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GF5 mod with EXTRA quest chain! More GF5 content!

GF5 Geneforge mod script modification

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alhoon alhoon

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Posted 10 July 2016 - 04:33 AM #1 GF5 mod with EXTRA quest chain! More GF5 content!

After a lot of work, I can finally present to all you Geneforge fans a new modification for GF5.


The mod expands the content of GF5 without altering existing quests\endings\content by adding a new, large, quest chain for Shapers \ Lifecrafters (only for those). It adds choices, it doesn't remove any existing ones. The content is combat-light... unless you decide otherwise.
The only assumption this mod makes aside of the game is...the identity of the amnesiac protagonist, that he discovers bit by bit.
As such the quest chain can be completely ignored without any effect on GF5 game. Or... you can follow it, discover clues of who you are, choose to ignore or believe them, set up a research laboratory like so many NPCs have, discover amazing (but not game-breaking) powers and perhaps settle some old scores with past enemies.
To be clear, the protagonist doesn't discover any concrete proof to confirm the theory on his identity. You even have the choice to reject the conclusion at the end of the identity quest as false. But if you do, you won't get the idea to build up the laboratory.

I believe the mod increases the replay-value of GF5, since not only it adds exiting features and quests in certain locations, but you'll keep an eye open for the now much-coveted research notes in areas not affected by the mod.

At the end of the quest chain you manage to do something most people considered impossible. Both people in the game and gamers that play the game alike. ;)

You can find the mod (V1.1) here:

  http://gamefront.onl.../GF5Origins.rar


Installation instructions
Spoiler

Clarifications
Spoiler

EDIT: I'm working on a new mod for Warriors and Guardians. You take command of a Rebel outpost. See post 19 for more details.


About my motives: Why I decided to spend that much time on a mod.
Spoiler

Changes from V1.0
Spoiler

"I am not mad, no matter what you're implying." - Litalia

GF5 mod with extra quest chain here!  Discover who you are and set up your base.

"Ohhh, no! No, it's so close! So close!" - Blxz, ambushed by an Unbound

Venus Ursagi Venus Ursagi

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Posted 10 July 2016 - 05:06 AM #2 GF5 mod with EXTRA quest chain! More GF5 content!

Looking at the scripts, I'm impressed.  This is a creative idea, especially the way research is handled, and the bits with late-game relevance, and it looks well implemented and well written.

Two constructive comments:
- I don't love the random element in the research on creations.  Given that it's impossible to effectively concentrate in multiple shaping paths anyway, this will inevitably just cause reloads.
- Kratoa-Kel is spelled with a hyphen, not a space.
"I, for one, prefer to believe that the forums are dead and that Lilith, Slarty, and I are all ghosts haunting the forum." -- Triumph

"I think we all have days where we feel like a Displacer Iguana." -- Slarty

alhoon alhoon

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Posted 10 July 2016 - 05:43 AM #3 GF5 mod with EXTRA quest chain! More GF5 content!

First, thank you for the interest and the comments. As well as the correction. V1.1 Will have that corrected.

Second, about the research:

- The most important reason is game balance. There are over 30 research notes and you could buy more. Focus on Vlish for long enough and you'll end up with Vlish that are better than Wingbolts.

- I could of course just... increase the cost for focused creations. However the protagonist in my opinion (and is reflected in the mod) works on notes from here and there. Some notes about Drayks. A nice idea about Vlish. The problems someone stumbled when trying to make Fyoras.
He doesn't have a full Shaper Library or laboratory. He's mostly using his genious to back-engineer from and improve on other people's work.*

- Thematically, based on the identity of the protagonist, not my ideas, stuff we know from the 1st chapter of the game (heavily changed, powerful, re-awakens lost powers) I felt that he should be good in all low tier creations. Cheap research is the way to do it IMO.

- Save-scumming is of course an option and I don't mind that. People that want to reload for a better result are free to do so. I don't frown on that... I'm a compulsive-loader myself ;) .



If I may spoil future plans for you (about other character types, not Shaper/Lifecrafter),
Spoiler


EDIT:
* What could be done on V1.2 is simply to have side-quests where the Drayk-mad \ Vlish-mad \ Cryoras-are-underestimated-mad protagonist simply looks for and tracks the right research.
- Taygen is reportedly Brilliant... raiding his place could help our Drayks-better-than-Drakons protagonist.
- What more can be found in Rawal's repository? Probably what the protagonist needs to make terror Vlish that are, indeed, terrific.
- Benhold is hitting Shapers. Did he steal that valuable report about Uber-Fyoras?

That kind of thing.
But... to be frank, I prefer to work on the Agent\Infiltrator Origins (V2)
"I am not mad, no matter what you're implying." - Litalia

GF5 mod with extra quest chain here!  Discover who you are and set up your base.

"Ohhh, no! No, it's so close! So close!" - Blxz, ambushed by an Unbound

Venus Ursagi Venus Ursagi

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Posted 10 July 2016 - 07:19 AM #4 GF5 mod with EXTRA quest chain! More GF5 content!

View Postalhoon, on 10 July 2016 - 05:43 AM, said:

- The most important reason is game balance. There are over 30 research notes and you could buy more. Focus on Vlish for long enough and you'll end up with Vlish that are better than Wingbolts.
I'm not actually sure this is true.  And if it is... I mean, if you spend the entire game focusing on Vlish, why can't they eventually be better than Wingbolts?

Because the research option isn't available early in the game, and even if it were, you don't have all 30 research notes right away, it takes time to collect/buy them... any bonus you gain this way has a trade-off: you lose time that you could be building up the levels of your creations through experience.  That is not negligible.  I think that by itself means the mega-vlish won't beat wingbolts.

I like your idea about being good in all low-tier creations.  Why not just have the research option improve all low-tier creations, then?  This would encourage creation of different creation types (something the series has been sorely lacking!) and it wouldn't be overpowered, because any skill points you put towards shaping will still only help one category of creations.

Basically, if you don't mind players working to get a better result -- by insisting they do it through save-scumming, you are saying "I want to make my players who optimize like I do, do pointless clicking that isn't interesting for moderately long periods of time, just because."  And I mean, that is a design decision you can make, I guess.
"I, for one, prefer to believe that the forums are dead and that Lilith, Slarty, and I are all ghosts haunting the forum." -- Triumph

"I think we all have days where we feel like a Displacer Iguana." -- Slarty

alhoon alhoon

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Posted 10 July 2016 - 07:40 AM #5 GF5 mod with EXTRA quest chain! More GF5 content!

Sold. :)
You convinced me with the "If I spend the entire game collecting research on Vlish, why shouldn't they become better than wingbolts?" argument. And you're also right that no, they won't be better because they have a total of +8. Especially considering what other things you opted out (don't spoil please! It's the big surprise!) so you can get supervlish.
By the time you have gathered those 20-30 research notes, you would already HAVE wingbolts most probably in your arsenal. So expendable Vlish would need that +8 to compete.

That I'll do: All 3 same-tier raise (but it'll be more expensive) together.

And most importantly... You don't have to make super-Vlish or spend half the game going for the most badass Vlish the world has ever seen. But if you want... why not? :)

Thanks for setting my priorities straight. I won't go for Super-vlish \ Mega-Drayks \ super-Cryoras. Others may want to. And you're right. If a player wants to spend effort on getting the Drayks of apocalypse... it shouldn't be effort spent in reloads when it could be effort locating notes and equipment.


To my defense...I am not a game designer. I made the wrong choice. V1.1 will also have corrected the choices to remove randomness.
"I am not mad, no matter what you're implying." - Litalia

GF5 mod with extra quest chain here!  Discover who you are and set up your base.

"Ohhh, no! No, it's so close! So close!" - Blxz, ambushed by an Unbound

alhoon alhoon

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Posted 10 July 2016 - 07:58 AM #6 GF5 mod with EXTRA quest chain! More GF5 content!

If you have more suggestions, keep them coming. The "Boosting all low-tiers together is not game breaking" was an eye-opener. And I totally respect the work you have done on game balance and optimization. So I defer to your wisdom.
"I am not mad, no matter what you're implying." - Litalia

GF5 mod with extra quest chain here!  Discover who you are and set up your base.

"Ohhh, no! No, it's so close! So close!" - Blxz, ambushed by an Unbound

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Posted 10 July 2016 - 08:34 AM #7 GF5 mod with EXTRA quest chain! More GF5 content!

I actually don't think you need to increase the cost.  As you pointed out, the player will already have wingbolts, so making roamers, clawbugs, and vlish stronger is not that exciting even though they are decent creations.  Especially when I think about that +8... +8 is not a lot at that point when the weaker creations have as much of a lower base level as they do (12 levels for vlish/wingbolts), and often lower damage dice, resistances, etc.  Plus, the player has to go to a lot of trouble to do this, and it is the central thread of this mod, which is probably the only reason your players will be replaying G5 in the first place :)

Anyway, I'm glad you liked the idea and appreciate the min-maxing, but no actual deferring please.  You took initiative and made this thing, you make the calls and you run with it!  :cool:
"I, for one, prefer to believe that the forums are dead and that Lilith, Slarty, and I are all ghosts haunting the forum." -- Triumph

"I think we all have days where we feel like a Displacer Iguana." -- Slarty

alhoon alhoon

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Posted 10 July 2016 - 08:41 AM #8 GF5 mod with EXTRA quest chain! More GF5 content!

Yeah, I'm doing tests on Vlish\Wingbolt right now. The mod is for Shapers\Lifecrafters so essence is not that much a problem to mitigate the huge advantage in level, hp and damage of the wingbolts. I'm actually going for "Vlish that costs 70 essence to be able to sliiightly compete with 140 essence costing wingbolt"
Roamer\Kyshaak is not even possible so I won't sweat over it.
Battle Beta \ Rot ... ? That I'll also try to peg at "Beta costing 1/2 as a rot to be able to not make a fool of itself compared to the rot."
"I am not mad, no matter what you're implying." - Litalia

GF5 mod with extra quest chain here!  Discover who you are and set up your base.

"Ohhh, no! No, it's so close! So close!" - Blxz, ambushed by an Unbound

alhoon alhoon

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Posted 10 July 2016 - 09:36 AM #9 GF5 mod with EXTRA quest chain! More GF5 content!

" I'm glad you liked the idea and appreciate the min-maxing, but no actual deferring please. "

I kinda need your expertise here. My +6 lvls, boosted-to-cost-60-essence Vlish has about the same hp as the WBolt, does 1/2 the damage but curses enemies. And it's about as hard to hit. I think ... it's fairly powerful. Boost the Vlish to cost as much as the Wingbolt and it is a quite better creation. Which is OK, cause it's still worse than gazers that you would have by the time you get spawning 30-level Vlish.
What do you think? We're REALLY at the threshold that the protagonist can make Vlish more powerful than wingbolts at about the same essence cost.
We could well go back to the 4 Vlish armies...
Plated Clawbug +6 lvls boosted to 90 essence is not as good as a war trall, but certainly not useless. Not sure how WTralls compare to Rots, but still remarkable.

I guess that at +4 lvls (which would be in the "I don't have 140 essence to spare for an extra 4-tier" part of the game) if you have focused on 2-tier you'd be better off with a slightly boosted 2-tier than a vanilla 3-tier for a tough battle.

Is it too much? It doesn't matter?
"I am not mad, no matter what you're implying." - Litalia

GF5 mod with extra quest chain here!  Discover who you are and set up your base.

"Ohhh, no! No, it's so close! So close!" - Blxz, ambushed by an Unbound

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Posted 10 July 2016 - 10:18 AM #10 GF5 mod with EXTRA quest chain! More GF5 content!

I think the thing that's missing from your analysis is that creations can get a LOT of extra levels if you have them level up as you travel, and you get vlish early-ish, and they are cheap enough to make a lot of early.  Since this bonus comes later, you have to at least equal the bonus levels you'd get from levelling, just to have these mega-vlish be as effective as regular vlish.

Also, don't forget about resistance: the wingbolt, IIRC, has fantastic resistance to energy magic (the damage type used by artila, vlish, kyshakks, wingbolts, gazers, and I *think* drakons, ur-drakons, and unbound -- that may have been different in diff games though); plus, tier 4-5 creations all have much better mental resistance than lower ones (don't remember if vlish were an exception, but I don't think so).

Remember, this mega-vlish thing takes a committed effort, and it requires giving up other bonuses.  Even if you make something "basically as good as a wingbolt" (which you probably won't quite get to) the player who goes this route is still taking a loss, compared to just making wingbolts and taking the other bonuses instead.
"I, for one, prefer to believe that the forums are dead and that Lilith, Slarty, and I are all ghosts haunting the forum." -- Triumph

"I think we all have days where we feel like a Displacer Iguana." -- Slarty

alhoon alhoon

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Posted 10 July 2016 - 10:57 AM #11 GF5 mod with EXTRA quest chain! More GF5 content!

Well, the long-companion Vlish (that by that time would be higher level than the mega-Vlish) is not affected by the research. What the Megavlish research allows you to do is to "catch up" if you decide to make Vlish. Add in the artifacts\items that give levels on creation and cannisters\training and the Megavlsh would be at the same level as a Vlish that has been with you since the second area.
Same with plated clawbugs.
Of course you cede other bonuses to do that, but that's the choice of the player.


As a note, I cleared a few high-ish level encounters with just my mega-Vlish and a just-spawned Wingbolt fighting together. Same with War-trall and Plated clawbug.
The Mega-Vlish did better against magic-resistant creations and slightly worse (but with curse) against non-magic resistant ones (Rots). The Vlish was so high level, that it was taking less damage than the wingbolt in some attacks.
I was really impressed.

In the end, it was really fun to have a str 34, dex 34, 600 hp Clawbug and a str 31, dex 33, 420 hp Vlish vs Rots and Drakons.
And fun was the target. So... I consider that a job well done.

"  the player who goes this route is still taking a loss, compared to just making wingbolts and taking the other bonuses instead.  "
True, but Trashing Gazaki Uss with 2 Vlish is funnier. :)
"I am not mad, no matter what you're implying." - Litalia

GF5 mod with extra quest chain here!  Discover who you are and set up your base.

"Ohhh, no! No, it's so close! So close!" - Blxz, ambushed by an Unbound

Blxz Blxz

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Posted 10 July 2016 - 11:15 PM #12 GF5 mod with EXTRA quest chain! More GF5 content!

Nice! I'll test this out once I complete G5.

I fully expect it to be savegame compatible but am nervous about introducing a mod when I am so close to finishing.

I will, however, put it in as I replay some of the alternate endings and would be happy to check out how the story evolves. I'm very interested. Good job!

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Posted 10 July 2016 - 11:38 PM #13 GF5 mod with EXTRA quest chain! More GF5 content!

May I suggest you try the "V1.1" that I'll upload soon, including the corrections and suggestions from this thread? Our name-changing moderator has provided some ideas for improvements on the research.

As for save-game compatible: It is. I made the whole thing with my before-ending-choosing save.
As a note, if you're level 45 you can already defeat everything with ease but I'm sure you will still enjoy the mod. There are hidden gems there.

To try the mod, I would suggest again you make a save before choosing a faction and start from that save.
"I am not mad, no matter what you're implying." - Litalia

GF5 mod with extra quest chain here!  Discover who you are and set up your base.

"Ohhh, no! No, it's so close! So close!" - Blxz, ambushed by an Unbound

alhoon alhoon

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Posted 11 July 2016 - 11:07 PM #14 GF5 mod with EXTRA quest chain! More GF5 content!

V1.1 is Out! Thanks to those that made suggestions for improvement.

- Corrected some spelling mistakes
- Research on creation types now increase all the creations of a tier.
"I am not mad, no matter what you're implying." - Litalia

GF5 mod with extra quest chain here!  Discover who you are and set up your base.

"Ohhh, no! No, it's so close! So close!" - Blxz, ambushed by an Unbound

alhoon alhoon

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Posted 11 July 2016 - 11:27 PM #15 GF5 mod with EXTRA quest chain! More GF5 content!

" Since this bonus comes later, you have to at least equal the bonus levels you'd get from levelling, just to have these mega-vlish be as effective as regular vlish. "

Forgot to answer that: I got Vlish at level 22. By the time I would have say 25 research notes I would be well into 35 lvl. That's +13 levels if I had a Vlish around for that long.
HOWEVER: In the mean time, I got equipment and artifacts that give me a +4 to making Vlish, and improved my magic Shaping by +2-3. Perhaps there are cannisters of Vlishdom that I've also missed and dedicated Vlish people would increase their magic shaping even more.

As such, that +8 from research would make any new Vlish of the commited researcher surpass a Vlish that has been with me from the start, simply because when I first got Vlish I would be way worse in equipment\Shaping.
On the other hand... I can't say the same for Clawbugs. You can get clawbugs so early, that they can get easily +25 levels. Plated Clawbugs... dedicated research brings them more or less where they would have been if they were with you since you could first make them.

Yet... research improves ALL three. The dedicated Vlish Shaper will get Vlish better than wingbolts ... and clawbugs that can also compete with level 4 creations even if he or she hasn't put more than a point or two in battle Shaping.

You haven't even bothered to buy "battle alpha" research from those snobbish Shaper tutors  and you're a dedicated Drayk Shaper? You'll get your battle betas too.


And if you concentrate on low levels... there's something to be said about level 32 Artilae or Thands. On Thands specifically, I think they're better than Battle Alphas since charged thands have high resistance and they're higher level. The dedicated Cryora\Thand\Artilla researcher can get surprisingly much out of such cheap creations.
"I am not mad, no matter what you're implying." - Litalia

GF5 mod with extra quest chain here!  Discover who you are and set up your base.

"Ohhh, no! No, it's so close! So close!" - Blxz, ambushed by an Unbound

Owenmoz Owenmoz

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Posted 22 July 2016 - 01:00 AM #16 GF5 mod with EXTRA quest chain! More GF5 content!

I AM amazed. As soon as i get The PC fixed i'll try it out but this seems very well made. Just to make clear; you can get albeit weaker, get ur drakons and the kind earlier in The game? And get virtually any kind of creation? On a new thought, your research lab, can it be attacked at Random times. Or specific ones just to keep it dynamic só its more engaging. Its a long shot however. In any case dont sell yourself short you've done something great. Proofs skill isnt everything. Keep on.

alhoon alhoon

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Posted 22 July 2016 - 07:54 AM #17 GF5 mod with EXTRA quest chain! More GF5 content!

Thank you for the kind words. If you start the mod keep in mind that while the questline could be started at any point, the later you start it, the later you would get the benefits.
Yes, you could make Vlish as powerful as wingbolts (PS. I don't think that's the best use of your research potential; better follow the research quest lines)
If you get those Vlish about the time you have 2 gazers in your army, the gazers would still be better.

To answer:

- You do not get creations earlier by this mod! It adds content, doesn't change it.


- The research lab: Whether you would get it, depends on your choices. At some point in the early stages of my quest-line you get an event of "perhaps you could set up a laboratory in a place that has... "
It is ONE specific place. It is a "puzzle" of shorts to figure what that place could be. If you visit many locations, you'll find it. But you need to have done something first that comes into play in the late game.

The next contain minor spoilers:

Attacks
Spoiler


And get virtually any kind of creation?
No but...
Spoiler

"I am not mad, no matter what you're implying." - Litalia

GF5 mod with extra quest chain here!  Discover who you are and set up your base.

"Ohhh, no! No, it's so close! So close!" - Blxz, ambushed by an Unbound

alhoon alhoon

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Posted 23 July 2016 - 02:06 PM #18 GF5 mod with EXTRA quest chain! More GF5 content!

Quote

   I got your GF5 mod installed so will be playing that at a leisurely pace.  (I played far enough to check the library and see it was installed.  If possible I would recommend adding some kind of sign to the very beginning of the game, so that you don’t have to play through the whole intro to figure out whether the mod was installed or not.)   

I could do that probably, but it would require a slightly more complicated installation.
Specifically, instead of emptying everything in the script folder, the beginning image should go to the graphics folder. Do you think it's worth it?

If I may suggest: Don't trade your research notes for money unless you really have to. Also, there's a chance (depending on your choices) that you will never think to make a laboratory. Keep a save of the moment you discover your identity.


And remember: I could not add quest-logs. Use the book-sign to save info.
"I am not mad, no matter what you're implying." - Litalia

GF5 mod with extra quest chain here!  Discover who you are and set up your base.

"Ohhh, no! No, it's so close! So close!" - Blxz, ambushed by an Unbound

alhoon alhoon

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Posted 24 July 2016 - 08:53 AM #19 GF5 mod with EXTRA quest chain! More GF5 content!

NEWS:
I am working for some time now on a new mod. This one is for Guardians\Warriors.
Once in Gazaki-Uss, if you're pro-rebel you can go to Greta and request to be made a captain for the Rebellion, commander of your own base.
After a quest you do get your base, staffed and all. You can command your soldiers to join your group when needed, instead of making more creations saving essence.

Unlike the Shaper\Lifecrafter mod, there is no research potential in this one. Instead, the combat worthiness of your troops is tracked. The greater the Combat worthiness, the more powerful your troops will be.
They start quite pathetic and can become an elite fighting force, very worthy additions to your party.
Your choices and several quests increase\decrease their combat worthiness.

Aside of research and research quests, the other pillar of the Shaper\Lifecrafter mod was the identity quest. Discovering who you are.
I don't do that in the Warrior\Guardian mod.
Instead, there is increased interraction with a few NPCs; some added to this mod and some expanded from existing ones. At the time I write this, one is recruitable and if you have her in your party she occasionally speaks her mind. Others are in your base and you can choose to talk to them and another may visit you from time to time*.

*Yes, you'll get in the shoes of all those fort commanders and captains that sit in their office and you barge in, looking for quests\rewards\XP.

I have more plans for the mod, but those are the things that are already in it. I don't want to hype things that I may not be able to deliver.
The mod is nowhere near finish. I want to expand on the quests, on the NPC dialogue etc.

HOWEVER: Suggestions are welcome.
"I am not mad, no matter what you're implying." - Litalia

GF5 mod with extra quest chain here!  Discover who you are and set up your base.

"Ohhh, no! No, it's so close! So close!" - Blxz, ambushed by an Unbound

Scourge of the Rebellion Scourge of the Rebellion

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Posted 29 July 2016 - 06:01 PM #20 GF5 mod with EXTRA quest chain! More GF5 content!

love what you doing but when i try to download it it dosnt work can u please tell me how thanks

Scourge of the Rebellion Scourge of the Rebellion

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Posted 29 July 2016 - 06:03 PM #21 GF5 mod with EXTRA quest chain! More GF5 content!

http://gamefront.onl.../GF5Origins.rar
it takes me to this website whitch has a large download button that dont work plz help me

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Posted 29 July 2016 - 06:52 PM #22 GF5 mod with EXTRA quest chain! More GF5 content!

Emm... The big orange download button should work.

If you keep trying and it doesn't work (it shows to me that it does work; the mod is just 230KB to 250KB or something similar) tell me and I'll email it to you.
"I am not mad, no matter what you're implying." - Litalia

GF5 mod with extra quest chain here!  Discover who you are and set up your base.

"Ohhh, no! No, it's so close! So close!" - Blxz, ambushed by an Unbound

Alberich Alberich

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Posted 01 August 2016 - 06:05 PM #23 GF5 mod with EXTRA quest chain! More GF5 content!

I'm meandering through....I'll soon be on my way to the fourth clue to the PC's identity (I want to build some more Leadership first before I head that way, since I see it's required to get the full experience).   So far the mod looks discreet and tasteful...and respectful to the original source material.  Which I like.   Also, I like that it doesn't seem designed (so far) to push you towards or against any of the factions...which is in keeping with the spirit of the original, that leaves the moral choices up to the player.

alhoon alhoon

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Posted 01 August 2016 - 06:40 PM #24 GF5 mod with EXTRA quest chain! More GF5 content!

Thank you again for the encouraging words. I hope you like it.
Well... I don't push towards or against any of the factions in that mod. As in, you get incentives to join the Rebels or the Shapers.
Yet, this mod pushes towards the player remaining unaligned till at least the mid-game.
And to progress down the quest lines, you will need to align with one or the other side. The quest lines are optional though.


HOWEVER: Much of the mod centers around your laboratory and the research \ experiments you do to improve Shaping. Hence, while there's nothing stopping you from becoming a Trakovite, it would be weird to be one while going in Shaping-mad-rush for research.
Yet, I said "well, I went Trakovite while upturning everything, even murdering people, to find cannisters in order to make stronger tier 5 creations" So yes, technically you CAN join the Trakovites while piling up insane amounts of Shaping power.

(In the one I'm making now, I'm heavily pushing towards rebels mainly because I don't want to write the same scripts TWICE. I'll put a "betray the rebels" clause though).
"I am not mad, no matter what you're implying." - Litalia

GF5 mod with extra quest chain here!  Discover who you are and set up your base.

"Ohhh, no! No, it's so close! So close!" - Blxz, ambushed by an Unbound

alhoon alhoon

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Posted 01 August 2016 - 06:51 PM #25 GF5 mod with EXTRA quest chain! More GF5 content!

Oh, and if I may ask... do you know how many research notes you have found so far?
"I am not mad, no matter what you're implying." - Litalia

GF5 mod with extra quest chain here!  Discover who you are and set up your base.

"Ohhh, no! No, it's so close! So close!" - Blxz, ambushed by an Unbound

Alberich Alberich

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Posted 01 August 2016 - 07:55 PM #26 GF5 mod with EXTRA quest chain! More GF5 content!

I was leaving them alone for a long time...now I am collecting them for Alexie.  Do I need to collect them for any other purpose?

alhoon alhoon

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Posted 02 August 2016 - 01:01 AM #27 GF5 mod with EXTRA quest chain! More GF5 content!

Ah... if you decide to build your laboratory, you'll definitely need them for research. That's how research is counted.

Quote

- Your Research potential is (mainly) increased with research notes that you study in your laboratory.

You COULD buy them back from Alexie, but she's much harder to convince to sell them back and will sell you back less notes than you sold her for very high price. Selling her 6-10 notes to complete her quests won't terribly affect you, but to put in Drayk terms: You could have used those notes to get a +1 to +2 to your mid-tier creation stats.
And Improving your Shaping skills is not in my opinion the best you can get out of research. There are two fairly large quest chains available to spice the mid-to-end game aside of "gather research notes => increase shaping"
"I am not mad, no matter what you're implying." - Litalia

GF5 mod with extra quest chain here!  Discover who you are and set up your base.

"Ohhh, no! No, it's so close! So close!" - Blxz, ambushed by an Unbound

Alberich Alberich

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Posted 06 August 2016 - 05:36 AM #28 GF5 mod with EXTRA quest chain! More GF5 content!

Still about where I was...I gave Alexie her bare minimum number of books to get the Drayk lessons, but based on what you tell me, have otherwise been saving notes for when I make the lab.  Is the opportunity to do this going to pop up in natural sequence if I keep following the clues to my own past, or is there something on the side I'll have to do?

A suggestion:
If you want the mod to be playable without an outside “guide,” and also to be user-friendly for people who play occasionally instead of in a marathon, maybe you could add a few words to the dialogue of Alexie and others who reward you for shaper notes?   E.g., she might say, “If you bring me [six] more of these, I have an extra reward for you…”  (Don’t have time to write cleverer dialogue right now), together with some kind of narrators’ warning… “You reflect that you yourself could make good use of these notes if you had a laboratory of your own.  Perhaps you’ll find the means to do that in your travels.”    

Btw, do “special item” shaper notes (like the ones that are supposed to be hidden in the ruins with the unbound)…are these useful in the lab, or might I as well turn them in for rewards when I get them?

Great mod so far!

alhoon alhoon

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Posted 06 August 2016 - 06:12 AM #29 GF5 mod with EXTRA quest chain! More GF5 content!

Laboratory: Well, there will be a clue about where you could set up your lab at the end of the identity quest... if you pick the right answer.
But the area that is to be converted to your lab requires you to have done certain rebel quests. The reasoning for this from my part is:
If you're completely aligned with the Shapers you agree with them that Shaping should be regulated and that's dangerous. Hence you shouldn't go and set up secret labs.

Alexie and hints about research notes:
One thing I want to avoid, is change the material that's already in the game.
To my defense I put a " >> READ THEM ALL, THEY ARE ALL IMPORTANT << " in the clarifications, and explained that research notes are needed in the clarifications.
(And yes, they are all important ;) )

Quote

Btw, do “special item” shaper notes (like the ones that are supposed to be hidden in the ruins with the unbound)…are these useful in the lab, or might I as well turn them in for rewards when I get them?


Turn them in! Haven't thought of them. Now that you mention it, I will in a future update make them useful in the lab. Thanks for that. If there are more, please tell me.
"I am not mad, no matter what you're implying." - Litalia

GF5 mod with extra quest chain here!  Discover who you are and set up your base.

"Ohhh, no! No, it's so close! So close!" - Blxz, ambushed by an Unbound

Alberich Alberich

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Posted 06 August 2016 - 03:42 PM #30 GF5 mod with EXTRA quest chain! More GF5 content!

It's your mod, in the end, but I don't see it that way...consider how Blxz used canisters left and right, but ended up as a Shaper and a Taygenite Shaper at that.  It's always tempting in war to say, "Yes, I agree, this is and should be the Law of War...but if I just violate it myself, just a little bit, I can win."  


And there are PC’s who don’t exactly line up with one of the factions but have to choose one…for example, I myself was opposed to canisters, geneforges, and self shaping, but not so much to creating creatures…and ended up as a semi-reluctant Trakovite, but one who didn’t hesitate to make forbidden Drayks in pursuit of a Better Tomorrow.
(I might easily have justified allying with Alwan on the same grounds; yet gone ahead with forbidden creations to get where I was going.)

alhoon alhoon

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Posted 06 August 2016 - 06:18 PM #31 GF5 mod with EXTRA quest chain! More GF5 content!

I feel you. But... it would be too much work to add a shaper-accessible lab. Keep in mind that you can align with the Shapers in the mod, in which case the Rebels go after your lab. It's just that you can't let's say "unlock" the location for the lab unless you do a specific rebel quest. I have added quests after that where you can go against the rebels in the mod.


I could tell you where you start the lab and that would probably answer your questions of why it needs to be "unlocked" by a rebel quest. After you finish the identity quest if you have trouble guessing\finding where the location is, ask and I'll tell you.
"I am not mad, no matter what you're implying." - Litalia

GF5 mod with extra quest chain here!  Discover who you are and set up your base.

"Ohhh, no! No, it's so close! So close!" - Blxz, ambushed by an Unbound

Alberich Alberich

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Posted 07 August 2016 - 02:34 PM #32 GF5 mod with EXTRA quest chain! More GF5 content!

I'm through it now -- at least, I got the answer (nice surprise), got some skill boosts, and didn't get any pointers to further clues.  I'm playing as an Astoria supporter this time (though I did a few Trakovite quests).  So, if I'm out of the running for the research lab, feel free to tell me whatever you would like about it!

alhoon alhoon

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Posted 07 August 2016 - 04:15 PM #33 GF5 mod with EXTRA quest chain! More GF5 content!

Nah you are in, the "Rebel" quest is actually in the Astoria quest chain too. :)

Did the mod inject some extra interest in a game you've already seen? Was the reward worth the effort?


PS. If you chose the dialogue option that is more or less a decision by your character to NOT pursue power because of the dangers... that's the "real" Trakovite option that we discussed earlier. You can be a "not-pure" Trakovite as Litalia calls herself surrounding herself in a dozen creations and go for the power. :) You can finish the game as a "not pure" trakovite and still explore all the quests in the research chain.


If you actually go for the lab and the power it provides I would suggest putting 8-10 notes to unlock all the options and check them (to see what the research quests are about) before doing research.
"I am not mad, no matter what you're implying." - Litalia

GF5 mod with extra quest chain here!  Discover who you are and set up your base.

"Ohhh, no! No, it's so close! So close!" - Blxz, ambushed by an Unbound

Alberich Alberich

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Posted 29 August 2016 - 06:56 PM #34 GF5 mod with EXTRA quest chain! More GF5 content!

A week or two back, I played Alhoon’s “shaper/lifecrafter” GF5 mod.   It was excellent.   My brief review:


As you can see from the thread, the mod has two main features.  #1, it allows the player to follow a quest chain to find out who he really is.  #2, it allows him to enhance his shaping abilities.   The overall effect is like a good sauce or condiment: it complements the flavor of the original game, but does not fundamentally change it.  So, if you’ve just finished your first playthrough, I don’t recommend running right back to the beginning just to see the mod.   But if, like me, you haven’t played the game for a few years, this mod makes a fun tweak to the experience.


The story of the PC’s origin is spread across multiple encounters that carry him around the game world, and so prevent the reveal from coming too soon.  It was well written and an entertaining theory, and as far as I can tell it fits the facts we know.  (An extreme nitpicker-nerd might find an inconsistency I missed, but for the level of reality this game shows, I liked it just fine.)  The player doesn’t have to accept the story as true, but it won’t hurt him if he does.   The game didn’t allow Alhoon to modify the ending scripts, so don’t be disappointed if the game ending still tells you you don’t know who you are.  You’ll know you do.


The shaping enhancement doesn’t come until fairly late in the game and relies on at least one major anti-Shaper quest being fulfilled, though I believe Alhoon may be modifying future versions to allow this option to more loyal players via a different pathway.  It relies on shaper notes—so save them—but if you sell the notes as quest items, you can buy them back (at a sizable markup) so as to use them for shaping enhancement.  Even played straight it can give you a considerable boost in power; and if you go crazy (crazier than I went playing through), there’s a quest I didn’t try that can take you even further.  


The parts I played never made the game harder; they simply gave you options to make yourself more powerful if you chose to do so.  Since I was playing on Normal difficulty, it didn’t frustrate me at all.  I note that setting up the extra shaping option also gives you a sometime source of endless fights, but with the extra power and the relative ease of the game by the time I got there I didn’t see any point in grinding for higher levels.    


I made a few recommendations to smooth the mechanics, and to make it harder for a “casual” player to go off the rails.   But even as I played it, it was a fun mod and a good enhancer for a replay, especially if that replay comes long after your last playthrough.

alhoon alhoon

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Posted 29 August 2016 - 08:20 PM #35 GF5 mod with EXTRA quest chain! More GF5 content!

Thank you for the kind words Alberich, and for the beta-testing. :)
"I am not mad, no matter what you're implying." - Litalia

GF5 mod with extra quest chain here!  Discover who you are and set up your base.

"Ohhh, no! No, it's so close! So close!" - Blxz, ambushed by an Unbound





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