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alhoon

GF5 mod with EXTRA quest chain! More GF5 content!

70 posts in this topic

After a lot of work, I can finally present to all you Geneforge fans a new modification for GF5.

 

 

The mod expands the content of GF5 without altering existing quests\endings\content by adding a new, large, quest chain for Shapers \ Lifecrafters (only for those). It adds choices, it doesn't remove any existing ones. The content is combat-light... unless you decide otherwise.

The only assumption this mod makes aside of the game is...the identity of the amnesiac protagonist, that he discovers bit by bit.

As such the quest chain can be completely ignored without any effect on GF5 game. Or... you can follow it, discover clues of who you are, choose to ignore or believe them, set up a research laboratory like so many NPCs have, discover amazing (but not game-breaking) powers and perhaps settle some old scores with past enemies.

To be clear, the protagonist doesn't discover any concrete proof to confirm the theory on his identity. You even have the choice to reject the conclusion at the end of the identity quest as false. But if you do, you won't get the idea to build up the laboratory.

 

I believe the mod increases the replay-value of GF5, since not only it adds exiting features and quests in certain locations, but you'll keep an eye open for the now much-coveted research notes in areas not affected by the mod.

 

At the end of the quest chain you manage to do something most people considered impossible. Both people in the game and gamers that play the game alike. ;)

 

You can find the mod (V1.1) here:

 

http://gamefront.onl.../GF5Origins.rar

 

 

Installation instructions

 

 

To install the mod, put all the contents of this folder (GF5Origins) to the folder of the script files of GF5.

Usually it is Geneforge 5\Geneforge 5 Files\Scripts

 

First BACKUP the original script files!

 

Then overwrite the txt files of the "Scripts" folder with the ones from the GF5Origins.

You should be prompted that you will replace existing files.

Do so. (you have made the backup I suggested, haven't you?)

 

To verify that the mod works as intended, visit Councilor Rawal's library in Isenwood Spire and check

his book. If there's mention of "Kratoa-Kel" Fort, then the mod has been installed correctly.

 

 

 

Clarifications

 

 

- The mod affects ONLY Shaper or Lifecrafter characters.

All other character types (Sorceress, Warrior, Agent, etc) won't be able to start the quest.

If you want to experience the content of this mod, you should choose one of these two types.

(In the future, the mod may be expanded for other classes).

 

- To start the quest chain, visit Councilor Rawal's library in Isenwood Spire and check his book.

 

- You can start the quest whenever you want, by reading that book. Whether you're level 5 or level 40 you could visit the library and read this book to start the quest.

 

- Certain quests require skill checks to complete. Leadership is important.

 

- In order to set up a base, you need to finish your identity quest first, discover who you probably are.

 

- If you set up a laboratory, the -only- way you can go to the research screen and decide what to do research on, is to have at least one patch of research notes in your inventory.

 

- Your research is based on the "Research potential". The greater your research potential, the more options you have on what to do research on.

 

- Your Research potential is (mainly) increased with research notes that you study in your laboratory.

 

- Aside of the Research notes you find in your travels, there are places you can buy them.

 

- There are NO quest records! You won't see the progress of this chain of quests in your "current quests".

 

Perhaps you should use the "Record" button in the dialogue box.

This button (resembles a book, at the lower, left corner of the dialogue box) saves the dialogue in your journal.

 

 

 

 

EDIT: I'm working on a new mod for Warriors and Guardians. You take command of a Rebel outpost. See post 19 for more details.

 

 

About my motives: Why I decided to spend that much time on a mod.

 

Aside of the expected motives to do this, namely: I love modding stuff, the reasons I went on this admitedly difficult task include:

- The desire for more GF5 content. I have been looking for GF3-5 mods that add quests, that add stories but I couldn't find any (I found some very good ones, but they're not story-mods).

So... I made one.

 

- The "proof of concept". Now people know that despite limitations, you can do amazing things story-wise with the GF scripts.

I really, really hope that people will now look at GF modding with a different eye. That they will say "since alhoon did it, so can I. I'll put my own stories there" and thus that there will be content in the future for this amazing game that I can enjoy as player.

 

There are people here that are far better with scripting than I am. I practically drool thinking what they can accomplish if they put their mind on it.

We already have an amazing mod that improves the graphic and UI of GF1.

 

Why not get a mod that allows through research and quests someone to make... Poddlings? Or Those different Fyora types? Or Shredbugs?

I can't script those. Others can. Others HAVE done so.

 

Please, please fellow GForge players ... start modding.

 

 

Changes from V1.0

 

 

- Corrected some spelling mistakes

- Research on creation types now increase all the creations of a tier.

The outdated Version 1.0 is here: http://gamefront.onl.../GF5Origins.rar

 

 

Juan Carlo, Sudanna and zombfitch like this

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Looking at the scripts, I'm impressed. This is a creative idea, especially the way research is handled, and the bits with late-game relevance, and it looks well implemented and well written.

 

Two constructive comments:

- I don't love the random element in the research on creations. Given that it's impossible to effectively concentrate in multiple shaping paths anyway, this will inevitably just cause reloads.

- Kratoa-Kel is spelled with a hyphen, not a space.

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First, thank you for the interest and the comments. As well as the correction. V1.1 Will have that corrected.

 

Second, about the research:

 

- The most important reason is game balance. There are over 30 research notes and you could buy more. Focus on Vlish for long enough and you'll end up with Vlish that are better than Wingbolts.

 

- I could of course just... increase the cost for focused creations. However the protagonist in my opinion (and is reflected in the mod) works on notes from here and there. Some notes about Drayks. A nice idea about Vlish. The problems someone stumbled when trying to make Fyoras.

He doesn't have a full Shaper Library or laboratory. He's mostly using his genious to back-engineer from and improve on other people's work.*

 

- Thematically, based on the identity of the protagonist, not my ideas, stuff we know from the 1st chapter of the game (heavily changed, powerful, re-awakens lost powers) I felt that he should be good in all low tier creations. Cheap research is the way to do it IMO.

 

- Save-scumming is of course an option and I don't mind that. People that want to reload for a better result are free to do so. I don't frown on that... I'm a compulsive-loader myself ;) .

 

 

 

If I may spoil future plans for you (about other character types, not Shaper/Lifecrafter),

 

if you take over the Foundry you will get a proper research facility (that would be a ##### to defend). There, you can go crazy with research. Do it properly. Even GET lifecrafters working for you if I can manage it.

Why not for Shaper/Lifecrafter? Cause an agent/infiltrator benefits LESS from creations than a Shaper/Lifecrafter. As such, an agent\infiltrator that can focus 1/4th of the game on Shaping will just get Gazer +2. Which shows the huge importance of cannisters BTW, since you could press a button and have the same effect.

 

 

 

 

EDIT:

* What could be done on V1.2 is simply to have side-quests where the Drayk-mad \ Vlish-mad \ Cryoras-are-underestimated-mad protagonist simply looks for and tracks the right research.

- Taygen is reportedly Brilliant... raiding his place could help our Drayks-better-than-Drakons protagonist.

- What more can be found in Rawal's repository? Probably what the protagonist needs to make terror Vlish that are, indeed, terrific.

- Benhold is hitting Shapers. Did he steal that valuable report about Uber-Fyoras?

 

That kind of thing.

But... to be frank, I prefer to work on the Agent\Infiltrator Origins (V2)

Sudanna and Juan Carlo like this

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- The most important reason is game balance. There are over 30 research notes and you could buy more. Focus on Vlish for long enough and you'll end up with Vlish that are better than Wingbolts.

I'm not actually sure this is true. And if it is... I mean, if you spend the entire game focusing on Vlish, why can't they eventually be better than Wingbolts?

 

Because the research option isn't available early in the game, and even if it were, you don't have all 30 research notes right away, it takes time to collect/buy them... any bonus you gain this way has a trade-off: you lose time that you could be building up the levels of your creations through experience. That is not negligible. I think that by itself means the mega-vlish won't beat wingbolts.

 

I like your idea about being good in all low-tier creations. Why not just have the research option improve all low-tier creations, then? This would encourage creation of different creation types (something the series has been sorely lacking!) and it wouldn't be overpowered, because any skill points you put towards shaping will still only help one category of creations.

 

Basically, if you don't mind players working to get a better result -- by insisting they do it through save-scumming, you are saying "I want to make my players who optimize like I do, do pointless clicking that isn't interesting for moderately long periods of time, just because." And I mean, that is a design decision you can make, I guess.

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Sold. :)

You convinced me with the "If I spend the entire game collecting research on Vlish, why shouldn't they become better than wingbolts?" argument. And you're also right that no, they won't be better because they have a total of +8. Especially considering what other things you opted out (don't spoil please! It's the big surprise!) so you can get supervlish.

By the time you have gathered those 20-30 research notes, you would already HAVE wingbolts most probably in your arsenal. So expendable Vlish would need that +8 to compete.

 

That I'll do: All 3 same-tier raise (but it'll be more expensive) together.

 

And most importantly... You don't have to make super-Vlish or spend half the game going for the most badass Vlish the world has ever seen. But if you want... why not? :)

 

Thanks for setting my priorities straight. I won't go for Super-vlish \ Mega-Drayks \ super-Cryoras. Others may want to. And you're right. If a player wants to spend effort on getting the Drayks of apocalypse... it shouldn't be effort spent in reloads when it could be effort locating notes and equipment.

 

 

To my defense...I am not a game designer. I made the wrong choice. V1.1 will also have corrected the choices to remove randomness.

Blxz and Cold Hearted Trach like this

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If you have more suggestions, keep them coming. The "Boosting all low-tiers together is not game breaking" was an eye-opener. And I totally respect the work you have done on game balance and optimization. So I defer to your wisdom.

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I actually don't think you need to increase the cost. As you pointed out, the player will already have wingbolts, so making roamers, clawbugs, and vlish stronger is not that exciting even though they are decent creations. Especially when I think about that +8... +8 is not a lot at that point when the weaker creations have as much of a lower base level as they do (12 levels for vlish/wingbolts), and often lower damage dice, resistances, etc. Plus, the player has to go to a lot of trouble to do this, and it is the central thread of this mod, which is probably the only reason your players will be replaying G5 in the first place :)

 

Anyway, I'm glad you liked the idea and appreciate the min-maxing, but no actual deferring please. You took initiative and made this thing, you make the calls and you run with it! :cool:

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Yeah, I'm doing tests on Vlish\Wingbolt right now. The mod is for Shapers\Lifecrafters so essence is not that much a problem to mitigate the huge advantage in level, hp and damage of the wingbolts. I'm actually going for "Vlish that costs 70 essence to be able to sliiightly compete with 140 essence costing wingbolt"

Roamer\Kyshaak is not even possible so I won't sweat over it.

Battle Beta \ Rot ... ? That I'll also try to peg at "Beta costing 1/2 as a rot to be able to not make a fool of itself compared to the rot."

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" I'm glad you liked the idea and appreciate the min-maxing, but no actual deferring please. "

 

I kinda need your expertise here. My +6 lvls, boosted-to-cost-60-essence Vlish has about the same hp as the WBolt, does 1/2 the damage but curses enemies. And it's about as hard to hit. I think ... it's fairly powerful. Boost the Vlish to cost as much as the Wingbolt and it is a quite better creation. Which is OK, cause it's still worse than gazers that you would have by the time you get spawning 30-level Vlish.

What do you think? We're REALLY at the threshold that the protagonist can make Vlish more powerful than wingbolts at about the same essence cost.

We could well go back to the 4 Vlish armies...

Plated Clawbug +6 lvls boosted to 90 essence is not as good as a war trall, but certainly not useless. Not sure how WTralls compare to Rots, but still remarkable.

 

I guess that at +4 lvls (which would be in the "I don't have 140 essence to spare for an extra 4-tier" part of the game) if you have focused on 2-tier you'd be better off with a slightly boosted 2-tier than a vanilla 3-tier for a tough battle.

 

Is it too much? It doesn't matter?

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I think the thing that's missing from your analysis is that creations can get a LOT of extra levels if you have them level up as you travel, and you get vlish early-ish, and they are cheap enough to make a lot of early. Since this bonus comes later, you have to at least equal the bonus levels you'd get from levelling, just to have these mega-vlish be as effective as regular vlish.

 

Also, don't forget about resistance: the wingbolt, IIRC, has fantastic resistance to energy magic (the damage type used by artila, vlish, kyshakks, wingbolts, gazers, and I *think* drakons, ur-drakons, and unbound -- that may have been different in diff games though); plus, tier 4-5 creations all have much better mental resistance than lower ones (don't remember if vlish were an exception, but I don't think so).

 

Remember, this mega-vlish thing takes a committed effort, and it requires giving up other bonuses. Even if you make something "basically as good as a wingbolt" (which you probably won't quite get to) the player who goes this route is still taking a loss, compared to just making wingbolts and taking the other bonuses instead.

alhoon likes this

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Well, the long-companion Vlish (that by that time would be higher level than the mega-Vlish) is not affected by the research. What the Megavlish research allows you to do is to "catch up" if you decide to make Vlish. Add in the artifacts\items that give levels on creation and cannisters\training and the Megavlsh would be at the same level as a Vlish that has been with you since the second area.

Same with plated clawbugs.

Of course you cede other bonuses to do that, but that's the choice of the player.

 

 

As a note, I cleared a few high-ish level encounters with just my mega-Vlish and a just-spawned Wingbolt fighting together. Same with War-trall and Plated clawbug.

The Mega-Vlish did better against magic-resistant creations and slightly worse (but with curse) against non-magic resistant ones (Rots). The Vlish was so high level, that it was taking less damage than the wingbolt in some attacks.

I was really impressed.

 

In the end, it was really fun to have a str 34, dex 34, 600 hp Clawbug and a str 31, dex 33, 420 hp Vlish vs Rots and Drakons.

And fun was the target. So... I consider that a job well done.

 

" the player who goes this route is still taking a loss, compared to just making wingbolts and taking the other bonuses instead. "

True, but Trashing Gazaki Uss with 2 Vlish is funnier. :)

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Nice! I'll test this out once I complete G5.

 

I fully expect it to be savegame compatible but am nervous about introducing a mod when I am so close to finishing.

 

I will, however, put it in as I replay some of the alternate endings and would be happy to check out how the story evolves. I'm very interested. Good job!

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May I suggest you try the "V1.1" that I'll upload soon, including the corrections and suggestions from this thread? Our name-changing moderator has provided some ideas for improvements on the research.

 

As for save-game compatible: It is. I made the whole thing with my before-ending-choosing save.

As a note, if you're level 45 you can already defeat everything with ease but I'm sure you will still enjoy the mod. There are hidden gems there.

 

To try the mod, I would suggest again you make a save before choosing a faction and start from that save.

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V1.1 is Out! Thanks to those that made suggestions for improvement.

 

- Corrected some spelling mistakes

- Research on creation types now increase all the creations of a tier.

Blxz likes this

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" Since this bonus comes later, you have to at least equal the bonus levels you'd get from levelling, just to have these mega-vlish be as effective as regular vlish. "

 

Forgot to answer that: I got Vlish at level 22. By the time I would have say 25 research notes I would be well into 35 lvl. That's +13 levels if I had a Vlish around for that long.

HOWEVER: In the mean time, I got equipment and artifacts that give me a +4 to making Vlish, and improved my magic Shaping by +2-3. Perhaps there are cannisters of Vlishdom that I've also missed and dedicated Vlish people would increase their magic shaping even more.

 

As such, that +8 from research would make any new Vlish of the commited researcher surpass a Vlish that has been with me from the start, simply because when I first got Vlish I would be way worse in equipment\Shaping.

On the other hand... I can't say the same for Clawbugs. You can get clawbugs so early, that they can get easily +25 levels. Plated Clawbugs... dedicated research brings them more or less where they would have been if they were with you since you could first make them.

 

Yet... research improves ALL three. The dedicated Vlish Shaper will get Vlish better than wingbolts ... and clawbugs that can also compete with level 4 creations even if he or she hasn't put more than a point or two in battle Shaping.

 

You haven't even bothered to buy "battle alpha" research from those snobbish Shaper tutors and you're a dedicated Drayk Shaper? You'll get your battle betas too.

 

 

And if you concentrate on low levels... there's something to be said about level 32 Artilae or Thands. On Thands specifically, I think they're better than Battle Alphas since charged thands have high resistance and they're higher level. The dedicated Cryora\Thand\Artilla researcher can get surprisingly much out of such cheap creations.

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I AM amazed. As soon as i get The PC fixed i'll try it out but this seems very well made. Just to make clear; you can get albeit weaker, get ur drakons and the kind earlier in The game? And get virtually any kind of creation? On a new thought, your research lab, can it be attacked at Random times. Or specific ones just to keep it dynamic só its more engaging. Its a long shot however. In any case dont sell yourself short you've done something great. Proofs skill isnt everything. Keep on.

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Thank you for the kind words. If you start the mod keep in mind that while the questline could be started at any point, the later you start it, the later you would get the benefits.

Yes, you could make Vlish as powerful as wingbolts (PS. I don't think that's the best use of your research potential; better follow the research quest lines)

If you get those Vlish about the time you have 2 gazers in your army, the gazers would still be better.

 

To answer:

 

- You do not get creations earlier by this mod! It adds content, doesn't change it.

 

 

- The research lab: Whether you would get it, depends on your choices. At some point in the early stages of my quest-line you get an event of "perhaps you could set up a laboratory in a place that has... "

It is ONE specific place. It is a "puzzle" of shorts to figure what that place could be. If you visit many locations, you'll find it. But you need to have done something first that comes into play in the late game.

 

The next contain minor spoilers:

 

Attacks

 

 

Depending on your choices, your lab may be attacked by Shapers or Rebels at random. Certain choices and actions affect the chance.

At first I had it open, it would continue to eternity. Then I decided to reduce it to max 3-4 attacks from each side. Else its more or less cheating after a point since you get XP and money.

 

 

 

 

And get virtually any kind of creation?

No but...

 

 

You gain access to creations not normally available through a big quest line if you have consumed many cannisters.

 

The creations are (heavy spoiler)

 

 

No, really it's a big spoiler. Better close this right now and play the mod!

 

 

You've been warned. You have only yourself to blame for losing the O_O factor.

The creations you get are the Unbound. At the end of a research quest line, you walk out of Gazaki-Uss with two Unbound. If you steal them without permission, the Rebels go berserk. But... you have two Unbound. The rebels can't do much. At 40+ lvl with artifacts and equipment that boosts my creations I had no problem escaping Gazaki-Uss.

 

Unbound may not be very high hitters but the have 2 wingbolt-damage attacks (12 AP) that also do continuous acid damage and have more hp than Wartralls. A very high level hasted gazer is... still worse than an Unbound.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I got your GF5 mod installed so will be playing that at a leisurely pace. (I played far enough to check the library and see it was installed. If possible I would recommend adding some kind of sign to the very beginning of the game, so that you don’t have to play through the whole intro to figure out whether the mod was installed or not.)

 

I could do that probably, but it would require a slightly more complicated installation.

Specifically, instead of emptying everything in the script folder, the beginning image should go to the graphics folder. Do you think it's worth it?

 

If I may suggest: Don't trade your research notes for money unless you really have to. Also, there's a chance (depending on your choices) that you will never think to make a laboratory. Keep a save of the moment you discover your identity.

 

 

And remember: I could not add quest-logs. Use the book-sign to save info.

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NEWS:

I am working for some time now on a new mod. This one is for Guardians\Warriors.

Once in Gazaki-Uss, if you're pro-rebel you can go to Greta and request to be made a captain for the Rebellion, commander of your own base.

After a quest you do get your base, staffed and all. You can command your soldiers to join your group when needed, instead of making more creations saving essence.

 

Unlike the Shaper\Lifecrafter mod, there is no research potential in this one. Instead, the combat worthiness of your troops is tracked. The greater the Combat worthiness, the more powerful your troops will be.

They start quite pathetic and can become an elite fighting force, very worthy additions to your party.

Your choices and several quests increase\decrease their combat worthiness.

 

Aside of research and research quests, the other pillar of the Shaper\Lifecrafter mod was the identity quest. Discovering who you are.

I don't do that in the Warrior\Guardian mod.

Instead, there is increased interraction with a few NPCs; some added to this mod and some expanded from existing ones. At the time I write this, one is recruitable and if you have her in your party she occasionally speaks her mind. Others are in your base and you can choose to talk to them and another may visit you from time to time*.

 

*Yes, you'll get in the shoes of all those fort commanders and captains that sit in their office and you barge in, looking for quests\rewards\XP.

 

I have more plans for the mod, but those are the things that are already in it. I don't want to hype things that I may not be able to deliver.

The mod is nowhere near finish. I want to expand on the quests, on the NPC dialogue etc.

 

HOWEVER: Suggestions are welcome.

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Emm... The big orange download button should work.

 

If you keep trying and it doesn't work (it shows to me that it does work; the mod is just 230KB to 250KB or something similar) tell me and I'll email it to you.

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I'm meandering through....I'll soon be on my way to the fourth clue to the PC's identity (I want to build some more Leadership first before I head that way, since I see it's required to get the full experience). So far the mod looks discreet and tasteful...and respectful to the original source material. Which I like. Also, I like that it doesn't seem designed (so far) to push you towards or against any of the factions...which is in keeping with the spirit of the original, that leaves the moral choices up to the player.

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Thank you again for the encouraging words. I hope you like it.

Well... I don't push towards or against any of the factions in that mod. As in, you get incentives to join the Rebels or the Shapers.

Yet, this mod pushes towards the player remaining unaligned till at least the mid-game.

And to progress down the quest lines, you will need to align with one or the other side. The quest lines are optional though.

 

 

HOWEVER: Much of the mod centers around your laboratory and the research \ experiments you do to improve Shaping. Hence, while there's nothing stopping you from becoming a Trakovite, it would be weird to be one while going in Shaping-mad-rush for research.

Yet, I said "well, I went Trakovite while upturning everything, even murdering people, to find cannisters in order to make stronger tier 5 creations" So yes, technically you CAN join the Trakovites while piling up insane amounts of Shaping power.

 

(In the one I'm making now, I'm heavily pushing towards rebels mainly because I don't want to write the same scripts TWICE. I'll put a "betray the rebels" clause though).

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Oh, and if I may ask... do you know how many research notes you have found so far?

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I was leaving them alone for a long time...now I am collecting them for Alexie. Do I need to collect them for any other purpose?

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Ah... if you decide to build your laboratory, you'll definitely need them for research. That's how research is counted.

 

- Your Research potential is (mainly) increased with research notes that you study in your laboratory.

 

You COULD buy them back from Alexie, but she's much harder to convince to sell them back and will sell you back less notes than you sold her for very high price. Selling her 6-10 notes to complete her quests won't terribly affect you, but to put in Drayk terms: You could have used those notes to get a +1 to +2 to your mid-tier creation stats.

And Improving your Shaping skills is not in my opinion the best you can get out of research. There are two fairly large quest chains available to spice the mid-to-end game aside of "gather research notes => increase shaping"

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Still about where I was...I gave Alexie her bare minimum number of books to get the Drayk lessons, but based on what you tell me, have otherwise been saving notes for when I make the lab. Is the opportunity to do this going to pop up in natural sequence if I keep following the clues to my own past, or is there something on the side I'll have to do?

 

A suggestion:

If you want the mod to be playable without an outside “guide,” and also to be user-friendly for people who play occasionally instead of in a marathon, maybe you could add a few words to the dialogue of Alexie and others who reward you for shaper notes? E.g., she might say, “If you bring me [six] more of these, I have an extra reward for you…” (Don’t have time to write cleverer dialogue right now), together with some kind of narrators’ warning… “You reflect that you yourself could make good use of these notes if you had a laboratory of your own. Perhaps you’ll find the means to do that in your travels.”

 

Btw, do “special item” shaper notes (like the ones that are supposed to be hidden in the ruins with the unbound)…are these useful in the lab, or might I as well turn them in for rewards when I get them?

 

Great mod so far!

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Laboratory: Well, there will be a clue about where you could set up your lab at the end of the identity quest... if you pick the right answer.

But the area that is to be converted to your lab requires you to have done certain rebel quests. The reasoning for this from my part is:

If you're completely aligned with the Shapers you agree with them that Shaping should be regulated and that's dangerous. Hence you shouldn't go and set up secret labs.

 

Alexie and hints about research notes:

One thing I want to avoid, is change the material that's already in the game.

To my defense I put a " >> READ THEM ALL, THEY ARE ALL IMPORTANT << " in the clarifications, and explained that research notes are needed in the clarifications.

(And yes, they are all important ;) )

 

Btw, do “special item” shaper notes (like the ones that are supposed to be hidden in the ruins with the unbound)…are these useful in the lab, or might I as well turn them in for rewards when I get them?

 

Turn them in! Haven't thought of them. Now that you mention it, I will in a future update make them useful in the lab. Thanks for that. If there are more, please tell me.

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It's your mod, in the end, but I don't see it that way...consider how Blxz used canisters left and right, but ended up as a Shaper and a Taygenite Shaper at that. It's always tempting in war to say, "Yes, I agree, this is and should be the Law of War...but if I just violate it myself, just a little bit, I can win."

 

 

And there are PC’s who don’t exactly line up with one of the factions but have to choose one…for example, I myself was opposed to canisters, geneforges, and self shaping, but not so much to creating creatures…and ended up as a semi-reluctant Trakovite, but one who didn’t hesitate to make forbidden Drayks in pursuit of a Better Tomorrow.

(I might easily have justified allying with Alwan on the same grounds; yet gone ahead with forbidden creations to get where I was going.)

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I feel you. But... it would be too much work to add a shaper-accessible lab. Keep in mind that you can align with the Shapers in the mod, in which case the Rebels go after your lab. It's just that you can't let's say "unlock" the location for the lab unless you do a specific rebel quest. I have added quests after that where you can go against the rebels in the mod.

 

 

I could tell you where you start the lab and that would probably answer your questions of why it needs to be "unlocked" by a rebel quest. After you finish the identity quest if you have trouble guessing\finding where the location is, ask and I'll tell you.

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I'm through it now -- at least, I got the answer (nice surprise), got some skill boosts, and didn't get any pointers to further clues. I'm playing as an Astoria supporter this time (though I did a few Trakovite quests). So, if I'm out of the running for the research lab, feel free to tell me whatever you would like about it!

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Nah you are in, the "Rebel" quest is actually in the Astoria quest chain too. :)

 

Did the mod inject some extra interest in a game you've already seen? Was the reward worth the effort?

 

 

PS. If you chose the dialogue option that is more or less a decision by your character to NOT pursue power because of the dangers... that's the "real" Trakovite option that we discussed earlier. You can be a "not-pure" Trakovite as Litalia calls herself surrounding herself in a dozen creations and go for the power. :) You can finish the game as a "not pure" trakovite and still explore all the quests in the research chain.

 

 

If you actually go for the lab and the power it provides I would suggest putting 8-10 notes to unlock all the options and check them (to see what the research quests are about) before doing research.

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A week or two back, I played Alhoon’s “shaper/lifecrafter” GF5 mod. It was excellent. My brief review:

As you can see from the thread, the mod has two main features. #1, it allows the player to follow a quest chain to find out who he really is. #2, it allows him to enhance his shaping abilities. The overall effect is like a good sauce or condiment: it complements the flavor of the original game, but does not fundamentally change it. So, if you’ve just finished your first playthrough, I don’t recommend running right back to the beginning just to see the mod. But if, like me, you haven’t played the game for a few years, this mod makes a fun tweak to the experience.

The story of the PC’s origin is spread across multiple encounters that carry him around the game world, and so prevent the reveal from coming too soon. It was well written and an entertaining theory, and as far as I can tell it fits the facts we know. (An extreme nitpicker-nerd might find an inconsistency I missed, but for the level of reality this game shows, I liked it just fine.) The player doesn’t have to accept the story as true, but it won’t hurt him if he does. The game didn’t allow Alhoon to modify the ending scripts, so don’t be disappointed if the game ending still tells you you don’t know who you are. You’ll know you do.

The shaping enhancement doesn’t come until fairly late in the game and relies on at least one major anti-Shaper quest being fulfilled, though I believe Alhoon may be modifying future versions to allow this option to more loyal players via a different pathway. It relies on shaper notes—so save them—but if you sell the notes as quest items, you can buy them back (at a sizable markup) so as to use them for shaping enhancement. Even played straight it can give you a considerable boost in power; and if you go crazy (crazier than I went playing through), there’s a quest I didn’t try that can take you even further.

The parts I played never made the game harder; they simply gave you options to make yourself more powerful if you chose to do so. Since I was playing on Normal difficulty, it didn’t frustrate me at all. I note that setting up the extra shaping option also gives you a sometime source of endless fights, but with the extra power and the relative ease of the game by the time I got there I didn’t see any point in grinding for higher levels.

I made a few recommendations to smooth the mechanics, and to make it harder for a “casual” player to go off the rails. But even as I played it, it was a fun mod and a good enhancer for a replay, especially if that replay comes long after your last playthrough.

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Bumping this thread is unnecessary, Alhoon. It is linked in the G5 strategy central thread at the top of the forum. Anyone looking for G5 info would hopefully check there and end up finding the link to here. :D

alhoon and Aeolus like this

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Also, threads are not auto-locked or auto-archived or anything after any amount of time. OTOH, when you make a "bump" post everyone who accesses the site primarily through the "recent posts" feature (which is a lot of us) then click on your "bump" post and most likely get annoyed. So please don't do that unless you actually have a reason to call attention back to the thread you're bumping. (I've gone ahead and deleted your bump in the other discussion thread. If there was a reason for it, feel free to rebump it with an actual explanation of why you're calling it to our attention :)

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There was not any reason to bump them, and I have reported the three-four bump posts I made. If you would be so kind to delete them all, cause I can't? Sorry for the fuss. I didn't know that threads are not deleted after they go say, page 10.

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A quick catch-up on my activities: I managed to use the GF5 editor I found on this site to successfully add creatures that a zone didn't have.

While that may not seem too important, it unties my hands as I can choose the areas that make sense for the quests I want to make without the constraint of what types of creature were there.

For example, I can in the future have a quest for the PC to create a servant mind for his base or have an agent try to assassinate the PC and more, Much more!

 

So far, I haven't uploaded anything new. But things are happening in the warrior mod. While it's less ambitious than the Shaper one, it has more content.

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@Alhoon So you can essentially add completely new characters to the game now? That sounds pretty groundbreaking to me, considering that wasn't really possible before. What editor are you using to do it? I actually kinda want that editor, mainly because I'm trying to add my own characters to GF5 (Big fan of the game, btw). I was trying to go for something like in GF3, where you have long term companions that go with you, they have their own opinions, weapon upgrades, etc. I've been struggling because simply because I wasn't able to add new characters (Among other things), but it sounds like you found a way.

 

Btw, I'm new here, so hello everyone! Big fan of Geneforge, as you can probably tell. :)

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Hello Gameman! I'm really glad you are willing to add to the game and I believe a mod that adds companions with backstories, opinions etc would be useful.

Truth be told, I'm using companions in the Warrior mod but they're available in the late game.

 

Know that any kind of alteration requires a lot of effort.

 

 

To add people, I used that editor (http://spiderwebforums.ipbhost.com/index.php?/topic/20452-blades-of-geneforge-zone-simulator/). The first links are broken, but down the line there's one that works.

It is not an easy one to use, let me tell you that.

 

What you want to do, add people, can be done by the editor. However, you can at times "add" people by taking someone and changing their name and stats from the script and that's x10 easier.

Remember in Perikalia, that you "buy" a battle Alpha? The same script can be used to add anyone in your party, as long as you go through the quite long trial-and-error to find their number.

For example, Phyllida, in Gazaki Uss can be added to your party from the script with " add_char_to_party(74); "

To remove her, it requires a bit more trial and error... You need to find her total number. For Phyllida, it is 1205. So, to remove her from the party you need a script command of " remove_char_from_party(1205); "

 

There are a lot of random people here and there that you could "repurpose". Want an agent? Take that lazy gal in Alwan's fort, move her to a cell or something, rename her, change her level and give her a backstory and a quest.

Need a mage? There are some bandit mages that you could swing away and turn them from bandits, to bandit captives.

That kind of thing.

 

Where things get tough and actually require the editor in my opinion is when you have a good reason to want to put a high-level quest in a low-level area. Sure, you could have the player fighting 35 level cryoras but... wouldn't it be better to have wingbolts and kyshaaks there? That's where you need the editor.

 

If you need any pointers, I would be happy to help. We could do it in private messages if you prefer, or you can open another thread and get the opinion of the several veterans here.

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@alhoon So you've been using the Zone Simulator to make new characters, huh? Strange. It always seems to lead me to a site that says "access denied" for me, even when using the links further below the post, but maybe that's because I'm trying to access the site via a Macbook.

 

Believe me when I say this, I've done what you've described before, taking certain characters and modifying them to suit my needs. Changing characters and shuffling them around is, like you said, easy. The problem for me lies with the fact that:

1) It takes a character from a zone to do so, meaning that it can look kinda awkward to see. It's easy to notice too. (I've downloaded your Shaper mod, and while I do love the new things you can do in Rockfall, it was noticeable that you were reusing the characters in the Rockfall zone to do so. The creations you create to defend your base, the attacks, all reused characters. Also, I noticed that when you get attacked, your defending creations all disappear. I looked at the code, and again, you're having to use the defending creations as the attacking force. Not dissing you, just pointing out that it probably would've been more convenient if you were able to add completely new characters to zones, like you have done now).

2) I'm limited on what I can do regarding the graphics of the individual. While it would be easy in some cases to simply take a generic warrior with you (which I've done plenty of times), I was sorta going for a more unique look for the companion in my game.

 

Being able to add new characters would make it a lot less awkward. Like you said alhoon, you no longer have to reuse characters in a zone; you can add completely new ones. For me, that means it is possible to add a brand new unique character to the game. Though from the sounds of it, it sounds like the Zone Simulator might require something like hex editing. No experience with that, I will admit, but it won't stop me for trying.

 

I could try to open another thread regarding this. I was sorta thinking I would put what I had in mind for a character in this thread and what I did, seeing as this thread is what convinced me to try editing the game scripts, as well as the fact that this thread could open up more possible modding ideas, but if you're worried that it'll derail the thread, I'll open a new one.

 

Edit: BTW, I have the GF5 Disc, but I've only uploaded the game on my Macbook. I'm guessing I'm going to have to do the editing work with the Zone Simulator on a Windows computer, right?

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For Base defense, I had enough to go around. The turrets for example could have been there. I didn't want to bog down the fight though nor it was plausible that your enemies would attack with a minor force; better to say that part of their forces would be tied down fighting yours and have the character take on the main threat. If I would add anything in that case, it would be a guardian to lead the force and a couple more navigation points. That's what has been restricting me there.

 

In any case, I think that a thread dedicated to your efforts would be useful. There are people here that do much more than I do. It would be good.

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I'll consider doing the thread later. I'll be honest, compared to the stuff the people in this forum do with this game, I don't really do that much to mod the game. My efforts are pretty small compared to others, and a lot of it did require me to do a lot of things that look awkward in game (I was looking through the code, and I saw that Mehken, the servile you meet early in GF5, had her own custom entry. I completely changed the entry, altering the graphics, abilities, etc., putting my own character in, but what made it awkward is that the custom entry is also used at the Pacification Fields. Basically means that new character meets you at the fields. It was thematically awkward, and I realized that I would have to change around the dialogue and script for a lot of the game, since I've essentially made it so that Mehken never meets the player in the Whitespires).

 

Also, to give you an idea on the character I was working on implementing: It is a character that you meet very early on in GF4. You (the player) had to deal with this character early on in the game. It is also a character that some people think could've been the GF5 protagonist.

 

Edit: alhoon, you talked about the total number for each character. How do you find that? Do you just test every number possible until you find it? Or did you use some other way to do it? I'm not exactly sure how the total number thing works exactly...

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Also, to give you an idea on the character I was working on implementing: It is a character that you meet very early on in GF4. You (the player) had to deal with this character early on in the game. It is also a character that some people think could've been the GF5 protagonist.

 

Is this the damaged shaper chick that can be freed, killed or handed to the shapers by any chance? An interesting party member to be sure.

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Shaila. Certainly interesting and she did end up to the Foundry probably if you give her to the Shapers. I don't think she can be freed though. Your choices are kill her or give her to the Shapers to "cure" her.

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Both of you are correct. I implemented Shaila into the game, though I had to use Mehken's character slot to do so (It was the most convenient at the time). I'll talk more about her implementation and what I tried to do and some of the problems with her addition in the other thread alhoon opened up (Namely, the fact that I tried to code in weapon upgrades for her that you can buy, much like your companions in GF3. Couldn't do it, at least for now).

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Is there a link to download the scripts most current stable version of this mod? and has the Shalia mod been merged into it? would the two be mutually exclusive if they aren't merged???

 

I ask this partly because both sound really cool but also because I dabble in modding the scripts (nothing as fancy or deep as you guys I mainly edit items and creations for balancing purposes and coolness) and I want to install these before I start screwing with stuff myself.

 

My tweaks are mainly rebalancing the game by making sure that the upgraded version of creations was actually an upgrade, buffing the ones that actually sucked, making certain weapons cooler and more powerful and such and then after I was done buffing things that would help the character, I then increased the health and power of enemies accordingly so the character wouldn't be OP and slaughter everything effortlessly. In G3&4 I had to make much more drastic changes but in G5 I found the game mostly balanced well and feels like the way I would have done it so I didn't have to do as much.

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I'm afraid that my modifications regarding the implementation of Shaila are for my personal experimentation only at the moment. I might consider releasing mods at some point, but it won't be for a long, long while. Sorry.

 

My modding abilities is not nearly as impressive as alhoon's, but this game isn't too hard to modify once you figure out what to do. For me, I started modding more extensively when I saw alhoon's first mod released, and I was already messing with the scripts before I starting going deeper, much like you are right now. Wouldn't be hard for you to go deeper into modding his game, if you're willing to take the time to do so. :)

 

Out of curiousity, which upgraded creations did you think weren't so good? There might be a chance I've done similar modifications to upgraded creations forms, and I can give a couple of ideas on how to buff certain creations, if you want. :)

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