What they could use, however, is 10+2 levels of Hardiness.  The weapon skills you need for that can also be used to help you qualify for Adrenaline Rush, which is more than worth it for spellcasters.
When you say 10+2 what do you mean?

Randomizer Randomizer

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Posted 13 February 2017 - 09:47 PM #17 Party opinions (Editor Re-spec)

10 levels from skill points and then buy 2 levels from a trainer.

Most games require you to use skill points first and then the trainer to get the maximum. Otherwise if you use the trainer you can't reach 12.
"I don't know how we can ever repay you!" - Rescued damsel in distress
"Oh, I'm sure we can think of something .... How much gold do you have?" - "Hero"

"We're all screwed if Cthulhu shows up. Try to enjoy life in the meantime." - Adam Rawnsley




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