• Announcements

    • That Which Mourns Soundly

      Logging in   05/10/2017

      If you had an account and can't log in as of 5/9/17, this may be because of a change in logins with new forum software. You can log in using your publicly displayed name (not your username) or your email address and the password you used before.   If you have problems with this, please ask any of the mods or admins. 
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
alhoon

Geneforge 3 - Hints (without spoilers) and changes from GF5?

243 posts in this topic

Hi all! I'll soon start GF3 playing a shaper. I've finished GF4 and GF5. So I'd like to see how the rebellion started etc.

 

First, I would kindly like to ask people to refrain from giving me spoilers about GF3.

Then I would like to inform people that I will give spoilers as I play the game.

What I know is that the rebellion will start, that Litalia, Akari Blaze and Ghaldring are there and I'll see how Greta the great general of the rebels and Alwan the scourge of the rebellion started out. :)

 

 

 

 

Now, I would like to ask what's different gameplay-wise from GF3 to GF5, for playing the shaper class.

Are there artifacts? Magic anvils to make them? I already saw that each item in the inventory adds weight ( :( )

I also heard that unlike GF4-5, an attack takes 5 action points.

 

Anyway, to precise questions:

- Are there items that give a significant boost to mechanics and leadership, or I need to invest to them more?

- Which creations are good, which are bad and which are OK?

- Limit is 6 cannisters before you get over the limit, correct?

- Are there books, like in GF5 to train you to stuff, or it's just trainers and cannisters?

- How long is the game compared to GF5? (Took me about 80 hours to finish it)

- What level should I be about when finishing it? I was about lvl 36-37 when finished GF4 and lvl 48 when I finished GF5.

- Is it possible to experience both Shaper and Rebel endings without replaying half the game?

- How easy\hard the game is? I had no problems with the "normal" difficulty of GF4 and GF5. Not boring, not frustrating for the most part.

- Is it really possible to end the game with very few fights? Has anyone done it?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

- Are there items that give a significant boost to mechanics and leadership, or I need to invest to them more?

You can get 9 mech from items, 2 canisters, max you'll ever need is 20. 7 leadership from items I think ?

 

- Is it possible to experience both Shaper and Rebel endings without replaying half the game?

Ending Dhonal pro-shaper gives you another shot at joining the rebels on the fourth isle. So you would have to replay about 1,5 isles to see both endings. Doing Dhonal pro-rebel locks you into their way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"Are there items that give a significant boost to mechanics and leadership, or I need to invest to them more?" There are items that boost Lead / Mech. I'm not sure what you mean by "significant" boost; expect to invest in the similarly to what you did in G5. There is one optional area that requires 20 Mechanics, everything else is lower (I believe the next highest you need is 14 Mech.). I believe the highest Leadership you can ever need is 16.

 

"Which creations are good, which are bad and which are OK?" Use Vlish. One quirk of the game mechanics in G3 is that Vlish are awesomely powerful. Start investing in your magic shaping from the beginning of the game, get the ability to make Vlish on the 2nd Island, create seven of them, and never look back. G3 is a game where making early Vlish and leveling them up the rest of the game WILL be rewarded (NOT necessarily investing essence in them, just getting automatically bonuses they gain from levels). Plenty of other creations are fine; you can do powerful stuff with them too; BUT the mechanically optimal approach is create an army of Vlish.

 

"Limit is 6 cannisters before you get over the limit, correct?" I do not recall the answer to this.

 

"Are there books, like in GF5 to train you to stuff, or it's just trainers and cannisters?" You'll learn shaping / spells from trainers and canisters in G3.

 

"How long is the game compared to GF5? (Took me about 80 hours to finish it)" G3 is a smaller game in terms of raw number of zones.

 

"What level should I be about when finishing it? I was about lvl 36-37 when finished GF4 and lvl 48 when I finished GF5." I don't remember what levels I was, but it doesn't really matter. Do as much stuff as you can and you'll reach a high enough level. :p

 

"Is it possible to experience both Shaper and Rebel endings without replaying half the game?" As Nim said, on Dhonal's Isle, near the end of that island, you'll have the chance to make a big choice to either aid the rebels or fight with the shapers. If you aid the rebels at that point, you are locked in. If you stand with the shapers, you keep your options open. The next island, Gull Island, is your last chance to choose sides; your actions there will determine your endgame; when you set sail from Gull Island for the last island, you will be locked in as either a rebel or a shaper.

 

"How easy\hard the game is? I had no problems with the "normal" difficulty of GF4 and GF5. Not boring, not frustrating for the most part." Personally, I found G4 harder than G3, FWIW.

 

"Is it really possible to end the game with very few fights? Has anyone done it?" It is totally possible. I got as far as Dhonal's Isle before I got distracted by other things, but based on my previous play-throughs I was confident I could chart out a course as a pacifist to the endgame.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Vlish? :/

 

Meh, I don't like them at all. I consider them ... ugly.

I'll go for 5 creations. 1 will be a Cryora, 1 will be a drayk\drakon and 1 will be a gazer. So at first I'll have cryora\4 vlish and then reduce them as I get Drayks and gazer

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You didn't ask "Which creations will I personally find most aesthetically pleasing?" You asked which ones were good. :p

 

The cryoa will be fine when you get it but really isn't worth it as a long-term plan, and probably won't pull its weight by the endgame. You'll do all right with whatever upper-tier creations you settle on, though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They never pull their weight by the endgame... :( Although they have such high dex that enemies miss a lot, it doesn't make up for their lack of health and damage. BUT... I keep them for the cheap, cold damage. Sure, I could use Cryodrayks but they were more expensive. So, a high level Cryora's breath would do a lot of damage to a drakon (magic resistant, high armor, fire resistant) or drayk in GF4 and GF5.

 

Thank you for the answer though, even if it was "bad news".

 

Also, is there a way to "import" GF4 and GF5 Cryora graphics to GF3?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Triumph wasn't exaggerating. Vlish really are head and shoulders above most other creations in G3. And once you account for the extra levels they can gain (because you can make them earlier) they are actually head and shoulders above most 3rd and 4th tier creations, even without accounting for their vastly cheaper essence cost.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Cryoas have a great ranged attack - good multiplier, above average accuracy, chance to stun, few enemies resist it. You just need to keep other creations between them and Rotghroths, maybe cast Augmentation on them for particularly tough battles. You can easily keep a Cryoa or three to the end of the game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The beginning:

I think GF3 had the best and most moving beginning. With your dead classmates that the game give you some background info on. These are not shapers, these are young people that aspired to be shapers and the game makes effort to give some personality to the dead bodies you loot.

 

Litalia's attack on the school is a terrible thing. I may go pro-shaper in this game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Litalia: "I am heartless and unlikable!" :mad:

Rahul: "Nay! I am more heartless and unlikable than you!" :angry:

Litalia: "Impossible! I am the mostest heartless and unlikable! By the way, look at this oppressed servile meant to inspire pity!" :mad:

Rahul: "I have taken cruelty to levels you can't imagine! Also, look, pathetic refugees fleeing rebel barbarity!" :angry:

Litalia: "Thus, Shaper, you can clearly not choose the faction in front of me!" :whistle:

Rahul: "Obviously, Shaper, you can clearly not choose the faction in front of me!" :whistle:

Shaper: "Why isn't there a kill-everyone option? Help me, Aodare, you're my only hope!" :o

Owenmoz likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't remember Rahul being particularly heartless. Was he? My memory places him as sort of banal and unaware and accustomed to the evils of his culture. Not that the Shapers look great at that point, but a lot less crazy than Litalia. It's really when you get to Agatha and see Khyryk's dilemma that they really go down the tubes.

 

It also really says something that Alwan and Greta are the characters people remember most from G3. The faction leaders are not only unattractive ethically, they're boring. Not an accusation that could easily be levelled against the Drayks, or Barzahl.

Blxz likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Rahul himself doesn't come across as that villainous, no. I was just using him and Litalia as prominent figures who could be stand-ins for their entire factions. There are a number of other shapers in G3 who act more brutal or corrupt (such as the aforementioned Agatha), but they aren't quite as prominent as Rahul.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I always found it annoying that the single best way to sell me on the rebel side would have been to

let me visit Icy End and talk to residents, but you can't do that until the very end of the game when your alignment is already fixed. They are by far the most (only?) sympathetic rebels in the game, rather than the wild sowers of chaos you encounter everywhere prior to that.

 

 

On the other hand, even while the rebels are trying as hard as possible to make the shapers look reasonable, you keep meeting thuggish shapers who talk about how they kick puppies serviles for fun. There are plenty of more reasonable shapers

(Diwaniya is incompetent but well-meaning; Fanjul seemed nice enough; Erika was decent; Khyryk is the reasonable shaper par excellence; and the band you meet on Isle of Spears were all pleasant enough)

as well as ordinary humans fighting on the shaper side. But then you have people like the creepy inquisition lady in the Inner Keep, and Agatha, and Chadwick, to name a few.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Khyryk is the nail in the coffin, though, because his clear explanation of the dilemma he faces in deciding how to live his life is what makes it clear that there is no going back to the era of respectable, competent loyalists like Shanti and Aodare.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tangent, now that I'm reminiscing about G3: G3 is one of the games where I find it most unreasonable that the PC can make any difference. In G1, I attribute the PC's meteoric rise to power to the potency of original Sucia canisters; each level-up is the power of the canisters slowly continuing to enhance me. In G4, I can imagine the player's ability to level-up and grow powerful so quickly is factor of the Geneforge; the power is there, the PC just grows into the ability to call upon it (you've also got the PC's double-agent status to help explain your unique level of influence). In G5, you've got the Geneforge to help explain things but also narrative that PC was once a great power and is now merely rediscovering or regaining that strength. And in all three cases, the player's escalating power helps justify why the PC is able to influence events. In G2, it is harder to justify the PC's mechanical growth, but I can at least imagine how there could have been a balance of power among the factions so delicate, so precarious, that the introduction of one more Shaper, even if one that was still in training, could have been the proverbial camel-abusing, back-breaking straw. G3, though? A setting where both shapers and drakons seem to be relatively abundant compared to the size of the region? There's no rationalization I can devise for why all these powerful shapers and mighty drakons would choose to rely on a lowly student for strategically important missions, or why the PC would be capable of performing such missions.

Blxz likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also, in G1 and G2, the PC had quite a bit of advanced shaper training dedicated not to shaping, but to learning, One of the intros talks about that, and IIRC the G2 PC was actually further along in training than the G1 PC? But the G3 PC is significantly earlier in her shaping career, so that explanation doesn't help much at all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, that matches my recollection that the G2 PC was the most advanced in training of the various PCs, followed by the G1 PC.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Every once in a while, you have heard rumors of different sorts of serviles, rogue serviles, who are smart, disobedient, and even rebellious. You've always dismissed those rumors as nonsense.

All of the Shapers' creations are made to happily serve the Shapers. How could it be otherwise?

 

LOOOOOL

Hillarious.

 

GF3 beginning is certainly the best from GF3-5. The propaganda (See above), my shock of finding the dead novices etc.

Now, if I didn't have to kill worms but actually was a bit more powerful... :(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Actually, I'm pretty sure I've seen other people express appreciation for G3's opening, so I don't think you're alone. G1 does by far the best job of setting up a sense of mystery and intrigue that drew me in to wanting to explore. It is the least action-packed opening, but also the most atmospheric, more like stepping into a mystery novel than into a war movie. It is easily the best opening in the series, in my opinion. G2 did a good job of setting you up with a mentor figure you could respect, then quickly sprang on you a big reveal plus the mentor's disappearance in order to draw you further in. Similar to G1, it eases you in to the story with a rising sense of mystery rather a "BOOM ACTION HERO TIME!" approach. G4 has a fairly intense opening where you get the sense of barely escaping with your life and then promptly being thrown in a desperate war situation. In being a more action / conflict-heavy intro, it is more G3 than G1/G2, but I think it manages to feel more intense and dangerous. G5...meh. I think I'd rate G5 as having the least interesting opening for the series. I'd rate G1 and G2 definitely better than G3's opening, and G4 as probably better but close.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Playing the games in order as they came out, G3's opening is at a disadvantage. G1's opening, while very undynamic, introduced the entire Geneforge world, and there was a sense of mystery and exploration. G2's opening in many ways felt like a rehash: once again you had a shaping student realizing that everything was not as he expected. However, there were a ton of game and mechanics changes from G1 that made things feel fresh. G2's opening also revolved around Shanti, possibly the most positively received character in the entire franchise.

 

Enter G3. It's not that the writing or the staging was worse, it's that we were now seeing the exact same opening framework -- a shaping student realizes that everything is not as he expected -- for the third time. The attack on the school didn't feel very urgent because you could proceed at your own pace. Where Shanti was opinionated and interesting, Alwan and Greta were both incredibly tentative, and Master Hoge had barely anything to say at all. When Litalia shows up, she's an interesting idea but she's pretty cardboard in G3. And the early zones played out in exactly the same way as the early zones of G1 and G2 -- and this time, there were almost no mechanics changes -- except the followers of the popular Awakened viewpoint were no longer even given a conversation option that expressed their opinion. Despite the cutscenes, it just didn't feel fresh.

 

G4 was the opposite. A dynamic opening where you are literally racing against death; beginning as a jaded rebel rather than a naive shaping student; playing a class you've never seen before; immediately faced with a brand new (and powerful) creation type; given access to a Geneforge, for the first time since G1, right away. The early zones are completely different. Greta is a much more interesting character, too. It was completely fresh.

 

G5, while it got mixed reviews overall, certainly had a unique and emotional opening, with your enslavement to Rawal in the Foundry. Also, your character history -- as an apparently powerful, mysterious, amnesiac -- is completely different from the "young promising shaper" of G1-3 and the "young promising rebel" of G4. And in contrast to the previous two games, it gave you a ton of options -- in conversation options, in character classes, in creations, and even in where to go.

 

Maybe this helps explain my perspective? I can see how it might be different if you played the games in a different order. But it's really the G3/G4 comparison that seems most foreign to me -- for me, G3's opening seems so predictable, G4's so dynamic.

Blxz likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It sure explains your perspective and I would probably feel the same... if I played GF1 or GF2. For me, even the notion of shaper student is new. For the first time EVER I'm not a freak, but a shaper-wannabe! For the first time ever I see things like "Attack on shapers? That can't be possible."

 

 

NOT being given access to a geneforge yet also feels fresh.

I hope I find one soon, cause my character feels the weakest starting character I had.

 

I wonder if, by a miracle, for the first time in over 150 hours of playing Geneforge games, I'll find a shaper tutor that will teach me WITHOUT telling me how much of a freak I am and how many sacred laws I break by existing and how he or she only teaches me because of necessity.

I have grown frustrated with Shapers looking down their nose on me at the very least for not being part of their sacred above-all order.

Moseh, in GF4, literally impaled in machines powered by drawing the life out of people or creations... called ME a freak.

This time, I can look at lifecrafters in the face and tell them they are the freaks! :) I can give back some of the abuse I've endured by shapers for over 150 hours!

 

When the Servant mind called me "powerful shaper" (LOL) and told me how the ungrateful rogues we brought to power turned upon us I wanted to kiss the screen. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Haha, cool :) I will be really interested to see what your reactions are when you get to G1. I bet it'll be fascinating!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As a note, I want to tell everyone that I give a good report of the "interesting" parts and important NPCs to my sister, that doesn't play these games but asks me about how X did etc. I actually take notes when playing so I can tell her.

 

 

While we occasionally do that for movies, the story of the saga is captivating that every part I play, deserves a long facebook \ phone discussion.

 

 

My sister is the one demanding I go the shaper route in this game. :) And I usually listen to my big sister.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi all! I'll soon start GF3 playing a shaper. I've finished GF4 and GF5. So I'd like to see how the rebellion started etc.

 

Hey, I love this. This series is pretty old now, but here are two players doing the same thing at about the same time. I played G5 years ago, but in the last month or two have gone G4, G3 and then G2. I'll be moving onto G1 in a bit, if I can resist replaying 5 with some self-applied challenge (probably solo). How far have you got with G3?

 

Now, I would like to ask what's different gameplay-wise from GF3 to GF5, for playing the shaper class.

Are there artifacts? Magic anvils to make them? I already saw that each item in the inventory adds weight ( :( )

I also heard that unlike GF4-5, an attack takes 5 action points.

 

G3 still has artifacts, and they're pretty damn useful. You can craft some really useful ones semi-early (Dhonal's), but you won't have the recipe 'legitimately' until much later. So you might want to consider if you're happy using spoilers to find recipes. It's all here:

 

http://spiderwebforu...facts-spoilers/

 

Each item counting to the weight is really frustrating. You might want to consider having item stashes at exit of an area and going back a few times. But if you're playing a Shaper, you could also just say sod it and accept having 2 AP a lot of the time. In a tough fight drop some stuff, but in the easier ones just use your Shaper as a pack horse. I was a Shaper in G3 just recently and that's wat I did.

 

Needing 5 AP left to attack is really quite the shift. It makes melee-only types a bit weaker. I went with Magic Shaping and was mostly disappointed by my glaahks. I did need them to round off damage types, but the AP shift made them underperform a little compared to my expectations.

 

Anyway, to precise questions:

- Are there items that give a significant boost to mechanics and leadership, or I need to invest to them more?

- Which creations are good, which are bad and which are OK?

- Limit is 6 cannisters before you get over the limit, correct?

- Are there books, like in GF5 to train you to stuff, or it's just trainers and cannisters?

- How long is the game compared to GF5? (Took me about 80 hours to finish it)

- What level should I be about when finishing it? I was about lvl 36-37 when finished GF4 and lvl 48 when I finished GF5.

- Is it possible to experience both Shaper and Rebel endings without replaying half the game?

- How easy\hard the game is? I had no problems with the "normal" difficulty of GF4 and GF5. Not boring, not frustrating for the most part.

- Is it really possible to end the game with very few fights? Has anyone done it?

 

Lead/Mech: there's a Charm, Ring (+2), Vest and Cloak. Plus a +2 Lead shield, +1 Mech shield, +1 Mech necklace. No +2 Mech Gloves in this, I don't think. I don't know exactly what you need to invest when. I think I get to 5/5 ASAP, and it's good to keep a few SP spare to be able to bump either up 2 levels in a 'crisis'. Try to hit 8/8 natural, I think you'll be fine with that.

 

Vlish are definitely amazing. I went with three vlish and a terror vlish – I needed a different damage type. At that point it's efficient to stick with Magic Shaping. Glaahks are always great, and I found my eventual gazer did even better than the vlish. Battle Shaping seems a bit sub-par really. Fire Shaping's inbetween. Drayks/cryodrayks are solid, and I was surprised to miss the can't-hit-the-broadside-of-a-barn kyshakks.

 

I think it's more than 6 canisters. I used them fairly freely early on, and got dialogue situations like I'd gone mad… then stopped and was fine. I think the limit increases through the game, and might get as high as around 12 by the end.

 

All the games are blurring together a bit now but I think G3 has books. Length is maybe 70% of G5, I think.

 

I ended at level 37 with seven creations and being mostly a completionist.

 

Re: Shapers/Rebels, not sure. I played a loyalist. However, the 'win conditions' for the two sides, as far as I can tell, aren't exclusive. I actually did both, and was surprised Jeff wrote an ending for it. It's not really the same as getting the experience of playing both sides though.

 

Can't really say re: easy/hard – think it was about average. And I killed everything so can't say about pacifism.

 

Tangent, now that I'm reminiscing about G3: G3 is one of the games where I find it most unreasonable that the PC can make any difference. In G1, I attribute the PC's meteoric rise to power to the potency of original Sucia canisters; each level-up is the power of the canisters slowly continuing to enhance me. In G4, I can imagine the player's ability to level-up and grow powerful so quickly is factor of the Geneforge; the power is there, the PC just grows into the ability to call upon it (you've also got the PC's double-agent status to help explain your unique level of influence). In G5, you've got the Geneforge to help explain things but also narrative that PC was once a great power and is now merely rediscovering or regaining that strength. And in all three cases, the player's escalating power helps justify why the PC is able to influence events. In G2, it is harder to justify the PC's mechanical growth, but I can at least imagine how there could have been a balance of power among the factions so delicate, so precarious, that the introduction of one more Shaper, even if one that was still in training, could have been the proverbial camel-abusing, back-breaking straw. G3, though? A setting where both shapers and drakons seem to be relatively abundant compared to the size of the region? There's no rationalization I can devise for why all these powerful shapers and mighty drakons would choose to rely on a lowly student for strategically important missions, or why the PC would be capable of performing such missions.

 

I felt this a bit too, but I also felt that way in G4. I was being asked to deal with Moseh and Monarch at a time when my character was still really just a rookie. The power of those two was breathtaking, and I was being asked to deal with them? Seriously?!

 

G5 felt most reasonable, I think. G2 next, for me, because Drypeak felt a lot more 'primitive' – I could believe that a talented young Shaper could affect things, because you weren't looking at a giant war with drakons everywhere.

 

 

It sure explains your perspective and I would probably feel the same... if I played GF1 or GF2. For me, even the notion of shaper student is new. For the first time EVER I'm not a freak, but a shaper-wannabe! For the first time ever I see things like "Attack on shapers? That can't be possible."

Yeah, that was a really interesting change for me too. I love the odd perspective you get playing the games backwards.

 

Haha, cool :) I will be really interested to see what your reactions are when you get to G1. I bet it'll be fascinating!

 

Oh god I've so been looking forward to getting to G1. Where it all began. And it's surprising how little I've been able to piece together of what happened on Sucia Island from 2–5. I thought it would've all been spoiled but… really, what happened there? Who made the first Geneforge, and why? Were the drayks created there or earlier? Do all serviles have the potential to be intelligent, or was it like a 'disease' spread from Sucia? Jeff couldn't have imagined people playing 5->4->3->2->1, but it works remarkably well.

Huey, Dewey, and QE likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not really spoiler-worthy, but Alwan and Greta's personalities in this game are a bit different. Alwan is a foul-tempered ass (a lot of players hate Alwan in this game), Greta is a submissive, hypocritical bleeding heart, though she's also pretty mellow compared to later games.

 

Oh, and Aura of Flames is ridiculously powerful.

 

Also, don't disarm any of the mines at the Roamer Marsh, whatever you do.

 

Misc note: There are four teachers at the Academy. Hoge, and based on the bodies, another shaper, and presumably a Guardian and an Agent (the other two bodies are of warriors, and the only corpse sprites back then were warrior, shaper, and servile)

When you encounter the bodies of your teachers, there are giant rats around, presumably feeding on their corpses.

 

Note that the timeline given in the game is inconsistent-- it is consistent up to Dhonal Iale, but as soon as you step on Gull Isle, you are given a much shorter one. It goes like this:

Since the attack on the school, you have been traveling for....

Greenwood Isle: weeks

Harmony Isle: weeks (w. the end of Harmony Isle stating that your adventure will continue for months)

Dhonal Isle: months

Gull isle: weeks

Isle of Spears: ????/N/A/not given

 

Note: don't read spoiler until you've left Fort Wilton.

Also, true to her G4 personality, we see that Greta

is a liar in this game as well. Once you reach Dhonal Isle, she starts to lie about her past with the school-- claiming that she "chose" to stop training to be a shaper. This contradicts her introductory speech in which she states that she resents being kicked out.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How far on GF3? I have only be able to play for... an hour or so. :( Just mid-clearing the academy, the zone after the tutorial.

I found Alwan and he seems very much like an inexperienced Alwan to be sincere. He's not powerful as in GF4 nor influential as GF5 so he seethes with rage cause he's as much fanatic as in those games.

I haven't found Greta yet.

 

I found the teacher, Hoge, and I think he's not just a coward shaper, I think he's rebel.

I think my professor (shaper class), that probably had taught me for years, that my char was so in awe of, that could tell my char by a look proving familiarity... collaborated with rebels to bring in monsters to kill nearly defenseless teenagers he spent years training.

 

I had the option to attack him, and I had a fyora and Alwan with me. But seriously, I don't know if we could deal with the battle alpha he had at this point, let alone a shaper. A hit by a -worm- at this time, takes half my health!

However, my contempt for him couldn't be greater. Unlike the random rebel lifecrafter, traitor shaper or Drakon, he knew the students personally. He was tasked with our protection. He admits, openly, that the other teachers immediately charged the enemies, no thoughts of retreat and died fighting. You know, the thing you expect from mage mentors in a magocracy that see the future of their sacred organization under mortal danger.

 

About the comment of "We don't learn much about what happened in Sucia" we also haven't learned much about what happened in the Ashen islands!

Sure, Litalia, Greta and Alwan all have told me "The academy was attacked. We won. Later on, we conquered them all and kicked shapers out." But that is it.

Another shaper in GF4, an old woman purist (like internal shaper police) that called me freak and then shaped me to give me +1 spellcraft (yes, shapers are crazy) told me that the headmaster or something, Rahul fought like a hero etc gave his life to stop the monsters and all. I think she had a crush on that shaper boss.

I have also learned from Drakons that... Ghaldring was there. And Akari Blaze.

And that is it. That is all I've learned about GF3 from the rest. Perhaps I forget a couple of details but I really don't know enough for it to be spoiled.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sucia was significant for stuff unique to Sucia. The Ashen Isles just happened to be where some stuff happened.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I met Litalia! :)

She's as insane as I remember her to be, and as arrogant and rebellious as in GF4. Also, having played GF4 I know realize why GF4 made such a fuss about her efforts to smile as a human.

Her introduction, after she paralyzes a novice shaper, a novice guardian and a weak fyora, while surrounded by 2 Ghalks, 2 Battle Alphas and a Drayk make certain to intone how her smile is unreal, cold, inhuman.

 

At times, I get frustrated by the whole "carry stuff" thing. But it moments like this that I was looking for. That's a familiar face, acting in a familiar (i.e. crazy) way in an unfamiliar game.

Same with Alwan huffing and puffing in obvious disagreement with a shaper many ranks higher than him or a rebel general with a ton of creations, each of which could kill us all.

Litalia's madness display made me feel like I just opened the door and stepped home. Despite the bullying from her.

OK, it's also worth it for the semi-religious reverance I got from servilles, the servant mind and a coward guard I found in the academy. "Master shaper" and all, while I'm a novice. :)

 

 

Question: Do we get lines of "reputation with rebels increased" or something after quests and dialogues? I want to know where I stand...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Litalia's attack on the school is a terrible thing. I may go pro-shaper in this game.

 

I can't imagine how anyone could ever go anything BUT pro-shaper in these games. I've had to force a pro-rebel game and even then I felt bad about myself.

 

In pretty much every game except G1 (where the shapers are sort of presented as a midway evil choice) it seems foolish to go with the rebels.

 

The choices sort of seem like:

 

- Well you can choose the proper government who have bans on the proliferation of certain technologies (justifiably so in a multitude of cases across the series)

 

OR

 

- We can go full terrorist and unleash dragons and monsters and kill people so that we can take power for totally selfish reasons.

 

 

The rebels just seem like bond villains. It is like saying, "Why does the government ban nuclear proliferation and tightly control nuclear power stations? Their rules are harsh and bad. We should have freedom to use nuclear power in our own homes too. Lets get bombs and blow stuff up and then we can all have uranium baths."

 

Although perhaps I am just limited in my viewpoint?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i mean if controlling the use of shaping were the only thing the shapers did that'd be one thing, but they're not exactly keen on allowing creations to exist outside of shaper control at all, even the ones who just want to mind their own business and not cause trouble for anybody. i guess not wanting to be killed for the crime of existing technically counts as a selfish reason for wanting to overthrow the shapers, but it's a pretty understandable reason all the same. considering what the shapers wanted to do to the awakened in both g1 and g2 it's hard to blame free creations for deciding that open rebellion is the only viable option and it's understandable that some humans would sympathise with them for doing so (especially since it's implied that non-shaper humans are basically treated like dirt by the shaper ruling class a lot of the time)

 

also considering the number of sealed labs and corrupt shapers you see in the series it's questionable how effective they even are at the "controlling the use of shaping" part tbh. they certainly seem to be better at burying their mistakes than preventing those mistakes from happening in the first place

ThricebornPhoenix likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah. Also there's the whole "let's shape some humans into a supposedly inferior race and then enslave them for eternity" thing. Minor problem there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah. Also there's the whole "let's shape some humans into a supposedly inferior race and then enslave them for eternity" thing. Minor problem there.

Apart from Learned Darian telling the player that he believes that to be the case, Is there any actual proof I'm forgetting ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Apart from Learned Darian telling the player that he believes that to be the case, Is there any actual proof I'm forgetting ?

 

Yep.

 

 

In Geneforge 1, the shade in the temple in Spirit City and Heustess both have first-hand knowledge of it.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lilith, neither of those are about "let's shape some humans into a supposedly inferior race and then enslave them for eternity".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Whether the serviles were transformed from humans or made out of essence doesn't justify the Shapers enslaving them for eternity. Killing them when they think they get too smart etc.

 

My parents made me. I was literaly shaped in my mother's belly for 9 months. Not only that, but it took me years to be somewhat self-sufficient and my parents were paying for me for even more years.

 

And yet, although my parents labored and suffered for me and my sister a million times more than a shaper about a servile made, they don't ask anything from me but the occasional chore around the house when I visit them and they don't consider me rogue and kill me if I disagree with them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There may not be actual proof that serviles were shaped from humans, but it seems to be the obvious assumption, and there's definitely no evidence suggesting they came from any other source. And as people said above, the "enslaved for eternity" part is not disputable and bad enough on its own.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The rebels just seem like bond villains. It is like saying, "Why does the government ban nuclear proliferation and tightly control nuclear power stations? Their rules are harsh and bad. We should have freedom to use nuclear power in our own homes too. Lets get bombs and blow stuff up and then we can all have uranium baths."

Although perhaps I am just limited in my viewpoint?

 

My viewpoint is:

Consider the following

The government is a cabal of electronics and software engineers. They alone are allowed to know how to write programs and build electronic devices.

If you're found knowing how to make even a calculator (program or machine) without having proper brain-washing training, you're executed. But they don't stop there. To be allowed to learn enough so you can act as customer service and perhaps technician that makes simple repairs, you have to get license and you're monitored (people caring for creations or smithing shaped steel). The same scrunity goes for people making capacitors, semiconductors and coils etc. (Outsiders rising batons, mines and living tools).

Not only that, although they certainly help with their knowledge, they use their knowledge of electronics and software to be the unquestioned leaders and to keep society under scrunity and control. They tell them about the terrible havoc electronic devices can wrought, how a programmer could unleash a virus on the net to damage all their internet-based machines etc. Through the centuries, they have brain-washed large swaths of society to think that this is the way things should be.

Oh, and the government keeps slaves too, of a race they say they modified ages ago using computer programs to pick and choose. They treat them kinda OK while they work unquestionally but kill them without hesitation if they show too much independence.

 

Is knowledge about electronics and software dangerous? Yes.

Can in the wrong hands do a lot of harm? Yes.

Does this justify a government of technocrats to decide that they alone are responsible enough and should control ANY access to these technologies and research about it? Hell, no!

 

And aside of this power-hoarding... there's the problem of enslaving sentient creatures. Not only serviles, but anything.

 

 

I can very clearly see why an insurgency may start under such a regime. And with war, nasty things will happen from all sides. Although yes, the rebels are kinda worse. But they fight dirty for the good cause.

Why I may go pro-shaper in this one? Cause the end doesn't justify the means! Litalia KILLED students. She could well just have them captured or something!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Apart from Learned Darian telling the player that he believes that to be the case, Is there any actual proof I'm forgetting ?

I don't recall Darian saying this, but Sage Clois* (G1, Quiet Marshes) does. Her basis for this belief is a high degree of similarity of intellect, based on long observation of Serviles and Shaper writings, which is not conclusive but worth considering.

 

One thing we can accept as fact is that

the early Shapers, the original Sucia Island Shaper tribe, used the power of Shaping on their enemies, either killing them outright or mutating them into hideous (sometimes powerful) forms. When they'd done all the damage they could to Sucia (including spreading at least one Shaping-caused disease that ravaged the flora), they left for the mainland.

That the Serviles may originally have been another human tribe that was warped by raw Shaping ages ago is not certain, but nor is it at all hard to believe.

 

I have said before that G1 shows several ways in which the Shapers were becoming more enlightened since the events of 200 years ago. Actually, the process has probably been slow and steady for the last few thousand years.

 

 

 

*Mysteriously,

the narration describes Clois as being obviously older than a Servile's natural life span, and at one point 'Her white eyes suddenly flash red'.

I can't even imagine what these two observations, obviously clues, are hinting at. I don't believe Clois is even referenced in later games, so no help there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You have to read carefully, and read in-between the lines, but G3 does a good job at showing just how oppressed outsiders are. Again, you have to read between the lines in some areas. A prime example is Alwan's reaction in the Sea Caves. Read between the lines there to find out what outsiders have to put up with from Shapers. Also, make sure to pump your leadership up to 10 as soon as you can (mechanics should be given a priority as well) These should be your first priority skills, also make sure not to boost Missle Weapons, QA, or Parry until you buy a couple levels from the hunter/soldier in San Ru (make sure you're pro-shaper or else he can't train you.) Don't bother if you're a Guardian though, because the price isn't worth it. If you're a Guardian, then hold off of levels in Spellcraft until you buy a couple levels from Grechen in Dhonal Inner Keep.

 

Also, make sure to boost Alwan's and Greta's INT early, or else they'll get the fear status every time their HP get low. Dumb, I know. I would suggest raising it by at least 1 point per level they gain.

 

Also, some tricks and other misc info:

 

--There is a cheat that I have discovered in the minefield woods, but it takes a lot of game loads and carefulness to do.

You can actually disarm multiple mines in a chain, but it is risky.

In order to do this, you must have triggered more than one mine. Any mines that you triggered before deactivating the first one will not be destroyed in the chain. You can then use your remaining AP to disarm these mines. Be warned that if you fail to disarm them before the next round, then they will go off. Without a speed pod, you can disarm up to two additional mines. With a speed pod, up to 4 (5 is possible, but unlikely) Save a speed pod or two for the last/innermost mines.

 

--The infamous creation thief bug-- as long as you are not visible to anyone, you can send your creations/Alwan/Greta to steal anything lying around. Note that they still cannot enter the Sea Cave rebels' storeroom nor Shaper Jolana's bedroom without turning them hostile.

 

--You need 7 or 8 leadership to convince the thahds at the Ambush bridge to leave, for a lot of experience. Use a speed pod right before talking to them, enter combat IMMEDIATELY after talking to them, and use icy crystals to try to kill them when they try to leave.

 

--There is a sack completely hidden under some tree branches at the Minefield woods, in the clearing with the dead servile. Scroll your cursor over the tree branches to the right of it. It contains some grain.

 

--There is a weirdass bug in this game that you should be wary of. I can't remember precisely how it is triggered-- I THINK, what I did, is that I clicked on the attack spell I wanted to cast (or a gem)-- then clicked on the sword icon, then clicked on the floor, so that I get the "finish what you're doing first" message. Then I clicked on myself-- due to a bug, I attacked myself. Make sure you don't do this; it hurts. Badly.

 

--Save before checking any of the sparkly crystal pillars in the Kentia Mines. Whether it gives lovely or beautiful crystals is determined when you load the game. So if you get a blue one, load the game and keep trying until you get a red one.

 

--Save before disarming blue mines (excepting minefield woods, these always create monsters) Sometimes killing the monster will net you better experience.

 

--NEVER EVER disarm the mines in the Roamer Marsh. You will get far more experience for killing the monsters they create, plus said monsters can drop some really nice goodies.

 

--There is a pot hidden in one of the houses at the Rebel Camp (I think the first one to the left) It is completely hidden behind a wall, so scroll your cursor over it until you find it.

 

--Each set of the warped thahds in the Infested Shore will give you exp/drops the first time you kill them, not none after that.

 

--There is a pot hidden behind the southern wall of Mooney's shop in Ft. Wilton. It contains two research notes which you can take.

 

--The only respawning monsters in this game are the rabid rats in Fort Wilton's grain silo. So make sure you keep your items stored here. They will give you experience and may give you item drops that you can sell for a nice bit of cash.

 

--Item drops are determined when you enter a zone. So when you enter, save the game. Then kill things and make a mental note of what drops a goodie. Then re-load the game and kill whichever monsters dropped something nice, then leave, heal, and come back.

In particular, rogue thahds and spawners give nice drops. Spawners have a 75% chance each of dropping a lovely, beautiful crystal, and a gem. So make sure to use this trick in the Inner Mines. All spawners have a 75% chance of dropping one thorn, and a... 50% chance I think of dropping another one, so try to get at least one thorn from every specimen. Rogue Thahds have a 5% chance of dropping a platinum ring.

Other enemies worth farming from are Rogue Drayks (gems), War Bred Serviles (acid thorns and gold rings), and servile cultists/casters (platinum rings) Rogue Battle Betas can drop either a carapace of chainmail, and battle gammas may drop an iron mail. BEWARE!! Any generic-named monster without a "rogue" before its name won't drop anything. E.g. Battle Beta instead of Rogue Battle Beta (which, in fact, is a unique case because the generic and rogue ones are completely different colors)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't recall Darian saying this, but Sage Clois* (G1, Quiet Marshes) does.

Correct, I got Darian and Clois mixed up there.

 

Also, make sure to pump your leadership up to 10 as soon as you can (mechanics should be given a priority as well)

That's a waste considering the amount of items that give LS (and mech).

Don't bother if you're a Guardian though, because the price isn't worth it.

What exactly is a guardian going to spend his money on otherwise ? It's not as if you're starving for cash especially when you then advocate all kinds of hijinks to get even more money.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I assume Hyena means "including items" although I can't be sure (post seemed too spoily. :) I didn't read it all)

 

As for what a Guardian would spend his money on? Buying a house after the war of course! I always try to end the game with a lot of money, cause money talks.

It seemed it was a waste in my GF4 ending though, cause I was executed for sabotaging the machinery and I wasn't considered "pro-rebel" enough.

 

In GF5, my "official" ending, I was hording gems and Jewelry from Drayks and dragons. I ended the game with like 30-40 gems that I never had the time to sell. And the house I had claimed in Penta (to drop things) had lots of items that I didn't need but was "too good" to sell. You know, like aaaaaall those NPCs that tell you "here, have this. I used it years ago and it will serve you better now".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I assume Hyena means "including items" although I can't be sure (post seemed too spoily. :) I didn't read it all)

His post isn't really spoilery, more weird OCD stuff. And 10 LS is actually not that bad advice if you have never played G3. Not gonna spoil anymore tho unless you want to :p

 

As for what a Guardian would spend his money on? Buying a house after the war of course! I always try to end the game with a lot of money, cause money talks.

It seemed it was a waste in my GF4 ending though, cause I was executed for sabotaging the machinery and I wasn't considered "pro-rebel" enough.

 

Well at least you didn't give the shapers the unbound specs and then went for the rebels. That one is a riot. :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What? I didn't know that it was possible. I found some info about the Unbound, not really their specifications since Drakons are as bad as the shapers and most info was in Akhari's head but I didn't have the choice to give them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The specs are in Quessa-Uss, Alwan wants you to steal them. Let me guess, you didn't help the shapers enough and thus Poryphra Ruins was hostile ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Shapers want to control everything. Shaping, magic, creations, and they run the government.

 

While the reasons for rebellion aren't always well presented, the reasons to support the Shapers is more of we are in charge and therefore the best alternative. The examples of out of control shaping are usually caused by Shapers and less by others.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Porypha ruins were not hostile, but although I helped the infiltrators, Alwan kept saying to me "You need to prove your loyalty more" till I left for the final trek of the journey.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0