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alhoon

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Well, if we assume that the academy starts at 16 instead of 18, and that it's 4 years because it includes the necessary brainwashing (which is easier done in younger ages), Alwan would be 19-20 in the start of GF3.

Seems unlikely that it would begin at age 16. The academy consists of a combination of rigorous study, mental conditioning/discipline, and military school. The physical ed/coditioning would require that a student be at their peak performance, which means age 18~24-- 16yos cannot perform physically at anywhere near the level of an 18yo, esp. for boys, who are still in the middle of puberty.

Also, the impulse control center parts of the brain are much too immature in a 16yo, and still pretty bad in 17yo's. Less than 8 hours of sleep also has more detrimental effects on those under 18, and to my understanding, basic/boot camp only allows you have 6 hours of sleep (10 PM to 5 AM)

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Well, part of those problems could be mitigated by alchemy and perhaps some magic. Also, keep in mind that the Shapers seem to be in a late-medieval\early-renaissance society.

Pages started their training far younger than 16 and squires were usually teens running around in chain mail. Knighthood at 16 was not unheard of even if it was as you correctly said, sub-optimal.

So if there were cases that squires turned to knights at 16, or apprentice craftsmen to regular craftsmen etc, starting the training at that age doesn't seem to me that far fetched.

What I mean is that even if according to what we know now and the way we think now 16 seems too early to start... doesn't mean the shapers thought that way and shared the same opinion.

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I am well aware of the age difference. Depending on the era and region, they could start as young as age 10. The Israelites and Medieval Arabs considered 13 to be the age of adulthood, so that was when boys were drafted into the war. Europe and the Middleast up until the 19thg or 20th century took slave soldiers as young as 8 or 9. In Japan, during some ages, in many areas, 14 was considered adulthood, and if they gained the needed skill with a sword, they gained their first katana at age 14, and would become samurai. Generally they would get a childrens' shortsword, such as a kodachi, at age 10 or 11. Prior to that, they would get a bamboo sword. 14yos still make for crappy soldiers, however-- largely due to having not even hit puberty yet. Those sex hormones, alone, have a significant effect on endurance.

 

However, this is not a good comparison-- those eras were also rife with suffocating sexism-- even modern day sexism is not present in the SS games. More importantly, becoming a Shaper is a much bigger decision than becoming a squire or a soldier-- esp. since the Shapers are so secretive about their organization. They're not going to let some kid in to read the same materials that are considered fairly advanced at Outsider mage universities. (remember that in G3? "The Good Stuff" at the Dhonal public library was basically just the cantrips for Shapers)

 

What I mean is that even if according to what we know now and the way we think now 16 seems too early to start... doesn't mean the shapers thought that way and shared the same opinion.

It's not a matter of "think". The phys ed part is easily testable, and it would be quite easy for Shapers to tell the difference in mental facualties bet. 16 and 18yos by comparing the results of their entry exams.

 

My point is that most videogame makers etc. place the age of adulthood and eligibility for joining the military at 18. One exception is Ultima 7: Serpent Gate, but that is only because Richard Garriott wanted to present the town she lived in as especially barbaric and backwards. In Britannia, the age for joining the military does appear to be 18. Yeah, it's a 20+ year old game, but the Ultima series is one of Jeff's main inspirations for his game plots and designs (hell, the Shades in A4 are almost directly ripped off from the Shadowlords in U5, main difference is their origins and the fact that the A4 Shades don't zap you into an alternate prison dimension when they attack you. Not that I'm complaining :) It's almost like an easter egg if you're an Ultima fan.)

 

A lot of them place the drinking age at 20 or 21 as well-- or at 18 at the very least (one exception is the JRPG Chrono Trigger, where the protagonist is around 16 and had a beer drinking contest with an 18 or 20yo woman who wouldn't give him an item that he needed unless he drank her under the table... granted, he was in 65 million BC when this took place...)

 

If you want something more material, none of the protagonists in the Avernum series look like they're younger than 18. In fact, they all look like they're in their 20's to me.

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Well, you're making some compeling arguments. However, I would like to say that a shaper in his or her 16 in the academy wouldn't be taught any magic at all probably for a couple of years. Very rudimentary training in shaping could well start in the 3rd year, when the academy student has shown loyalty and promise. And as we know from Geneforge 5, you finish the academy, the menial lab-hand period and then after a successful test you learn some kiiinda advanced shaper magic (clawbugs, "2nd tier" spells etc)

 

 

My opinion diverts from yours, in that you consider entering the academy as joining up and being equivalent to boot camp or joining the military etc.

Personally I think that happens AFTER you finish the academy. I.e. I don't consider the academy the equivalent of entering boot camp; I consider the last year of the academy equivalent to entering boot camp.

What I mean is that when Litalia attacked the academy in GF3, she didn't attack rookies and officer cadets. She attacked schoolkids that could not defend themselves. The attack on the academy is IMO an act of terror, equivalent of attacking a military highschool

Sure about-to-graduate agents had the most basic battle magic and about-to-graduate shapers could (barely) make fyoras. That doesn't bring them to the level of people finishing basic training; far from it.

 

That's why I think that the academy is equivalent of joining a military high-school instead of joining an officer's academy. As such the age of "joining the military and even then as a probationary member" in Shaper society is ... about 20 when you finish the academy.

 

As a note, don't take my arguments as competitive or something; I enjoy the discussion and value your opinion. If anything, I like how the world of Geneforge can sustain such discussions.

 

ANOTHER THING: I killed Bennhold (I wish there was a Bandit finale :( ). I am 45 level. I believe I am at the point now that I have to do quests that "close up" factions (like killing Platano).

Am I correct in that assumption? Is there more that I have missed in the game?

What level should I be more or less when I start the "join faction and end the game" part? (I have 4 creations usually but I make expendable extras in some areas and have them kill everything while I chill in a corner)

 

The seer says that I make shapers nervous so far. And I have to do some rebel actions, like free some serviles etc.

If Shapers get too angry, would I be attacked at the cities and forts outright? Just in Alwan's and Taygen's? Depends on the location?

 

Are the Trakovites a faction of their own? Or Can I join another and do stuff for Litalia on the side?

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ANOTHER THING: I killed Bennhold (I wish there was a Bandit finale :( ). I am 45 level. I believe I am at the point now that I have to do quests that "close up" factions (like killing Platano).

Am I correct in that assumption? Is there more that I have missed in the game?

What level should I be more or less when I start the "join faction and end the game" part? (I have 4 creations usually but I make expendable extras in some areas and have them kill everything while I chill in a corner)

 

I think I was around level 50 when I finished the game, so you're probably at the point by now where you should be just about ready to pick an ending path.

 

Have you discovered Sammann's Isle yet? It's the toughest area in the game: it's not really plot-important at all, but it's the place to go if you want a challenge. You might have found a pair of mysterious crystals in your travels: look for a place to put them if you want to go there.

 

The seer says that I make shapers nervous so far. And I have to do some rebel actions, like free some serviles etc.

If Shapers get too angry, would I be attacked at the cities and forts outright? Just in Alwan's and Taygen's? Depends on the location?

 

There are specific things you can do to anger certain factions. They'll usually be fairly obvious. Killing a Shaper Council member will turn all the Shapers against you, for example. Just having a heavily pro-rebel reputation won't make towns attack you, though.

 

Are the Trakovites a faction of their own? Or Can I join another and do stuff for Litalia on the side?

 

There are five major characters who give you quest lines leading to five different endings:

 

 

Astoria, Litalia, Ghaldring, Alwan, and Taygen.

 

 

In general, you can do the first one or two quests for any of them without cutting off your other options, but if you keep doing quests for one character, eventually you'll be locked into that character's ending path.

 

 

Technically, Rawal also has an "ending", but it's a lot shorter and less satisfying than the others.

 

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? :(

I found just one Crystal in Bennhold's fort and I don't know that island. I haven't gone to some areas that I didn't have a reason to go, or that they were faction quests.

 

Thank you for your answers.

 

So... I am torn between following Litalia, just because. Following Astoria cause she's the only one that makes sense. And finally following Ghalrding to kill Rawal and shaper Taygen.

Then do Alwan's to see what happens. And Rawal's to see what he plans to do with those cannisters and the geneforge.

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? :(

I found just one Crystal in Bennhold's fort and I don't know that island. I haven't gone to some areas that I didn't have a reason to go, or that they were faction quests.

 

Well, if you want to know how to get there:

 

 

The other crystal is in Kayal's Spire, and the place to use them is the Okavano Barrier zone.

 

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I did the Rawal ending first. :/

By far the easiest. The moment I went to Rawal for my last reward before moving to help the rebels, he offered me "one final task" ... that led to the finale.

 

One question: We lost. Badly. Within 2 years according to the finalle Drakons wipe out the council, ravage Shaper lands, attack and bring us down with relative ease.

 

Is it always so, or if I was pro-shaper the council could have won?

I realize why people say this finalle is not a real finalle. I don't necessarily agree, but I can understand why it's considered "meh"

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For Ghaldring ending, I killed Astoria by blowing her up with her pylons. It was the hardest for me to go against since I like her, so I killed her first. Then I attacked Taygen and in 3 battles now, I haven't managed to keep him bottled up so I can kill him THERE and not fight him in his keep. I'll keep trying.

He's very easy all things considered. I expected him to put up a greater fight.

 

EDIT: after many repeats I found out he has "plot protection". He can't be killed there. I do have to travel to his castle and attack him. :( Never set foot there to not make him angry before hand. Alas...

 

So, I go for Alwan now. There's a way, the smart way to kill him with poison. After 5 hours of battle through Zephyr Oasis, I'll go for that, but Alwan deserves a Guardian's death.

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I honorlessly poisoned Alwan, the one enemy I respected most.

In any case, I went to Taygen's castle hunting him. O_O I found awesome machinery there. I don't know what "Purity Agent" is or how it works, but from what I've learned so far from people (including Rawal) it has to do with a disease\catastrophy to eradicate creations.

Fine work... Taygen could put the Drakons to shame with his shaping work. Seems more impressive than the Unbound and more effective. And equally mad.

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Taygen discovered cells comprise living things and that DNA controls how cells are formed!

Well, madman or not, that was awesome bit of research

 

Yes, I plan doing his finale eventually.

Right now, I'm "meh" that his battle is very anti-climatic. When I got him alone in his castle by accident, I crushed him like a bug. In his throne, he was bring in rotgroths and had super-soldiers. He was also casting an area spell that did tons of damage. Now? Now he summoned some worthless slugs and throwing just essence orbs.

I'm glad he survived. I enjoyed his castle very much.

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But... shaping the living is as illegal as it gets!

Now it is, but as I recall the original 'Shaper' tribe used the power of Shaping as an offensive weapon, directly and randomly altering their enemies' bodies.

 

How can a drakon be "very old" already? I thought we were like 20-30 years from GF2

You mean this one?

I am old. I am one of the first of the drakonsss. One of the few who survived the dark daysss before the rebellion.

Presumably he was a pretty old drayk before he used the Geneforge. Hence, decades later, a very old drakon.

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Personally I think that happens AFTER you finish the academy. I.e. I don't consider the academy the equivalent of entering boot camp; I consider the last year of the academy equivalent to entering boot camp.

So then you think that Guardians and Agents only receive training in combat, wilderness survival, hunting, etc. in their fourth year? That means that your character and Greta have had no combat training whatsoever (they have to be conditioned first, you know) Also, a lot of physical conditioning would be needed in order to wear armor. It's heavy.

 

What I mean is that when Litalia attacked the academy in GF3, she didn't attack rookies and officer cadets. She attacked schoolkids that could not defend themselves. The attack on the academy is IMO an act of terror, equivalent of attacking a military highschool

Sure about-to-graduate agents had the most basic battle magic and about-to-graduate shapers could (barely) make fyoras. That doesn't bring them to the level of people finishing basic training; far from it.

You're comparing gameplay to story, which doesn't work (if we went by that, for example, then every PC mage would have to be at minimum in their late 20's if we go by A3.)

Also, you'll note that three of the four teachers also fell to the rogues, so your argument that the students did not receive military basic doesn't follow. In all likelihood, they would have just barely-- JUST BARELY repelled the attack on the school had Hoge joined them-- and it's safe to presume that the other three teachers were close to Hoge's power at the time (Hoge hadn't used very many canisteters, yet, I'm skeptical that they increased his power much at all)

 

As a note, don't take my arguments as competitive or something; I enjoy the discussion and value your opinion. If anything, I like how the world of Geneforge can sustain such discussions.

As do I :)

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Presumably he was a pretty old drayk before he used the Geneforge. Hence, decades later, a very old drakon.

 

 

What? Drayks shaped themselves to Drakons?!?!? Drayks can "improve" to Drakons? :confused::sick:

 

But Ghaldring said they were made by a shaper. And I have found "very old" Drayks too.

 

 

Err, Danette and company on Sucia discovered that centuries earlier.

Did they, or they just made the geneforge without realizing what DNA is etc? I haven't played GF1, so I don't know.

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Hyena: I stopped reading your post when you started mentioning stuff I haven't seen from GF3 yet. :) I am close to finishing GF5 and I plan to play GF3 then. So far in GF3, I haven't got out of the tutorial zone.

 

About Guardians and agents: Nah, I don't mean (exactly) that they receive training in armor and combat in the 4th year, I would say they could well receive from the beginning some training while in armor to get used to it (like squires did), progressing to heavier armors as they become stronger.

And I think that yes, they receive rudimentary training in combat in their last year, and then it's a process like boot camp+menial tasks period for a few years, where they actually learn the basics of being an Agent\Guardian\Shaper.

Personally, as I said, I think that the academy could be seen as a prolonged live-in high-school, since they learn the very very basics of being a shaper\guardian\agent there. More like learning basic algebra, biology and literature in high-school. You pick a focus in the end and then you go to university matching your decisions\talents.

Since Guardians especially and some Agents are fighting people, I think they learn the very basic things that they will need once they get out of the academy.

 

In any case, the shapers show little-to-no-care about the people that finish the education; the tests taken in the end of the road, are deadly. (I found a dead prospect at GF5 testing halls). As such, I wouldn't consider it strange to not train their students optimally.

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GHALDRING ENDING! ! !

(heavy, heavy spoilers ahead!)

 

I finally finished the first of the finales. I did it mostly out of curiosity since I am split between Astoria and Litallia for my "Real" ending.

However, the Drakon finalle seemed very, very good to me. What happend in my Drakon finalle was: Drakons seize the moment and crush the shapers. Meanwhile my character, Greta and the moderates are sent to the east to stay out of the way.

Knowing when that leads, we build a counter-revolution and when the Drakons are about to win... we strike and bring them down too. It's not a counter-revolution since we're not with the Shapers, it's a coup-de-Grace within the revolution. After beating the exhausted, depleated Drakons fast and easy, everything more or less exists in some form.

Trakovites are around and gaining traction. Geneforges and dangerous power-giving techniques are eradicated. Creations realize that Shaper Laws were around for a reason so we more or less follow them in the future. Shapers keep their first two provinces. Rebels keep the larger (but devastated) part of the continent.

 

The part that confused me is this, about my character "No really rebel or shaper..." :? :confused:

But... I'm the person that killed -6- out of 7 councilors! That I broke the line! That brought the Shaper empire to its knees! I was pro-rebel before joining factions, to the point that Shapers didn't like me at all!

 

Also, no word of what happened to Akari Blaze.

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What? Drayks shaped themselves to Drakons?!?!? Drayks can "improve" to Drakons? :confused::sick:

 

But Ghaldring said they were made by a shaper. And I have found "very old" Drayks too.

G2 stuff (my memory for detail is pretty rough, so this may be a bit off):

 

A rogue shaper helped the drayks to make a drayk-only Geneforge. The drayks that used it became drakons and could Shape. Ghaldring was Shaped by one of those original drakons.

 

 

Did they, or they just made the geneforge without realizing what DNA is etc? I haven't played GF1, so I don't know.

G1 stuff (same disclaimer about memory):

 

They discovered the existence of DNA ('tiny scrolls') by making a sort of high-magnification microscope. This is what led to the creation of augmentation canisters and then the original Geneforge, still the pinnacle of Shaper technology (Rawal's copy is inferior, I believe). Their research was abandoned on Sucia Island for 200 years before it was rediscovered.

 

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If my memory serves me, every game has had some mention of the "tiny scrolls."

 

On the origin of Drakons:

 

My memory is also a bit hazy here, but the "rogue Shaper" (Barzahl) originally Shaped Drakons, who at that point could not Shape. The Takers (a proto-Rebel group) later developed a Geneforge that... turned Drayks into Drakons? gave Drakons the ability to Shape? It's been too long...

 

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Astoria finale:

(I consider this, my "official" finalle. The rest are just out of curiosity. In this one, I did a lot of quest remnants.)

 

 

HEAVY SPOILERS AHEAD! ! !

 

 

The battle

The battle with the drakons was surprisingly easy. The Shapers were for the most part, surprisingly cowardish.

Astoria was keeping up her reserve for the last battle, while her lieutenants were hanging back. When I was playing with Ghaldring, I had Akari Blaze with me, a force of Drakons (not just 3 shapers) and Ghaldring himself was keeping back reinforcements from the Citadel.

With Astoria... I crossed the whole outside and city without seeing a single other shaper, and they were controling creations from afar. :/

 

And in the end? After I had deactivated pylons, killed Drakon guards and all? We all charged Ghaldring and the two drakon leaders. As in Astoria, 3 shapers (shaper, agent, guardian), me and my 7 creations and 8 other creations I had taken over! That was too shapey. :) I charged in battle with 15 creations. -15- We didn't have room to maneuver.

Ghaldring, as expected, died as a hero. Also, as expected he was screaming nonsense like "the time of humans is over! The time of serviles will never come! This is the time of Drakons!"

 

Greta totally, totally betrayed Ghaldring. Not even remorse! Sure, in the other finalle we did a coup de Grace with her, but ... she could have just NOT be there instead of turning her back to him. I learned in the finalle screens that she and the serviles have been planning to betray the Drakons since when Astoria reached out to them. :/

 

The ending:

So... Mekhen, the starting servile, became an envoy. She and Greta have been planning to betray the Drakons for some time. Can't really appreciate them for that, although Ghaldring was more or less clear that he planned to become the boss.

My character, unlike Ghalding's ending becomes a Shaper envoy in the rebels! :)

Alwan, a fanatic but not hypocrite allowed himself to die before singing the armisticle. As such, Rawal dominated the new council. Alas... we can't have them all.

What happened with Akari Blaze? No word about him. In this finalle, he's completely absent.

 

And so, that was my finalle. I am... sad. Bittersweet moment the finishing of this game. I have clocked about 85 hours playing GF5 alone (I was counting).

Sure, I have some finalles to explore yet. Litallia's I am looking forward, the rest not so much. But effectively, I consider now that I finished the game.

 

(and that Ghaldring's finalle was better).

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I agree. Ghaldring's fight is a lot more epic, especially since it takes place through an entirely unknown area. Gazaki-Uss? Old ground, less war feeling. Fight urban warfare through an actual city feels a lot more like an active, real battle.

 

I got the impression that Akhari Blaze died somewhere in the Battle of Gazaki Uss, or likely in the conflict that happens afterward as the Drakon radicals get deal with by the moderates.

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A very plausible explanation since he was a shaping powerhungry leader of the Drakons, the equivalent of Alwan IMO. But I would like to read about it never the less. After all, Akhari knew how to make Unbound... If he escaped, he could shape 5-6 Drayk technicians, make a few cannisters and put up a lab in the blasted lands to suddenly drop a new wave of Unbound on Sucia o Terrestia.

 

 

 

 

About the fight in the city... playing Astoria's finale I was talking to people and traders that had their goals, tried to use me get the ear of the council (some to learn magic, some to get access to more customers etc).

People that I have KILLED during Ghaldring's finale. I would have a hard time doing it if I played the endings in reverse. I.e. if I had met all those quite nice people that were so eager to get in my good side, I would have trouble in the Ghalding ending, since I would try to avoid killing them.

I had trouble already in Taygen's battle to avoid killing his consort when my for-the-fight shaped non-controlled Rotgroths were closing to her house.

(Absorbed a rotgroth before it killed the "naturalist" merchant)

 

 

Also: In neither Astoria nor Rawal ending, Rawal faces judgement for building a geneforge! Sure, all geneforges are destroyed which means his geneforge is discovered too. Taygen was exiled as a dangerous madman as expected. Rawal was WORSE. he was giving out cannisters and had a geneforge.

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Also: In neither Astoria nor Rawal ending, Rawal faces judgement for building a geneforge! Sure, all geneforges are destroyed which means his geneforge is discovered too. Taygen was exiled as a dangerous madman as expected. Rawal was WORSE. he was giving out cannisters and had a geneforge.

 

i don't remember exactly how that ending sequence goes but it seems plausible that rawal saw the writing on the wall and poured his own geneforge down the drain before anyone else could find it

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It's certainly not good, but I highly doubt that it's the worst thing possible. It didn't help the Rebels at all, for instance, nor really even hurt the Shapers. Other things the Shapers did? Astoria was actively treasonous, and Alwan used a highly illegal tactic to secure a fairly large part of the Storm Plains. Taygen was already disliked, and Councillors from Lethia Province and Nodye Coast were probably irrelevant after the war.

 

I'm also confident that Rawal had more blackmail material on all of the Councillors, and not just what we can see in the game. That's his modus operandi.

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It's certainly not good, but I highly doubt that it's the worst thing possible

Thinking of it, it seems it was the worse thing possible according to shaper law and values as it was in GF4 before Shapers got a huge beating.

Shaper law and values that went down the drain after the end of the world since rogues became diplomats, Drakons and barred creations were allowed to exist, and next to the 2 provinces of Terrestia were the 4+3 provinces of Sucia with their cannisters.

The shapers had to endure drakon diplomats in their midst, servile envoys looking down their big noses on them etc.

 

 

So, in the midst or just after such apheaval of the "old shaper way of thinking" which could not accomodate cannisters, drakons, drayks, out-of-guild shapers, rogue creations... having a geneforge without any proof of its use indeed seems less jarring.

Now add that Rawal was a councilor, that he had blackmail material etc and people would be more ready to accept excuses like "Oh, that geneforge? OF COURSE I didn't plan to use it to create my own army of shapers! I made it to study the enemy! OK, 2-3 of my followers were changed so I could study the effects, but their sacrifice was necessary for the war! Cannisters in the foundry? OMG! I have no idea who put them there."

 

 

After all, in real history, the Great War radically changed the way people thought about monarchs, governments etc. The devastation brought by the rebellion was similar I think.

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I didn't say that as a shaper I would ever forgive Rawal. In fact, I would ask for his head since he abandoned the battle and built the most illegal piece of magic tool that is, whatever the reason.

However, it seems logical that building the most illegal piece of magic tool to not be seen as terrible AFTER such a war

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Very, very true observation. She attacked teenagers that couldn't defend themselves, helped to create the Unbound and all..

But I like her very much as an NPC. She more or less is worse than the Drakons. Everything the shapers hate...

 

The reply when I made a question about the task she gave me with Taygen (to UNLEASH the disease) earned her the place in my signature.

 

 

In Alwan's control core B, I found... a creation able to make creations! O_O

Alwan is either unaware that one of his guys did that or he's willing to go FAR further to win the war than I thought.

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OMG! That crazy witch Litalia, mastermind of the rebellion, Trakovite terrorist...

slipped after me into the citadel dome to address the freaking Shaper council! O_O

 

And she prevailed! Trakovites for the win! Shapers will stop researching if we kill Ghaldring.

Or so the shapers promised. Not sure how that will hold even if the shaper council actually embraces that philosophy.

But Litalia prevailed. A lone Trakovite brought an end to centuries of Shaper tradition.

Now, Litalia has to sacrifice her closest ally for over a decade, the drakon they started the rebelion with, for her (new) beliefs. And she's all for it. To compare, when a Drakon spoke badly about Litalia to Ghaldring, Ghaldring threatened to kill the instigator; that's how close the two were.

 

That woman is insane... there's a reason I like her so much and that is it. :)

 

You may say that the rebellion brought an end to shaper traditions but Litalia started the rebellion, so...

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ALWAN ENDING:

(I have lost track how many times I traveled to the accursed spire to destroy Taygen's research. I have learned the path from the cells by heart. By the time I try Taygen's finale I may be able to do it with closed eyes. And the worst part is to repeat the grind that leads to Ghaldring's death...)

 

I went to the citadel. The Serviles there, the ones that with Astoria and Litalia warned me about the attack...

tried to kill me! Including Mekhen that was with me in the very beginning, that I have saved her life etc. Me, that I have broken the fort and was pro-rebel for most of the game!

Me that had 3 tier 5s with me and a Fyora stronger than the average Cryodrayk... Well, I gave them the chance to leave (and live) and they took it.

 

The meeting at the council was somewhat more subdued than I expected. Alwan proclaimed he has found a way to fight the Unbound with ease... if we kill Ghaldring. Riiiiiight.

His way of "Defeating them with ease" seems closer to "we will throw everything at them; if Drakon bosses die they can't make more".

The way they were talking to me and about me makes me a little... pessimistic about my future in the victorious shaper empire.

 

Anyway... to slay Ghaldring! Again. Outside, inside, inner. 2 hours of grinding will follow to see the ending. I hope it's worth it.

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OK, it was worth it :)

Alwan's ending was... complete. Trakovites faded away, Litalia, hunted down and killed. The Rebellion was crushed but as a symbolic gesture of mercy, Alwan allowed them to live out their lives (for a generation) in exile.

Geneforges, seen as the ultimate symbol of corruption of the Shaper Law (I knew it!) were destroyed. Rawal got kicked out of the council and exiled.

 

I killed Greta in the ending battle. It was... disappointing to the extreme. She just cast searer over and over. Not even close to what I expected from her. She was more or less as dangerous as a War Trall.

And no message when she died.

Back in Geneforge 4, when shaper Miranda died and when Alwan died, I got a message. In this, when a councilor (or Ghaldring) died, I got a message. Not so for Greta. Nothing. Just a pathetic fight and death as if she was a war trall. :(

At least, Alwan mentioned her in the last message (hinting to me that she could possibly have been convinced to not fight). He said he had run out of forgiveness for her. (Probably because she killed Miranda)

 

I was glad to see that unlike the shaper ending of GF4, the shapers in their victory didn't become more strict and more absolute.

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