Jump to content


Geneforge 3 - Hints (without spoilers) and changes from GF5?


  • Please log in to reply
242 replies to this topic
alhoon alhoon

Sorcerer

  • Member
    • Member ID: 16,946
  • 685 posts

Posted 06 October 2015 - 09:49 AM #1 Geneforge 3 - Hints (without spoilers) and changes from GF5?

Hi all! I'll soon start GF3 playing a shaper. I've finished GF4 and GF5. So I'd like to see how the rebellion started etc.

First, I would kindly like to ask people to refrain from giving me spoilers about GF3.
Then I would like to inform people that I will give spoilers as I play the game.
What I know is that the rebellion will start, that Litalia, Akari Blaze and Ghaldring are there and I'll see how Greta the great general of the rebels and Alwan the scourge of the rebellion started out. :)




Now, I would like to ask what's different gameplay-wise from GF3 to GF5, for playing the shaper class.
Are there artifacts? Magic anvils to make them? I already saw that each item in the inventory adds weight ( :( )
I also heard that unlike GF4-5, an attack takes 5 action points.

Anyway, to precise questions:
- Are there items that give a significant boost to mechanics and leadership, or I need to invest to them more?
- Which creations are good, which are bad and which are OK?
- Limit is 6 cannisters before you get over the limit, correct?
- Are there books, like in GF5 to train you to stuff, or it's just trainers and cannisters?
- How long is the game compared to GF5? (Took me about 80 hours to finish it)
- What level should I be about when finishing it? I was about lvl 36-37 when finished GF4 and lvl 48 when I finished GF5.
- Is it possible to experience both Shaper and Rebel endings without replaying half the game?
- How easy\hard the game is? I had no problems with the "normal" difficulty of GF4 and GF5. Not boring, not frustrating for the most part.
- Is it really possible to end the game with very few fights? Has anyone done it?
"I am not mad, no matter what you're implying." - Litalia

GF5 mod with extra quest chain here!  Discover who you are and set up your base.

"Ohhh, no! No, it's so close! So close!" - Blxz, ambushed by an Unbound

Nim Nim

Shaman

  • Member
    • Member ID: 6,802
  • 279 posts

Posted 06 October 2015 - 10:31 AM #2 Geneforge 3 - Hints (without spoilers) and changes from GF5?

- Are there items that give a significant boost to mechanics and leadership, or I need to invest to them more?
  You can get 9 mech from items, 2 canisters, max you'll ever need is 20. 7 leadership from items I think ?

- Is it possible to experience both Shaper and Rebel endings without replaying half the game?
Ending Dhonal pro-shaper gives you another shot at joining the rebels on the fourth isle. So you would have to replay about 1,5 isles to see both endings. Doing Dhonal pro-rebel locks you into their way.

Triumph Triumph

Wrapped in Light

  • Global Moderator
    • Member ID: 6,248
  • 3,015 posts

Posted 06 October 2015 - 12:48 PM #3 Geneforge 3 - Hints (without spoilers) and changes from GF5?

"Are there items that give a significant boost to mechanics and leadership, or I need to invest to them more?" There are items that boost Lead / Mech. I'm not sure what you mean by "significant" boost; expect to invest in the similarly to what you did in G5. There is one optional area that requires 20 Mechanics, everything else is lower (I believe the next highest you need is 14 Mech.). I believe the highest Leadership you can ever need is 16.

"Which creations are good, which are bad and which are OK?" Use Vlish. One quirk of the game mechanics in G3 is that Vlish are awesomely powerful. Start investing in your magic shaping from the beginning of the game, get the ability to make Vlish on the 2nd Island, create seven of them, and never look back. G3 is a game where making early Vlish and leveling them up the rest of the game WILL be rewarded (NOT necessarily investing essence in them, just getting automatically bonuses they gain from levels). Plenty of other creations are fine; you can do powerful stuff with them too; BUT the mechanically optimal approach is create an army of Vlish.

"Limit is 6 cannisters before you get over the limit, correct?" I do not recall the answer to this.

"Are there books, like in GF5 to train you to stuff, or it's just trainers and cannisters?" You'll learn shaping / spells from trainers and canisters in G3.

"How long is the game compared to GF5? (Took me about 80 hours to finish it)" G3 is a smaller game in terms of raw number of zones.

"What level should I be about when finishing it? I was about lvl 36-37 when finished GF4 and lvl 48 when I finished GF5." I don't remember what levels I was, but it doesn't really matter. Do as much stuff as you can and you'll reach a high enough level. :p

"Is it possible to experience both Shaper and Rebel endings without replaying half the game?" As Nim said, on Dhonal's Isle, near the end of that island, you'll have the chance to make a big choice to either aid the rebels or fight with the shapers. If you aid the rebels at that point, you are locked in. If you stand with the shapers, you keep your options open. The next island, Gull Island, is your last chance to choose sides; your actions there will determine your endgame; when you set sail from Gull Island for the last island, you will be locked in as either a rebel or a shaper.

"How easy\hard the game is? I had no problems with the "normal" difficulty of GF4 and GF5. Not boring, not frustrating for the most part." Personally, I found G4 harder than G3, FWIW.

"Is it really possible to end the game with very few fights? Has anyone done it?" It is totally possible. I got as far as Dhonal's Isle before I got distracted by other things, but based on my previous play-throughs I was confident I could chart out a course as a pacifist to the endgame.

"Dikiyoba didn't know what to say for your negatives, Triumph. Dikiyoba supposes you must just be that awesome." - Dikiyoba
"Triumph == Santa Claus? This explains... nothing." - Dintiradan
"Per usual, Triumph said it better." - Slarty


alhoon alhoon

Sorcerer

  • Member
    • Member ID: 16,946
  • 685 posts

Posted 06 October 2015 - 03:37 PM #4 Geneforge 3 - Hints (without spoilers) and changes from GF5?

Vlish? :/

Meh, I don't like them at all. I consider them ... ugly.
I'll go for 5 creations. 1 will be a Cryora, 1 will be a drayk\drakon and 1 will be a gazer. So at first I'll have cryora\4 vlish and then reduce them as I get Drayks and gazer
"I am not mad, no matter what you're implying." - Litalia

GF5 mod with extra quest chain here!  Discover who you are and set up your base.

"Ohhh, no! No, it's so close! So close!" - Blxz, ambushed by an Unbound

Triumph Triumph

Wrapped in Light

  • Global Moderator
    • Member ID: 6,248
  • 3,015 posts

Posted 06 October 2015 - 04:23 PM #5 Geneforge 3 - Hints (without spoilers) and changes from GF5?

You didn't ask "Which creations will I personally find most aesthetically pleasing?" You asked which ones were good. :p

The cryoa will be fine when you get it but really isn't worth it as a long-term plan, and probably won't pull its weight by the endgame. You'll do all right with whatever upper-tier creations you settle on, though.

"Dikiyoba didn't know what to say for your negatives, Triumph. Dikiyoba supposes you must just be that awesome." - Dikiyoba
"Triumph == Santa Claus? This explains... nothing." - Dintiradan
"Per usual, Triumph said it better." - Slarty


alhoon alhoon

Sorcerer

  • Member
    • Member ID: 16,946
  • 685 posts

Posted 06 October 2015 - 05:06 PM #6 Geneforge 3 - Hints (without spoilers) and changes from GF5?

They never pull their weight by the endgame... :( Although they have such high dex that enemies miss a lot, it doesn't make up for their lack of health and damage. BUT... I keep them for the cheap, cold damage. Sure, I could use Cryodrayks but they were more expensive. So, a high level Cryora's breath would do a lot of damage to a drakon (magic resistant, high armor, fire resistant) or drayk in GF4 and GF5.

Thank you for the answer though, even if it was "bad news".

Also, is there a way to "import" GF4 and GF5 Cryora graphics to GF3?
"I am not mad, no matter what you're implying." - Litalia

GF5 mod with extra quest chain here!  Discover who you are and set up your base.

"Ohhh, no! No, it's so close! So close!" - Blxz, ambushed by an Unbound

Agitproprioception Agitproprioception

The Demon of Good Taste

  • Global Moderator
    • Member ID: 223
  • 13,777 posts

Posted 06 October 2015 - 05:32 PM #7 Geneforge 3 - Hints (without spoilers) and changes from GF5?

Triumph wasn't exaggerating.  Vlish really are head and shoulders above most other creations in G3.  And once you account for the extra levels they can gain (because you can make them earlier) they are actually head and shoulders above most 3rd and 4th tier creations, even without accounting for their vastly cheaper essence cost.
"I, for one, prefer to believe that the forums are dead and that Lilith, Slarty, and I are all ghosts haunting the forum." -- Triumph

"I think we all have days where we feel like a Displacer Iguana." -- Slarty

ThricebornPhoenix ThricebornPhoenix

Mercenary

  • Member
    • Member ID: 6,597
  • 86 posts

Posted 06 October 2015 - 05:34 PM #8 Geneforge 3 - Hints (without spoilers) and changes from GF5?

Cryoas have a great ranged attack - good multiplier, above average accuracy, chance to stun, few enemies resist it. You just need to keep other creations between them and Rotghroths, maybe cast Augmentation on them for particularly tough battles. You can easily keep a Cryoa or three to the end of the game.
"I started imagining a world in which we replaced the phrase 'politically correct' wherever we could with 'treating other people with respect', and it made me smile.

You should try it. It’s peculiarly enlightening." - Neil Gaiman

alhoon alhoon

Sorcerer

  • Member
    • Member ID: 16,946
  • 685 posts

Posted 07 October 2015 - 11:16 AM #9 Geneforge 3 - Hints (without spoilers) and changes from GF5?

The beginning:
I think GF3 had the best and most moving beginning. With your dead classmates that the game give you some background info on. These are not shapers, these are young people that aspired to be shapers and the game makes effort to give some personality to the dead bodies you loot.

Litalia's attack on the school is a terrible thing. I may go pro-shaper in this game.
"I am not mad, no matter what you're implying." - Litalia

GF5 mod with extra quest chain here!  Discover who you are and set up your base.

"Ohhh, no! No, it's so close! So close!" - Blxz, ambushed by an Unbound

Agitproprioception Agitproprioception

The Demon of Good Taste

  • Global Moderator
    • Member ID: 223
  • 13,777 posts

Posted 07 October 2015 - 11:47 AM #10 Geneforge 3 - Hints (without spoilers) and changes from GF5?

Yeah, the rebels don't come off seeming too great in G3.

Unfortunately, neither do the shapers.
"I, for one, prefer to believe that the forums are dead and that Lilith, Slarty, and I are all ghosts haunting the forum." -- Triumph

"I think we all have days where we feel like a Displacer Iguana." -- Slarty

Triumph Triumph

Wrapped in Light

  • Global Moderator
    • Member ID: 6,248
  • 3,015 posts

Posted 07 October 2015 - 11:58 AM #11 Geneforge 3 - Hints (without spoilers) and changes from GF5?

Litalia: "I am heartless and unlikable!" :mad:
Rahul: "Nay! I am more heartless and unlikable than you!" :angry:
Litalia: "Impossible! I am the mostest heartless and unlikable! By the way, look at this oppressed servile meant to inspire pity!" :mad:
Rahul: "I have taken cruelty to levels you can't imagine! Also, look, pathetic refugees fleeing rebel barbarity!" :angry:
Litalia: "Thus, Shaper, you can clearly not choose the faction in front of me!" :whistle:
Rahul: "Obviously, Shaper, you can clearly not choose the faction in front of me!" :whistle:
Shaper: "Why isn't there a kill-everyone option? Help me, Aodare, you're my only hope!" :o

"Dikiyoba didn't know what to say for your negatives, Triumph. Dikiyoba supposes you must just be that awesome." - Dikiyoba
"Triumph == Santa Claus? This explains... nothing." - Dintiradan
"Per usual, Triumph said it better." - Slarty


Agitproprioception Agitproprioception

The Demon of Good Taste

  • Global Moderator
    • Member ID: 223
  • 13,777 posts

Posted 07 October 2015 - 12:20 PM #12 Geneforge 3 - Hints (without spoilers) and changes from GF5?

I don't remember Rahul being particularly heartless.  Was he?  My memory places him as sort of banal and unaware and accustomed to the evils of his culture.  Not that the Shapers look great at that point, but a lot less crazy than Litalia.  It's really when you get to Agatha and see Khyryk's dilemma that they really go down the tubes.

It also really says something that Alwan and Greta are the characters people remember most from G3.  The faction leaders are not only unattractive ethically, they're boring.  Not an accusation that could easily be levelled against the Drayks, or Barzahl.
"I, for one, prefer to believe that the forums are dead and that Lilith, Slarty, and I are all ghosts haunting the forum." -- Triumph

"I think we all have days where we feel like a Displacer Iguana." -- Slarty

Agitproprioception Agitproprioception

The Demon of Good Taste

  • Global Moderator
    • Member ID: 223
  • 13,777 posts

Posted 07 October 2015 - 12:21 PM #13 Geneforge 3 - Hints (without spoilers) and changes from GF5?

Also, it is my heartfelt wish that someone rewrites Triumph's conversation around the topic of muffins.
"I, for one, prefer to believe that the forums are dead and that Lilith, Slarty, and I are all ghosts haunting the forum." -- Triumph

"I think we all have days where we feel like a Displacer Iguana." -- Slarty

Triumph Triumph

Wrapped in Light

  • Global Moderator
    • Member ID: 6,248
  • 3,015 posts

Posted 07 October 2015 - 12:30 PM #14 Geneforge 3 - Hints (without spoilers) and changes from GF5?

Rahul himself doesn't come across as that villainous, no. I was just using him and Litalia as prominent figures who could be stand-ins for their entire factions. There are a number of other shapers in G3 who act more brutal or corrupt (such as the aforementioned Agatha), but they aren't quite as prominent as Rahul.

"Dikiyoba didn't know what to say for your negatives, Triumph. Dikiyoba supposes you must just be that awesome." - Dikiyoba
"Triumph == Santa Claus? This explains... nothing." - Dintiradan
"Per usual, Triumph said it better." - Slarty


Triumph Triumph

Wrapped in Light

  • Global Moderator
    • Member ID: 6,248
  • 3,015 posts

Posted 07 October 2015 - 12:42 PM #15 Geneforge 3 - Hints (without spoilers) and changes from GF5?

I always found it annoying that the single best way to sell me on the rebel side would have been to
Spoiler

On the other hand, even while the rebels are trying as hard as possible to make the shapers look reasonable, you keep meeting thuggish shapers who talk about how they kick puppies serviles for fun. There are plenty of more reasonable shapers
Spoiler
as well as ordinary humans fighting on the shaper side. But then you have people like the creepy inquisition lady in the Inner Keep, and Agatha, and Chadwick, to name a few.

"Dikiyoba didn't know what to say for your negatives, Triumph. Dikiyoba supposes you must just be that awesome." - Dikiyoba
"Triumph == Santa Claus? This explains... nothing." - Dintiradan
"Per usual, Triumph said it better." - Slarty


Agitproprioception Agitproprioception

The Demon of Good Taste

  • Global Moderator
    • Member ID: 223
  • 13,777 posts

Posted 07 October 2015 - 12:51 PM #16 Geneforge 3 - Hints (without spoilers) and changes from GF5?

Khyryk is the nail in the coffin, though, because his clear explanation of the dilemma he faces in deciding how to live his life is what makes it clear that there is no going back to the era of respectable, competent loyalists like Shanti and Aodare.
"I, for one, prefer to believe that the forums are dead and that Lilith, Slarty, and I are all ghosts haunting the forum." -- Triumph

"I think we all have days where we feel like a Displacer Iguana." -- Slarty

Triumph Triumph

Wrapped in Light

  • Global Moderator
    • Member ID: 6,248
  • 3,015 posts

Posted 07 October 2015 - 12:57 PM #17 Geneforge 3 - Hints (without spoilers) and changes from GF5?

Tangent, now that I'm reminiscing about G3: G3 is one of the games where I find it most unreasonable that the PC can make any difference. In G1, I attribute the PC's meteoric rise to power to the potency of original Sucia canisters; each level-up is the power of the canisters slowly continuing to enhance me. In G4, I can imagine the player's ability to level-up and grow powerful so quickly is factor of the Geneforge; the power is there, the PC just grows into the ability to call upon it (you've also got the PC's double-agent status to help explain your unique level of influence). In G5, you've got the Geneforge to help explain things but also narrative that PC was once a great power and is now merely rediscovering or regaining that strength. And in all three cases, the player's escalating power helps justify why the PC is able to influence events. In G2, it is harder to justify the PC's mechanical growth, but I can at least imagine how there could have been a balance of power among the factions so delicate, so precarious, that the introduction of one more Shaper, even if one that was still in training, could have been the proverbial camel-abusing, back-breaking straw. G3, though? A setting where both shapers and drakons seem to be relatively abundant compared to the size of the region? There's no rationalization I can devise for why all these powerful shapers and mighty drakons would choose to rely on a lowly student for strategically important missions, or why the PC would be capable of performing such missions.

"Dikiyoba didn't know what to say for your negatives, Triumph. Dikiyoba supposes you must just be that awesome." - Dikiyoba
"Triumph == Santa Claus? This explains... nothing." - Dintiradan
"Per usual, Triumph said it better." - Slarty


Agitproprioception Agitproprioception

The Demon of Good Taste

  • Global Moderator
    • Member ID: 223
  • 13,777 posts

Posted 07 October 2015 - 01:13 PM #18 Geneforge 3 - Hints (without spoilers) and changes from GF5?

Also, in G1 and G2, the PC had quite a bit of advanced shaper training dedicated not to shaping, but to learning,  One of the intros talks about that, and IIRC the G2 PC was actually further along in training than the G1 PC?  But the G3 PC is significantly earlier in her shaping career, so that explanation doesn't help much at all.
"I, for one, prefer to believe that the forums are dead and that Lilith, Slarty, and I are all ghosts haunting the forum." -- Triumph

"I think we all have days where we feel like a Displacer Iguana." -- Slarty

Triumph Triumph

Wrapped in Light

  • Global Moderator
    • Member ID: 6,248
  • 3,015 posts

Posted 07 October 2015 - 01:16 PM #19 Geneforge 3 - Hints (without spoilers) and changes from GF5?

Yeah, that matches my recollection that the G2 PC was the most advanced in training of the various PCs, followed by the G1 PC.

"Dikiyoba didn't know what to say for your negatives, Triumph. Dikiyoba supposes you must just be that awesome." - Dikiyoba
"Triumph == Santa Claus? This explains... nothing." - Dintiradan
"Per usual, Triumph said it better." - Slarty


alhoon alhoon

Sorcerer

  • Member
    • Member ID: 16,946
  • 685 posts

Posted 07 October 2015 - 05:21 PM #20 Geneforge 3 - Hints (without spoilers) and changes from GF5?

Quote

Every once in a while, you have heard rumors of different sorts of serviles, rogue serviles, who are smart, disobedient, and even rebellious. You've always dismissed those rumors as nonsense.
All of the Shapers' creations are made to happily serve the Shapers. How could it be otherwise?

LOOOOOL
Hillarious.

GF3 beginning is certainly the best from GF3-5. The propaganda (See above), my shock of finding the dead novices etc.
Now, if I didn't have to kill worms but actually was a bit more powerful... :(
"I am not mad, no matter what you're implying." - Litalia

GF5 mod with extra quest chain here!  Discover who you are and set up your base.

"Ohhh, no! No, it's so close! So close!" - Blxz, ambushed by an Unbound

Agitproprioception Agitproprioception

The Demon of Good Taste

  • Global Moderator
    • Member ID: 223
  • 13,777 posts

Posted 07 October 2015 - 08:48 PM #21 Geneforge 3 - Hints (without spoilers) and changes from GF5?

View Postalhoon, on 07 October 2015 - 05:21 PM, said:

GF3 beginning is certainly the best from GF3-5.
Well, there's a first time to hear everything...
"I, for one, prefer to believe that the forums are dead and that Lilith, Slarty, and I are all ghosts haunting the forum." -- Triumph

"I think we all have days where we feel like a Displacer Iguana." -- Slarty

alhoon alhoon

Sorcerer

  • Member
    • Member ID: 16,946
  • 685 posts

Posted 08 October 2015 - 08:57 AM #22 Geneforge 3 - Hints (without spoilers) and changes from GF5?

Hmmm? Did you prefer the openings of the other games? Why if I may ask so?
"I am not mad, no matter what you're implying." - Litalia

GF5 mod with extra quest chain here!  Discover who you are and set up your base.

"Ohhh, no! No, it's so close! So close!" - Blxz, ambushed by an Unbound

Triumph Triumph

Wrapped in Light

  • Global Moderator
    • Member ID: 6,248
  • 3,015 posts

Posted 08 October 2015 - 09:15 AM #23 Geneforge 3 - Hints (without spoilers) and changes from GF5?

Actually, I'm pretty sure I've seen other people express appreciation for G3's opening, so I don't think you're alone. G1 does by far the best job of setting up a sense of mystery and intrigue that drew me in to wanting to explore. It is the least action-packed opening, but also the most atmospheric, more like stepping into a mystery novel than into a war movie. It is easily the best opening in the series, in my opinion. G2 did a good job of setting you up with a mentor figure you could respect, then quickly sprang on you a big reveal plus the mentor's disappearance in order to draw you further in. Similar to G1, it eases you in to the story with a rising sense of mystery rather a "BOOM ACTION HERO TIME!" approach. G4 has a fairly intense opening where you get the sense of barely escaping with your life and then promptly being thrown in a desperate war situation. In being a more action / conflict-heavy intro, it is more G3 than G1/G2, but I think it manages to feel more intense and dangerous. G5...meh. I think I'd rate G5 as having the least interesting opening for the series. I'd rate G1 and G2 definitely better than G3's opening, and G4 as probably better but close.

"Dikiyoba didn't know what to say for your negatives, Triumph. Dikiyoba supposes you must just be that awesome." - Dikiyoba
"Triumph == Santa Claus? This explains... nothing." - Dintiradan
"Per usual, Triumph said it better." - Slarty


Agitproprioception Agitproprioception

The Demon of Good Taste

  • Global Moderator
    • Member ID: 223
  • 13,777 posts

Posted 08 October 2015 - 09:27 AM #24 Geneforge 3 - Hints (without spoilers) and changes from GF5?

Playing the games in order as they came out, G3's opening is at a disadvantage.  G1's opening, while very undynamic, introduced the entire Geneforge world, and there was a sense of mystery and exploration.  G2's opening in many ways felt like a rehash: once again you had a shaping student realizing that everything was not as he expected.  However, there were a ton of game and mechanics changes from G1 that made things feel fresh.  G2's opening also revolved around Shanti, possibly the most positively received character in the entire franchise.

Enter G3.  It's not that the writing or the staging was worse, it's that we were now seeing the exact same opening framework -- a shaping student realizes that everything is not as he expected -- for the third time.  The attack on the school didn't feel very urgent because you could proceed at your own pace.  Where Shanti was opinionated and interesting, Alwan and Greta were both incredibly tentative, and Master Hoge had barely anything to say at all.  When Litalia shows up, she's an interesting idea but she's pretty cardboard in G3.  And the early zones played out in exactly the same way as the early zones of G1 and G2 -- and this time, there were almost no mechanics changes -- except the followers of the popular Awakened viewpoint were no longer even given a conversation option that expressed their opinion.  Despite the cutscenes, it just didn't feel fresh.

G4 was the opposite.  A dynamic opening where you are literally racing against death; beginning as a jaded rebel rather than a naive shaping student; playing a class you've never seen before; immediately faced with a brand new (and powerful) creation type; given access to a Geneforge, for the first time since G1, right away.  The early zones are completely different.  Greta is a much more interesting character, too.  It was completely fresh.

G5, while it got mixed reviews overall, certainly had a unique and emotional opening, with your enslavement to Rawal in the Foundry.  Also, your character history -- as an apparently powerful, mysterious, amnesiac -- is completely different from the "young promising shaper" of G1-3 and the "young promising rebel" of G4.  And in contrast to the previous two games, it gave you a ton of options -- in conversation options, in character classes, in creations, and even in where to go.

Maybe this helps explain my perspective?  I can see how it might be different if you played the games in a different order.  But it's really the G3/G4 comparison that seems most foreign to me -- for me, G3's opening seems so predictable, G4's so dynamic.
"I, for one, prefer to believe that the forums are dead and that Lilith, Slarty, and I are all ghosts haunting the forum." -- Triumph

"I think we all have days where we feel like a Displacer Iguana." -- Slarty

alhoon alhoon

Sorcerer

  • Member
    • Member ID: 16,946
  • 685 posts

Posted 08 October 2015 - 10:14 AM #25 Geneforge 3 - Hints (without spoilers) and changes from GF5?

It sure explains your perspective and I would probably feel the same... if I played GF1 or GF2. For me, even the notion of shaper student is new. For the first time EVER I'm not a freak, but a shaper-wannabe! For the first time ever I see things like "Attack on shapers? That can't be possible."


NOT being given access to a geneforge yet also feels fresh.
I hope I find one soon, cause my character feels the weakest starting character I had.

I wonder if, by a miracle, for the first time in over 150 hours of playing Geneforge games, I'll find a shaper tutor that will teach me WITHOUT telling me how much of a freak I am and how many sacred laws I break by existing and how he or she only teaches me because of necessity.
I have grown frustrated with Shapers looking down their nose on me at the very least for not being part of their sacred above-all order.
Moseh, in GF4, literally impaled in machines powered by drawing the life out of people or creations... called ME a freak.
This time, I can look at lifecrafters in the face and tell them they are the freaks! :) I can give back some of the abuse I've endured by shapers for over 150 hours!

When the Servant mind called me "powerful shaper" (LOL) and told me how the ungrateful rogues we brought to power turned upon us I wanted to kiss the screen. :)
"I am not mad, no matter what you're implying." - Litalia

GF5 mod with extra quest chain here!  Discover who you are and set up your base.

"Ohhh, no! No, it's so close! So close!" - Blxz, ambushed by an Unbound

Agitproprioception Agitproprioception

The Demon of Good Taste

  • Global Moderator
    • Member ID: 223
  • 13,777 posts

Posted 08 October 2015 - 10:23 AM #26 Geneforge 3 - Hints (without spoilers) and changes from GF5?

Haha, cool :)  I will be really interested to see what your reactions are when you get to G1.  I bet it'll be fascinating!
"I, for one, prefer to believe that the forums are dead and that Lilith, Slarty, and I are all ghosts haunting the forum." -- Triumph

"I think we all have days where we feel like a Displacer Iguana." -- Slarty

alhoon alhoon

Sorcerer

  • Member
    • Member ID: 16,946
  • 685 posts

Posted 08 October 2015 - 12:42 PM #27 Geneforge 3 - Hints (without spoilers) and changes from GF5?

As a note, I want to tell everyone that I give a good report of the "interesting" parts and important NPCs to my sister, that doesn't play these games but asks me about how X did etc. I actually take notes when playing so I can tell her.


While we occasionally do that for movies, the story of the saga is captivating that every part I play, deserves a long facebook \ phone discussion.


My sister is the one demanding I go the shaper route in this game. :) And I usually listen to my big sister.
"I am not mad, no matter what you're implying." - Litalia

GF5 mod with extra quest chain here!  Discover who you are and set up your base.

"Ohhh, no! No, it's so close! So close!" - Blxz, ambushed by an Unbound

Elyssaen Elyssaen

Citizen

  • Member
    • Member ID: 17,099
  • 19 posts

Posted 08 October 2015 - 05:37 PM #28 Geneforge 3 - Hints (without spoilers) and changes from GF5?

View Postalhoon, on 06 October 2015 - 09:49 AM, said:

Hi all! I'll soon start GF3 playing a shaper. I've finished GF4 and GF5. So I'd like to see how the rebellion started etc.

Hey, I love this. This series is pretty old now, but here are two players doing the same thing at about the same time. I played G5 years ago, but in the last month or two have gone G4, G3 and then G2. I'll be moving onto G1 in a bit, if I can resist replaying 5 with some self-applied challenge (probably solo). How far have you got with G3?

Quote

Now, I would like to ask what's different gameplay-wise from GF3 to GF5, for playing the shaper class.
Are there artifacts? Magic anvils to make them? I already saw that each item in the inventory adds weight ( :( )
I also heard that unlike GF4-5, an attack takes 5 action points.

G3 still has artifacts, and they're pretty damn useful. You can craft some really useful ones semi-early (Dhonal's), but you won't have the recipe 'legitimately' until much later. So you might want to consider if you're happy using spoilers to find recipes. It's all here:

http://spiderwebforu...facts-spoilers/

Each item counting to the weight is really frustrating. You might want to consider having item stashes at exit of an area and going back a few times. But if you're playing a Shaper, you could also just say sod it and accept having 2 AP a lot of the time. In a tough fight drop some stuff, but in the easier ones just use your Shaper as a pack horse. I was a Shaper in G3 just recently and that's wat I did.

Needing 5 AP left to attack is really quite the shift. It makes melee-only types a bit weaker. I went with Magic Shaping and was mostly disappointed by my glaahks. I did need them to round off damage types, but the AP shift made them underperform a little compared to my expectations.

Quote

Anyway, to precise questions:
- Are there items that give a significant boost to mechanics and leadership, or I need to invest to them more?
- Which creations are good, which are bad and which are OK?
- Limit is 6 cannisters before you get over the limit, correct?
- Are there books, like in GF5 to train you to stuff, or it's just trainers and cannisters?
- How long is the game compared to GF5? (Took me about 80 hours to finish it)
- What level should I be about when finishing it? I was about lvl 36-37 when finished GF4 and lvl 48 when I finished GF5.
- Is it possible to experience both Shaper and Rebel endings without replaying half the game?
- How easy\hard the game is? I had no problems with the "normal" difficulty of GF4 and GF5. Not boring, not frustrating for the most part.
- Is it really possible to end the game with very few fights? Has anyone done it?

Lead/Mech: there's a Charm, Ring (+2), Vest and Cloak. Plus a +2 Lead shield, +1 Mech shield, +1 Mech necklace. No +2 Mech Gloves in this, I don't think. I don't know exactly what you need to invest when. I think I get to 5/5 ASAP, and it's good to keep a few SP spare to be able to bump either up 2 levels in a 'crisis'. Try to hit 8/8 natural, I think you'll be fine with that.

Vlish are definitely amazing. I went with three vlish and a terror vlish – I needed a different damage type. At that point it's efficient to stick with Magic Shaping. Glaahks are always great, and I found my eventual gazer did even better than the vlish. Battle Shaping seems a bit sub-par really. Fire Shaping's inbetween. Drayks/cryodrayks are solid, and I was surprised to miss the can't-hit-the-broadside-of-a-barn kyshakks.

I think it's more than 6 canisters. I used them fairly freely early on, and got dialogue situations like I'd gone mad… then stopped and was fine. I think the limit increases through the game, and might get as high as around 12 by the end.

All the games are blurring together a bit now but I think G3 has books. Length is maybe 70% of G5, I think.

I ended at level 37 with seven creations and being mostly a completionist.

Re: Shapers/Rebels, not sure. I played a loyalist. However, the 'win conditions' for the two sides, as far as I can tell, aren't exclusive. I actually did both, and was surprised Jeff wrote an ending for it. It's not really the same as getting the experience of playing both sides though.

Can't really say re: easy/hard – think it was about average. And I killed everything so can't say about pacifism.

View PostTriumph, on 07 October 2015 - 12:57 PM, said:

Tangent, now that I'm reminiscing about G3: G3 is one of the games where I find it most unreasonable that the PC can make any difference. In G1, I attribute the PC's meteoric rise to power to the potency of original Sucia canisters; each level-up is the power of the canisters slowly continuing to enhance me. In G4, I can imagine the player's ability to level-up and grow powerful so quickly is factor of the Geneforge; the power is there, the PC just grows into the ability to call upon it (you've also got the PC's double-agent status to help explain your unique level of influence). In G5, you've got the Geneforge to help explain things but also narrative that PC was once a great power and is now merely rediscovering or regaining that strength. And in all three cases, the player's escalating power helps justify why the PC is able to influence events. In G2, it is harder to justify the PC's mechanical growth, but I can at least imagine how there could have been a balance of power among the factions so delicate, so precarious, that the introduction of one more Shaper, even if one that was still in training, could have been the proverbial camel-abusing, back-breaking straw. G3, though? A setting where both shapers and drakons seem to be relatively abundant compared to the size of the region? There's no rationalization I can devise for why all these powerful shapers and mighty drakons would choose to rely on a lowly student for strategically important missions, or why the PC would be capable of performing such missions.

I felt this a bit too, but I also felt that way in G4. I was being asked to deal with Moseh and Monarch at a time when my character was still really just a rookie. The power of those two was breathtaking, and I was being asked to deal with them? Seriously?!

G5 felt most reasonable, I think. G2 next, for me, because Drypeak felt a lot more 'primitive' – I could believe that a talented young Shaper could affect things, because you weren't looking at a giant war with drakons everywhere.

View Postalhoon, on 08 October 2015 - 10:14 AM, said:


It sure explains your perspective and I would probably feel the same... if I played GF1 or GF2. For me, even the notion of shaper student is new. For the first time EVER I'm not a freak, but a shaper-wannabe! For the first time ever I see things like "Attack on shapers? That can't be possible."
Yeah, that was a really interesting change for me too. I love the odd perspective you get playing the games backwards.

View PostSlartibus, on 08 October 2015 - 10:23 AM, said:

Haha, cool :)  I will be really interested to see what your reactions are when you get to G1.  I bet it'll be fascinating!

Oh god I've so been looking forward to getting to G1. Where it all began. And it's surprising how little I've been able to piece together of what happened on Sucia Island from 2–5. I thought it would've all been spoiled but… really, what happened there? Who made the first Geneforge, and why? Were the drayks created there or earlier? Do all serviles have the potential to be intelligent, or was it like a 'disease' spread from Sucia? Jeff couldn't have imagined people playing 5->4->3->2->1, but it works remarkably well.

Hyena of Ice Hyena of Ice

Shaman

  • Member
    • Member ID: 12,969
  • 273 posts

Posted 08 October 2015 - 05:42 PM #29 Geneforge 3 - Hints (without spoilers) and changes from GF5?

Not really spoiler-worthy, but Alwan and Greta's personalities in this game are a bit different.  Alwan is a foul-tempered ass (a lot of players hate Alwan in this game), Greta is a submissive, hypocritical bleeding heart, though she's also pretty mellow compared to later games.

Oh, and Aura of Flames is ridiculously powerful.

Also, don't disarm any of the mines at the Roamer Marsh, whatever you do.

Misc note: There are four teachers at the Academy.  Hoge, and based on the bodies, another shaper, and presumably a Guardian and an Agent (the other two bodies are of warriors, and the only corpse sprites back then were warrior, shaper, and servile)
When you encounter the bodies of your teachers, there are giant rats around, presumably feeding on their corpses.

Note that the timeline given in the game is inconsistent-- it is consistent up to Dhonal Iale, but as soon as you step on Gull Isle, you are given a much shorter one.  It goes like this:
Since the attack on the school, you have been traveling for....
Greenwood Isle: weeks
Harmony Isle: weeks (w. the end of Harmony Isle stating that your adventure will continue for months)
Dhonal Isle: months
Gull isle: weeks
Isle of Spears: ????/N/A/not given

Note: don't read spoiler until you've left Fort Wilton.
Also, true to her G4 personality, we see that Greta
Spoiler


alhoon alhoon

Sorcerer

  • Member
    • Member ID: 16,946
  • 685 posts

Posted 08 October 2015 - 06:05 PM #30 Geneforge 3 - Hints (without spoilers) and changes from GF5?

How far on GF3? I have only be able to play for... an hour or so. :( Just mid-clearing the academy, the zone after the tutorial.
I found Alwan and he seems very much like an inexperienced Alwan to be sincere. He's not powerful as in GF4 nor influential as GF5 so he seethes with rage cause he's as much fanatic as in those games.
I haven't found Greta yet.

I found the teacher, Hoge, and I think he's not just a coward shaper, I think he's rebel.
I think my professor (shaper class), that probably had taught me for years, that my char was so in awe of, that could tell my char by a look proving familiarity... collaborated with rebels to bring in monsters to kill nearly defenseless teenagers he spent years training.

I had the option to attack him, and I had a fyora and Alwan with me. But seriously, I don't know if we could deal with the battle alpha he had at this point, let alone a shaper. A hit by a -worm- at this time, takes half my health!
However, my contempt for him couldn't be greater. Unlike the random rebel lifecrafter, traitor shaper or Drakon, he knew the students personally. He was tasked with our protection. He admits, openly, that the other teachers immediately charged the enemies, no thoughts of retreat and died fighting. You know, the thing you expect from mage mentors in a magocracy that see the future of their sacred organization under mortal danger.

About the comment of "We don't learn much about what happened in Sucia" we also haven't learned much about what happened in the Ashen islands!
Sure, Litalia, Greta and Alwan all have told me "The academy was attacked. We won. Later on, we conquered them all and kicked shapers out." But that is it.
Another shaper in GF4, an old woman purist (like internal shaper police) that called me freak and then shaped me to give me +1 spellcraft (yes, shapers are crazy) told me that the headmaster or something, Rahul fought like a hero etc gave his life to stop the monsters and all. I think she had a crush on that shaper boss.
I have also learned from Drakons that... Ghaldring was there. And Akari Blaze.
And that is it. That is all I've learned about GF3 from the rest. Perhaps I forget a couple of details but I really don't know enough for it to be spoiled.
"I am not mad, no matter what you're implying." - Litalia

GF5 mod with extra quest chain here!  Discover who you are and set up your base.

"Ohhh, no! No, it's so close! So close!" - Blxz, ambushed by an Unbound

Agitproprioception Agitproprioception

The Demon of Good Taste

  • Global Moderator
    • Member ID: 223
  • 13,777 posts

Posted 08 October 2015 - 06:52 PM #31 Geneforge 3 - Hints (without spoilers) and changes from GF5?

Sucia was significant for stuff unique to Sucia.  The Ashen Isles just happened to be where some stuff happened.
"I, for one, prefer to believe that the forums are dead and that Lilith, Slarty, and I are all ghosts haunting the forum." -- Triumph

"I think we all have days where we feel like a Displacer Iguana." -- Slarty

alhoon alhoon

Sorcerer

  • Member
    • Member ID: 16,946
  • 685 posts

Posted 09 October 2015 - 09:49 AM #32 Geneforge 3 - Hints (without spoilers) and changes from GF5?

I met Litalia! :)
She's as insane as I remember her to be, and as arrogant and rebellious as in GF4. Also, having played GF4 I know realize why GF4 made such a fuss about her efforts to smile as a human.
Her introduction, after she paralyzes a novice shaper, a novice guardian and a weak fyora, while surrounded by 2 Ghalks, 2 Battle Alphas and a Drayk make certain to intone how her smile is unreal, cold, inhuman.

At times, I get frustrated by the whole "carry stuff" thing. But it moments like this that I was looking for. That's a familiar face, acting in a familiar (i.e. crazy) way in an unfamiliar game.
Same with Alwan huffing and puffing in obvious disagreement with a shaper many ranks higher than him or a rebel general with a ton of creations, each of which could kill us all.
Litalia's madness display made me feel like I just opened the door and stepped home. Despite the bullying from her.
OK, it's also worth it for the semi-religious reverance I got from servilles, the servant mind and a coward guard I found in the academy. "Master shaper" and all, while I'm a novice. :)


Question: Do we get lines of "reputation with rebels increased" or something after quests and dialogues? I want to know where I stand...
"I am not mad, no matter what you're implying." - Litalia

GF5 mod with extra quest chain here!  Discover who you are and set up your base.

"Ohhh, no! No, it's so close! So close!" - Blxz, ambushed by an Unbound

Blxz Blxz

Shadowwalker

  • Member
    • Member ID: 12,853
  • 411 posts

Posted 10 October 2015 - 02:14 AM #33 Geneforge 3 - Hints (without spoilers) and changes from GF5?

View Postalhoon, on 07 October 2015 - 11:16 AM, said:


Litalia's attack on the school is a terrible thing. I may go pro-shaper in this game.

I can't imagine how anyone could ever go anything BUT pro-shaper in these games. I've had to force a pro-rebel game and even then I felt bad about myself.

In pretty much every game except G1 (where the shapers are sort of presented as a midway evil choice) it seems foolish to go with the rebels.

The choices sort of seem like:

- Well you can choose the proper government who have bans on the proliferation of certain technologies (justifiably so in a multitude of cases across the series)

OR

- We can go full terrorist and unleash dragons and monsters and kill people so that we can take power for totally selfish reasons.


The rebels just seem like bond villains. It is like saying, "Why does the government ban nuclear proliferation and tightly control nuclear power stations? Their rules are harsh and bad. We should have freedom to use nuclear power in our own homes too. Lets get bombs and blow stuff up and then we can all have uranium baths."

Although perhaps I am just limited in my viewpoint?

Lilith Lilith

in before the apocalypse

  • Global Moderator
    • Member ID: 669
  • 19,845 posts
  • LocationMelbourne, Australia

Posted 10 October 2015 - 04:30 AM #34 Geneforge 3 - Hints (without spoilers) and changes from GF5?

i mean if controlling the use of shaping were the only thing the shapers did that'd be one thing, but they're not exactly keen on allowing creations to exist outside of shaper control at all, even the ones who just want to mind their own business and not cause trouble for anybody. i guess not wanting to be killed for the crime of existing technically counts as a selfish reason for wanting to overthrow the shapers, but it's a pretty understandable reason all the same. considering what the shapers wanted to do to the awakened in both g1 and g2 it's hard to blame free creations for deciding that open rebellion is the only viable option and it's understandable that some humans would sympathise with them for doing so (especially since it's implied that non-shaper humans are basically treated like dirt by the shaper ruling class a lot of the time)

also considering the number of sealed labs and corrupt shapers you see in the series it's questionable how effective they even are at the "controlling the use of shaping" part tbh. they certainly seem to be better at burying their mistakes than preventing those mistakes from happening in the first place

Agitproprioception Agitproprioception

The Demon of Good Taste

  • Global Moderator
    • Member ID: 223
  • 13,777 posts

Posted 10 October 2015 - 05:24 AM #35 Geneforge 3 - Hints (without spoilers) and changes from GF5?

Yeah.  Also there's the whole "let's shape some humans into a supposedly inferior race and then enslave them for eternity" thing.  Minor problem there.
"I, for one, prefer to believe that the forums are dead and that Lilith, Slarty, and I are all ghosts haunting the forum." -- Triumph

"I think we all have days where we feel like a Displacer Iguana." -- Slarty




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users